COMFORT FOOD IS US: What might a pro-Trump juror think...

SATURDAY, AUGUST 26, 2023

...in the course of the Georgia trial? Is Donald J. Trump a madman? Here's the way the invaluable Paul Krugman begins his latest column:

KRUGMAN (8/26/23): James J. Jordan was a Mad man—a copywriter who devised advertising catchphrases that were annoying but memorable, including “I’d rather fight than switch” for Tareyton cigarettes and “When you’re having more than one” for Schaefer Beer. In other words, he was very good at his job.

Now he has posthumously become a sloganeer for an actual madman, a former president who tried to overturn an election and may yet destroy U.S. democracy.

Given the existential threat he poses to America as we know it, Donald Trump’s economic ideas aren’t the first thing on most people’s minds. Nonetheless, it was a bit startling to see Trump propose, as he did last week on Fox Business, a 10 percent tariff on all U.S. imports, which he called a “ring around the collar” of the U.S. economy.

Before he gets to the meat of his column, Krugman offers a whimsical aside about a recent turn of phrase by Trump.

He also calls Trump "an actual madman." But what does he mean by that?

For ourselves, it has long been our assumption that Trump is, in fact, in the grip of some severe "mental illness" or "personality disorder." 

We assume that Trump could, in fact, be diagnosable as (colloquially) a "sociopath"—as someone in the grip of "antisocial personality disorder." 

That said, the major organs of our "mainstream press" all agree that such obvious possibilities must never be allowed to play a role in the national discourse. Today, the reader is left to wonder what Krugman actually thinks about the possibility lurking in his highlighted description of Trump.

We mention this because it takes us right to the heart of our discussion of the comfort food we liberals  get served each night on MSNBC. 

The happy talk and the comfort food come at us thick and fast. This has even created a world in which we agree with Ann Coulter on a particular point.

In a recent colloquy with Frank Bruni and Stuart Stevens, Coulter describes Trump as author of "the most disappointing presidency ever." 

Coulter wants DeSantis to be the GOP nominee. She also offers these remarks, in the New York Rimes no less:

COULTER (8/23/23): [F]amous last words, but: I don’t think Trump will be the nominee, but you’d really do the country a solid if you could get Democrats to stop indicting him.

[...]

The only reason Trump will “stay in the news” is that the media keep him there. The weird obsession liberals have with Trump is driving normal people away from the news. Even I, MSNBC’s most loyal viewer, cannot watch it anymore. The same words, same arguments, same info, same topics for over two years now! “We almost lost our democracy!”

Trump is a bore. Please stop covering him. [Coulter's italics.]

We agree with Coulter's comment about MSNBC. The channel is so devoted to selective discussion—to the endless repetition of happy talk and the endless provision of comfort food—that it become extremely hard to watch.

We do try to watch Lawrence O'Donnell. That said, it seems to us that his recent doses of cheerleading represent the type of adamant true belief that could, very imaginably, pave the way to defeat next year.

In recent days, we've floated a question: 

Is it possible that Donad J. Trump could go on trial and escape conviction?

Watching Lawrence or Nicolle, any such notion seems like sheer absurdity. Especially with respect to the Fani Willis indictments in Georgia, Lawrence has cast himself in the role of cheerleader fanboy in a way which surely boosts ratings and sales, but leaves our blue tribe barefoot and clueless, exposed.

[Never] is heard a discouraging word on our blue tribe cable! This strikes us as a very dumb way to approach next year's election.

With respect to the Willis indictments, Lawrence started by praising the document for the sheer brilliance of the writing.

We can't say that we share that assessment. But then, by last Thursday night, Lawrence was cheerleading thusly:

O'DONNELL (8/17/23): Amy Copeland, one struggles to imagine what anyone could seriously say in Donald Trump's defense at [Trump's newly canceled] Monday event, which is why I read just that one page of the [Fani Willis] indictment, which contains thirteen lies told in the famous phone call to Brad Raffensperger, lies that usually get ignored by us in our coverage of the phone call because we're just stuck on the solicitation part of it, which is the "Get me the 11,000 votes." 

But if you are defending Donald Trump against this accusation of this being a criminal enterprise, you have to take on each one of those grotesque lies in those thirteen lies in that phone call.  I just don't see where the Trump defense begins on material like that.

In Lawrence's world, the Willis indictment lists thirteen "lies"—actually, thirteen grotesque lies—allegedly told by Donald J. Trump "in the famous phone call to Raffensperger."

Lawrence said he couldn't see where the Trump defense could even begin with that. Soon after, to his massive credit, Andrew Weissmann offered this:

WEISSMANN (8/17/23): [W]hat you would say here, if you were a defense counsel, is, "You know, I had lawyers telling me this is what happened. I had people doing this data collection, so I was relying on things. So even though I may have been wrong, I didn't kn— I wasn't knowingly lying."

Because remember, you can't— It's not enough that he was just saying it and he was wrong. It has to be with knowledge, intentionally, at the time.

Uh-oh! Because Weissmann was present on the scene that night, we got to hear some very rare words of caution. A prosecutor will have to show that Trump really was lying that day. A prosecutor will have to show that Trump  knew his claims were wrong.

According to Weissmann, a Trump defense would start by saying that Donald J. Trump believed the things he said in that famous phone call. Lawyers had been telling Trump the various things he said in that call—and Trump's attorneys would start by saying that Donald J. Trump believed what those lawyers had said.

Weissmann went on to say that it wouldn't be easy to sustain that line of defense. Our reaction was this:

Long ago and in real time, we listened to the entire audiotape of that entire "famous phone call."  We didn't just listen to the one cherry-picked line about "finding" the needed number of votes.

After we'd listened to Trump for an hour, he had us believing that he really did believe his crazy claims. There's no way to be sure, of course—but that's how it sounded to us.

 Apparently, we aren't alone in this reaction to this "actual madman." Headline included, Devlin and Dawsey offered this at the start of the month in the Washington Post:

Heart of the Trump Jan. 6 indictment: What’s in Trump’s head

Donald Trump’s trial for allegedly conspiring to overturn the results of the 2020 election may hinge on a long-debated aspect of the former president’s mind-set: How much, or if, he believes his own false claims.

The 45-page indictment filed Tuesday lays out the myriad ways Trump allegedly lied about mass voter fraud and tried to use those claims to get state, local and federal officials to change results to declare him the winner.

Central to special counsel Jack Smith’s case is the accusation that Trump knew his claims were lies. Evidence of a defendant’s intent is often critical to criminal prosecutions, and it may be the most crucial element of Smith’s case against Trump.

“These claims were false, and the Defendant knew they were false,” the indictment’s first page declares, staking out the boundaries of what will probably be a high-stakes legal battlefield inside Trump’s brain.

“I think the entire indictment really turns on the question of Trump’s intent,” said Robert Kelner, a veteran D.C. lawyer. “Arguably, there isn’t any smoking-gun evidence in the indictment regarding intent, though there is certainly circumstantial evidence. At the heart of the case is really a metaphysical question of whether it’s even possible for Donald Trump to believe that he lost the election, or lost anything else, for that matter.”

[...]

Within hours of the indictment’s unsealing, Trump’s legal team signaled that his defense will be based in part on the argument that he genuinely believed the election was stolen and rejected arguments made by those who tried to convince him otherwise.

“I would like them to try to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump believed that these allegations were false,” Trump lawyer John Lauro told Fox News.

Multiple witnesses have said they were asked by prosecutors in front of the grand jury if they heard Trump say he lost—and what evidence he was shown about the election, said people familiar with the questioning, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss closed proceedings.

Some of the witnesses were asked about particular pieces of evidence—including reports from state officials and reports commissioned by the campaign—and whether those reports were shown to Trump or his advisers, including Rudy Giuliani, a key figure in that time period who is identified only as “Co-Conspirator 1” in the indictment.

At least one witness testified that Trump was provided extensive evidence showing the election was not stolen, but Trump never conceded the point, the people said.

“Even in private, he’d argue and say that it was,” one Trump adviser said Wednesday. “You could give him 100 reasons why it wasn’t stolen, and he’d come up with something else. It was like playing whack-a-mole.”

[...]

People close to Trump insist that, to this day, he believes the voter fraud claims.

In conversations with eight current and former advisers on Wednesday, including some who have soured on Trump, none said they heard him privately contradict his claims that the election was stolen in the months after the election. All eight of them, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations, said they believed at the time, and still do, that Trump had convinced himself that he won.

“He is going to keep saying the election was rigged and stolen because he believes it,” one adviser said. “They are never going to get him to say he was lying, because he still believes it.”

Is Donald J. Trump crazy enough—is he enough of an "actual madman"—to believe his unsupported claims about the 2020 elections? We have no idea.

Our cable stars repeat a tiny set of unconvincing claims in which it's said that Trump admitted defeat at various points. In the ancient jargon of the press corps, we'd say that these flimsy examples are "close enough for tribal cable news work."

That said, many observers have suggested that he actually is crazy enough to believe his own twaddle. On August 6, Michael Wolff offered this in the New York Times:

WOLFF (8/6/23): His yearslong denial of the 2020 election may be an elaborate fraud, a grifter’s denial of the obvious truth, as prosecutors maintain, but if so, he really hasn’t broken character the entire time. I’ve had my share of exposure to his fantastic math over the years—so did almost everyone around him at Mar-a-Lago after the election—and I don’t know anyone who didn’t walk away from those conversations at least a little shaken by his absolute certainty that the election really was stolen from him.

Declaring that Trump is "an actual madman" may not be the way to a pro-Trump juror's heart. But there are a million problems with the childish ways our "cable news" servants serve us our nightly comfort food, and there are a million ways that a pro-Trump juror might differ from Lawrence's fanboy reactions to the endlessly complicated Willis indictments.

Our blue tribe culture has become so childish and dumb that we've even created a world in which Ann Coulter gets to be right. 

The children go on TV each night and serve us our happy talk and our comfort food. Except for the childishness of our own tribe, the news product they are offering has become almost wholly unwatchable. 

Meanwhile, Biden and Trump are tied in the polls. We're rarely asked to wonder about what that could possibly mean.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but our tribe is locked in a silo. [Never] is heard a discouraging word as ratings and profits and salaries go up while we wander about in a haze.

There are a million ways a pro-Trump juror may not buy the Willis indictments. It only takes one dissenter, in a twelve-member jury, to deny conviction.

Jack Smith faces a similar task. One lone dissenting juror could mean that Trump escapes conviction.

Cheerleader O'Donnell can't seem to imagine this possible problem. That said, a trial could end without a conviction.

Where would things go from there?


123 comments:

  1. Calling those you disagree with "children" and calling their ideas happy talk and comfort food, is not an actual argument against them.

    Somerby seems to think that if he calls Trump a sociopath that it proves he believes his own statements because he has mental health issues. But the labeling works the opposite way. Sociopaths are very good at telling believable lies, at conning people by appearing sincere when they are not. They know they are lying and they are doing it to serve their own self-interest without regard for law or the harm done to others. That is part of what makes a sociopath a sociopath. Delusions are not part of the definition of that personality disorder. If Somerby wants to convince us that Trump believes his own statements, calling him a sociopath does not help but suggests the opposite, that Trump knows he is lying and is doing it for personal gain. Nor is being a sociopath the kind of label that will get Trump excused from responsibility for his actions. Most criminals in jail for crimes are sociopaths.

    Nor does calling Trump a Madman and then showing that he uses clever advertising slogans when he talks convince anyone that he is actually mad in a psychiatric way. The term Madmen to refer to advertising executives is a clever play on words to describe the chaotic lives and nature of that business, drawing on the allusion to crazy behavior, but it doesn't go the other direction, because the people who write advertising copy are not mentally ill or insane. Showing that Trump has borrowed advertising terms doesn't provide any proof of Trump's insanity, because advertising is creative but not crazy.

    Prosecutors do not have to prove that Trump didn't believe what he was saying -- they only have to prove that he broke the law, as specified in the indictment. This is another strawman that Somerby has created to give people an out if they want to continue supporting Trump. This is the way Somerby defends Trump, which is his purpose for writing his essays these days.

    Somerby pretends he is being open-minded as he agrees with Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson and David Brooks (and previously Andrew Sullivan), but he is mainly just being more open about his political orientation, shedding his "liberal" persona since we are on to him and it has become increasingly unconvincing.

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    1. That's why RFK is macroeconomically focusing on the American people.

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    2. 2:06 excellent comment.

      2:33 RFK jr would likely have gained support, not lost support, as is the case, if he had not turned out to be a neoliberal espousing right wing conspiracy theories, tinged with racism. Worse, for those interested in macroeconomics, it’s hard to beat Biden, as his “Bidenomics” has macroeconomically surged.

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    3. What does that mean?

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    4. I’m not sure what it means, it suggests some kind of supernatural occurrence.

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    5. I know, but something beyond merely printing and distributing free money.

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    6. 2:06,

      "Prosecutors do not have to prove that Trump didn't believe what he was saying -- they only have to prove that he broke the law, as specified in the indictment. This is another strawman Somerby has created to give people an out if they want to continue supporting Trump."

      Somerby nowhere makes the claim you attribute to him, but instead quotes career prosecutor Weissman, who says:

      "It's not enough that he (Trump) was just saying it and he was wrong. It has to be with knowledge, intentionally, at the time."

      So if Somerby is creating a strawman, Weissman is right next to him, straw in hand.

      But of course neither Somerby nor Weissman is saying Trump should get off, only pointing out that it's possible.

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    7. They can prove Trump knew he lost and they can prove he said he won, which satisfies Weissman’s conditions. Somerby is not saying the same as Weissman. Somerby is saying Trump is crazy and believes he won. That is inconsistent with plotting a coup. You don’t plot to overturn an election you believe you won. You make plans for your 2nd term and don’t pack your things to move. If you are truly delusional. Instead Trump schemed to overturn Biden’s win.

      Somerby has repeatedly said that Trump should be pitied not prosecuted. Not here but in previous posts.

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    8. We should try to understand the other side.

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    9. 3:50,

      You raise an interesting point and highlight why Bob should never apply the terms 'madman' or 'insane' to Trump because he's clearly not either. Bob would be better off sticking to 'sociopath', which carries no implications of an insanity defense.

      But no, Bob has never said Trump should be pitied. And Bob has decried, not a potential Trump prosecution, but what he sees as the left's excessive focus on a potential prosecution.

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    10. “Bob has never said Trump should be pitied”

      Hector, Hector, oh Hector. The search function is your friend:

      “Dr. Bandy X. Lee and her gaggle of shrinks might as well have published their book about Trump on Mars or Uranus. Amusing headline to the side, the thought that Trump may be some serious version of mentally ill simply doesn't exist in this piece at Slate.
      To our eye and ear, the commander has seemed deeply disordered for some time. (We recommend that such people be pitied.)”

      (SOCIOPATHY AND ITS DISCONTENTS: The dangerous limits of human discernment!

      WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2020

      http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2020/10/sociopathy-and-its-discontents_7.html?m=1)

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    11. When Hector is accurate on a claim, the sun will not rise that day.

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    12. Hector is trying to king Solomon the baby, but the facts don't give him much to work with.

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    13. Also Hector, your comments about Weissman are bullshit, as I clarify down the thread....

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    14. The prosecutions may backfire.

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    15. Somebody I know may be so pleasantly surprise.

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    16. Increasingly, Trump regrets doing it.

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    17. “ The prosecutions may backfire.”

      The prosecutions are not politically motivated. If they fail to secure a conviction, that will be unfortunate, but it won’t be a “backfire.” It will be an injustice. These things happen.

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    18. 3:16 it means that after enduring the Trump years where money flowed from the working class to the corporate class, Biden has reversed that course, to a moderate degree.

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    19. There's a chance they could be viewed as a backfire. Or as have backfired. Or there's a chance the prosecutios could be viewed as an unfortunate injustice. We are all right there with you on that one.

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    20. Somerby struggles with simple concepts in a way that leads him to these inane paradoxes: possibility outweighing probability; Trump is mentally compromised but also a smart strategist; MSNBC is so unwatchable they are losing viewers yet they are also impactful enough to be responsible for Trump’s success; mind reading is impossible yet how can juries reach verdicts.

      On and on Somerby plods, with his brain dead notions in tow.

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    21. Macroeconomically, yes. But Trump is ... think about an iceberg and Trump the part underneath and MSNBC is on top, what we see from the boat.

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    22. The Titanic was a folly of the wealthy, so it would be more like, MSNBC is the top of the iceberg, the part underneath is the electorate (or Jack Smith/Fani Willis), and Trump is the Titanic.

      Developing good analogies is a skill only some possess, there’s no shame in not having that skill, which is the circumstance of 9:16.

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    23. The Titanic is perfect, a perfect analogy because it's a group of people ignoring the potential pitfalls until they happen. Mass delusions or groupthink.

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    24. mh,

      I thank you for your correction, and apologize to you and all my fans in the commentariat community.

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    25. Thank you, I did my best to correct the original incoherent analogy into something somewhat meaningful.

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    26. Reportedly, Melania sleeps in a different bedroom due to Trump’s “backfires”.

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    27. Trump doesn't sleep and is up during the night using social media, calling people, and doing other things. Of course she wouldn't be able to sleep well in the same room with him. Not sleeping is not a good thing for one's health and Trump isn't healthy in other ways either (diet, exercise, stress).

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    28. It is well known that Trump sleeps 4 hours a night, the sleep being limited directly to his “backfires”.

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  2. There were a million ways a pro-Trump juror could have hung the E.Jean Carroll trial too, but that didn't happen. Statistically, the jury selection process is highly unlikely to seat someone who is so fanatical about Trump that they will not listen to evidence and will not participate in deliberations as instructed by the judge. For one thing, fanatics are about 30% of Republicans in general. But Republicans are 28% of the electorate. That means a Trump voter has an 8.4% chance of being selected from the jury pool before voir dire. After answering the questions of the judge and attorneys (on both sides), they will be unlikely to survive the process if they let their bias show. That is about as possible for enthusiastic Trump supporters as it is for Trump to keep his mouth shut, since they do not know what they look like to non-Trump supporters and will likely be proud of their opinions, not willing to hide them. They will be tossed off the jury by the judge or by the prosecution in favor of people who are less opinionated, more willing to consider Trump's possibility of guilt. After selection, they would have to be impervious to persuasion, which is not true for most people, to withstand peer pressure and the arguments of other jurors as they consider the evidence.

    During jury deliberations, a juror with Somerby's odd ideas might say that Trump should be let off because he believed his own lies. The other jurors will then explain the criteria for the crime (as the judge will do before they start deliberating) and tell him that he is not allowed to apply his own criteria for guilt. If he insists on using his own idea that Trump believes his own lies, then the jurors will complain to the judge and Somerby would be replaced by an alternate juror. You must follow the guidelines of the judge about the elements needed to prove in order to convict or acquit, not use your own made-up ones, as Somerby is doing today.

    That's why the "possibility" of a hung jury is more remote than Somerby believes. The dissenter would have to dissent about the evidence presented, not the definition of the crime, which will be clearly spelled out for the jury. So, there are not a million ways to "not buy" the charges. The jury will be limited to consideration of what is presented by the two sides and the definition of the crime according to law. That constrains what jurors are permitted to use in making their decisions. A hold out juror will have to argue and support his divergent view to the other jurors and any bias will become clear to the rest of the jury. That is how juries are able to resolve differences of opinion and reach a verdict. That means Trump is unlikely to escape conviction if the prosecution puts on a strong enough case. I have confidence Willis and her staff can do that. Somerby lacks faith in the abilities of black women, so he perhaps think anything goes if a Trump-supporting jury member gets selected. It is perhaps a matter of faith in the justice system that causes Somerby to think some miracle will happen that will let Trump escape all of the consequences of his actions, across four criminal trials and 91 counts against him. Whatever someone feels about Trump, his actions have been clear. I doubt there will be any wiggle room for him in any of his trials. He will be found guilty on some of the charges and there will be a conviction. He is just too guilty to escape justice.

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    1. Well said.

      Somerby scoured the media and could only find a few instances of poor legal analysis, and then uncritically hyped those; this is an ineffective method for persuasion on Somerby’s part.

      The DC trial, just based on history and the jury pool, is pretty much a lock. Sentencing will be interesting.

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    2. The Paul Manafort case may be instructive: they had him dead to rights on everything, but one pro Trump juror split the difference and let him slide on some of the counts. So it could happen. But one juror also mentioned that She was pro Trump, and wanted to let Manafort off, but the evidence was right there. Let's hope Bob doesn't get on the jury.

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    3. He gave internal polling data to a known spy.

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    4. Let’s clarify why the Manafort trial is, or is not, instructive.

      Manafort was tried in VA, a different jury pool than in DC, or even Atlanta, yet even so, he was found guilty on 8 of 18 charges and sentenced to jail, for multiple years. Oof.

      Manafort’ s second trial was in DC, and as jury selection started, he saw the writing on the wall and took a plea deal which included pleading guilty to those remaining 10 charges from the VA trial.

      Either way you cut it, it looks bad for Trump. A guilty verdict in DC is a lock.

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    5. I am working from memory, but I believe in the Manafort case, but for one Juror, it would have been 18 outa 18.

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    6. That one VA juror voted to convict Manafort on 8 charges, which sent him to jail for years.

      The other charges he pled guilty to after seeing the jury in DC, and thus the futility of a trial.

      So the Manafort case only reinforces that Trump is in deep trouble in all his cases, and specifically in DC, he is certain to be found guilty.

      The sentencing of Trump will be the interesting part.

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    7. Anonymous @ 8.26: "A guilty verdict in DC is a lock."

      It's never a lock when you go to trial...

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  3. Trump's various despicable actions after the election were efforts to delay a final decision. Delay could only help Trump if it resulted in audits and recounts that showed he actually won. That's one reason why I believe that Trump sincerely believed that the election had been stolen from him. If the election were proper, then delay would not help Trump.

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    1. David, there were already audits and recounts and none of them showed any irregularities sufficient to change the election results. Even now, after all of this time, there is no evidence supporting Trump's claims. Trump was told repeatedly that there was no evidence the election was stolen. The certification went forward BECAUSE there was no evidence that there was anything wrong with the results.

      You are saying that Trump wanted to delay in order to find evidence, but there were already 63 court decisions showing no evidence to support such a delay. You don't create fake elector lists because you believe you won the election. You create them to steal an election you know you have lost.

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    2. 2:27 your point is well taken…by reasonable people.

      This character “David in Cal”, is not persuaded by logic or rationality; worse, they are empowered by responses to their nonsensical comments, which are, by design, meant to trigger, meant to “make liberal lives miserable”.

      This character is alienated, lonely and starved for attention, but by responding we are not easing their pain; we are enabling their worst, most toxic, traits.

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    3. Somerby has convinced exactly zero of his right wing fans that Trump is insane.

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    4. "Trump's various despicable actions after the election were efforts to delay a final decision."

      A final decision had been made Dec. 14, when the electoral college votes were cast. Trump's actions after 12/14 were not to delay but to overturn.

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  4. "That said, a trial could end without a conviction.

    Where would things go from there?"

    People are depending on the voters not to reelect Trump. It is highly unlikely the election will be as close as it was in 2020, if Trump and Biden run again. Trump is going to lose the election because he has less support now and greater liabilities, including greater anger against Republican antics and a strong performance by Biden in office. Trump would have lost even if there were no indictments against him, so a hung jury is not going to make any difference at all.

    It will not matter.

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  5. A Trump supporting juror who wishes despite the evidence to acquit Trump is not going to view Trump as a “madman.”

    If, after being told over and over again of the falseness of his beliefs, Trump still refused to change his belief, that might indicate “insanity” to a reasonable person, but he is not pleading that.

    How is the jury supposed to figure out what Trump “truly” believed if he doesn’t take the stand and state it under oath? I would be surprised if he did. If he does take the stand, can you imagine the prosecution’s questioning of him?

    Lastly, what kind of justice system would we have if, in the absence of a finding of mental incompetence, a defendant could be exonerated simply for believing what he did was ok? I believed all of that money in the bank was mine, so my planning of a robbery was ok. I truly believed my neighbor raped my wife, so I killed him justifiably.

    Trump’s actions designed to overturn the election are on trial here, and not his belief that the election was stolen.

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  6. "If, after being told over and over again of the falseness of his beliefs, Trump still refused to change his belief, that might indicate “insanity” to a reasonable person..."

    Not a persuasive argument IMO, because

    1. We don't know whether other people were telling Trump that the election WAS stolen. How many people told Trump that the election was not stolen. How many told him that it it wasn't?

    2. All the people giving their opinions didn't really know. Yes, there was no evidence of massive fraud. Yes, it was reasonable to believe that the election wasn't stolen. Yes, the margin was very large. OTOH at that moment, few if any audits had been conducted. The people telling Trump that the election wasn't stolen didn't know any more than he did.

    3. It's easy to find examples where a person could reasonably disagree with a widespread opinion. E.g., most people believe in God, but it's not insane to be an atheist. Most people believe that Trump said that Nazis were "fine people", even though the transcript shows that he said the opposite. At one point in time, most people would have assured us that that Covid didn't come from a lab leak, yet, later facts show that the lab leak was at least plausible, if not even likely.

    BTW, IMO a stronger argument that Trump was insane was that even if the election had been stolen, there was no way to prove it. Trump should have realized that he had no choice but to accept the results.

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    1. Most people believe Republican voters care about nothing but bigotry and white supremacy, but liars in the media say this isn' true.
      It's not a sign of insanity. It's lying.

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    2. "On the evening of October 31, 2020, Steve Bannon told a group of associates that President Donald Trump had a plan to declare victory on election night—even if he was losing. Trump knew that the slow counting of Democratic-leaning mail-in ballots meant the returns would show early leads for him in key states. His “strategy” was to use this fact to assert that he had won, while claiming that the inevitable shifts in vote totals toward Joe Biden must be the result of fraud, Bannon explained."

      https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/07/leaked-audio-steve-bannon-trump-2020-election-declare-victory/

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    3. WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump falsely claimed early Wednesday that he had won the presidential election, even though millions of legitimate votes had yet to be counted and a half-dozen battleground states were still not called.

      “A very sad group of people is trying to disenfranchise [people who voted for me] and we won’t stand for this,” Trump told supporters in the White House shortly before 2:30 a.m.

      More than an hour earlier, Democrat Joe Biden told supporters he’s confident about winning the presidential election and urged Americans to be patient.

      In his East Wing comments, Trump said: “We were getting ready for a big celebration. We were winning everything, and all of a sudden it was just called off.”

      “We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court, we want all voting to stop,” Trump continued more than an hour after the final U.S. polls closed in Alaska. “We don’t want them to find any ballots at 4 o’clock in the morning and add them to the list.”

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    4. “How many people told Trump that the election was stolen. How many told him that it wasn't?”

      That it wasn’t stolen:
      DOJ Election unit lawyers, White Counsel lawyers, Trump campaign lawyers, State and local election officials, State investigators, governors, legislators, various judges.

      That it was stolen:
      the Pillow Guy; Rudy (‘I Didn’t Have Time to Vet the Accusations’) Giuliani and Sidney (I’m Just Nuts for Trump) Powell. And QANON's own Mike Flynn.

      What's a truth-seeker like Trump to believe?

      Delete
    5. Belief in a god is based on faith, not evidence, so it’s not an apt analogy.

      From the transcript, Trump said of the incident in Charlottesville that there was “blame on both sides” and of the Nazis “you also had people that were very fine people”. So Trump did say that, not the opposite.

      The conspiracy theory that covid was a lab leak has zero evidence to support it, it is pure conjecture, which is why it is deemed by the experts as most likely not to have occurred.

      I’ll be around if you need to be explained why the sky looks blue.

      Delete
    6. Trump’s cases are not based on whether be believed election fraud to have occurred, they are based on Trump’s own behavior of engaging in election fraud himself.

      Delete
  7. Well, let's start with David... who is not persuaded the full obscenity of his Trump votes needs to be answered for. If the prosecution can show what every rational person can clearly see, that Trump ignored all people with knowledge of the election who were willing to act in good faith and found a small collection of political extremists also bent on throwing the election at any cost, who saw it as "being tough" then silly argument number one goes out the window. We also have Trump's too little mentioned pattern of NEVER accepting results that show him the loser (in any contest he has enter, all of which he has lost (except 2016 with EC, which he also lied about at taxpayer's expense.) Then we have the simple principle that such beliefs do not excuse lawbreaking, i.e., I think that money in the bank is mine, and I'm taking it.
    The overwhelming majority of people in jail for serious crimes in prison are likely to have one mental disorder or another, it is not a get out of jail free card.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wonder whether the judge will allow the defense to introduce information about Stacey Abrams's denial of her GA Gubernatorial election defeat. I think her behavior would a point in favor of Trump sincerely believing that his election ha been stolen. It also rebuts Bob's idea that Trump would have to be insane to believe that his election was stolen.

      Delete
    2. As has been pointed out ad nauseam, Abram's and other challenged the results in the legal fashion, just like Trump did. Then She went back to work trying to win elections, not attempting to intimidate Govs, smearing pol workers, concocting plots using fake electors, lying to the public about results, and inciting riots (not charged, but he may end up paying big damages in civil court). The problematic "belief" here, David is your own. But you actually are not entitled to rights an African American woman does not get.

      Delete
    3. 7:06 PM-
      No.
      I don't think it would even if it were relevant since her behavior didn't result in treason.
      Trump can be both insane and a pathological liar.

      Delete
    4. Think about Hunter and Barisma in this context.

      The money that was exchanged between them.

      Delete
    5. Being paid for work is a basic concept.

      Delete
    6. One document suggests that Hunter did coke with Maximilian Schell in 1978 in the bathroom at the state legislature.

      Delete
    7. Hunter was 8 in 1978, us kids all did coke back then, it was only a quarter.

      Delete
    8. That makes it all the more tragic.

      Delete
    9. Supposedly some kids died combining coke with pop rocks. I tried it once but survived, I think because I went swimming right after instead of waiting two hours.

      Delete
  8. So, onto Crooked Somerby:
    Weissman was asked what he thought Trump's best defense was and he answered. Bob fails to mention he knows Weissman does not think it's a GOOD defense, or thiinks it is likely to be successful. Anyone who watches the show for a bit knows this is false. Most of the quite solid, informed opinions on MSNBC Bob can't answer and simply childishly ignores ( TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, you bad people just want to send others to JAIL!!!)
    Bob tries to create the impression Trump is all MSNBC covers, this is false. And Bob tries to create the impression there has been no news on Trump for the last two years. These are stories everyone is covering.
    Somerby tries to make Trump the creation of his critics, who won't say that he has mental problems. But of course that has been suggested all the time, just not as an argument for exoneration. Even the humorous book "Commander and Cheat" about Trump's golfing, is basically the chronicle of an obvious nutcase, but Rick Reilly includes the way Trump's pathology is encouraged by his bought and paid for fan base(not always) in the context of Trump making a farce out of basic sportsmanship.
    And it's worth noting from time to time: Before Trump, Bob found political writers doing armchair psychoanalysis the nadir of hackery.
    Bob's gal pal Ann Coulter now claims Trump is "the most disappointing President ever." Let's note She threw W under the bus too. But really, has there ever been a more PREDICTABLE Presidency than Trump's?
    This is critical: Bob now loves to jeer about the terrible results of Trump getting off with the help of the one juror of his dreams. Much crazier things have happened. Yet, in his epic intellectual dishonesty, he has never considered that there might be a downside to his dream of just letting Trump go. Even as, of course, Trump's brazen criminality can easily be argued as the result of earlier examples of "looking forward" on Presidential misconduct.
    We have a long haul before us, but until Bob address this issue NOTHING Crooked Somerby has to say about this subject should be taken seriously. Stupidity is no longer a decent excuse for this rubbish anymore, Crooked Somerby is a dishonest person.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Trump was apparently determined to remain president because he feared prosecution once he was no longer president, including for the crimes Mueller investigation and tax evasion:

    "“Special counsel Robert Mueller said Wednesday that charging President Donald Trump with a crime was ‘not an option’ because of federal rules, but he used his first public remarks on the Russia investigation to emphasize that he did not exonerate the president. ‘If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so,’ Mueller declared…Mueller made clear that his team never considered indicting Trump because the Justice Department prohibits the prosecution of a sitting president.” (emphasis mine) Mueller declares his Russia report did not exonerate Trump apnews.com/…"

    ReplyDelete
  10. Another day, another Fox lie.

    “Inside the Marine Corps' Fight with Fox News over a False Gold Star Family Story”

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/23/inside-marine-corps-fight-fox-news-over-false-gold-star-family-story.html

    From the story:

    “The Marine Corps worked behind the scenes last month in an attempt to convince Fox News to retract its false story claiming a Gold Star family was forced to pay $60,000 to ship the remains of a Marine killed in Afghanistan, according to emails obtained by Military.com.”

    ReplyDelete
  11. “EXCLUSIVE: Ivanka Trump is seen inspecting her new Miami mansion with Jared Kushner after dad Donald shared his historic mugshot”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12448593/amp/ivanka-trump-jared-miami-mansion-donald-mugshot.html

    People are saying that this is the house that Mohammed bin Salman built.

    But I see you were discussing Hunter Biden?

    ReplyDelete
  12. There were presumably pro-Trump jurors on the grand jury that recommeded the indictments, right? Somehow they were convinced by the evidence, despite being Trump supporters.

    ReplyDelete
  13. At some point I think he was getting 50,000 a month.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's only $600,000 per year. That's what people make for the kind of work that Hunter Biden was doing (financal executve). My daughter makes that much in medicine.

      Is it a crime to be paid for your work?

      "Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump reported between $172 million and $640 million in outside income while working in the White House, according to an analysis of financial disclosures by CREW."

      Delete
    2. Is it a crime to be paid for your work? No.

      Does it look sleazy as hell to be paid for being the Vice-President's son? Heck yeah.

      Delete
    3. It was probably a bribe to get the vice president to act on their behalf.

      Delete
    4. If the Hunter card looks sleazy to you Hector, by all means, keep on playing it. As long as taxpayers are being charged for what was really the political misuse of the DOJ ( it doesn’t seem to matter to you Trump was quite open about this) yet it appears HB is being punished beyond what a typical person would for his bad behavior, and he’s likely to win on appeal or serve no time.

      Delete
    5. Biden's got to regret lying about knowledge of these deals.

      Delete
    6. Biden never lied about knowledge of deals.

      It’s not sleazy for the child of a politician to earn money.

      It is sleazy to make false accusations and misleading narratives.

      Delete
    7. President Biden claimed no one in his family received money from China but I think at this point it's been millions that have been discovered to have been deposited by China into their accounts.

      Delete
    8. From CNN Fact Check

      "Did former Vice President Joe Biden receive $1.5 billion from China?
      CLAIM
      Trump conflated his accusations against former Vice President Joe Biden and son Hunter Biden -- railing against Hunter Biden's business dealings, then saying that Joe Biden "takes a billion-five" from China and "he goes on and he allows China to rip us off." He added, "So the Bidens got rich while America got robbed."

      CONCLUSION
      There is no evidence Joe Biden has received large sums of money from China or has otherwise gained wealth as a result of his son's business dealings abroad.

      EVIDENCE
      Trump has previously made the "billion-five" accusation against Hunter Biden. While a conservative author has used this figure, it has not been proven. A lawyer for Hunter Biden, George Mesires, says the investment company in which Hunter Biden has an equity stake was capitalized with a total of about $4.2 million at today's exchange rates, "not $1.5 billion." Even this investment was not a direct payment to Hunter Biden; Hunter Biden holds a 10% stake in the firm, Mesires says, and has not made a profit to date."

      Delete
    9. 5:22 this is false.

      As a candidate for president, Biden accurately said that that Hunter did not make money from China when he was VP. This is a true and accurate statement.

      Hunter did work for and earn money from Chinese companies, but this was after Biden was VP, and before he was the president; therefore what Biden said was true and accurate.

      Furthermore, were Hunter to have worked for and earned money from Chinese companies, whether Biden was VP or POTUS, it would neither be illegal or corrupt.

      Delete
  14. Many liberals thought Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman would be easily convicted. Instead they were easily acquitted. Liberals had these mistaken beliefs because their media misled them.

    IMO Trump's situation in GA is parallel. I think liberals will be surprised when Trump is easily acquitted. (BTW IMO the charges relating to Trump's possession of classified data are a lot stronger.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't recall this sense of certainty that you claim liberals had. We were horrifed by their crimes and thought they should have been convicted, but I don't recall the predictions. You say they were "easily" acquitted. I remember a biased judge.

      Zimmerman had an all-woman 6-person jury. One of the jurors said:

      "July 25, 2013— -- The only minority on the all-female jury that voted to acquit George Zimmerman said today that Zimmerman "got away with murder" for killing Trayvon Martin and feels she owes an apology Martin's parents.

      "You can't put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty," said the woman who was identified only as Juror B29 during the trial. "But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."

      She said the jury was following Florida law and the evidence, she said, did not prove murder."

      That doesn't suggest that the verdict was easy. The juror said the prosecution didn't make enough of a case. This is the quandary that Trump jurors will find themselves in. They must follow the evidence too, so the outcome depends on how good a job the prosecution does. I suspect that Willis and her staff will be more motivated than the prosecution in either of the other two cases. Trump is not going to be able to claim self defense.

      Delete
    2. Worse, in the Zimmerman case, that juror misunderstood the Florida law, even according to the Florida Republican lawmakers that created and passed the law. The case hinged on whether Zimmerman REASONABLY feared for his imminent death or great bodily harm, from an objective standard, which the defense failed to establish.

      The juror’s later regret was justified, as Zimmerman proudly auctioned off his gun that murdered the Black teen, and referred to himself as an “army of one”.

      Delete
    3. Yes, on the contrary people on the left tend to be cynical and pessimistic about the system (including the Courts) giving them a fair shake.

      Delete
    4. Leftists tend to realistic, not cynical or pessimistic.

      Criticisms of systems and institutions from the Left are based on evidence.

      Leftists tend to be criticized for being hopeful or idealistic, imaging an egalitarian based society.

      The Right view humans as inherently evil, so they tend to be nihilistic, focusing more on hierarchy and dominance.

      Delete
    5. "The case hinged on whether Zimmerman REASONABLY feared for his imminent death or great bodily harm, from an objective standard, which the defense failed to establish."

      Close, but I think you have the burden of proof reversed. I the prosecution needed to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that

      Delete
    6. ...beyond a reasonable doubt that the Zimmerman did NOT reasonably fear imminent death or great bodily harm. That's a very tough burden for the prosecution.

      (Sorry for the premature enter-aculation)

      Delete
    7. Well then David, it’s a good thing the jury was able to weigh the assertions of Zimmerman against Trayvon’s…oops, he was dead. Advantage Zimmerman.

      Delete
    8. The key word is “reasonably”, which in Zimmerman’s case was not a tough burden.

      It was clear, beyond a reasonable doubt, from the evidence provided, that Zimmerman did not reasonably fear imminent death or great bodily harm. (It’s instructive to note that Somerby and right wingers always misrepresent the evidence, making false claims about injuries and poundings that in fact were never testified to.)

      The trial was televised and polls show an overwhelming majority thought he was guilty.

      He was only found not guilty due to the particular jury he had, which included jurors bullying another juror - that was not determinative in and of itself, but demonstrates the character of the jury.

      Broadly speaking, Zimmerman’s defenders are partisans; they are right wingers, who are unable to process fear in a reasonable manner.

      However, it’s an objective standard, therefore, reasonably, rationality, logically, and even morally, Zimmerman was guilty, made all the more clear by his repulsive actions after the trial.

      Delete
    9. mh - excellent point.

      It's useless but interesting to speculate on what would have happened if Trayvon Martin had been injured but not killed by Zimmerman's gunshot. Would Zimmerman have been tried and convicted of assault? Would Martin have been have been tried and convicted of assault? Would neither of them have been charged?

      Delete
    10. No, David, you have it ass backwards again.
      Zimmerman committed murder. It is not automatically assumed he did so because he "REASONABLY feared for his imminent death or great bodily harm, from an objective standard". That was his chosen defense.

      You think he walked into the courtroom from day one and enjoyed the presumption of his defense argument before he even said a word? If that were true the case could never have been brought. Do you grant every murder defendant that presumption, or does it only apply to murderers who kill young black kids with no witnesses?

      Delete
  15. Trump refused to “surrender” to those seeking to prosecute his crimes by mispronouncing Fani Willis’ name in a bullying manner and then dog whistled that she is “getting killed”, and calling them “savage animals”.

    Trump seems to have a firmer grasp on the likelihood of his convictions than his fan base, and is behaving in accordance with his personality traits to the circumstance.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised nor particularly disappointed. Not surprised because there a rubes who declare their intent to ardently support Trump for president in 2024 without having been presented with the facts that resulted in the indictments. They are hapless robots. Not as disappointed as might be conjectured by these same rubes because Trump will be running, thoroughly tarnished by litigation exposing his unAmerican activities, and with large blocks of the electorate rejecting his agenda and person. That includes women who reject the republican agenda of dictating their rights to them, young people who believe in global warming and have had enough of republican thoughts and prayers while they argue for the rights of 18 year olds to purchase assault weapons, and independents and the well educated who rejected him soundly last time with time with less cause than they will in 2024.

    ReplyDelete
  17. In 2019, President Biden repeatedly said he had “never discussed” and had “never spoken to” Hunter Biden about his business dealings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This was investigated and found to be accurate, Biden did not discuss such things. You are correct.

      Delete
  18. As someone earlier pointed out, the Manafort case is instructive because even though he had a Trump supporter on the jury, they still voted to convict him and send him to prison.

    It’s well studied that with Black victims and/or White defendants, particularly related to circumstances that jurors can relate to such as common crimes or violent crimes, conviction rates are lower. A White juror can imagine themselves being fearful of a Black person, and would not want to get convicted for defending themselves.

    Trump’s crimes are of corruption, unique to Trump’s circumstances; jurors won’t relate these crimes to their own personal lives, so they are more likely to be open to voting to convict.

    Jury pools make a significant difference, in Atlanta and DC, Trump is likely to have an unfriendly jury. In Florida, Trump May have a friendlier jury; however, the Florida case is so straightforward, and with Trump allies turning against him, conviction is likely there as well.

    I think no one will be surprised that Trump will get multiple convictions, because Trump supporters are not dumb, they are just wounded people with warped values that impact their integrity and morality.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hunter receive the millions from China and Ukraine, but President Biden had no knowledge whatsoever of these business dealings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hunter worked for Chinese and Ukrainian companies, and they did pay him for that work, and President Biden had no knowledge of Hunter’s business dealings. In total, Hunter earned, from work he did, about $4.5 million. You are correct.

      Had Hunter been corrupt like the Trump Crime Family, he could have easily earned billions from China, Saudi Arabia, etc. like they did; however, this is not the circumstance with the Bidens, who did not engage in illegality or corruption.

      Delete
    2. Hunter's work in Ukraine and China never came up in discussions with his dad? That doesn't make sense at all.

      Delete
    3. It makes sense, considering the context.

      Context is a simple concept, but one right wingers struggle with, whether that’s genuine or an argumentative technique can be debated.

      Regardless, whether it makes sense to someone or not, such is the case, there were no discussions. This was investigated.

      Delete
    4. Why does it make sense considering the context?

      Delete
    5. It makes sense due to their relative positions in society, and due to personal tragedies in their family.

      This may not make sense to you, due to your own personal history that prohibits certain functionality; however, we live in a society, and in that context, it does make sense.

      Furthermore, nothing hinges on your limitations, and as lucid as these explanations are, they can not overcome limits in functionality, which likely require more in depth focus from professional experts.

      Delete
    6. It makes sense that Joe Biden would be working on diplomatic missions in Ukraine, traveling there dozens of times and at the same time his son would take a position making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month with an Ukrainian oil company but they would never discuss it because of their relative positions in society? That makes sense to you?

      Delete
    7. Not only does it make sense, but it is in fact the case, as this has been investigated.

      It is of no consequence if it does not make sense to you, that merely indicates a functionality issue you are having.

      When someone has their own issues of integrity or morality, they may struggle with understanding others possessing these traits.

      This may be why you are struggling with this simple and straightforward concept.

      Delete
    8. What has been investigated?

      Delete
    9. One aspect that was investigated was if Joe Biden had discussions with Hunter about his business deals, which was not found to have occurred.

      We did learn that Joe Biden did have discussions with Hunter, they concerned Hunter’s well being and Joe Biden’s loving support for his child.

      This is a losing issue for the Right, the Bidens come off looking decent and humane, in stark contrast to the Trumps, who come off looking ethically and morally corrupt.

      Further discourse on this subject only enhances the Bidens, so your questions are both amusing and bemusing.

      Delete
    10. Biden claimed he had no knowledge at all that any business dealings even existed!

      These are business deals that Hunter made with Chinese companies while he was flying to China on Air Force II with his dad!

      What did these mysterious investigations say about that?

      Delete
    11. It's so cute listening to trolls arguing that the children of the rich and powerful should enjoy no advantages in their careers. I wonder if they are also in favor of increasing the inheritance tax/

      Delete
    12. "These are business deals that Hunter made with Chinese companies while he was flying to China on Air Force II with his dad!"

      No, they aren't. Not literally while either of them was on the plane.

      Delete
    13. That's why everybody's starting to support RFK.

      Delete
    14. Correction: Should be "That's why everybody's starting to support RFK Stadium."

      Delete
  20. It's entirely possible to tell lies about things we *wish* to be true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At this point, Trump wishes he had never entered politics.

      Delete
  21. Trump did not say show me the votes he said find me the votes therefore he did not believe that he won he was hoping that he won

    ReplyDelete
  22. Trump said of DA Willis, that she is “getting killed”. Chilling.

    Trump is a psychopath and a menace to society.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Some reports pointed to 80,000 a month. But 50 or 80. It's a lot of money. And to say you had no knowledge of it ... ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hunter had knowledge of his business deals, however Joe Biden did not, and they did not discuss it. This is unsurprising, since the Bidens do not engage in illegally or corruption, unlike the Trump Crime Family.

      This was investigated.

      In total, over several years, Hunter earned about $4.5 million dollars from his work with Chinese and Ukrainian companies. This is typical of what people earn who did this type of work. Neither Hunter or Joe Biden were involved with any illegality or corruption.

      Had Hunter and Joe lacked the integrity of the Trump Crime Family, they could have easily enriched themselves with the billions that the Trumps corruptly and illegally received.

      Delete
    2. Hunter worked as a lawyer, and provided consulting services.

      Hunter’s business deals required payment for his services. He was not offering volunteer work.

      Delete
    3. Hunter Biden's business associate testified before congress that he had never witnessed father and son discuss business, and a trove of emails available to republicans for years did not contain any such discussions that have been shared with the public. How likely is it that a parent with a son gritting off his name would be made aware if it by the son? All the republicans have here is innuendo and self serving speculation, whereas they willfully ignore the activities of Kushner and Ivanka, whose griftng was done in full view of the public and daddy and was orders of magnitude larger in dollars. What an embarrassment that you/they should focus on one, with zero hard evidence, and ignore the other, that is well documented, especially since Kushner's role in Mideast public policy and his private business dealings with the Saudis were so inappropriate ethically.

      Delete
  24. Trump has announced that DA Willis is “getting killed”.

    This may end Trump’s troubles, we shall see.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Democrats are so worried Black voters won't turn out for Biden in 2024. I'm like don't worry! He's 80!

    ReplyDelete
  26. Maybe Somerby would like to talk about this test score situation in FL? From Digby:

    "This is truly stunning. They rounded up all the Black kids in the school for an assembly. You won’t believe what it was for:

    A Florida elementary school has prompted outrage for singling out its Black students to attend a special assembly identifying them, as a group, as a “problem” because of standardized test performances.

    Black fourth- and fifth-grade students at Bunnell elementary school in Flagler county, central Florida, were pulled from class last Friday and mandated to attend the presentation on improving test scores, the Washington Post reported.

    Students were chosen to attend the presentation based on race, Jason Wheeler, the communications coordinator for Flagler school district, confirmed to the Guardian.

    The nine- and 10-year-old students were shown a powerpoint entitled “AA presentation”, referring to African American, according to a copy of the presentation shared with the Guardian.

    A slide labeled “The Problem” claimed that “AA”, referring to Black students, have underperformed on standardized tests for the past three years.

    A subsequent slide added that students will be placed in a competition with each other to improve their test scores and could receive a meal from McDonald’s as a prize, according to the presentation.

    Several parents were outraged about the assembly and noted how their children were segregated for the presentation, even if they had passed their tests.

    “They segregated our kids, [in] 2023,” Jacinda Arrington, a parent, told WFTV 9, the local ABC affiliate based in Orlando.

    “To me, it told my child that she’s not good enough. The color of your skin means that you’re not good enough when, in fact, she’s one of the smartest kids in her class,” Arrington said to Fox 35 Orlando.

    “This was solely based off of color,” Nichole Consolazio, the parent of a fifth-grade student, said to Daytona News Journal.

    Parents also said their children were reportedly told that if they did not do well in school they would end up dead or in jail.

    The Power Point they used was filled with grammatical errors, by the way.

    This is the state that says teachers should teach that slavery was beneficial for the slaves. Have they lost their minds?"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The contents of the flip phone have been verified.

      Delete
    2. Joe Biden tried to eliminate the Pell Grant

      Delete
    3. He's not saying women are inferior, just biologically different.

      Delete
  27. Would a pro Trump juror even think?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Trump was impeached twice, and only escaped conviction because the GOP controlled the Senate enough to prevent it. He was and is guilty as charged. Even if he sincerely believed the election was stolen, his efforts to steal it back were inlawful.

    ReplyDelete