TUESDAY, AUGUST 8, 2023
Was the election stolen? For almost three years, Donald J. Trump has been crazily claiming that the last election was stolen.
He has never produced a "white paper" presenting his evidence for that remarkable claim. That's because no such evidence actually exists. Biden simply got more votes in each of the relevant states.
Along the way, Trump has convinced tens of millions of Republican voters that the election was stolen. As a general matter, Republican candidates feel they have to play along, so strong is this group belief among the party's voters.
In a recent interview, NBC's Dascha Burns tried to pin Ron DeSantis down concerning this seminal topic. Sadly, the Q-and-A her questions created led to this bogus-adjacent headline in today's New York Times:
DeSantis Bluntly Acknowledges Trump’s 2020 Defeat: ‘Of Course He Lost’
Nehamas and Berzon authored the report. They seemed to think that Burns had succeeded in getting a straight answer out of DeSantis.
Below, you see the way their report began. Where's their basic sense of precision language?
DeSantis Bluntly Acknowledges Trump’s 2020 Defeat: ‘Of Course He Lost’
Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida clearly stated in a new interview that Donald J. Trump lost the 2020 election, diverging from the orthodoxy of most Republican voters, as the former president’s struggling G.O.P. rivals test out new lines of attack against him.
“Of course he lost,” Mr. DeSantis said in an interview with NBC News published on Monday. “Joe Biden’s the president.”
Journalists, please! Everyone knows that Biden is, in fact, the current American president. Donald J. Trump has never denied that blindingly obvious fact.
In his endless, poisonous set of claims, Trump's been saying that Biden took office on the basis of fraudulent votes. He's saying that these fraudulent votes swung the election outcome in several relevant states.
Sadly, here's the (edited) exchange in which NBC's Burns mistakenly thinks that she has forced DeSantis to "put the issue to bed:"
BURNS (8/7/23): Can we just put this to bed so you don't have to be asked about this a million more times? Yes or no, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
DESANTIS: Whoever puts their hand on the Bible on January 20th is the winner.
BURNS: But respectfully, you did not clearly answer that question. And if you can't give a yes or no on whether or not Trump won then how can—
DESANTIS: Of course he lost.
BURNS: Trump lost the 2020 election.
DESANTIS: Joe Biden's the president.
To watch the exchange, click here.
Sadly, that's the way the exchange was aired last night on NBC Nightly News. In that exchange, DeSantis has merely been forced to state the obvious—Biden was sworn in three years ago as the American president.
In the longer, unedited exchange, DeSantis said that there were elements of the election which he thought were inappropriate. This leaves open his answer to the questions Burns should have asked:
Do you agree with Donald Trump's claim that the election was stolen? Do you think that Biden won certain states on the basis of fraudulent votes?
Watching the videotape, it's clear that Burns mistakenly thinks that she's nailing down a basic point. At the New York Times, two reporters (and their editor) seem to have agreed with this mistaken assessment. So did an array of major journalists across the upper-end pile.
The modern journalist cares about wardrobe, makeup, hair, Q ratings and adherence to standard scripts. Basic analytical skills are routinely woefully lacking.
Donald J. Trump continues to say that the election was stolen. Millions of his supporters believe him. It's a deeply poisonous claim.
What would DeSantis have said if he'd been asked about that? In the wake of Burns' fuzzy questions, we're left with no idea.
Burns thought that she'd nailed this matter down. This is your upper-end press corps in action. This is the best we have.
Saying "Joe Biden is President" as is glaring obvious, does not really translate into "Joe Biden got more votes than Trump" or even "Joe Biden did not in anyway cheat to assume the Presidency." it leaves the wriggle room need to appease the average Trump voter, who themselves through any sense of honesty out the window by now.
ReplyDeleteDoe Bob understand this? Obviously he does. It's his own little dance now to stay on team Trump.
This is major hair-splitting, but I don't see how the reporters can be blamed for how they reported DeSantis's remark. That headline is accurate and it reflects what DeSantis said. The rest is sophistry.
ReplyDeleteJournalists shouldn’t have given the impression that Desantis thought the vote was fan square.
DeleteSomerby thinks certain other questions should have been asked, but no one is fighting that war any more except Trump. No one cares about the answers to those other questions.
ReplyDeleteReporters have the right to ask whatever questions they consider relevant. It is their job to do that. Just because they ask different questions than Somerby doesn't make them wrong or incompetent, focused only on hair or money.
None of those millions who believe in Trump would have changed their beliefs or their votes had these reporters asked DeSantis a differently worded question.
This is stupid and we are all wasting our time on this idiotic thrashing over trivialities in wording. This is just another excuse for Somerby to beat-up on journalists, which has the effect of weakening wider trust in the media, not changing beliefs in Trump voters.
DeSantis not only answer the question, but he explained why he thought so: because Biden put his hand on the Bible.
ReplyDeleteThat is clear. Somerby poses a different question, one about were there fraudulent votes. Burns could as easily have asked any number of different questions, such as whether he supported the insurrection, whether he thought Pence had the authority to delay certification, whether he thought Trump would be convicted of subverting the election, and so on. She could have asked whether DeSantis supported the efforts of Trump to overturn the election.
Burns asked what she wanted to ask, and she got a clear answer, which she reported under an accurate headline. She doesn't deserve Somerby's snark when he refers to her as "the best we have" as if she had done anything wrong.
It is ugly when Somerby goes after female journalists this way, maligning them for doing nothing wrong. That he almost never criticizes a male journalist is obvious if you are a regular reader here. At least today he didn't mock whatever school she graduated from or talk about how she only got her degree 10 years ago, or similar nonsense.
Meanwhile, the nitpicks get pickier. Does anyone not know what DeSantis was saying in what was actually reported? Does Somerby?
Burns should've asked DeSantis what he thought of David Brooks' Friday essay.
ReplyDeleteAces
DeleteC he G
DeleteIf Democrats don't want Trump to be president one of the first things they have to do is stop indicting him as ever since the indictments started coming his popularity has skyrocketed.
ReplyDeleteSkyrocketed only among his supporters not others.
DeleteYes, his supporters are the only ones that support him. Thank you.
DeletePerhaps a percentage of our population does need news stories that just repeat the obvious. 🥴
They are the only ones he is increasingly popular with.
DeleteOkay whatever you want to call it he was in the toilet before the indictments came and now he's running neck and neck to win the presidency. That's because the indictments help him. He's probably really hoping he gets indicted as usual, the Democrats is just hand him votes and hand him support.. it's bizarre.
DeleteHalf of Republicans polled say they won’t vote for a convicted criminal. Trump cannot win with only half of Republicans supporting him.
DeleteYes, 8:25, it’s bizarre how “Democrats” want to hold him accountable for criminal offenses against the United States. Why don’t we just dispense with the rule of law altogether?
DeleteWow. The "rule of law" card. Here we are at the bottom of the barrel! How's the weather? mh, you could be a Republican senator in the late 90s spouting that total bullshit! I bet, you may even believe it. You may even have said that seriously. Wow.
DeleteI mean, I hope not.
DeleteTrump needs to be held accountable.
Delete8:25 I get why you’re not hot on accountability, checking the polls one can see your claim is utter nonsense - Trump’s popularity before the indictments was hovering around 38-39%, and now, after 3 indictments, Trump’s popularity is hovering around 38-39%.
DeleteA dubious claim, at best, most likely from. a Trump voter.
DeleteSource: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/01/1191242168/donald-trumps-repeated-legal-woes-have-given-him-a-boost-in-the-polls
DeleteIf DeSantis wanted to seriously distance himself from Trump’s election lies he could have easily done it years ago.
ReplyDeleteEven in the unlikely case that Biden won by means of fraudulent votes, that ship has sailed. No court will take Biden out of the White House. No new audits will be done.
ReplyDeleteA more relevant question is how voting procedures can be improved, so that trust in election results can be increased. Sadly, few people are addressing this concern.
That’s because no one found problems in the many audits done in 2020. You say “sadly” but wh waste money fixing something that isn’t broken?
DeleteThe problem is that our election system isn't sufficiently transparent. When Trump or Stacy Abrams or others claimed that their election was stolen, many people believe them. That's unhealthy for our democracy. Elections should be sufficiently transparent so that voters will be satisfied with the results.
DeleteThis is not true.
DeleteThat the election results aren't trusted can be due to a lack of transparency in election processes, or a lack of critical thinking in those who don't trust them.
DeleteAnd Stacy Abrams' main gripe, as I recall, was that her opponent was in charge of running the election for the office they were contesting. Prohibiting that situation would certainly improve transparency and trust.
Why is this a partisan issue? Why doesn't everyone want elections to be as accurate and as trustworthy as possible?
DeleteThere was trust in elections before Trump decided not to accept the results if he lost. You were here and saw it happen before the election in 2016 (which he won). He was already lying about election fraud.
DeleteIn whatever heinous realm that it squats.
DeleteFraud in the vote count has not been an issue; however, Republican voter suppression and disenfranchisement via gerrymandering and other corrupt tactics are a major problem that has diminished the democratic quality of our society.
DeleteThis is a partisan issue because Republicans are doing it to Democrats because Republicans are feeling the pich of changing demographics and having a harder time winning elections fairly. You should tell your party to cut it out.
DeleteThe fictitious problem of widespread voter fraud is not the least bit a concern to me, so long as every study to date on this subject has disproven that it exists. Fraudulent gerrymandering, largely across racial divides, is of course of little or no concern to republicans, insofar as it is their last ditch effort at voter suppression.
DeleteUnamused -- for your information, gerrymandering across racial lines helped Republicans. Creating a district or two that were predominantly black gained seats for Republicans. The Dems would win the black districts by overwhelming margins, but the Reps would win a larger number of districts by moderate margins.
DeleteAgreeing with me is not an argument against me. Gerrymandering is a construct centering around race used to the advantage of republicans. It is far more prevalent than widespread voter fraud, which thus far has proven to be a fiction that republicans cling to like children when they don't get their way. As far as your earlier arguments regarding black culture as a hindrance to their advancement, I am admittedly ignorant of lynching and redlining as part of the cultural history of Jews, Asians and Italians.Assimilating into white culture, it turns out, is more easily accomplished if you are born white.
DeleteGerrymandering is a construct centering around race used to the advantage of republicans.
DeleteAnd this is where David exits, stage left.
I've seen it happen a thousand times.
Why is this a partisan issue? Why doesn't everyone want elections to be as accurate and as trustworthy as possible?
DeleteBecause your party makes it a partisan issue, David, you damn fool. Republicans have given up on democracy and work endlessly devising ever more mischievous plans to suppress and disenfranchise undesirable voters and thereby maintain their tyranny of the minority. Republicans understand what you apparently are too dim to realize, the more people who vote, the worst their chances are.
The last thing Republicans would want is to pass a bi-partisan national universal voting system. They want to continue control at the state level, forcing Mark Elias to run around the country forever having to challenge their unconstitutional laws suppressing and disenfranchising undesirable citizens. Like the little Dutch boy trying to stick his fingers in the dike, every time we fix one problem republicans devise another ever more devious way to accomplish their objectives.
Republicans got real bent out of shape in 2020 because the individual states reacted to the covid pandemic by expanding vote by mail and other methods to make it easier to vote in the dangerous medical environment. And you can't blame republicans' ire, after going thru so much trouble moving and limiting polling stations in undesirable areas, along comes this damn pandemic fucking up all their well laid plans.
"Why is this a partisan issue? Why doesn't everyone want elections to be as accurate and as trustworthy as possible?"
DeleteWhat makes you think that's not already the case? What specific problems do you see?
After all these years, I still haven’t forgiven Somerby for his irrational stance on Trayvon Martin.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you are the irrational one.
DeleteThe only election interference, based on the NYT teporting, was done by Trump and his lackeys.
ReplyDelete