MONDAY, AUGUST 28, 2023
Segregation and silence: On Saturday morning, C-Span's Washinton Journal invited viewers to respond to the following question:
YOUR TOP NEWS STORY OF THE WEEK?
What did C-Span viewers regard as the week's top "news story?"
Inevitably, the Donald Trump mug shot was frequently mentioned. That said, at 7:20 A.M. Eastern, this exchange occurred:
JESSE (8/26/23): Let's go to Bonnie, who's calling from Prospect, Connecticut, on the Republican line.
BONNIE FROM CONNECTICUT: Hi! How are you?
JESSE: Just fine.
BONNIE FROM CONNECTICUT: I just want to say that people are really mistaken if they believe that more people in this country voted for Joe Biden than President Obama.
I mean, I don't understand. This man. he has no—he has no pizzazz. He's half dead.
And as for Trump being with my sister or daughter, I am fine with that. Joe Biden swims naked with, and takes showers with, his daughter. I mean, come on! Let's be real. Let's talk the truth here.
JESSE: All right. Let's go with Georgia, who's calling from Louisiana on the Democratic line...
Hoping only that we Americans would be willing to "talk the truth," Bonnie seemed to be saying that Biden's alleged vote total in 2020 had been swollen with non-existent, fraudulent votes. Also, she was responding to a previous caller's suggestion that you wouldn't want to leave a female relative alone with Donald J. Trump.
With respect to the naked swimming and the showers, she was echoing a claim which was often advanced by Tucker Carlson when he was still on Fox. In part, this is the way a nation's discourse is likely to go when its largest news organs are almost wholly segregated on the basis of tribe and tribal viewpoint.
Other C-Span callers that day swore that the 2020 election had in fact been stolen. One caller complained that Biden likes to swim naked in front of female Secret Service agents.
This is the way a nation's discourse is likely to go in an age of segregation. Can a major nation survive such a system? We very strongly doubt it.
Alas! As MSNBC has become less and less watchable, we have found ourselves sampling the fare on Fox.
What we see on Fox & Friends qualifies as an anthropology lesson. In fairness, so does much of what we see on our own tribe's "cable news" channel. But that's the way a discourse will go when our tribunes only speak with "our favorite reporters and friends."
George Wallace said it long ago: Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!
He was referring to separation on the basis of "race." Today, we have journalistic separation on the basis of viewpoint and tribe. And within the nation's sprawling news industry, amazingly little attention is paid to the wages of this ongoing disaster.
People like Bonnie from Connecticut are encouraged to believe various things by various news orgs like Fox. A great deal of what they're handed is unfounded or false. Then again, some of it isn't.
We'll try to discuss this topic this week. We don't see a good way out of this mess, and we see little interest, within either tribe, in discussing the vast sweep of the problem.
Tomorrow: Long ago, we first watched Fox & Friends
Well, if it's hopeless Bob, you might try to stop rehashing nonsense (where's my example of what I am being forced to swallow on MSNBC that is commensurate with Trump's election denial?)and simply shut the F up.
ReplyDeleteIt would seem a rather obvious consideration that these people do NOT care who won the election, that the 21st Century Republican has been taught (by 2000, and other possible factors) that the RESULTS of the election DO NOT MATTER, that the more important factor is to keep fighting let hell until the rest of the world lets you have your corrupt way. Bob would be right in claiming there is too little serious analysis as to how we got to this point, but he doesn't seem AT ALL interested in that anymore than the mainstream media he despises. He just wants to let the Right have its way until the unpowerful are crushed.
RFK addressed these points the other night.
DeleteRFK died decades ago. RFK jr is a right wing neoliberal lunatic espousing right wing conspiracy theories tinged with racism.
Delete@12:15 - cite?
DeleteBack when the media was talking about school racial segregation based on residential patterns, Somerby objected that the word segregation referred to government enforced legal separation of students by race, not the self-segregation in today's schools. Today he argues the opposite, comparing the informal self-imposed viewing habits of media consumption to George Wallace and government segregation. But people are not being told what they must watch. They are choosing and the could choose differently if they wanted to. So perhaps segregation is not the right word for this situation.
ReplyDeleteNotice that Somerby's purpose here is not to tell us which of the Fox statements he quotes are incorrect. He lets it stand that Biden showers or swims naked with women not his wife (and they with him, presumably). Because that sounds pretty kinky to Middle America even though it is commonplace in many other countries and cultures. If Somerby wanted to spread this kind of disinformation himself, mission accomplished. He has added to the problem and done an unfairness to Biden.
Nor has he suggested any solution to whatever problem he sees with people deciding what they want to watch or listen to. His muddled view is that people are choosing, not that what people hear is false. And he doesn't seem to care much about correcting what is wrong, much less suggesting how we might clean up Fox's act (without more lawsuits and fines). He seems especially reluctant to suggest that maybe gullible people shouldn't watch Fox. Instead, he is going to tell us how he came to do it himself, and he leaves us with the idea that MSNBC drove him to Fox, which is somehow better, although he doesn't say how and it seems very unlikely given those Biden stories.
If his purpose here were to suggest that we all go sample Fox, either to see how bad it is or because MSNBC is awful, then mission accomplished on that one too. And what is our supposed liberal doing here today spreading lies about Biden and directing people to Fox? Is that how the typical liberal behaves? Not likely.
He's simply suggesting yet again that we improve our national discourse and try to bridge the vast gap between the two parties' voters and what they believe.
DeleteYou will never admit that the left side of the aisle and the associated MSM outlets have any problem. So you are part of what is standing in the way. Of course you won't agree.
I mean, why even bother trying to create an argument against it? We all know your dogma of defending the MSM and the status quo is your priority, so your argument will of course follow.
Most people look at the evidence and weigh and consider it, then develop their hypothesis, theory, or conclusions. You have it backwards. So you're a propagandist.
When this doesn't explain your writing, it is simply bitterness at having donated to TDH. Your opinion has never been impartial, on anything Bob writes. But maybe you'll grow out of that eventually.
It is bothsiderism to pretend that the left is as bad as the right when it comes to false information and deliberate maligning of candidates. I categorically deny that the left is as bad as the right. There are media studies showing that the right is far worse.
DeleteI also deny that those on the right engage in critical thinking about what they hear on right wing sources. The left is more evidence-based than the right. Again, there are studies showing this, so you do not need to take my word for it. Nor is the mainstream media left-biased but rather moderate, whereas the right wing media is much more extreme. Further, the left is more likely to consume a variety of media whereas the right limits itself to only sources that support their own opinions and candidates.
Attacking me doesn't change Somerby's responsibility not to leave disinformation about Biden cluttering up his webpage. The original source of that disinformation is a right-wing book written deliberately to trash Biden and Clinton.
I feel bad too sometimes, Corby.
Delete1:00 Somerby, and you, have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, historical context, and the circumstances of our society.
DeleteWe did not bridge the gap with the right wing slavers, we did not bridge the gap with the right wing nazis; the notion to “bridge the gap” with right wing Republicans, who support corporate dominance, wage slavery, and identity oppression is utter nonsense, and deeply immoral. We tried that already and it was a complete failure, in fact, THAT is how we got Trump, that is how we got to a society that is complacent about a White person having a dollar while a Black person has 15 cents - there’s your gap to bridge, and it’s not going to be bridged by “playing nice” with right wingers, with whom you give an inch and they take a mile.
Today Somerby confesses “we have found ourselves sampling the fare on Fox”, no shit Somerby, your right wing shift is well known.
Then he offers “What we see on Fox & Friends qualifies as an anthropology lesson”, except Somerby knows nothing about anthropology, if he did, he wouldn’t post his absurd and false claims about our discourse and society.
When Bob started this nonsense, maybe twenty years ago now, the premise seemed to be that Fox was beyond taking seriously, that we all knew they were full of crap so let’s clean our own house. Over time you lost that sense, he started regarding Sean as an honest broker, etc. But at any rate, the most watched station, the station more than anyone else responsible for screwing up the poor suckers, was mostly politely ignored. Before he was pulled over and arrested for spewing hatred against Jews and drunk driving, Bob was adamant he could not see any antisemitism in poor Mel Gibson. No surprise Bob had the same thing to say about this as he had for Fox New’s big payout: nothing.
DeleteI don't know what country you're living in but people tell each other what they're supposed to watch all the fucking time
Delete"A great deal of what they're handed is unfounded or false. Then again, some of it isn't."
ReplyDeleteWhy not make some effort to tell us which is which? If people did more of that, then the lies told by Fox would be less of a problem. Truth needs to be defended by combatting lies when they are spoken, no matter where they appear. Even here.
If you swim naked, you don’t waste money on swimsuits.
ReplyDeleteWhether someone swims naked or not in the privacy of their home is no one's business. If it were true, it would be an invasion of Biden's privacy, and a secret service agent commenting on it in public would be fired. The story is unsourced so there is nothing supporting it as true or not. But I think it is also irrelevant and I wonder why anyone would care.
DeleteThe swimming nude story comes from a Republican hit-book written by Kessler that relies on anonymous sources that are hard to verify. He also has written garbage about Hilary Clinton:
ReplyDelete"Nick Merrill, a spokesman for Secretary Clinton, told the Washington Examiner reported the New York Daily News that Mr Kessler joins two other authors (Daniel Halper and Ed Klein) who have written Clinton takedowns this summer in 'a hat trick of despicable actors concocting trashy nonsense."
'Their behaviour should neither be allowed nor enabled, and legitimate media outlets who know with every fibre of their beings that it is completely made up should not get down in the gutter with them.'"
This includes Somerby, who shoud know better than to repeat this made-up disinformation here without a fact-check. Simply saying that some of the stuff on C-Span or Fox is untrue, without saying what, is insufficient. It takes about 30 seconds to find out what is going on with any of the statements made by right-wingers.
Somerby has as much responsibility as anyone else for getting things right when he says stuff or repeats it.
The story was written in 2014, when Biden was VP.
DeleteBilly Graham went swimming in the nude with LBJ in the White House swimming pool, not long after JFK fucked (possibly raped) teenagers in the same pool.
DeleteThe scandal of the Kessler book was it attempted to reveal secret service info that could make Biden vulnerable to attacks; furthermore, credibility aside (only 1 in 10 secret service agents are female), it suggests secret service agents are violating Biden’s personal space, as well as his privacy.
Billy Graham and LBJ swimming nude seems to be true, but recall that in that time period, the YMCA had nude male swim sessions and it was common for men to swim nude. Suits were only required when women and children were present.
DeleteAs for JFK, the intern Alford wrote a book at the end of her life alleging that he overwhelmed her with his fame and implying that he took advantage of her, although she did consent. That book is the only evidence. JFK was long dead when she wrote her book, which was many decades after her memory of events would have been fresh, if any affair did occur. Republicans are motivated to believe such accounts.
Note that Calamity Jane wrote a book long after Buffalo Bill Hitchcock's death saying that they were lovers (they are acknowledged to have been good friends), but no one seems to believe her about that. One must be wary of political motives, in my opinion. It is unfair to malign men who are dead and cannot defend themselves, and the word rape is very strong considering the lack of evidence for even the existence of an affair with a teenage intern, just randiness doesn't do it.
Wild Bill Hickok, not Buffalo Bill (different guy), sorry.
DeleteThe blame rests squarely with the right wing. There are wealthy Republican donors who will fund publishing companies to put out books full of lies in order to harm Democratic candidates. Remember the swift-boating of John Kerry, and books like Clinton Cash? Then the NY Times and other mainstream media wanted to increase readership at a time when print newspapers were struggling to compete with internet news, so they published excerpts of these trashy books. Ditto magazines, who were willing to entertain controversial articles to increase their circulation. Publishing Murray's reprehensible comments from The Bell Curve gained The New Republic (edited by Andrew Sullavin, a right winger) a lot of attention. This has normalized ideas and disinformation that should never have found a wider audience than the right wing fringe where it has always festered. With Fox, which was deliberately created to spread right wing filth, right wing viewers lost the ability to think competently about what they were being told, and now we face an entrenched minority who believe outrageously wrong things at a time when they need to cast votes and participate in democracy but are too impaired to do so. Fox has cleaned up its act slightly after being sued by Dominion, but it is still churning out disinformation when it should have stopped. Meanwhile, the right has moved on to attacking schools, which is where students should learn to think critically and evaluate information, but are being denied that instruction by a right wing that prefers indoctrination.
ReplyDeleteSomerby, of all people, should be arguing that we need to protect our schools from the right wing assault. He isn't doing that. He seems to be saying he doesn't know what can be done, when it should be obvious to him. That's another reason why I think he has gone over to the right.
Here is what Clinton's campaign said about this hacked email:
Delete"In response, the Clinton campaign released a statement today, saying, "In a brazen display of collusion, Russian state owned television continues to promote WikiLeaks' releases even before [WikiLeaks founder Julian] Assange can do it even after it's been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the Russians are the source of the purported [Clinton campaign chairman John] Podesta material. Given a third opportunity on the debate stage to admit and condemn the Kremlin's actions, Donald Trump refused to do it and instead continues to act as Putin's puppet despite being briefed by U.S. intelligence. It is bizarre and disqualifying that he continues to cheer on this attack on our democracy. It is time for Donald Trump to tell the American people what he knows and when he knew it."
The campaign's chief strategist, Joel Benenson, told ABC News' "This Week" Sunday that he has seen things in the emails that "we know aren't authentic." He declined to elaborate.
Benenson, like most of Clinton's other campaign staffers commenting on the issue, was quick to pivot to the fact that U.S. intelligence agencies have said Russian actors are responsible for the recent hacks, the targets of which have included U.S. political organizations such as the Democratic National Committee.
"They are meddling in an American election for the first time in history," Benenson said during the interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos."
In other words, they denied it and said it didn't happen, was the result of Russian hacking and not part of their campaign.
According to Benenson, the embarrassing email that was attributed to him was really just written by Russia?
DeleteThe Clinton campaign blamed an embarrassment on Russia. Hmmmn.
Trump wasn’t “swift boated”, even the so called Steele Dossier turns out to have been corroborated where verification was possible, the email wasn’t embarrassing even as presented, the Russians are known to engage in misinformation campaigns, etc.
DeleteThe Clintons are neoliberal corporatists, not too dissimilar from the Trump administration, one key difference being that they had the integrity to oppose fascist authoritarians like Putin, whereas Trump was happy to be Putin’s puppet as long as he could personally benefit.
Calling the Clintons "neoliberal corporatists" is the language Russia used to recruit Bernie bros to oppose Clinton when she ran against Trump. It bears no resemblance to the Clintons' actual views, which are hugely different than Trump's.
DeleteTruth doesn't become untrue when used by people you don't like
DeleteWhy does Somerby spend so much time watching C-Span call-in shows, where people are expressing opinions? Why doesn't he spend his time reading informed sources instead?
ReplyDeleteI get it that C-Span is trying to encourage participatory democracy by letting everyone express themselves, but when there is no back-and-forth and no correction of the misinformation, how does this format contribute to anyone's understanding of anything?
"Why does Somerby spend so much time watching C-Span call-in shows, where people are expressing opinions?"
DeleteIt's a lazy way for him to find the fodder to support his narratives.
The conversation is granting as "viewpoints" the statements that are deceptions and lies, the "not real".
ReplyDeleteThere was a pretty clear moment when Bob signaled he wasn’t going to critique Fox anymore except very occasionally. He has had zero to say about the astronomical pay out on their lawsuit for lying to the public about the election results. Bob ( like the press) has ignored the million dollar judgement awarded Hillary Clinton for counter suing Trump.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Snopes, the claimed sentence about Biden coming into her shower by Ashley Biden is not contained in her purported diary at all. It is not real. Further, the assertion that the FBI said the diary was authentic is not true either. This is all false info to malign Biden by portraying him as abusing his daughter. This kind of thing is very ugly and should not be tolerated without legitimate sourcing. A call-in show that lets people say whatever they want, including slanderous stuff, is unhelpful in the current climate, as well as grossly unfair to Biden and his daughter.
ReplyDeleteIn the old days, Somerby was all about correcting the disinformation about Clinton and Gore. Those days are gone.
ReplyDeleteThis is the integrity and morality of Somerby and the Right, they have to make up false garbage about Biden because Trump actually has been found libel for sexual abuse, been accused of sexual assault by over 20 women, and a minor, and has said disgusting and incestuous things about his daughter Ivanka:
ReplyDelete“she does have a very nice figure. I've said if Ivanka weren't my daughter perhaps I'd be dating her.”
“Is it wrong to be more sexually attracted to your own daughter than your wife?"
“Let me tell you one thing: Ivanka is a great, great beauty"
“She’s actually always been very voluptuous“
"She actually said, 'Daddy, can I go with you?' I like that. 'Daddy, can I go with you?' I said, 'Yes, you can.'
"Yeah, she's really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I weren't happily married and, ya know, her father..."
Top three things Donald Trump is jealous of:
Delete3) Biden's economy.
2) Obama's popularity.
1) Jared Kushner's penis.