WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 23, 2023
...at this evening's event: For starters, no—it isn't a "debate."
You could say that Kennedy and Nixon had a set of debates in 1960. On the level of nomination contests, you could say the same about Gore and Bradley, the only two Democratic candidates in 2000.
Tonight, eight Republicans will share the stage in a serial press event. The only questions which need to be asked are variants of this one:
Do you agree with former president Trump's continuing claim that the 2020 election was stolen? If so, on what basis do you make that claim?
Several of the performers tonight would try to slide away from the first of those questions. Ideally, the moderators would be ready with detailed follow-up questions, including a set of questions about the former president's continuing failure to present any evidence in support of his ongoing claim.
Other questions follow:
Do the participants believe that Trump won Georgia in 2020? If so, why do they believe that?
Do they believe that he won Arizona? That he won Wisconsin? If so, on what basis can they make such claims?
With the possible exception of DeSantis, none of the people on stage tonight is actually seeking nomination. There's no point asking them to state their views on any issue.
Only one question should exist on that stage:
Is there any reason—any reason whatsoever—why any voter should believe this unsupported ongoing claim by Donald J. Trump?
Just as people have the right to vote, they have the right to run for office, if they meet the qualifications. That is the nature of our democracy. In keeping with that, debate moderators should treat every debate participant as a serious candidate. It is not the role of moderator to be a kingmaker by deciding who counts as serious and who doesn’t.
ReplyDeleteSomerby suggesys that they should all be treated as non-candidates because he doesn’t believe they can win. Well, it isn’t Somerby’s place to decide that either.
We should listen to each candidate on the issues or we are ceding the dictator role to Trump and that is not how a democracy works.
It is irrelevant what anyone thinks about who won in 2020. Why waste time asking about it? And why would anyone give an honest answer under these circumstances?
ReplyDeleteAll good points. I get so tired of this notion that a stolen election would somehow be "undemocratic."
DeleteTime to move on. To the next election.
I see your next election and I raise you four indictments.
DeleteWhy would a presidential candidate willingly make tonight’s debate about Trump and 2020, instead of about themselves and the needs of the nation?
ReplyDeletePrecisely. This concern that half the country thinks the administrative processes of our elections are rotten to the core is, frankly, a little shrill.
DeleteTrump is a criminal facing prosecution for multiple crimes. He isn’t going to be elected. He didn’t have the courtesy to show up. He should be ignored by those who did.
ReplyDeleteCan't think of a single politician who ever went to jail and became a famous dictator not a single one
DeleteTrump is too dumb to write a book in prison.
Delete9:29 you are correct, it’s never happened in American history. This is well known, but good on you for pointing it out.
DeleteLiterally just the no true Scotsman fallacy. America has a white supremacist movement problem and it's not going away. They're getting hired to police the border, they're attacking journalists, they're building inroads into the church, and this is all continuing to happen while Trump is being indicted.
DeleteIt’s not a no true Scotsman fallacy, 9:29 says they can’t think of an example while hinting at Hitler, which contextually is a nonsensical example, so 1:08 in response doesn’t say no true American would do so, they accurately say it’s never happened in American history.
DeleteAmerica was founded on white supremacy, and that continues to this day, even after a war, constitutional amendments, and laws passed to dismantle that circumstance.
But that isn’t countered by 6:10, who is making a different point that is valid.
"America's been white supremacist hundreds of years without a dictator and we're not starting now!"
DeleteAnd people wonder why the world laughs at us but.
People laugh at you because you say stupid shit, 8:26.
DeleteCalling this “not a debate” because there aren’t just two people is a tiresome nitpick that ignores the purpose of the event, which is to let the public become acquainted with the candidates. Somerby appears to want to sabotage that effort. To help Trump?
ReplyDeleteWhy the question mark? We've all seen the tapes of Bob partying at Mar-a-Lago.
DeleteWise up everyone.
He was gone for over two weeks. Where was he?
DeleteI suspect he was also gone during that 6-1/2 weeks when he wrote about nothing but the MS NAEP scores.
DeleteMaybe we should make him fill out a time card.
DeleteTroll banter is boring as fuck.
DeleteWell, it’s nice Bob has finally decided the wholesale corruption of the Republican Party is relevant. But why now?
ReplyDeleteIf someone were a Democrat, then the questions Somerby asks might have some academic interest, but there is no chance they would ever vote for one of the Republican candidates no matter what their answers to any questions. If someone were a Republican, they wouldn't care about the answers to Somerbys questions either, since they would either vote for Trump or find him disgusting and vote for someone else. If they don't finding Trump disgusting by now, nothing anyone says about him at this debate is going to matter to them.
ReplyDeleteThe only context in which this debate matters at all, is the scenario where Trump has dropped dead and the Republicans are scrambling to field a candidate to oppose Biden. At that point, no one's attitude toward Trump or 2020 is going to matter at all.
So, why does Somerby consider this to be an important question?
"journalists should stop asking hard questions for politicians because Americans already made up their mind about everything"
DeleteWhat makes @9:41 think Somerby's suggested questions would be hard for the debaters to answer? They have all been scrambling to show their fealty to Trump in order to woo his supporters should Trump become ineligible to run.
DeleteYes, I think that those who have made their mind up about Trump will find the debate unhelpful, as they most likely did. Why wouldn't someone have made up their mind about Trump already? He served a term and is running for another one. We know what he is like. We also know what Biden is like. How would Trump debating serve any purpose when both men have already served terms in which they displayed their abilities and governing intentions?
Aside from 9:41’s strawman, they do not seem to understand right wingers and electoral politics.
DeleteIf every single politician on stage one after another bend it over to Trump they would all look like a fucking cult
DeleteBy not creating this situation where politicians can be held accountable for cult politics in the public eye the media are being very gentle on the Republican party.
DeleteSomerby is hell bent on developing a reputation of being obscenely ignorant.
ReplyDelete1) The “stolen election” issue is highly motivating to a large segment of right wingers. Duh.
2) It’s more likely than not that Trump is found guilty and sentenced, in a way that diminishes his electability to zero. Duh.
This week alone, we have the revelation that Trump conspired to have his employees move classified documents to obstruct federal procedures, and then lie about it, aided by Trump hiring their lawyer, who also had them lie under oath about it. Unfortunately for Trump, Jack Smith was a few steps ahead and got one of them to flip.
Trump is toast.
Duh.
The only question which needs to be asked…
ReplyDeleteIs Somerby a moron?
The evidence denies any answer but “yes”.
The comment section today is so ridiculous I can't believe it. All day they moaned it this block isn't hard enough on Trump and then finally he's asking the media and politicians to condemn Trump and liberals can't even agree with him.
ReplyDeletePardon the voice autocorrect it should say this blog not this block
DeleteThere's a routine accusation leveled at Bob somersby that he's in part of a can right-wing conspiracy to help Trump.
DeleteThese are the same people who will turn around and tell you history is a conspiracy theory written by Michael Moore.
Why would you expect a typical reaction of fearful paranoia to this blog to have any other reaction?
The liberals on his blog are intellectual cowards. They want the toothpaste commercial to come back on so they can stop thinking
Trump is a has-been and there is no reason for anyone at the debate to talk about him. They need to talk about the issues and what they would do if elected president, as has occurred at every previous presidential debate. Making this about someone who wasn't there is wrong, and that has nothing to do with the commenters here. It is a response to Somerby's very stupid suggestion about the debate questions.
DeleteYou are probably more ridiculous than anyone. Only one question that should be asked? There are dozens of questions that need to be asked on Trump alone.
DeleteWith all due respect 7:43 and 7:57, y’all make unsubstantiated/incoherent (Micheal Moore? toothpaste?) claims and don’t bother to directly counter comments on their merits.
DeleteCowards? That reads like projection.
The typical liberal reaction to the news is to compare it to other news in the present not to history. At most they might imply somebody is on the wrong side of history but they won't actually cite history itself.
DeleteAs for the conspiracy theories that Bob somersby is a secret Republican agent, you only have to wait for a few more blogs to read that again.
12:09 the first half of your comment is incoherent, and Somerby isn’t particularly secretive about his support for Republicans.
DeleteProbably some of the candidates are really running for Vice President. If Trump wins, the VP would become President if Trump dies, or would be a leading contender for the next election anyway. So in principle their attitudes on issues could be very important.
ReplyDeleteYou have a way of weaving words that paints vivid pictures in my mind and sparks my build now gg imagination. I feel like I'm right there with you in each story you tell.
ReplyDelete