FRIDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2023
Also, what Hillary said: Is Steve Bannon tired of all the winning? Consider what the gent once said, way back in the early days:
Bannon vows a daily fight for ‘deconstruction of the administrative state’
The reclusive mastermind behind President Trump’s nationalist ideology and combative tactics made his public debut Thursday, delivering a fiery rebuke of the media and declaring that the new administration is in an unending battle for “deconstruction of the administrative state.”
Stephen K. Bannon, the White House chief strategist and intellectual force behind Trump’s agenda, used his first speaking appearance since Trump took office to vow that the president would honor all of the hard-line pledges of his campaign.
Appearing at a gathering of conservative activists alongside Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, Bannon dismissed the idea that Trump might moderate his positions or seek consensus with political opponents. Rather, he said, the White House is digging in for a long period of conflict to transform Washington and upend the world order.
[...]
Bannon framed much of Trump’s agenda with the phrase, “deconstruction of the administrative state,” meaning the system of taxes, regulations and trade pacts that the president says have stymied economic growth and infringed upon U.S. sovereignty. Bannon says that the post-World War II political and economic consensus is failing and should be replaced with a system that empowers ordinary people over coastal elites and international institutions.
So reported Rucker and Costa in the Washington Post.
In February 2017, that's what the mastermind said! He wanted to "deconstruct the administrative state" and "upend the world order."
That was then; this is now. We no longer have a House of Representatives, and it isn't clear when we'll ever have one again. Meanwhile, wars rage in central Europe and in Israel, and the headlines on this recent report from NBC News told us this:
Sen. Tommy Tuberville won't lift his military blockade amid Israel-Hamas conflict
For months, the Alabama Republican has held up more than 300 military nominees, including top officers who would command forces in the Middle East.
Two major wars are under way. But we don't have a functioning House, and we don't have military leaders.
People, we're just saying! We'd offer this possible framework of understanding:
An uncounted number of "silent secessions" have already taken place. Consciously or otherwise, an uncounted number of political figures may no longer consider themselves to be, first and foremost, American citizens.
A lot of alternate identities are floating around—red and blue, black and white, and many other varieties. There's nothing automatically "wrong" with any such identity, but it's hard to run a modern nation when there are so many routes of escape.
All in all, our political civilization, such as it ever was, may be in the process of "end[ing]" in exhaustion," as Norman O. Brown once imagined and said. To recall the savant's stated vision, you can just click here.
As we started this week, we planned to discuss Hillary Clinton's recent statement about who The Others are.
Why are so many voters "still with Trump?" We think her statement was very unwise, though others would call it spot-on:
CLINTON (9/6/23): It's a classic tale of an authoritarian populist who really has a grip on the emotional, psychological needs and desires of a portion of the population. And the base of the Republican Party, for whatever combination of reasons, and it is emotional and psychological, sees in him someone who speaks for them.
And they are determined that they will continue to vote for him, attend his rallies, wear his merchandise. Because for whatever reason, he and his very negative, nasty form of politics resonates with them.
Maybe they don't like migrants. Maybe they don't like gay people or black people or the woman who got the promotion at work they didn't get.
Whatever the reason, you know, Make America Great Again was a bid for nostalgia, to return to a place where, you know, people could be in charge of their lives, feel empowered, say what they want, insult whoever came in their way.
And that was really attractive to a significant portion of the Republican base. So it is like a cult. And somebody has to break the—break that momentum. And that's why I believe Joe Biden will defeat them. And hopefully, then that will be the end and the fever will break.
Why are so many people "still with Trump?" Maybe they don't like black people, she said. Maybe they don't like migrants, or maybe they don't like gays.
Maybe they just want to spew insults. At any rate, Clinton offered no other possible reason why people might still be "with Trump." They're simply caught in a fever, a cult.
After war broke out in Israel, we dropped our plan to spend the week discussing that remark. Also, we were appalled by what we saw unfolding on that front, and in some of the ways that conduct is being discussed.
But in our view, Clinton's remark can almost be seen as a type of "silent secession" too. In our view, this attitude within our blue tribe is unlikely to lead toward The Good.
Is Steve Bannon tired of all the winning? The House of Representatives has ceased to exist, and the world order is under attack.
Meanwhile, within our own tribe, we're strongly inclined to otherize The Others. It's hard to run a modern nation—hard to maintain the existing order—when the loathing of those outside one's own tribe is so simple-minded, reflexive and deep.
Is Steve Bannon tired of all the winning? Clinton's remark may have been well-intentioned, but do such remarks, and such attitudes, possibly help Bannon win?
We apologize for the limited discussion of our original topic. We've been appalled by the week's events, and attention had to be paid.
“It’s hard to run a modern nation—hard to maintain the existing order— when the loathing of those outside one’s own tribe is so simple-minded, reflexive, and deep.”
ReplyDeleteDiscuss.
It’s simple, really. Just dissolve all political parties and eradicate factions. We can then return to a condition that has never existed in the history of the world, and certainly never existed in the US. Also, I seem to be hearing that only Democrats are really to blame.
Deletemh, I don’t know what you’re hearing, but notice that Bob isn’t using the term “Biden’s Wars” for the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza.
DeleteNotice, too, who Somerby credited with having achieved his goal of chaos on several continents per upending the old world order.
Or somethin’…
Some of what Dogface can’t grasp (or admit)
ReplyDeleteIs that a lot of Bob’s problem (to be kind)
Is a matter of emphasis.
“We dropped our plans to spend the week
discussing that remark.”
What HC said about boils down to
“they drunk the koolaid” , it actually can
be interpreted as generous.,
But like his Foxy friends, he was going
to make a Federal Case out of it.
More in sorry than in anger, of course.
"We no longer have a House of Representatives"
ReplyDeleteWell, 208 Democrats voted to remove McCarthy, and only 8 Republicans.
How's this Steve Bannon's fault? Give credit where credit is due.
The Dems have there own guy, credible
Deleteand sane, ready to be speaker. He is
in no way associated with Trump’s
rape of the Capitol. He would have
only needed a handful of Republican
votes. We would have had a functioning
Congress not beholden to the
ravings of a criminal lunatic.
Will Bob spend a week discussing
ReplyDeleteMark Levin’s new book
“The Democrat Party
Hates America?”
You can pick it up at Costco,
Dogface.
It seems the Others loathe Us as much as We loathe Them.
DeleteAre you placing yourself among the “Us”? I don’t loathe conservatives myself. Do you? Somerby seems to be overgrneralizing.
DeleteI loathe conservatives. I am not Corby.
DeleteDogface, wake me up when such a childish book is sold by an MSNBC commentator to MSNBC viewers.
DeleteHad any serious national Democratic
figure behaved in a way vaguely
resembling Trump there would have
been a mass defection from the
Party, and you know it.
Shorter Anonymice:
Delete"Our loathing of Them is justified; Their loathing of Us is not."
Even shorter: Dogface is to dumb to
Deleterecognize basic distinctions.
Years ago, conservatives liked to say, "Conservatives think liberals are good people with wrong ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people with wrong ideas."
DeleteToday, more and more, that first sentence is changing to "Conservatives think liberals are BAD people with wrong ideas."
I now do feel that way about liberal political leaders. IMO they are cynically saying and doing bad things simply to gain power and riches. They don't care if their policies hurt the people they claim to care about.
That’s the same horseshit, David,
DeleteI’ve been hearing for at least half
a Century from your ideological
comrades. The Civil rights programs
of the sixties didn’t help blacks,
they are just stealing there money,
etc. But, the bullshit conversion
story is also a staple. Your votes
for Trump reveal to all you never
had any common decency,
and now you must lash out.
The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.
Deleteanon 1:54, you along with the other obsessive critics of TDH are too dumb to see how dumb the dems/liberals are on a slew of things - that probably accounts for how so many republicans, including Trump, get elected. there's an absence of critical thinking.
DeleteAnd… the reason for doing this is in order to treat such people badly.
DeleteThere is no anon 1:54, just David.
DeleteIMO they are cynically saying and doing bad things simply to gain power and riches.
DeleteThis from the party that literally stole SC seats, and works tirelessly devising ever more sinister plans of suppressing votes. Why does your party do that, David? Cause they're nice guys not interested in maintaining power?
“Dogface is to [sic] dumb to recognize basic distinctions.”
DeleteI think I recognize the distinctions:
We’re smart; They’re stupid.
We’re tolerant; They are racist misogynists.
In short, We are good; They are evil.
You are continuing to ally yourself with the liberals here, despite defending Somerby at every opportunity. Given that Somerby repeats so many conservative memes and talking points, when you align yourself with Somerby you create some confusion about your own political views.
DeleteFor myself, I tend to view conservatives as ignorant rather than stupid. They do not seem to know basic facts, such as that there are more registered Democrats in this country than there are Republicans. I don't pity Trump but I do pity the people who send Trump their money.
I have many conservative friends through my hobbies, such as bridge and theatre, but we don't talk politics at all. If I do try to talk to them, they don't listen to anything I say and they aren't going to change their minds. They have to change their minds in their own time and via their own path. My current bridge partner voted for Trump twice, but she says he has been indicted too many times to vote for him again -- so there is some hope for change.
Somerby is a liberal who believes it might serve liberal interests to try to talk to, and persuade, 1-2% of the Others. This puts him at odds with most of his liberal commenters here, who feel it is pointless to try to persuade any of the Others because they are all brain-dead racists. These liberal commenters feel that trying to persuade any of th Others is so obviously pointless that Somerby must be a conservative, or a paid propagandist, falsely professing to be a liberal.
DeleteI, on the other hand, am a liberal who thinks Somerby’s view makes a lot of sense.
This is your best post. It’s self-regarding as usual, but a sincere attempt to be rational.
DeleteRe: Anonymouse 6:47pm.
Delete@3:42 argues that the Republican pols are as bad as the Dem pols. I agree. Most politicians of both parties are primarily interested in getting re-elected and taking advantage of their position. Does anyone think Hunter Biden would have gotten a sweetheart contract with Burisma if his father had not been VP?
DeleteSo, I don't expect much good from Washington. In fact, many laws do more harm than good IMO.
I prefer the Republicans to the Dems because the Dems generally favor giving Washington more power than the Reps. The more power Washington, the more harm they'll do.
Wrong, David. Democratic pols are nowhere near as bad as your pack of barbarians you charmingly call a political party. Republicans have basically abandoned all pretense of believing in democracy (small d). So please learn to read more carefully and try not to put words in my mouth.
DeleteWhat liberal supported Roy Moore in his attempts to woo underage teens?
DeleteWhat liberal would say that a woman shouldn't drink too much at a party if she doesn't want to be raped?
What liberal would call Ketanji Brown Jackson underqualified for the Supreme Court, given her vita?
What liberal would have called every single one of the candidates for the presidential nomination in 2019-2020 "horrible candidates"?
What liberal moans about our country sliding into the sea without ever mentioning climate change?
What liberal is still against integration of public schools, after describing what a mistake it was to implement it in the Boston schools back in the 70s?
What liberal never defended Hillary against attacks related to Benghazi, emails, etc., but was right there to defend Trump when she claimed he "stalked" her around the stage during one of the debates?
And there are so many more examples of Somerby's supposedly liberal views...
Corby is adorable.
DeleteCorbs is adorbs
DeleteAdorable? Or despicable slanders?
DeleteDogface George,
DeleteAre the people who believe 2+ 2= 4, smarter than the people who believe 2 + 2 = 7?
Or do they just think they are?
Don't worry Corby, you will learn to add two and two. Eventually.
DeleteAC/ MA,
DeleteStop beating around the bush, and instead tell us exactly which group of people shouldn't have their rights protected, without using the word "woke".
anon 12:05I assume you are the same anon who asked this dumb question before. i answered it. I don't think any group of people shouldn't have their "rights" "protected." Your question makes no sense: what does having to use the word "woke" have to do with protecting the "rights" of any people? your question is dumb because your question implies that there is some "group of people" whose rights you think I don't want protected; you don't identify which "rights" you are talking about; and there is nothing in my above comment that implies that there are any groups whose rights should not be protected.
Deleteanon 10:31, About everything you say is a distortion of what TDH has posted, your modus operandi here. But the topper is that TDH didn't defend Clinton against the Bengazi charges. You are shameless. TDH over a period of months, repeatedly and vociferously defended her - against the baseless attacks against her, and the clueless way that the lib media and pundit class treated the situation.
DeleteAC/ MA had no idea what he meant by "identity politics". All he knew was that it was a Right-wing meme he wanted to repeat.
Deleteanon 3:06, you are responding with a non sequitur. What is your basis for contending that I have "no idea what he [me?] meant by what "identity politics" is? Where do you get the idea that all I knew was that "it was a right-wing meme [I] wanted to repeat." You don't know what you're talking about - that's my issue with some of the commenters here like you just did now., it's generally illogical gibberish, they feel free to distort what TDH or anyone who defends the blogger says. For your info, I share your dim view of the right-wing pundits, Trump, and what many of his followers say - but sometimes they have a point. Identity politics isn't a precise term, but as I see it, it is the view that one's racial or sexual status defines who you are above all other considerations, instead of judging or recognizing people as individuals. A black person is more than just being black, and the same goes for being white, or any other color.
DeleteAC/ MA,
DeleteJust keep tilting at those windmills.
That wasn't the Right who said, "A black person is more than just being black". That Was Black Lives Matter.
DeleteNotice that Somerby suggests no alternative reasons himself why the Others still support Trump.
ReplyDeleteThe mainstream media also has no idea why the Others still support Trump. All they know is it could never in a million years be the bigotry Republican voters wear on their sleeves.
DeleteWe’re now moving from the Bronze Age to the Brass Age.
ReplyDeleteveiled threat?
DeleteNo, just a better alloy.
DeleteEvery event. Every bit of news. Anywhere in the world. It’s about Trump.
ReplyDeleteEverything is Trump.
To him, certainly. And since this is obvious, it sure makes you an idiot for giving him your vote.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:21pm, he’s in your head till the day you shuffle off.
DeleteI gave him a vote. You’ve given him everything else.
Projecting much?
Delete“I gave him a vote.” Doesn’t much matter what anyone else “gave” him. That vote helped put the nut job in office. You can never undo that, and that is more than the rest of us ever “gave” the sob.
DeleteSo, what does it tell you that this "nut job" did so much better in office than any of your great leaders? No new wars, no economic bubbles, no inflation, superb prosperity.
Deletehttps://news.gallup.com/poll/285593/say-better-off-past-elections.aspx
What does it say about your pols?
It tells me, 3:20, that you are delusional.
DeleteIn response to a Cecelia at 2:16, actually I got over Trump a long time ago. I don’t waste much time on hate, but do reserve a healthy contempt for those who gave him a vote. Extra credit for two…
Delete@3:25 PM
DeleteIs that it?
Anonymouse 3:25pm, you were doing “extra healthy” doses of contempt towards any contrarians way before Trump.
DeleteHell, you’re here forever doing it toward a democratic blogger.
No, Trump has transfixed the left. They have headspace for nothing else.
Cecelia, until you acknowledge that your vote went to a sociopath (as Somerby has so often calls him) and that that harmed our country, you have no business attacking the liberals here. You’re only here because you don’t get enough hatred of liberals at your usual sites, so you like to come here to see them dumped on by a so-called “Democrat.”
Deletemh, I have all the “business” and right to be here as you have.
DeleteIn fact, as to your own illogical arguments, since you believe Somerby is a stealth conservative, I would have more aegis than you to be here.
"Being here" is not the same as "attacking liberals here," which is what mh accused you of doing. And you clearly are not here to discuss anything. Everyone sees that.
DeleteAnonymouse 6:36pm, yes, being here is the same as attacking anonymices. I don’t attack liberals/Democrat in general.
DeleteAnonymices have no problem with making personal attacks on the blogger and toward anyone else who doesn’t share their opinion.
It’s astounding how entitled you are and how thoroughly convinced that this is essentially your turf/blog space.
I tend to agree with Cecelia here. But, again, a big part of the problem is the promiscuous use of “Anonymous.” If you don’t use a nym, your reasonable comments tend to get lost among the many irrational comments posted by other Anonymice.
DeleteIn my view, if you have something worthwhile to say, you will be more likely to persuade if you use a nym.
And yes, I know - you’re likely to be attacked by a pack of Hit-and-Hide Anonymice. But if it gets bad - just change your nym!
No surprise that you agree with Cecelia. The surprise is that you too are pretending to be liberal when nothing you have said here ever is consistent with that claim.
DeleteToo bad Somerby doesn't use a system like Disquis, which would help prevent sockpuppetry and other troll game-playing.
Anonymouse 10:23pm, I doubt Disquis would consider it trolling to agree with a blogger on his blog.
DeleteDisquis is not a blogger. It is an automated comment system used on many blogs.
DeleteThe candidate with the most votes is Hakeem Jeffries. Members who want the House to get back to work should vote for him.
ReplyDeleteWhat World Order is Somerby referring to? More conspiracy jargon? Jews? It is a loaded term.
ReplyDeleteCorby is adorable.
DeleteCan you explain what Somerby means by it?
DeleteIf WaPo quoted Steve Bannon correctly, you'll need to ask Steve Bannon what he meant by it.
DeleteTo me, it sounds like he doesn't want the US to be the world's policeman anymore.
Bannon didn’t say it. Somerby did. He is not quoting Bannon.
DeleteSo Somerby thinks the US is the World Order?
DeleteI don't know if Bannon said it or not, but Somerby quoted WaPo stating that Bannon said it. Read the post, Corby.
DeleteThe words “World Order” do not appear in Bannon’s quote. Somerby said them.
DeleteSomerby attributed the words to two reporters, but Somerby himself referred to the New World Order a few days ago. Bannon was not quoted as referring to World Order in what Somerby posted today.
DeleteNew World Order is part of white supremacist and anti-semitic rhetoric, referring to a global conspiracy of Jews and wealthy people, and (previously) masons and the Illuminati and George Soros. It is an ugly reference that shouldn't be coming out of Somerby's mouth in any context, but especially not this one of war between Hamas and Israel. Usually the term war is reserved for discussing tensions between two countries and Hamas is not a nation.
Also, there is nothing in Bannon's quote about winning, much less "too much winning". Why is Somerby titling his essay "Is Steve Bannon Tired of All the Winning?" Hillary didn't say it, but Somerby's title could imply she did and was rubbing it in that Bannon was sentenced to 4 months in federal prison, although staying out while he appeals seems like a win compared to others convicted of crimes.
Hillary is not gloating but who knows what Somerby's headline means. He tosses out remarks like that and never explains them. But it is clear that he is scolding liberals and that is why mh and the rest of us think he is blaming the left. If he were blaming Republicans, he might address remarks to them directly, instead of accusing us of "otherizing" people who are "otherizing" us. Note that someone here is calling corby (an obvious liberal) "Satan". Doesn't that sound like otherizing? It does to me.
Anonymouse 7:04pm, Bob is saying that our systems are breaking down and this is what Trump and Bannon intended.
DeleteThe turmoil and animosity in the House is part of Bannon’s “winning”.
Bob thinks that the Red Tribe has napalmed all common sense, but points the finger at the rhetoric on both sides as having led to a breakdown in the ability to legislate and lead. He points to the media as to the inaccuracy of our information, which affects our ability to draw accurate conclusions and to discount false narratives.
Bob thinks Trump and Bannon have successfully wreaked havoc in the earth, and the media and Democrats have been asleep at the wheel or pursuing their own gain in ramping up the anger.
So you’ve gotten off pretty good with this narrative, over all. I don’t know why anonymices are so darn sensitive…
Cecelia, you shouldn't have to explain what you think Somerby meant. He should be clear about what he is saying. When you say "Bob thinks" over and over, we wonder how you know what he thinks, when he hasn't said the things you attribute to him, especially not about Bannon or Trump.
DeleteIf Somerby were actually criticizing Trump and Bannon, as Cecelia claims, why would the conservatives here be such fan boys and girls?
DeleteAnonymouse 7:39pm, you shouldn’t play dumber than you are and either misrepresent what the blogger says or pretend that he’s particularly cryptic.
DeleteAnonymouse 7;49pm, because Bob has a dead-on perspective as to our media and chattering class. He’s freaking brilliant.
DeletePeople don’t have to share my politics and all my opinions for me to like them, their books, movies, plays, blogs, shoes, and handbags.
The world doesn’t work like that and it must be perfectly awful to feel that it should.
Cecelia 7:32 - Amen.
DeleteDogface George, I have some problems with our Johnny-come-lately narratives too.
DeleteWhy must we do a Dresden on Gaza?
Is there some connection with the recent announcement that the U.S. has about had it with funding Ukraine?
I’m even cautious when it comes to stories about 40 babies.
Buyer beware.
The official US policy is that we support Ukraine, regardless of what you may have heard on right wing blogs or Fox. The recent official announcement is that the US stands with Israel.
DeleteThe unwillingness of Republicans to support US obligations reflects very badly on the right, in my opinion. Republicans do not get to devise their own foreign policy distinct from that of our president, who speaks for our nation. Republicans undercutting that are verging on treason, in my view, which is consistent with the way the right treated "Hanoi Jane" and other war protesters who attempted to undermine American commitment to the Vietnam war.
You also don't seem to understand what happened in Dresden if you think Israel's retaliation is anything similar. Histrionic propagandizing is unhelpful.
Anonymouse 10:22pm, I’m a conservative. I don’t have to trust politicians and salute every flag they run up a pole.
DeleteAs to the Ukraine, I just know what this guy said.
https://x.com/NationalIndNews/status/1712173496799736304?s=20
Cecelia 10:05 - I remember the Gulf of Tonkin, and the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which leads me to share your apprehension about the fog of war. I’m not as worried as you probably are, however, because I fundamentally trust Biden, and you, I think, don’t.
DeleteDG, do you remember Iraq?
DeleteI don’t “fundamentally” trust anybody in Washington.
There is a thin line between “distrust” and treason.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:44am, it’s not treasonous to disagree with your government.
DeleteI’m sorry that I must remind you that this is America.
Perhaps Bannon is correct that we should all support the people who burn the flag of the United States of America.
DeleteCecelia,
DeleteWho are you really, Colin Kaepernick?
Anonymouse11:54am, I don’t agree with their sentiments, but I wholeheartedly support their right to speech.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:54pm, I recently “took a knee” to fetch an earring out of a rug, and my husband had to grab my arm and help me up.
DeleteYes. Kaepernick really is a better American than you will ever think of being. No one is arguing otherwise.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:52pm, he’s off base, but I’m not arguing against your claim here either.
Delete"Two major wars are under way. But we don't have a functioning House..."
ReplyDeleteBob implies that it's just a coincidence that the world has has two new major wars during Biden's regime and no new wars under Trump's regime. I don't think these wars are random events. I think Trump was better than Biden at discouraging aggression by bad actors like Putin and Iran and Hamas.
"I think Trump was better than Biden at discouraging aggression by bad actors like Putin and Iran and Hamas."
DeleteThat's great. Now here comes the hard part. Tell us why you think this. In the case of Hamas for example, tell us how Trump being in the White House would have changed anything.
Okay, go.
Of course these are not random events. Do you think appeasing Putin was a good idea, even if he waited to invade Ukraine. If Trump had held firm against annexing Crimea things might be different. And it was Trump who let Iran amass that $6 billion. And Trump dismantled the treaties and agreements that restrained Iran and predatory nations.
DeleteStrength as a nation is not conveyed by sucking up to dictators.
Hector asked, "Why was Trump better than Biden at discouraging aggression by bad actors like Putin?"
DeleteHere are some reasons.
1. Trump is unpredictable. Enemies hesitate to start up with him because they don't know what he would do.
2. Trump ordered the military to take out major terrorist leader, General ??. Neither Biden nor Obama did such a thing.
3. Biden paid $6 billion for a handful of hostages. That may have given Hamas the idea the American hostages they took will protect them.
4. Trump cut aid to the Palestinians, because some of that money was going to Hamas. Biden reinstated that aid.
5. Trump has taken a hard line against Iran. Biden has sucked up to Iran. A lot.
I do no understand the logic of @2:33. During Obama's reign, Russia took over Crimea. Under Biden's reign, Russia is mounting a big incursion into Ukraine and has claimed some Ukrainian territory. OTOH during Trump's reign, Russia did NOT attempt to take over any part of Ukraine.
DeleteYet, @2:33 somehow reasons that Trump was worse than Obama and Biden at restraining Putin.
Yes David, Putin took over Crimea during Obama's reign. But Trump then did everything he could to weaken NATO and refused to participate in pressuring Putin to give back Crimea, so Putin consolidated his hold on that area (stolen by force) during Trump's term. He then used that as a springboard to invade again and try to take over more area in Ukraine, which Ukraine resisted militarily (with NATO and US assistance). If Trump had joined the rest of the allies in resisting Putin when he tried to annex Crimea, Putin arguably would not have invaded Ukraine. He wouldn't have had the pretext that parts of Ukraine wanted to be Russian, which he used upon invading. Trump didn't try to restrain Putin. He gave Putin carte blanche.
DeleteWhen Trump weakened the forces resisting Russian aggression, the forces balancing Putin's strength, by removing sanctions, reducing American financial support for NATO, refusing to participate in meetings or uphold agreements with NATO and other countries, threatening Ukraine and withholding military support from Ukraine (with a quid pro quo that got him impeached), Trump set up Ukraine for Russia to invade when Trump was out of office. This was not a new war, but an escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War that began in 2014. Trump helped Putin prepare for that escalation. Had Trump any influence over Putin, he could have negotiation a peace, an end to that war and the return of Crimea to Ukraine.
As to Iran, Biden has tried to restore the nuclear arms treaty and other agreements with Iran that Trump set aside. That isn't sucking up. It is diplomacy with specific goals. And yes, I know that Trump cut humanitarian aid wherever he could find it. That is not a good decision because it hurts people and desperate people become terrorists and support terrorist groups like Hamas.
You keep repeating that Biden gave Iran $6 billion. It has been posted here before that you are incorrect. First, the money is not in Iran's hands -- it is in a South Korean bank and is not under Iran's control. Second, none of that money was released to Iran as of today. Third, it was promised in the form of humanitarian aid (food, medicine) to the Palestinian people, NOT Hamas. That has been rescinded in light of the actions by Hamas. Iran is denying any participation in this action by Hamas and saying they did not fund it. Iran and Hamas do not need to be taught the value of hostages. That is one of the more foolish things in your list.
Meanwhile, the Republicans have not approved nominations to diplomatic positions worldwide, including to the Israeli embassy. How can Republicans justify that? Israel has requested aid and the House is unprepared to vote on the appropriation because it has no speaker. How does that help our support for Israel?
There is no planet on which Trump's actions benefitted the US in our foreign relations. I expect that we may find out soon that Trump shared classified info with Putin that enabled him to harm Israel and support Iran/Hamas in this military effort. When that happens, I doubt you and your ilk will change your minds about Trump's inadequacies as president. You will ignore evidence and explain away malfeasance, just as you are doing today.
David in Cal,
DeleteMy question was: what would Trump have done differently, or how would he have prevented Hamas from attacking Israel?
You cite his unpredictability, which would play out how? A nuclear strike? No.
US Navy Seals into Gaza? No. Air strikes against Gaza? Israel can do these better than we can.
So in concrete terms, Trump's unpredictability translates to nothing.
You say Biden may have given Hamas the idea American hostages would protect them. Hamas has to take into account the actions of Israel, not the US. It is Israel that is now poised to invade them.
And by the way, I believe under Obama we did take out one terrorist leader, I think his name was something like Osama bin Laden.
@7:23 - some of your points don't seem right.
Delete1. You criticize Trump for not participating in pressuring Putin to give back Crimea. I know what kind of pressure would have caused Putin to give back Crimea. Do you know of one?
2. You're technically right the the $6 billion is Iran's money. It's a quibble. BTW, some of that money could be legally taken from Iran could be claimants if people were to sue Iran for damage done by terrorists they supported. Now I'm quibbling.
The reality is that Biden didn't have to return the money now. That huge sum bought us almost nothing -- merely the release of a handful of Americans. (In fact, paying that huge sum may have encouraged the Palestinians to take more Americans being taken hostage.)
If and when the $6 billion is paid, some of it will support terrorism. Even if were possible for us to measure the movement of each dollar, that $6 billion makes other Iranian funds available for terrorism. As the economists say, Money is fungible.
What we should have gotten for that fortune is an iron-clad agreement that permanently prevents Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.
The six billion was also ransom money.
DeleteIt was part of a negotiated release of prisoners by both sides. Ransom is paid with kidnapping. People who are being held by other countries are not necessarily captives in that sense. The Americans released were detained on charges in Iran, whether you believe they were legitimate or manufactured. They claim the same about their prisoners held in the US. That makes the word "ransom" a politically loaded term.
DeleteThe six billion was authorized to be used for humanitarian purposes and was not actually released, so nothing has been paid to date.
If David wanted a nuclear arms deal, he shouldn't have supported Trump, who immediately reneged on the agreement we had in place.
Anonymouse 10:16pm, you are welcome to call it what you wish and I’ll call it what it was.
DeleteI am also fairly sure that when David talks about wanting an arms deal, he means one that has teeth.
I'm so old, I remember last week when killing innocent babies was considered a war crime. You know, before Israel started doing it.
DeleteThe GDP of Iran is currently $360B. 6/360=0.017. A HUGE SUM!!! Also too never delivered but whatever.
Delete"Maybe they just want to spew insults." That's rich, since he quotes Hillary insulting me by calling me a bigot.
ReplyDeleteDavid in Cal - She said maybe you are a bigot. Of all the maybe choices funny you identify as a bigot.
DeleteAre you a MAGA? Are you incapable of changing your views? That’s who she said need deprogramming. Not all conservatives.
Delete“Maybe they don't like migrants. Maybe they don't like gay people or black people or the woman who got the promotion at work they didn't get.”
DeleteAnonymouse 1:56pm, which of these choices absolves you from bigotry?
Here our David makes the familiar transition from bully to crybaby.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:21pm, anonymices are here to pan this blog because you can’t handle a fellow democrat’s critiques.
DeleteThis is a splendid blog. I am an anonymouse.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:09pm, nobody’s perfect.
Delete@1:56 points out that Hillary said
DeleteMAYBE I am a bigot. That's true. IIRC the awful statement she made during the campaign said that half of the Trump supporters were in a basket of deplorables. Somehow, the "maybe" and the "half" don't reduce the sting.
Try it the other way. How would you feel if Trump said, "Half of all liberals are rapists. Or, Maybe liberals support the Ku Klux Klan. Would you feel OK because he said "half" or "maybe"? Of course not. You'd feel deeply insulted.
BTW note that Trump has not insulted the other side the way Hillary did. Trump never said anything like my hypothetical statements above. He criticized some liberal leaders, but not their followers as a group. Noe even half of their followers.
What a huge liar you are David. Try this report:
Deletehttps://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889
"How would you feel if Trump said, 'Half of all liberals are rapists.'"
Delete"They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Look up the travel warnings and restrictions the U.S. government issues to government employees traveling into Mexico.
DeleteQuaker, as you know, Trump's ugly comments were not criticizing Democreats. They were criticizing illegal immigrants.
Delete@7:29 please pay attention. Your link is not about Trump saying objectionable things. It's about people who did bad things saying they did so in support of Trump.
DeleteNo, it is about Trump inviting his supporters to hurt people who are political opponents.
DeleteLegal immigrants, women and minorities are all targeted by Trump and they are part of the Democratic base. But I am getting pretty tired of being called communist and Satanic by the right, with Trump's blessing.
DeleteDavid,
DeleteDo you support all of the things Trump didn't do to make legal immigration easier?
Hillary Clinton is an optimist. Anyone who isn't a bigot, or isn't perfectly fine with bigotry, left the Republican Party almost two dozen years ago.
DeleteIf the communist, socialist, child mutilating democrats who kill babies after they were born, they place them on the bed, and ask how do you want the baby to die. Also too, only one party has fully adopted Newt's proper opponent phrasing: https://propagandacritic.com/index.php/propaganda-examples/newts-name-calling-words/
DeleteYou live in a weird bubble.
David in Cal is certainly no bigot, he just votes for them.
DeleteThe red not a cult hears an insane man ramble about a giant valve in northern CA that takes all day to open and the child mutilating dems won't open it to save a fish. But as President he will open it so rich people in Beverly Hills will stop stinking as they could take real showers, forest fires will stop as the water will be used to dampen them, and the entire central valley will be green. And the crowd applauds this gibberish. But don't you dare call them a cult, such bad manners.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thefp.com/p/this-is-what-decolonization-looks
ReplyDeleteThe Republicans have nominated Jim Jordan for Speaker of the House.
ReplyDeleteNo rational person can understand why people support Trump. You cannot have a rational discussion with them.
ReplyDeleteHow about a voter who held this view:
Delete“Abortion is a moral abomination akin to slavery. Every other issue is as nothing compared to the endless slaughter of innocent human life. I’ll vote for anyone who will try to stop this absolute evil.”
Can you, a self-professed rational person, understand why a person who held this view might vote for Trump?
I don't see many parallels between slavery and abortion. This is like saying a rock is like a sheep, without pointing out how they are alike.
DeleteAnd don't forget that Trump was formerly pro-abortion, not that long ago, and has admitted to paying for abortion in the past. He is also not religious and doesn't hold a specific opinion about when abortion should legally occur and when be banned or about when life begins. Further, he lies and doesn't keep his election promises. So, no, I don't see why this would convince an abortion foe to support him, unless they were poorly informed or stupid. And that isn't what "rational" means to me.
Is Clinton wrong in her speculation as to why Trump still enjoys support from so many voters?
ReplyDeleteMaybe, maybe not. However, I rarely see anyone advance a different argument that holds any water. His rallies are an endless recitation of imagined grievances against anyone who isn't loudly on his side.
"an endless recitation of imagined grievances against anyone who isn't loudly on his side."
DeleteLook who's talking!
What grievances has Quaker recited? A facile quip isn't an actual comment -- just making negative noise at people who don't deserve it.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:06pm, no, the Anonymouse made a pointed remark as to irony that Quaker is a part of a posse that daily engages in “an endless recitation of imagined grievances against anyone who isn't loudly on his [their] side."
DeleteAnd yes, you and Quaker deserve that comment.
So reciting endless imagined grievances didn't get Cecelia to vote for a Democrat.
DeleteIt's almost as if all Cecelia really cares about is the Republican Party's support for bigotry and white supremacy. Without the "It's almost as if" part.
Quaker, IMO one doesn't have to speculate about some hidden or evil reason why some people support Trump. Here are two valid reasons to support Trump:
ReplyDelete1. Successful Presidency
2. Outstanding orator.
1. I don't want to get into lists of things one way or the other. I simply point out that one can reasonably believe that Trump's Presidency was more successful than Obama's or Biden's.
2. People who hate Trump can't understand how skillful he is as a speaker. He is a marvelous speaker, and he's excellent as speaking without notes. He has a terrific sense of humor, which his enemies are incapable of understanding. Trump's speeches are entertaining.
Of course his speeches are full of untrue statements. However, these statements are generally in the direction of the point he wants to make. His audience understands his speech that way. E.g., he may give some specific large number for a certain item, which is not the actual number. What he means is that the item he's describing is very large. His audience understands that this is what he means.
As an actuary, I dislike Trump carelessness about numbers. However, I am aware that many people are not tuned into numbers the way I am. What many people grasp is that something is big or very big or small.
Trump is an outstanding orator only if you don't listen to the words.
DeleteHistorians have already spoken and called Trump the worst president ever, so any idea that his presidency was successful is pure fantasy.
People who dislike Trump understand that he is telling lies and not making sense. Trump's followers either don't get that or they don't care. That is NOT being an outstanding orator. It is being a con artist. He isn't only wrong about his numbers, but about whether they are big or not, such as his crowd estimates and his election vote totals. These are just lies, not approximations of something true.
Numbers are large or small depending on the circumstances. Large if you are requesting a bank loan and small if you are paying taxes. I guess, then, that representative of monetary value, numbers can be large and small simultaneously! Lots of people don't understand this. We can't all be actuaries. But wait a minute, here's a large number: 8.2 trillion. As in dollars. As in Donald Trump's contribution to the national debt, 1917-1921. Here's a smaller number:1.84 trillion dollars. Biden's contribution from 2021 through June 2023. Hey, I've got an idea, party of fiscal conservatism and widespread panic over the debt ceiling: let's re-elect the one guy whose administration did more in 4 years to trash the national debt than that of any other president in modern history. By a long shot. But note that I am not blaming all of this on Trump alone, insofar as it required a Republican Congress to enthusiastically endorse his monumentally stupid tax bill. But that's history and certainly nothing to dwell on while we bask in adulation over his albeit widely misunderstood sense of humor and marvelous powers of oration.
DeleteOh, yeah, one more thing: A little while back, DIC explained that his purpose here is that of a missionary aiming to convert the obtuse thinkers on the left end of the spectrum to a more enlightened mindset such as it is over where the likes of DJT and his minions hold sway. That being the case, it would behoove the Oracle from California to transition away from unsupportable opinions to a position supported by facts, without which abject failure will continue to plague his efforts.
DeleteCorrection: post 1:08 am. That is 2017-2021 for DJT's reign.
Delete"Outstanding orator"
DeleteThis is what they said about Hitler, right David?
Just remember, "Jews will not replace us".
DeleteIt's not that he is an "outstanding orator", David.
It's just that he occasionally speaks the truth, while 99.5% of the pols do not, evah. And that's one of the reasons why the deep state clowns hate him so much.
Trump had some good ideas, but he took them too far.
DeleteI agree with unamused that Trump should be faulted for his enormous deficits.
Delete8:33,
DeleteI still prefer Presidents who aren't Putin's bitch.
“ Bob has a dead-on perspective as to our media and chattering class”
ReplyDeleteOf course a right winger would say this. Somerby now routinely labels the New York Times and Washington Post and MSNBC “blue tribe” media. 25 years ago, he knew enough to denounce the idea that these entities were “liberal.” But it’s convenient for him now to contradict himself, so he can ascribe anything that appears in them to the “liberals”, unless it’s David Brooks and his know nothing ilk, whom Somerby now approvingly quotes when they chide liberals.
mh - I share this opinion of Somerby’s perspective, and I assure you I’m no conservative.
DeleteAnd has it occurred to you that maybe Somerby’s critique has evolved over 25 years? Back then, the mainstream media were crucifying Clinton, Gore, and Clinton. Now, after Trump, the media has separated into two silos.
Somerby also regularly admonishes the chattering classes for not chattering about Trump’s mental illness. Our resident right wing commenters don’t seem to agree with Somerby’s assessment of Trump. He also claims to believe that Tucker Carlson is “disordered”, rather than a) a true believer or b) in it for the gazillion dollars. Again, our right wing commenters seem to disagree with this assessment as well. And he only admonishes the mainstream media for not discussing Trump’s mental illness. The right wing media can spread propaganda and lies, and get slapped with hundreds of millions of dollars in fines, with zzzzzzz… from Somerby. So, I tend to dispute his current assessment of the media.
ReplyDeletemh, you mean you don’t like Somerby because he criticizes the mainstream media, rather than solely focusing on Fox.
DeleteWhereas, I agree with Bob’s assessment of the media, and don’t care if he pillages Trump and Tucker (Bob makes some salient points as to both men) or that he routinely dismisses Fox as a total clown show (he’s got some facts on his side there, as well).
You don’t want a blogger, you want a hand puppet.
Bronze-age, huh? Sounds like the old Catholic smears against non-Christians are alive in this one.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible, despite all the whining about The Good, that people are just full of it and like the drama and violence? That everyone is just doing what they actually want, and that it just looks problematic to neurotics who internalized Sunday School lies?
Debrief:
ReplyDeleteFanny van der Faart, civilian.
What if the Israelis tried to defend themselves with a bronze dome? Not so good, huh? Nothing less than an iron dome will do. So we’re not going back to the Bronze Age.
ReplyDeleteLouise Glück, author of “Triumph of Achilles”, has died.
ReplyDeleteHere’s Louise:
Deletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzIfbANwQg
What are the Republicans going to do? Make a good faith argument? That's a risk no one should be worried to take.
ReplyDeleteHorrifying
ReplyDeleteAmerican news broadcaster NBC published documents on Saturday recovered from Hamas terrorists killed in southern Israel that show detailed plans to target children and young people from Sa'ad, a religious kibbutz in the Negev desert.
The documents included everything from maps specifying the location of kindergartens and schools, plans for how many to kill and take hostage, as well as detailed escape plans.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-768239
All's fair in love and war.
DeleteNot true, doofus.
DeleteIt is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.
DeleteWilliam Tecumseh Sherman
Hard to argue with a guy who wanted to burn the American South to the ground.
Delete