Supplemental: Anchored in eagerly taking offense!

SATURDAY, AUGUST 22, 2015

A fascinating Kevin Drum post:
Like you, we thought of the old Carter Family hit, Anchored in Love:

The tempest is over, I'm safe evermore
What gladness, what rapture is mine
The danger is past, I'm anchored at last
I'm anchored in love divine.


For the hit recording, with complete lyrics, click here.

We thought of that famous old hit when we read a fascinating post by Kevin Drum. Also, when read the fascinating comments his post occasioned.

For our money, Drum began with a slightly peculiar question. Basically, he wanted to know why the term “anchor baby” is offensive:
DRUM (8/21/15): I'm curious about something. Last night I read a longish piece at TNR by Gwyneth Kelly titled “Why ‘Anchor Baby’ Is Offensive.” I was actually sort of curious about that, so I read through it. But all the article did was provide a bit of history about the term and quote a bunch of people saying it was disgusting and dehumanizing. There was no explanation of why it’s offensive.

Don't everyone pile on me at once. If you don't ask, you can't learn, right? So I guess my question is this. Is “anchor baby” offensive because:

*It riles up xenophobia over something that doesn't actually happen very much.
or
*There's something about the term itself that's obnoxious.

I'm probably going to regret asking this. But I am curious. It's not obvious from first principles what the problem is here.
Why did we think that presentation was a bit peculiar? Here’s why:

For himself, Drum didn’t seem to know why the term in question is offensive. But when he posed his question to readers, he offered them only two options.

They could judge the term offensive for Reason A. Or they could judge the term offensive for Reason B. He didn’t offer them a third option:

Maybe the term isn’t offensive at all, or isn’t all that offensive.

Do you see the possible oddness there? As we read his post, it didn’t seem obvious to Drum, coming in, that the term in question actually is offensive.

He read the piece at TNR. But he found no attempt at explanation, just irate statements that the term is offensive.

He then asked his readers to explain what makes the term offensive, saying this: “It’s not obvious from first principles what the problem is here.”

Are we reading that post correctly? In our reading, Drum doesn’t know why the term is offensive, but he simply accepts the claim that it is. To our ear, that’s the way a great deal of our modern “liberal” discourse works.

Here’s the problem as we see it. We’re not sure that familiar approach is especially smart or constructive. We’re not sure it produces results.

We were fascinated by Drum’s post, and by the explanations it occasioned. In our view, a great deal of modern “liberal” politics is captured in that one short post.

Anchored in love for the whole human race, we’ll consider it further next week.

82 comments:

  1. Are we reading that post correctly?

    I don't read it the way Bob does. I don't think Drum is automatically assuming the term "anchor baby" is offensive. I think Drum is implicitly asking:

    (For those who think the term "anchor baby" is offensive) why do you think it's offensive?

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    1. Somerby is complaining because Drum offered only two alternatives as potential answers to his question. No matter how you quibble about the wording there are usually more than two alternative answers to most questions.

      If you don't read Drum regularly, perhaps you are unaware that he frequently poses these sorts of questions, with a pair of suggested responses. It is annoying because it tends to constrain (or shape) the discussion that ensues in comments.

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    2. "Somerby is complaining because Drum offered only two alternatives....."

      You only offered one explanation for Somerby's complaints.

      If you don't read Somerby regularly perhaps you don't notice this commenter not only defends Somerby constantly but also seems to use his modifiers.

      "It is annoying because" Drum is trying to shape or constrain discussion, unlike Somerby, when he tells his readers:

      "Can you see what happened there? Let us explain what you’ll see if you watch the tape of this segment."

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    3. Bob has every right. Come with the territory.

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    4. KZ (@1:33) thinks that similar actions are equivalent, even when done in different contexts, because the action is the same. By his reasoning, spitting in a urinal would be the same as spitting in a baptismal font or someone's beer.

      When Somerby complains about the choices (or lack thereof) offered by Drum KZ thinks the problem is limited choice and thinks Somerby is a hypocrite for ever having limited a choice and I am one too for offering one possibility. Never mind that the specifics of the choices, their content, was being criticized. Limiting is limiting and it is either always right or always wrong. Poor sad KZ.

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    5. You are right. Limiting choices at Mother Jones is like spitting in someone's beer. Directing thought at the Howler is like flushing a urinal.

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    6. I thought Somerby was complaining because Drum acts like a liberal in his discourse.

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    7. I think Somerby is complaining because

      a) Drum doesn’t know why the term is offensive and

      b) Somerby doesn't know if he read Drum's post correctly.

      If b) applied to me I wouldn't write a post about it. And if I did, I wouldn't ask my readers questions about it because they believe I don't read comments at my blog.

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  2. The term is offensive because it implies the parents come here to use the birth of their baby to gain special privileges or advantages for themselves. They can't.

    Bob Somerby is a lazy, dumb, and morally questionable pseudo-liberal who wades into topics about which he is woefully ignorant.

    "Trump claims that birthright citizenship must end because it’s the “biggest magnet for illegal immigration”— it attracts illegal immigrants using their “anchor babies” to reap the benefits of U.S. citizenship. In fact, being the undocumented parent of a U.S. citizen bestows no legal right to even be in the country, let alone to a green card or citizenship—just ask the thousands of undocumented parents deported and barred from the U.S. each day by the Department of Homeland Security. The law requires that to sponsor an undocumented parent for a green card a child must first reach the age of 21. But at that point—more than two decades after arrival—an undocumented parent who entered illegally is not eligible to apply for a green card in the U.S. The parent must leave and apply abroad. And once the parent departs the U.S., another part of the law bans his or her return for 10 years.

    The “magnet” to which Trump refers is an arduous 31-year-long slog to legal status for the undocumented parent: 21 years for the child to be able to sponsor the parent and 10 years of banishment from the U.S. because of their previously unlawful presence."

    From a real journalist's blog.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/immigration-lawyer-birthright-citizenship

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    1. The conditions surrounding immigration issues are offensive for a variety of reasons.

      The term "anchor baby" is offensive because it imposes a stigma on an innocent child for actions that it had no control over whatsoever. In that sense, it is like the term "bastard" referring to a child born out of wedlock. The child did nothing to be born out of wedlock (or in the USA in the current case), but it is stigmatized by that term because of actions of parents. A less harsh version is "love child."

      During the 60's people stopped stigmatizing children for their birth conditions. It wasn't fair to the kids and it tended to blight their lives and future opportunities to be labeled that way. Use of the term "anchor baby" revives that harmful practice. The baby did nothing wrong in being born. It is unfair to punish kids for the actions of their parents. It is wrong to blight the future opportunities of such kids.

      Using "anchor baby" as a shorthand term to refer to the entire immigration problem is muddled thinking. I think that's what people at TNR and Drum's readers were doing. It may be what Trump and the candidates are doing -- not sure because they are fully capable of blaming these kids for what their parents did.

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    2. From Drum's comments section:

      "SpecialNewb • a day ago

      It's kinda insulting to insinuate youre so rapacious as to purposefully get pregnant and have a kid just so you can stay in the US. It suggests you see the child as a legal boon, not someone to love. In a more family oriented culture that's very hurtful."

      And this one:

      Ryan > Nondescript • a day ago

      ...It's implying an abusive relationship where a child was purposefully born into an unstable legal position solely for the mother's benefit. And I might add, it does so through some awful imagery (am I the only one who pictures a baby literally being used as an anchor?)

      It also seems to suggest we shouldn't worry so much about keeping these families together. Why, they're generally bad parents anyway! But if we do wind up screwing innocent children over through our immigration policy, well, that's the bad parents' fault too."

      Talking about children being born for legal purposes brought to my mind the age-old process of having a child in order to pass on wealth or inherited titles. The term for that is "heir" and the children are clearly being used as a vehicle for their parents purposes. I always found the British reference to the royal princes as "the heir and the spare" offensive. Now I know why.

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    3. 11:51 AM supports their position first by fulfilling the self-imposed requirement to always be obnoxious when representing liberalism:

      [QUOTE] Bob Somerby is a lazy, dumb, and morally questionable pseudo-liberal who wades into topics about which he is woefully ignorant. [END QUOTE]

      How about a ballpark figure 11:51 AM as to, all told, how many energetic, bright, morally upstanding actual-liberals are there in America lo these four score and three years since Father New Deal was elected? I take it you are here to let everyone know you are among the tiny sect of the all together righteous and you will always, first and foremost, protect the value of your medallion (or as you might otherwise state it: Voters? We don't need no stinkin' voters").

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    6. Can the problem really be us: Can it possibly be that the problem is actually us?

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    7. anon 11:23 there is no "the" problem" there are lots of problems, "us" being one of them.

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    8. Plainly, yes—the problem is also us. We’re dumb and tribal and filled with loathing and pretty much nobody likes us.

      We’re dumb and tribal and filled with expansive self-regard. For these reasons, nobody likes us. We can’t think why anyone should.

      How dumb can we be in the liberal world?

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    ReplyDelete
  4. Getting my husband back with the help of professional love spell .Dr Brave ??

    I'm very excited sharing this amazing testimony about how i save my marriage and get my husband back today, My name is Becky Miller , I live in Los Angeles, California, I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelldrbrave.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Brave ,{ bravespellcaster@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Brave, i will always be testifying about your good work.

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    Replies
    1. Becky -- your husband left you because you called him an anchor baby!

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  5. It's Maddow's fault.

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    1. We expect to discuss your status as her broken down toy all next week. After we postpone those statistics from the Washington Post on police shootings.

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  7. A follow-up from Drum:

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/anchor-babies

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    1. Drum doesn't think Boomer is a slur.

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    2. Uncle Drum doubts Anchor Baby is a slur because he is a white male boomer. Kinda like Uncle Bob. .

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  8. YMMV, but I read Somerby here as saying again what he often says: "We liberals, we refuse to know ourselves. Some of what people who don't like us say about us seems to be true. The way we act, we often reinforce stereotypes that mock liberals."

    In this case, if I'm right, Somerby is saying "Hey, we really are sometimes knee-jerk politically correct. We say, 'oh yes, let's not be offensive by saying such-and-such' -- even when we have no idea why."

    It seems like small potatoes, to me. And I doubt Drum's embrace of political correctness (if we just grant that arguable premise for a moment) is going to be the thing that alienates anyone from voting Democratic.

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    1. What you seem to be saying, in our view, is that Bob is complaining that we liberals are the problem now. We are lazy, dumb, and of dubious morals.

      If that is what he means, why doesn't he just come right out and say it? The truth hurts but if it will make us a credit to our ideology, we need to bow our heads and try harder until we can pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. We are better off here than we were back in Eastern Europe.

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    2. No,
      Somerby has been saying that you and only you are the problem. We are all waiting for you to clean up your act.

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    3. I have never worn clown shoes a day in my life.

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    4. Insert Balls Here, TrollAugust 22, 2015 at 4:50 PM

      When you weakly ape a writer's style, hoping to pass it off as satire, you are indeed lazy.

      When you can't tell the difference between "a" problem and "the" problem, you are indeed dumb.

      When for the sake of your need to troll, you merely pretend you can't tell the difference, you are indeed of dubious morals.

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    5. Good. For a minute I thought all those traits meant I was a liberal. Glad to know its not genetic in my case.

      But please do keep in mind it is genetic before you decide if and where to drop your anchor, baby.

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    6. Polls at this point are meaningless.

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    7. Hey, ITB,H is it really the weak style that bothers you about 3:52? Can we talk? We liberals are an ungodly mess. Our astonishing tribal pride keeps us from noting this obvious fact. We’re lazy and dumb and nobody likes us! That is not satire.

      Correct me if I am wrong.

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    8. I like your new high pitched voice, 9:44!

      You really *are* a different person now than you were at 3:52.

      The dogs ate your jewels.

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  9. Today Arianna Huffington is running an article about Clinton's campaign that is accompanied by a photo of the back of her head.

    The current anti-Clinton meme is that her campaign is faltering, despite there being no evidence the full blown attack on her is having much impact. Last week they tried accusing her of having no vision, but that got no traction. Then there was the story about the dying woman who asked that people pledge not to vote for Hillary, in lieu of flowers at her funeral.

    Huffington Post is her own personal propaganda machine, the way Hearst used his papers. And people pretend she is a liberal too.

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    1. @4:21

      Huffy being part of the corporate media doesn't make her any less of a liberal. Neither does her criticism of HRC. If you strip the liberal credentials of all true believer liberals who have a taste of bile in their throats whenever HRC appears on the scene the only liberals left would be Brock, Carville, Begala and Howlers like yourself.

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    2. You don't seem to follow any polls.

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    3. You're cute too.

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    4. I found nine photos of Clinton on the Front Page and the Politics Page of Huffington Post. None were of the back of her head. Perhaps if you would rotate yours back to its original setting the perspective would change.

      Plus

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    5. Huffington is the kind of person who knows what's best for us all and is willing to break rules and cross the line to achieve her vision. Kind of like the republicans, Nixon, Reagan, Cheneybush, Ollie North.

      Relax, darlings, Mother Arianna knows what's best for you, and she don't approve of Clinton.

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    6. @mm

      Huffy didn't even know what was best for her as her former hubby played for the other team. Breaking rules is sine qua non to HRC. Why would you consider that a liability for anyone else?

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    7. Looks like they took it down. There is still a story about her campaign being "in the barrel" whatever that means. It was the main photo and headline on the home page. Maybe it confused readers.

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    8. Do you see the possible oddness there?

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  10. In a free country anyone has the right to be offended. Explaining the actual objection to what they consider offensive is when they may reveal the true objective in removing a term from the lexicon. In this case, the term accurately describes a process. The fact the term may be considered ineffable to some makes the term discordant, not invalid.

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    1. Anchor baby doesn't refer to a process. It refers to a type of baby. Birth tourism refers to a kind of tourism, which might be considered a process. Jeb Bush asked for a better term. I like the response "citizen" since that's what so-called anchor babies are. It angers me that someone would try to create second-class categories of citizenship for children like anchor babies, who did nothing to deserve being treated as substandard Americans.

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    2. "In this case, the term accurately describes a process."

      Can you explain the process and how the term accurately describes it?

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    3. cicero must be taking his thumbs out for an evening stroll to clear his mind and collect his thoughts.

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    4. The phrase describes the process where the illegal alien intends for their child to be born in the USA, whereupon that child's 14th Amendment guaranteed citizenship anchors that child's family in the USA. Now CNN's Smirking Smerconish opines that some Hispanics say the term means the parent "dropped an anchor here just to have a baby." That appraisal of the term is nonsensical in English and Spanish.

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    5. Both explanations are equally nonsensical. There are stories of teens living in Mexico finding out they are American citizens as they contemplate college. There are similar stories of kids who assumed they were American, finding out they are not citizens at college age. Either way it is a shock.

      The overwhelming majority of pregnant women have their babies where they currently live, regardless of their citizenship status. They don't get on a donkey and try to find a manger as their due date approaches. They want to be with family and friends. This bizarre and cold hearted fantasy of conservatives makes no sense at all. There isn't even any evidence anyone besides the child obtains any advantage in the immigration process. That may be why the Hispanic definition has none of the elements hypothesized by conservatives.

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    7. By Daniel Gonzalez, The Arizona Republic
      Updated 8/17/2011

      "Hundreds of expectant women from Mexico come to Arizona every year specifically to deliver babies at hospitals near the border. Some are in the country illegally. But many others are women of means who enter the country legally as tourists and pay cash to deliver babies at hospitals in Nogales, Yuma and Tucson.

      In addition to medical care that is perceived to be better in the U.S., the mothers receive an added benefit: Their babies automatically become U.S. citizens

      In 2008, slightly more than 7,400 children were born in the U.S. to non-citizens who said they lived outside the country, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. The figure was the most recent available. The number includes children born to women studying at U.S. universities, international visitors as well as so-called birth tourists.

      It does not include a much larger number of children born to undocumented parents residing in the U.S., which supporters of limiting birthright citizenship also point to as a problem. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 350,000 children with at least one undocumented parent residing in the U.S. were born in the U.S. in 2009. That is about 8 percent of all births that year."

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    8. cicero, the child's birth in the US makes the child a US citizen. Under current law that does nothing to provide an anchor to the US for the parents for 21 to 31 years. All can be deported. If the family wants to give the child up to be raised by a relative or friend or for adoption, the child can stay but the parents have no right to do so.

      Intention is not a process any more than inaccurate facts are truths just because they are believed and repeated.

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    9. Let's see what tiny brain cicero figures the rest of us won't.

      Let's start with the headline on the article he cites by Daniel Gonzalez:

      'Birth tourism' not a widespread practice in U.S., data show

      What? The article is about Birth Tourism? Not Anchor Babies?

      And what do we find below that set of statistics?

      "By comparison, birth tourism is a much smaller issue. Although up nearly 50 percent since 2000, the 7,462 children are still just a tiny fraction of the 4,255,156 babies born in the U.S. that year."

      And guess what, the term "anchor baby" is nowhere to be found in the article.

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    10. cicero,
      Anybody can want to deport 11 million people. Asking them how they'll pay for it reveals their true objective. They're racists.

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    11. Suppose some candidate ran on a platform of capturing and prosecuting all murderers. I think that's not a realistic goal. But, it's not radical or extreme or racist to want to enforce a law. So, what's wrong with wanting to enforce the law against illegal immigration?

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    12. @9:20

      Here is a 2006 article where "anchor baby" is mentioned several times.

      "An online CNN poll linked to the network's coverage of the Arellano story showed 93 percent of respondents opposing the proposition that "anchor babies" should immunize a parent from deportation"

      http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-08-17/news/0608170077_1_elvira-arellano-arrest-and-deportation-rosa-parks

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  11. Picnic Locations in GurgaonAugust 22, 2015 at 11:21 PM

    Amazing blog and very interesting stuff you got here! I definitely learned a lot from reading through some of your earlier posts as well: "conservatives often know more than we liberals do about the basic facts of various matters!" was one of your best.

    I decided to drop a comment on this one!

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  12. Can you hear “a fire-bell in the night?” I think I can. I think I can. I knew I could.

    ReplyDelete
  13. IMHO offensiveness, as assigned by the PC Police, is related to the ranking or status of the group, within the hierarchy of victims.

    African-Americans rank high, so anything the least bit questionable is offensive. During one Olympics, the TV announcer was reduced to describing Surya Bonaly as a "French African-American." Using the word, "niggardly" is offensive.

    Native Americans have also given this exalted status. The term "Indian" has been deemed offensive, for no good reason.

    Gays and other sexual minorities now have similar high status.

    So, IMHO the effort to demonize the phrase "Anchor Baby" is related to an effort to give illegal immigrants high victim status, similar to the groups mentioned above.

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    1. This item illustrates how sexual minorities' high victim status makes ordinary, lighthearted comments non-PC:

      Comedian Bill Burr is facing some online backlash after joking on Conan about Bruce Jenner’s transition to Caitlyn Jenner.

      Burr joked to O’Brien Thursday night about the amount of press coverage Jenner has received for the transition, wondering aloud whether Bruce deliberated going “with a D cup or something a little more perky.”

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    2. You're trying to rile up the rubes. No one is biting. You may want to take it somewhere else, where people actually care...

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    3. Sorry Dave, I do see 1968 was a year in which smart-assery took something of a hit. [LINK]

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    4. We could take this further: "African-Americans have a higher proclivity for crime and violence than the rest of the population at large."

      This is such a dog-whistle statement, the word "proclivity" itself has been all but removed from the lexicon simply by association or opportunity to be linked to this very subject. Despite this being a basic statement of easily-verified fact, its mere utterance may only be conducted through anonymous message boards without facing the consequences of losing one's career and living in exile.

      The truth behind the statement, as a result of the overwhelmingly protective response for the subjects of it, has been completely disappeared from any discourse on society and civilization in any part of the world. Instead it is replaced with statements decrying the unearned privilege of non-black non-criminals.

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    1. Sit on a firecracker, Elizabeth Fletcher!

      Delete

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  16. “Happiness, Love is the key to LIFE”.

    Greeting be unto Dr. Ukaka the great man and ever, my name is Silvia Quelal from California. since 6 months I have witness what is called heart broken. my boyfriend that promised me marriage failed me and impregnate me and leave,he dump me,he stop calling" he stop picking my calls,and he no longer respond to me. I have be looking for solution,I fall into the hands of fake spell caster,they rough me off and took my money without help.I have cried,I have weep"and tears runs out of eyes. The silentness in my heart brought me to the deepest path of failure that I lost my job. Crying all day,because of my life was lonely. So thanks to Ukaka that came into my life and brought me the greatest joy that was lost. I saw his mail while browsing and I contact and tell him what I am passing through with no doubt because what saw about him,was enough to believe. And I was given words of solution on what to do. I can't really help thinking about it I have tried to see what I can do, I manage to provide him some materials and he help me with the rest,after casting the spell, 12hrs later he came with rose on his hand and I was even about going out,i saw him in front of my door when he sees me he knee and said he is dying I should forgive him and accept him back he was crying,I can't wait to let him finish I quickly crab him and kiss him, just then" he said he is restless without me, just as the prophet has said he will be. He brought out a ring and put it on my hand. Our wedding day was scheduled,1week after we got married. today makes it 2weeks and we are living happily I don't know how to praise him enough, he has done me a thing I can never forget. And I can't really share to myself alone, I want y'all to help me praise him because if it is wasn't for him I already plan of committing suicide. But right now I am now so happy more than I was before. And you out there crying for help you've already got one,Ukaka is the man that you need in all rampart. contact his address if you need his service, freedomlovespell@hotmail.com also contact him on his web site: freedomlovespelltemple.yolasite.com

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  17. Bob writes his blog to expose scripting in the media, among other things. Why does he not see that the controversy over the artificially assigned emotional encumbrance of the term "Anchor Baby" is the NORMAL following of the script?
    This brouhaha is just another wedge issue.

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  18. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  19. OFF TOPIC, but here's a post some of the regulars around here might want to read [LINK].

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    1. @CMike,

      From your link:

      "Yes, the son of real estate millionaire Fred Trump is, according to Dowd, the champion of ordinary Americans in the battle to wrest control of the Republic from 'entitled families"

      Good thing HRC net worth of $141 million doesn't disqualify her as a soldier in the war against entitled families.

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  20. My heart is filled with love and happiness because my husband is back to me after a divorce with the help of a genuine spell caster .My name is Becky Miller , I live in California,USA. I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelldrbrave.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Brave ,{ bravespellcaster@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Brave, i will always be testifying about your good work, and for any questions call me on +1(575) 779-6197.

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  21. My heart is filled with love and happiness because my husband is back to me after a divorce with the help of a genuine spell caster .My name is Becky Miller , I live in California,USA. I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelldrbrave.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Brave ,{ bravespellcaster@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Brave, i will always be testifying about your good work, and for any questions call me on +1(575) 779-6197.

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  22. How To Get Your Lost Husband Back

    “LOVE is the key to LIFE”. That was the word from Dr Ukaka when I consulted his powerful Love Temple. I married the wrong man; I realized that after four years of our unfruitful marriage. Everything was going from Best to Worst in our life, no child, I got demoted from work after our marriage, my husband was sacked a year after. His application for new job in various offices was constantly declined even though he was qualified enough. I was made to take care of my family with the low income I earn get that wasn’t enough to pay our rent. We keep praying a seeking for help from some people, my friends laugh at me behind because I was advised not to get married yet.It was one Thursday night that my husband woke me up and told me that has thought enough about our crisis, he said that our crisis is not ordinary and it’s beyond our spiritual level. He suggested we should consult Dr Ukaka from testimonies he showed me online about how he has been helping families. I was afraid, I don’t like evil or spell but I supported him to contact him if he can help us. We consulted him via freedomlovespell@hotmail.com and he replied positively after 20munites with congratulating email that he can help us but he will need our pure heart and trusts in his work if he will cast the spell on us and purify our life. We agreed to his terms. He cast the spell and told us to expect results within 5days. I waited for three days nothing happened, so I started having doubt and blaming my husband for emailing Dr Ukaka. It was on the fifth day that my husband was called for an interview and he got a well-paying work, I was prompted to a higher position. I missed my period on the 5th day and it was confirmed that I am with a baby. Things have really changed for us for good and we now have our own house and cars. I will never forget what Dr Ukaka told us “LOVE is the key to LIFE”, this word keep me going. People that laughed at us are coming close for help and I am delighted to welcome them because my family is now blessed. Dr Ukaka is a savior and man that keep to his word even when I doubted his powers at the end of the spell. Thank you great Dr Ukaka and your Oracle for helping us via freedomlovespell@hotmail.com and I will keep spreading this message to people in need of help. also contact him for help.website address: freedomlovespelltemple.yolasite.com ;

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  23. My Husband divorce me for no reason for 9 months and i tried all I could to have him back because I really love him so much but all my effort did not work out,My name is Becky Miller, I live in California,USA. I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with three kids. A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past 9 months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website { http://lovespelldrbrave.weebly.com/. } if you have any problem contact Dr Brave ,{ bravespellcaster@gmail.com }, thanks you Dr Brave, i will always be testifying about your good work, and for any questions call me on +1(575) 779-6197.

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  24. An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my husband back to me.. My name is Isabel Walker,i live in Barcelona Spain,and I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster DR OWOLABI whom he visited.{owolabispellcasters@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so DR OWOLABI spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same DR OWOLABI through his email owolabispellcasters@gmail.com,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to the DR OWOLABI for bringing back my husband ,and brought great joy to my family once again. Thanks to DR OWOLABI (owolabispellcasters@gmail.com).

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  25. My Wife divorce me for no reason, Thanks to Dr Dr.jarto for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again, My name is Perez Mark. i live in USA Washington Dc, I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(Dr.jartospellcaster@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same web site: http://Dr.jartosp.blogspot.co.uk/,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr Dr.jarto for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again. { Dr.jartospellcaster@gmail.com }, Thanks you Dr Dr.jarto, i will always be testifying about your good work.This spell is a 100% Guarantee for your situation.

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  26. HOW I GOT MY HUSBAND BACK AFTER HE LEFT ME FOR ANOTHER WOMAN..!!
    My name is Marina Williams, I am a UK citizen, 48 years Old. I reside here in London United Kingdom.My residential address is as follows, 43 Stephen Road, Bexleyheath DA7 6EF United Kingdom, I have been in bondage, passing through pains, sorrow, heart broke, ever since my Husband left me for another woman, It was really hell for me and everybody told me to forget about him but i could not because i love him so much,I cried and sobbed every day, until it got so bad that I reached out to the Internet for help. And i saw a testimony of a spell caster who help a girl called cynthia get her ex boyfriend back, and i said let me give it a try,but I never believe because i thought all spell caster are fake,so i decided to contact him for help and he cast a love spell for me which i use in getting my Husband back and now i am a happy woman. For what you have done for me,i will not stop to share your goodness to people out there for the good work you are doing. Once again thank you Dr Frank Ojo You are truly talented and gifted. If you need his help you can reach him on his email address: Templeofloveandprosperity@gmail.com , i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband.Try the Dr Frank Ojo today he we be the key or answer to your problem. Here's his contact email address: { Templeofloveandprosperity@gmail.com } Website address: http://lovespell2.yolasite.com, His Mobile number: +234)80- 7237-0762, i give you 100% guarantee that he will help you.!!

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