THURSDAY, MARCH 14, 2024
...the planet's least plausible claim? Did Aaron Rodgers ever believe the planet's least plausible claim?
In a new statement posted today, Rodgers has seemed to say that no, he never did. On the other side of the ledger, we direct you to a partially first-person report by Jake Tapper and Deborah Brown of CNN.
According to the CNN report, Rodgers once said he believed that least plausible claim. He believed that the murders at Sandy Hook were a hoax—or at least, so CNN says:
CNN knows of two people with whom Rodgers has enthusiastically shared these stories, including with Pamela Brown, one of the journalists writing this piece.
Brown was covering the Kentucky Derby for CNN in 2013 when she was introduced to Rodgers, then with the Green Bay Packers, at a post-Derby party. Hearing that she was a journalist with CNN, Rodgers immediately began attacking the news media for covering up important stories. Rodgers brought up the tragic killing of 20 children and 6 adults by a gunman at Sandy Hook Elementary School, claiming it was actually a government inside job and the media was intentionally ignoring it.
When Brown questioned him on the evidence to show this very real shooting was staged, Rodgers began sharing various theories that have been disproven numerous times.
[...]
Brown recalls Rodgers asking her if she thought it was off [sic] that there were men in black in the woods by the school, falsely claiming those men were actually government operatives. Brown found the encounter disturbing.
Rodgers, through one of his agents, declined to comment to CNN.
CNN has spoken to another person with a similar story. This person, to whom CNN has granted anonymity so as to avoid harassment, recalled that several years ago, Rodgers claimed, “Sandy Hook never happened…All those children never existed. They were all actors.”
When asked about the grieving parents, the source recalled Rodgers saying, “They’re all making it up. They’re all actors.”
For the record:
If the murdered children never existed, we don't know what it would mean to say that they were actors.
That part of the story is a bit hard to parse. That said, that anonymous source also claims that Rodgers said the parents of the murdered children were just "crisis actors" too.
(For the record, also this: We'll guess that the word "off" in that passage may be an unnoticed typo. If "off" should really be the word "odd," the passage would seem to make more sense.)
At any rate, can this claim about Rodgers possibly be true? In an instant rebuttal, he has seemed to say that he never believed those things about the murders at Sandy Hook.
On the other hand, the Washington Post's Azi Paybarah did some sniffing around yesterday. He came up with this second alleged example of a somewhat peculiar belief:
PAZBARAH (3/13/24): According to one former teammate, Rodgers appeared to show skepticism about the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
“The first thing that comes out of Aaron Rodgers’s mouth was ‘Do you believe in 9/11?’” former Green Bay Packers teammate DeShone Kizer said in a 2022 podcast interview, of meeting the quarterback. After Kizer said he did, Rodgers replied, “You should read up on that.”
What does, or did, Rodgers believe about 9/11? We have no idea!
Meanwhile, did Rodgers ever believe the least plausible claim on the planet—the claim that Sandy Hook was a hoax? We can't answer that question, but we can reliably tell you this:
A whole lot of people do!
The idea that those killings were a hoax would seem to be the least plausible claim on the planet. That said, the so-called "democratization of media" has resulted in a giant anthropology lesson, a lesson which goes like this:
We humans believe the craziest things! Aaron Rodgers to the side, there's nothing so crazy—more precisely, so implausible—that a whole lot of us human beings won't rush into line to affirm it.
This is a very important discovery, one that runs all through our politics. It's a surprising tenet of newfound anthropology—anthropology all the way down.
It's hard to believe that Rodgers believed it! That said, how well do we understand the shape of our human world?
ReplyDeleteWhy does this seem interesting to you?
And of course, albeit highly unlikely, it's far from "the least plausible claim on the planet." False flag ops do happen.
Please expand. We would all love to hear about all the false flag ops you have encountered.
DeleteIf there are such things as "false flag ops" -- whatever the fuck that means -- this could not possibly be a candidate. It is hands down the worlds least plausible claim, ranking up there with "flat earth".
DeleteIf you were to construct a "false flag operation", would you choose something that can be so easily verified. There are birth certificates, death certificates, billions and billions of medical, school, and other records to verify the existence of those poor kids. Asinine!
Laundering information is similar to laundering money: the trail has to stop; and you should not be able to recreate it. You cannot launder money if there's inventory, which can be matched against your alleged profits. Movie theatres are good for that. Casinos.
You cannot launder a "false flag operation" if there's absolute traceability of the information being put forth.
You seriously believe the government, any government, would be deterred from executing a false-flag op by existence (or non-existence) of birth certificates and such?
Delete"You cannot launder a "false flag operation" if there's absolute traceability of the information being put forth."
DeleteOf course you can, if you're the one in charge of tracing it.
Sandy Hook is demonstrably true.
DeleteFalse flags are not unheard of: “remember the Maine, the Reichstag fire, Gulf of Tonkin, “weapons of mass destruction”, etc.
Alex Jones' Sandy Hook story doesn't include any claims violating fundamental laws of nature. No raising of the dead. No perpetual motion. No traveling into the past. Nothing like that.
DeleteTherefore, it definitely isn't "the least plausible claim on the planet."
Rodgers teammate on the obviously false flag operations. https://twitter.com/i/status/1597436975023169536
DeleteGood lord! Where to begin here. Now, let's see that we can establish some reference point here:
Delete1. Does the town of Newtown, CT exist?
2. Does it have an elementary school named Sandy Hook?
3. Does it have teachers?
4. Did any of the students, claimed to have been killed, ever exist?
5. Are they still alive now?
5. Does the school have records of these students?
6. Were there 911 calls made.
...I honestly don't have the time to list out dozens and hundreds of things that would have had to be faked.
It is the least plausible claim. Claims that violate the laws of physics are not plausible at all.
I will leave it as an exercise for you to discern a wide chasm between Sandy Hook and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which, ironically, I was going to use as an example of false information, which, by the way, no one claims was a "false flag operation".
https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/who-we-are/about-us/
Are they still acting? Were they ever parents? Do you think that no one has every heard of the children that they falsely claim to have had? That it's impossible to find their birth certificates? Death certificates? School records? Medical records? Birthday parties that they went to?
PS: I can't believe I am casting pearl before swine.
Ilya, agree, but how is the Gulf of Tonkin not a false flag? A misleading story was used to justify a military attack.
DeleteIt doesn't matter if the town of Newtown, CT exists or not; certainly I haven't been there, and neither have at least 99% of the US population. As stated in 3:42 PM, Alex Jones' Sandy Hook story seems highly unlikely. And yet a story of, say, raising the dead would be much less plausible. That's all.
DeleteYou can have the last word now.
As for the false flags, of the thing that are known, operation Northwoods, planned but not executed, would be a good example.
Delete@Anon 6:22 -- It was not an operation. There was a brief confusion about whether the vessels were under attack, which was then falsely parlayed into a narrative that they were attacked. But no one claims that the US actually staged an attack on their own ships. They were just not attacked.
DeleteSince no one here believes Sandy Hook was a hoax, y’all are just splitting hairs for no apparent good reason.
DeleteOk Ilya but it does not really seem like much of a category error to call it a false flag, colloquially that’s how most refer to it.
Delete"The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead."
DeleteAre you familiar with Frank Tipler and his Omega Point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_J._Tipler
Speaking of resurrection of the dead.
Yes, we all live in a Plato's cave. We have to decide what to take as a reference point for claiming something to be true. Please, tell me it ain't Alex Jones for you.
"Since no one here believes Sandy Hook was a hoax, y’all are just splitting hairs for no apparent good reason."
DeleteThat's what Interwebs discussions are all about.
Having said that, here, where I work, in the suburbs of godless and liberal Portland, OR, there's a car parked with an Infowars sticker on it. So, I guess I've been sensitized.
I believe that the Sandy Hook massacre really happened, and that is crazy.
Delete@Ilya 6:46 PM "It was not an operation."
DeleteYou believe 100% everything you read in wikipedia, don't you? Talk about humans believing the craziest things.
4:32: Alex Jones found himself owing over a billion dollars for spreading these lies, thanks to a jury of his peers.
Delete@9:28 AM
DeleteI'm aware of Mr. Jones' financial misfortunes.
Don't you think that in the eyes of his core audience it makes him more credible?
Sure, 9:59. “ nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.” He’s a liar.
DeleteRodgers is a right wing idiot. So it is not hard to believe he is all in on every right wing conspiracy. Right wing idiots believe and spout idiotic things. It is what they do.
ReplyDeleteA subpoena for Matt Gaetz. His friend sued a young woman for defamation. She wants Matt to testify.
ReplyDeleteIs Bob a little bit odd or a little bit off?
ReplyDeleteYes
DeleteI second this notion.
DeleteSomerby is ignorant of anthropology, which does not endorse the murky view that “humans believe the craziest things”.
ReplyDeleteRodgers and his right wing cohort likely believe very little of the nonsense they try to impose on society, they are just chasing a feeling of dominance, an urge they have little control over; Somerby would know this if he was not so ignorant about behavioral science.
I’m human, and I believe crazy things.
DeleteWell, if anthropology doesn't believe that humans are susceptible to irrational beliefs, then case is closed. Not sure how one explains religion then.
DeleteDan Ariely made a career writing books, such as "Predictably Irrational" detailing very irrational behavior of very "rational" humans.
Rodgers and the crazies (including an Anonymous in the thread above) think very little about the nonsense that they spout, but they sure as fuck believe it.
If you recognize that your belief is a crazy thing, it’s likely the case that you do not believe it.
Delete6:20, beliefs and actions are separate things. Notions like beliefs and rational behavior are ambiguous. None of us are mind readers.
Irrational beliefs often involve indoctrination, such as religious indoctrination or manipulation through propaganda or advertising; it’s more an emergent condition, not so much innate like Somerby suggests.
Ariely’s work is mostly pop science and highly controversial, and he’s been largely disgraced for various reasons.
The “sure as fuck” notion is ignorant. Right wingers are motivated by urges resultant from unresolved trauma, they will claim to believe whatever feeds that beast, they are constantly flip flopping on stances, which is why they are so inconsistent and incoherent and follow cult of personalities like Trump.
Somerby knows nothing of anthropology or behavioral science, neither do his fanboys.
Well, as Bob always points out -- and I wholeheartedly agree with him -- it is impossible to know with certainty whether one believes something or they are faking it. Even harder and less plausible is to claim that "[someone is ]motivated by urges resultant from unresolved trauma". That's just...gobbledygook.
DeleteIs it rational to follow a preacher who claimed several days for the end of the world, which, unsurprisingly, perhaps, never happened? Seventh Day Adventists are a religion that resulted from such irrational claims.
Just to point out: almost 50% of criminal confessions are considered to be false. The police know how to isolate a person and make him/her confess to things that they didn't do. How does that happen?
DeleteAnonymouse 6:09pm, right. And it’s March Madness.
DeleteI hate to say this, but Ariely is regarded as not the most reliable source any more, despite the popularity of his books:
Deletehttps://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/10/09/they-studied-dishonesty-was-their-work-a-lie#:~:text=Dan%20Ariely%20and%20Francesca%20Gino,been%20accused%20of%20fabricating%20data.
Freud not only claimed unresolved trauma as a motive but demonstrated how that works using well-documented case studies with patients. No mental health worker ignores the impact of trauma on behavior. We see it in those with PTSD, for example, but to deny that experience can influence behavior is just idiotic.
DeleteI believe that the Sandy Hook massacre happened, and that is crazy.
DeleteIt's impossible to know what someone else really believes. Maybe people really do believe that reducing a huge chunk of our agricultural labor won't cause food prices to rise. Just like people can really think that Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson believe that COVID vaccines are dangerous, despite the fact that they both jumped the line to get the vaccines before those who were more medically at risk.
DeletePeople can believe anything whether it makes sense or not. I even heard of a guy who thinks his real estate properties are worth hundreds of millions of dollars when he wants to use them for collateral for a loan, but worth a hundred times less, when it comes to paying real estate taxes.
"Not sure how one explains religion then."
DeleteSee Plato's cave, above?
"A whole lot of people do!"
ReplyDeleteThis is an example of Our Host's current thinking that puzzles me. This week, he has told us that "a whole lot of people" believe "the cartels" are a huge, looming threat. Senator Katie Britt responded to President Biden's State of the Union message with a lurid, shocking tale of teen sex trafficking. When it was noted that her story was baldly misleading, Our Host told us, "A whole lot of people" do believe this, and Our Blue Tribe ignores them out our peril.
Today, we learn that a popular athlete has reportedly bought into "the least plausible claim on the planet." Once again, Our Host notes that "a whole lot of people" also believe this claim.
So what is it Our Blue Tribe can responsibly do? Pointing out the obvious flaws in these crackpot beliefs takes considerable effort and convinces approximately no one. Responding to the current firehose flood of similar claims takes time away from discussing issues that are important to our country's well-being.
At the same time, Our Host invariably tsks when Blue Tribe pundits ignore these crazy claims, They're guilty of "disappearing" the news being fed to Red America viewers and focusing only on their preferred facts.
So where does this leave us? Responding to misinformation isn't effective. Ignoring it is irresponsible. What's the right way forward?
Good comment. The right way forward is to address the root causes.
DeleteWhat are those "root causes"?
DeleteThe root causes are general relativity and the standard model.
DeleteWhy is it always the blue tribe’s job, not only to spread its message, but also correct all the red tribe misinformation? How about the red tribe quits disseminating misinformation?
DeleteIsn't the obvious question whether someone who believes such bizarre things is fit to be a vice president, or even a candidate for such an office. He has no government experience either. Why does anyone think these jobs require no qualifications, no relevant experience, no expertise or skills? It is an insult to the American people to offer such underprepared candidates for high offices.
ReplyDeleteWill Bunch (via Political Wire): "“The reality of an American dictatorship is not some kind of MSNBC-watching Trump Resistance dystopian alarmist fantasy. Instead, we know Trump’s third run for the White House centers on plans to rule as an autocratic ‘Red Caesar’ because he has told this to voters in rallies and interviews, again and again. What’s more, the specific blueprint is hardly secret, but spelled out explicitly by the candidate’s advisers in reams upon reams of publicly available documents — especially the nearly 1,000-page Project 2025 plan drafted by the Heritage Foundation and other far-right think tanks.”
ReplyDeleteSorry to ruin your buzz but the nearly 1,000-page Project 2025 plan drafted by the Heritage Foundation does not explicitly spell out a specific blueprint for American dictatorship. You got played by a hack.
DeleteThe trouble is, I don’t want to read a thousand pages.
DeleteIf you want the blueprint for American dictatorship, you need to read the Roberts Court's judicial decisions.
Delete
DeleteJust to confirm, does "dictatorship" in Lib mean "the Democrat party is losing elections" in English?
But they’re not.
DeleteJames Crumbley convicted in Michigan school shooting trial.
ReplyDeleteLock him up.
Delete“Least plausible?” That is an offensive way to describe a malicious lie that brought Alex Jones severe financial penalties.
ReplyDeleteSo why does Bob insert the bit about “crisis actors” not making sense. Does Bob have no idea what his good friends and neighbors happily swallow on a daily basis about the Biden Crime family? Does he know about Tucker Carlson’s documentaries that FOX rushed to the airwaves? Or Megan Kelley’s lies about Jan 6? Alex Jones lies about these murdered children. Joe Rogan legitimatizes Jones, Bill Maher legitimizes Joe Rogan, and that’s how evil works all the way to the bank. Rodgers is a MAGA dunce/creep who shoots his mouth off. I guess Bob just doesn’t know about these people.
ReplyDeleteYep, MAGA dopes the Crumblys have been found guilty. Bob has expressed compassion for them, none for the young people they slaughtered.
I can’t imagine he doesn’t know about this stuff. He would have to be completely out of touch, yet he spends hours and hours watching Fox.
DeleteAre there people who really think Alex Jones shouldn't be wearing a barrel with straps holding it up? And what do we do with such people?
ReplyDeleteLol. Well, whatever we do with such people, don't cut those straps!
DeleteDidn't we have a poster here at TDH who "believes" there is a Republican voter who cares about something other than bigotry and white supremacy? That seems like the least plausible claim on the planet.
ReplyDeleteAaron has supposedly been to college. However, did he ever attend a class?
ReplyDelete