TUESDAY, MARCH 26, 2024
Combatting falsehoods (or possibly lies): We'll be absorbing a medical procedure tomorrow morning. For that reason, we don't expect to post again until Thursday.
As of this very afternoon, we had shut things down for the day! Still and all, we were drawn in by Quinta Jurecic's new essay for The Atlantic.
She's writing about a very important topic. The dual headlines said this:
Good Luck Fighting Disinformation
A group that formed during the pandemic to counter medical lies found that every lever it pulled on failed to produce the results it was hoping for.
For the record, Jurecic is very bright and very experienced. Her identity line says this:
Quinta Jurecic is a contributing writer at The Atlantic, a fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, and a senior editor at Lawfare.
Jurecic is smart. That said, she had us at the word "disinformation," but also at the word "lies."
The essay concerns a well-intentioned group which set out, during the pandemic, to counter inaccurate claims about Covid. Or was the group attempting to counteract "lies?"
Jurecic is very smart. But early on, in the passage shown below, it seems that she may not be sure:
JURECIC (3/26/24): The collapse of No License for Disinformation, and of AB 2098, is a cautionary tale about why the harmful falsehoods flooding American life are so difficult to control, even when enormous efforts are made to do so. Sawyer and his colleagues believed that disinformation could be clearly identified and successfully countered—that the industry consensus would support them, that allies would line up behind them, that their professional organization had the power to tamp down those untruths. All of these assumptions proved wrong, to varying degrees. The market for lies still has no shortage of buyers and sellers, and few, if any, levers exist that can directly change this dynamic.
What was the group in question trying to counter? Was it trying to counter "falsehoods" and "untruths," or was it trying to counter "lies?"
Also, is every "harmful falsehood" a form of "disinformation?" And is "disinformation" the same thing as "misinformation?"
Also, why should anyone care?
For now, we'll postpone an answer to that last question. First, let's examine the somewhat pessimistic passage which closes Jurecic's essay:
JURECIC: The difficulty of responding to falsehoods about COVID isn’t just because of the First Amendment or institutional inaction. It’s because there’s political benefit in promoting those falsehoods, and political, legal, and even physical danger for those who oppose them. Lies, it turns out, have a constituency.
That constituency uses harassment as a tool to silence those who disagree, as Sawyer and Nichols discovered—a way to raise the cost of pushing back. Reporting and research have documented how both misinformation researchers and health-care workers seeking to combat pandemic falsehoods have struggled under the weight of online threats. Among the doctors affected by such harassment is Natalia Solenkova, a Florida critical-care physician who collaborated with the NLFD team and was later targeted with online abuse after a faked tweet of hers began circulating widely among anti-vaccine activists and was promoted by Joe Rogan. (Rogan later apologized.) “Whoever speaks about disinformation immediately gets harassed,” Solenkova told me. “And there is no institution that can support you.” She still posts about health care and COVID on social media, but worries about the security of her job if another, more convincing, fake begins to circulate.
Reflecting on her initial efforts with NLFD to respond to COVID lies, Solenkova seemed to look back on that early idealism with resignation. She explained to me over email that the organization’s work had been motivated by the belief that responding to falsehoods was largely a project of spreading truth. If No License for Disinformation could identify those falsehoods and explain their dangers clearly enough, the group had reasoned, then surely medical authorities would take action. But, she wrote, “we were naive.”
Had Solenkova been "responding to falsehoods?" Or had she been trying to "respond to COVID lies?"
Surely, everyone knows that "lies" are a subset of the (presumably) much wider universe of "falsehoods" (or "untruths"). Surely, everyone knows that "disinformation" is a subset of the world's larger collection of "misinformation."
Or then again, maybe not! We used to assume that everyone agreed on such basic traditional points. But over the course of the past quarter century, it has seemed increasingly clear that many people, including very bright people within our blue tribe, don't seem to accept such traditional verities at this point.
(We blame our one-time almost friend, David Corn, for dumbing this traditional standard down. And we love David Corn, a genuine prince of a fellow!)
It's endlessly surprising to us when people who are very smart are this cavalier with this kind of language. Jurecic is writing about a very important topic, but it seems to us that her thinking and her analysis are undermined right out of the box.
We'll offer one tiny thought concerning the very important question which lies at the heart of this important essay:
As a general matter, we'll guess that it's easier to get people to rethink a "falsehood" than it is to get them to rethink something you've described or denounced as a "lie."
In a highly partisan age, it's exciting and fun to accuse The Others of "lies." On the downside, it commits the accuser to an act of mind-reading—and it may tend to drive others away.
"Lies" are a subset of "falsehoods!" There was a time before the red-blue wars when we thought that we all agreed on that traditional notion!
(Also, RICO plainly isn't a crime. It's a federal law!)
Bob makes a valid point, but what worries me more is that I don't trust anyone to combat falsehoods and lies in an accurate, unbiased manner. This is a situation I deeply regret. At one time, I would have trusted the New York Times. but no more.
ReplyDeleteSkepticism is fine.
DeleteHowever, our collective skepticism has somehow brought us to a place where outlets like Fox News or even Alex Jones's Info Wars are granted equal stature with the New York Times.
There are outlets that use false information to advance their profit-driven or ideological agendas. Americans sometimes suffer direct harm from their purposeful deceptions.
When we reach the point where an entire political party routinely vilifies our mostly-reliable news organizations, what hope do we have for an informed electorate?
Being skeptidcal of a report in the Times or the Post and seeking additional information is what a responsible news consumer will do. Declaring that the press is the "enemy of the people," is not.
It isn't just Fauci who was vilified. My daughter was in charge of her hospital's ICU during covid, from the beginning. She and her staff (including nurses and respiratory technicians) were physically attacked and verbally abused every day by the families of patients who wanted to tell the doctors how to treat their loved ones, using info from the internet, not limited to ivermectin and other quack cures. Some of those people had to be physically removed by security staff. Family members wanted to tell nurses how to set their IV drips. That same staff watched so many unvaccinated people die, bewildered by the speed and severity of their decline and asking why their own precautions didn't work. It was, of course, too late to do a thing to help them except try to make their deaths easier on them and their usually ungrateful families. The ICU staff of course became sick themselves, brought covid home to family, worked extreme hours under great stress, needed to keep up with rapidly evolving new info about treatments, while there were increasingly difficult staff shortages. And the bodies piled up.
DeleteImagine the bitterness of someone in that situation of someone trying to figure out how so many people could be so deluded, and trying to understand the unfathomable evil of those who surely knew better, including folks like Trump who got vaccinated but allowed others to believe "disinformation".
My daughter receive an award as "Physician of the Year" after the covid year. She would gladly have traded it for the life of even one of her unreasonable, unruly, ultimately dying patients. Because that's why doctors are like.
So, this is not an intellectual debate for me. It was very real in 2020 and people died because the right wing played politics with a pandemic. I think some should have gone to jail, but I am not a doctor and thus not particularly humane toward those fools, charlatans, con artists, profiteers, and people like Roger Stone and Alex Jones who are in their own category of evil.
There are stories like this from the frontlines all across America, some worse (as in NYC). The experiences of the dying and their families (regardless of their beliefs) are heartbreaking.
DeleteThat's why it bothers me that Somerby can make this into a dispute over whether someone lied or spread misinformation, as if it made any difference to the dead and their survivors. There is a kind of callousness to Somerby's essay. It doesn't matter whether Trump believed he won or was lying, but it was life or death to so many of the misled people on the right.
5:28 Thank you for that comment which exactly parallels my experience. It was exasperating to stand in a room during the worst of it with a patient that would ultimately die from Covid while his TV was tuned to Fox and some asshole pontificating about how the vaccine was a Biden ploy to play to his liberal base. I argued that hospital policy allowing such cable content was akin to a Rabbi inviting a guest speaker to the synagogue who is a holocaust denier. There is no reasoning with these victims; they have a disdain for any authority that pushes up against their beliefs, which are handed to them by Tucker Carlson and a raft of disingenuous losers grifting off their ignorance.
DeleteI had it recently, and it was like a common cold.
DeleteYes, it is different now.
DeleteThe USA was up to 2,500 deaths per week this winter. Deaths stayed above 1,000/week from August 23 thru latest tabulation March 2, 2024. Still a very deadly flu that does not go away. A new variant could wreak havoc, especially on the unvaxxed. Also, Somerby has become an ass who seems to be losing it.
DeleteYou don’t trust anyone but you spread Lara Logan. You sold your sad little soul to Trump, Dave, and there is no turning back.
DeleteYou’re hearing from people who are vilifying common people for wanting to have communal funeral services for their loved ones. Even as the streets were filled with presidential campaign protesters
DeleteWho is doing this vilifying?
DeleteYou.
Delete6:35 It was very deadly in 2020. And not just to so-called high risk patients. I saw many otherwise healthy people including in their 40's and 50's die from it. The exhorbitant bodily reaction to the virus is a part of what kills. Your more recent infection has nothing to do with the earlier version of it.
Delete"....who are villifyng...." I am looking for the specific comment.
DeleteJust don’t vilify my dear friend Cecelia.
Delete@Unamused
Delete"I argued that hospital policy allowing such cable content was akin to a Rabbi inviting a guest speaker to the synagogue who is a holocaust denier."
And why can't a rabbi invite a guest speaker to the synagogue who is a holocaust denier? I remember reading several Chomsky's pieces (in regards to the 'Faurisson affair' controversy) , convincingly arguing that denying holocaust is not necessary antisemitic.
I didn't say that a rabbi could not invite a holocaust denier to a synagogue; of course he can. And I didn't make any conjecture about antisemitism. If you can't parse the analogy, that is on account of your possibly purposeful obtuseness. Analogies are not copies or clones of the subject they refer to. The hospital is, for those practicing in it, a place optimally for healing and truth, and not for the transmission of harmful crackpot ideas that encourage dangerous behaviors. Holocaust deniers are crackpots marketing potentially harmful ideas. If you think that disseminating fiction as truth to broad audiences is appropriate, you are welcome to attend as many such lectures as you like. I made no such claim that they should be outlawed.
DeleteYou think you're practicing healing and truth, and that those who disagree with you are transmitting harmful crackpot ideas. Others think you're transmitting harmful crackpot ideas and they are telling the truth. Both of you should be able to speak freely. That's what the 'free speech' concept is all about.
DeleteI don't see what the problem is. Are you a proponent of free speech or are you a totalitarian?
I'm not a totalitarian. Do I come across as someone who believes the government should force 12-year olds to have their rapists babies, like some common Republican politician?
DeleteYou come across as a dull DNC bot.
DeleteGod is a figment of dim-witted imaginations.
Delete"You come across as a dull DNC bot."
DeleteWhat was the tell, that I don't want a rapist to be President of the United States?
The tell is you being a dull DNC bot.
Delete"Others think you're transmitting harmful crackpot ideas". Others think a lot of things without the credentials or having done the requisite research. If you think that my 40 years of experience in medicine is equivalent to your internet browsing your favorite right wing sites or paying careful attention when Tucker Carlson instructs you to suntan your genitalia, I suggest you use at least use number 40 sunblock.
Delete@12:32 PM
DeleteYou're an anonymous commented on the internet. That's all you are here. Consequently, your attempt at appeal to your alleged authority fails completely.
Aside from that, it is well-known now that numerous researchers, actual researches, have been bullied, fired, banned, and so on.
Not to mention that the whole affaire was politicized up the wazoo:
"WASHINGTON — Sen. Kamala Harris criticized President Donald Trump's push to have a coronavirus vaccine ready for distribution before Election Day, painting the president as willing to use his power for political advantage.
"I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it," Harris, D-Calif., said in an interview with CNN."
I don’t see anything unreasonable about what Harris said.
DeleteTrump had nothing to do with the vaccine; Operation Warp Speed was conceived and implemented by the FDA and funded by Congress.
DeleteHarris was wise to distrust Trump, since on the subject, he had suggested lunatic actions like "curing" Covid by somehow shining a light inside the body and injecting a bleach-like substance into the body. Then there was the whole Ivermectin fiasco, a drug used to kill parasites, primarily in animals, AS ACCURATELY REPORTED BY CNN. It is, to a lesser extent, used by humans, mostly in less developed areas that suffer from bizarre creatures like the one that leads to river blindness, a parasite so pernicious that it makes many question why a god would create such things. Of course, gods are fictional, and Jesus is a myth.
Practicing doctors, broadly speaking, are not general experts in all health issues (even so called GPs), they tend to specialize in certain areas and know little else; in America, doctors seem to be significantly, if not primarily, motivated by financial reward - based on anecdotes as well as the remarkably mediocre healthcare in America, particularly relative to how much we spend, which is another indication towards financial motivation over genuine care. (Drs of course will be offended, but those needing good healthcare are even more offended). A potential initial step in reducing this circumstance is to fully subsidize all students attending public medical schools, additionally we could consider eliminating education debt for practicing doctors in good standing, and reforming/subsidizing their malpractice insurance (all these already exist to a small extent); however, the only robust solution is to have universal public healthcare, something along the lines of Sanders' medicare for all proposal.
Interesting side note, by age 55 half of all doctors have been sued, and, more specifically, before they reach the age of 55, more than 50 percent of general surgeons and obstetricians/gynecologists have already been sued. While the majority of these are dismissed or result in the doctor being found not guilty, it does strongly point to doctors not being all they are cracked up to being.
In 2020 protesters took care to mitigate the risks of Covid by being outside, distancing and wearing masks, in contrast to many right wingers that wanted to congregate in defiance of public health recommendations and mandates, wanting to have large groups indoors, not distancing, and not wearing masks.
We were warned, including at this blog, that those protests, mostly of racial oppression, would insure that Trump would get reelected. Those warnings were misguided, and those that gave such warnings should not be heeded now. When you are repeatedly and significantly wrong on major issues (not the nitpicks Somerby focuses on), like Somerby and other right wingers, you lose your credibility.
Alternatively, right wingers were warned that if we did not take appropriate mitigating actions concerning the pandemic, it would lead to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths, which is what happened.
The first target of the Nazis - a cohort of virulent antisemites, were leftists; initially the Nazis wanted to merely deport all Jews. Unable to find a country willing to take on a significant population of Jews, they threw their hands up in the air Somerby-style (of course he is no nazi) and went about the business of simply murdering them all. The banality of evil indeed. Hey, to the extent I am coy, I learned it from you, I learned it from you Somerby!
Nazis were/are right wingers, they had/have no coherent or credible ideology, they were/are wounded people trapped by the resultant obsession with dominance.
Triggered right wingers, have at it! We can enjoy a good chuckle reading their nonsense.
@2:11 PM "I don’t see anything unreasonable about what Harris said."
Deleteif so, then why is Unamused @6:20 PM so upset about Fox saying (allegedly) that "the vaccine was a Biden ploy to play to his liberal base"?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. What goes around come around. Have you heard these?
There is a phenomenon bolstered by the internet in which by virtue of being able to place a comment an individual pretends to himself that he has been gifted with an outsized equivalency to others who have more knowledge of a subject. I used to spend a lot of time on a variety of economic blogs knowing full well that my opinions were not based on the extensive knowledge of others commenting on those sites. I came to learn. Not to be a clown pontificating on subject matter others knew better, and certainly not to discredit them as just a bunch of anonymous posters. That is a game to be played by the resentfully ignorant of which there are many, as in " My opinion is as good as yours because I too am just an anonymous commenter". It's a game that allows the player to pretend that their years of regret from underachieving can somehow be washed away by pretending other commenters are their equal in realms in which their Google searches are woefully inadequate. So enjoy yourself, 12:48. Whatever makes you feel good.
DeleteIs a tortoise an amphibian or a reptile?
ReplyDeleteThere IS a correct answer. Anyone who forcefully and repeatedly repeats the wrong answer is promoting a falsehood.
That said, is there anything to be gained by arguing whether the promoter of the wrong information is stating a lie or a falsehood? Are we better informed by knowing whether the wrong answer is misinformation or disinformation?
What really matters is getting the right answer on the biology quiz: the tortoise is a reptile.
It is a favorite hair splitting argument of Somerby's, which in most instances would require a polygraph to sort out. The pragmatic consequence of making this distinction has no relevance to outcomes, as you suggest.
DeleteUnamused, in your entire life, when have you found anything relative?
DeleteRelative to what, Cecelia? I erased the snarky response I had to your question, which pains me dearly.
DeleteUnamused, we differ, but I like you so much.
DeleteThanks Cecelia. I think I get your original point. No quibbles here.
DeleteSometimes Somerby engages in mind reading, other times he excoriates such a notion. It all depends on what serves his empty goals.
DeleteThis quibbling over whether a piece of disinformation is a lie or not has become majorly tiresome. For medical people trying to combat covid misinformation, it does not matter to them whether anyone is lying or making misstatements. The impact is on the receiver of the info, not the person generating it. The people spreading covid misinformation did huge amounts of damage to gullible people, including unnecessary deaths. Those people are dead regardless of the intentions of the liars.
ReplyDeleteSomerby's insistance that this matters in any way is irksome because he neglects the harm in order to split meaningless hairs. I have no more patience with him over this kind of thing.
Many people accused of spreading Covid misinformation at the time have since been proved correct. The lab leak, the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns, posts about the efficiency of
DeleteCOVID-19 vaccines were all suppressed by our government and described as “disinformation,” and
“misinformation,” but many of the posts we now know were true! But that doesn't even matter as we all have the right to be wrong.
"Disinformation" has been used by our government already as a way of censoring political opponents. Remember the Hunter Biden laptop was thought to be "Russian disinformation" at the time but we all now know that it wasn't, it was real.
Any tIme you see someone calling themselves a "disinformation expert", as Bob says, CHECK YOUR WALLET!
The vast consensus of experts based on DNA studies and other evidence is since the first Covid cases originated in a cluster around the live animal market, and not ten miles away at the lab, the market is most likely responsible. KN-95, or better N-95 masks are highly protective and along with lockdowns save lives and allow our first responders and front line medical care to better handle the flood of dying patients. The original vaxx was over 90% efficient stopping the first variant. It's efficacy was reduced to about 50% by the variant. The manufacturers have done a great job of chasing and protecting the latest variant, and although less effective at keeping a person from getting sick, vaxxed people die at 10% of the rate of unvaxxed. None of this is disputed by any infectious disease expert. You are a complete tool of the misinformers. Shame on your laziness to learn not be told bullshit.
Delete7:27,
DeleteLet's give some credit to Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity for jumping the line and getting their COVID vaccines before other more vulnerable citizens. It probably saved their lives.
Remember, the disease is THE SAME NAME as the lab. :D
DeleteIt was the Covid-19 Lab?
Delete@7:27 -- the people proven incorrect about covid misinformation are dead and cannot recant the beliefs that contributed to their unnecessary deaths.
DeleteSome of those dying people refused to believe, on their deathbeds, that they were dying of covid.
DeleteGlad to see a second offering today, Bob, since the bridge collapse. All the best to you tomorrow and I’m glad you’re still fighting and above water.
ReplyDeleteAs if you have any idea why Somerby is receiving treatment. Lots of sympathy for Somerby, none for covid victims, apparently.
DeleteRight wingers love this blog, since it trashes the blue tribe and often boosts right wing talking points.
DeleteCecelia, who weirdly pretends to be a woman, likely does not care about Bob's health, he (Cecelia) just likes his daily hit of "owning the libs".
ReplyDeleteIt's very simple, actually: anything that contradicts the current version of the state-approved narrative is misinformation, disinformation, lie, falsehood, untruth, enemy propaganda, and harmful falsehood all together.
One has to be real dumb not to know it.
Fuck off
DeleteAnd the state-approved narrative is that the Republican Party is not a criminal enterprise, but is actually a political party.
DeleteWhen you're right, you're right.
People of color knew.
DeleteCracka please.
DeletePeople have the constitutional right to be wrong.
ReplyDeleteHow much money do you think it cost our medical insurance system and Medicare to treat covid patients? Intensive care is expensive, figure in ventilators, respiratory treatments, medications, organ failure and associated responses near death. Onset of symptoms to death was about 2 to 8 weeks. Figure in the emerging treatments and need for isolation and protective equipment.
DeleteDo people have to right to impose those expenses on our nation? Look at what covid did to our economy! The deniers contributed to that too, but we all paid the price, not them individually.
People have a responsibility to be as right as possible, especially when a lot is at stake for themselves and their families. Rights come with responsibilities and some are limited (including free speech). Sending kids to the local grocery in the middle of a hurricane and telling them God will protect them, is an example of a "right to be wrong" that I doubt would be protected, in the face of a duty to protect them. Years ago, they prosecuted people who had unprotected sex while HIV+, telling their partners they were not infected. They were wrong and people caught AIDs that way, but no one bought any defense about a constitutional right to be wrong in such cases. And there were AIDs deniers in that time period too, who very few people took seriously because there wasn't a conman like Trump in the presidency.
Take them all to court then. Or get the hospitals to not treat them and just let them die. Maybe you can proactively just kill all the covid deniers in a more cost effective way.
DeleteFigure out a way to measure what "as right as possible" means, then figure out a way to enforce it and find someone capable of enforcing it. Change the first amendment. I don't give a shit.
Until then, people have the right to be wrong. They even have a right to oversimplify complex issues and conflate moral responsibility with legal consequences in an overwrought display of moral and ethical righteousness in comment sections. ;)
Doctors are governed by professional ethics encoded in licensing laws. Some might want to know why quite a few of us hate right wingers, despite Somerby’s sermons.
DeleteOffering non sequiturs is also a right you have. Thanks.
DeleteYes, I said I was the legal owner of the bridge. But, oops! I was wrong! Now don't violate my rights!
DeleteSome American corporations (corporations are people too, my friend) still did business with Nazi Germany during World War II. And we all saw Dick Cheney's company's do business with Saddam Hussein, despite the sanctions against doing so. What are you gonna do?
DeleteIt was illegal to do business with Germany during the war, and the Attorney General impounded German property in the United States. Please present evidence that US corporations did business with Germany during the war.
Delete“People have the right to be wrong.” That is brilliant. Maybe put it on a tee shirt.
Delete
DeleteIt'll fit easier on a t-shirt than:
Step 1: Build a Wall.
Step 2: Deport All illegals.
Step 3: Bitch about food prices/ inflation, despite removing a good chunk of labor from the agricultural industry.
There are temporary seasonal agricultural visas, you know. H-2A.
DeleteNot that you care, of course.
Of course I care that immigrants are coming here on H-2A temporary visas to do the jobs Americans are too under-paid to do.
Delete7:57: Farm owners frequently disregard the visa laws when hiring labor. It’s cheaper that way. Maybe they should be prosecuted.
DeleteSo those immigrants temporarily commit crimes, bring drugs with them, and commit rapes like they are some common Republican Presidential nominee?
Delete"Farm owners frequently disregard the visa laws when hiring labor."
DeleteIt's not farm owners' responsibility to enforce border-crossing laws. You give them a name and social security number, and they accept it. Isn't it your favorite talking point that asking for an ID is racist?
Only legitimate businesses do background checks on their employees.
Delete9:19: It is absolutely an employer’s responsibility to ensure they hire only people legally entitled to work in the United States.
DeleteNonsense. They aren't hired as employees. I can hire you to clean my toilet today, pay you 20 bucks, and good bye. It'll be perfectly legal.
DeleteAnd here 9:19 claimed that the workers would just give them a social security number and the business owner would happily hire them without checking. Now you tell me it’s all under the table. Huh.
DeletePeople in marginal economic circumstances engage in barter more than paying people for tasks. It is traditional in many migrant cultures.
DeleteConover's book, Cheap Land Colorado, about subsistence living in rural areas, describes such a barter economy among white poor people who have fled urban inner cities to live hand-to-mouth on small plots of land, often "off the grid." Some do not acknowledge the need for things like social security cards or taxes.
@10:27 AM
DeleteYou need their ssn if you paid them above some amount, $600 or something like that. If you want to write it off as your business expense.
9:45 it is well known and well established that not only did many American companies collaborate with the Nazis before the war - like Coca Cola and GM, many continued to do so after the war, although often in secret - such as Ford, Kodak, AP, IBM, GE, Random House, Chase, Standard Oil, etc.
DeleteThis info is publicly available and easily and quickly accessed via Google.
Then it should be easy for you to cite some sources.
Delete3:04, before the war and after the war are not during the war. Please show evidence of business during the war. And explain how funds were transferred.
DeletePeter Angelos died the day before yesterday.
ReplyDeletePresident Trump endorses the “God bless the USA” Bible:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/only-one-special-bible-is-endorsed-by-donald-trump/
It is large print with a slim profile. I am wondering what they left out.
DeleteWill Trump spreading the word of "woke" Jesus lose him Republican votes in November?
DeleteHey, Bob. Perhaps you might read Dr Solenkova’s story to understand why the term “lie” might really be appropriate here.
ReplyDeleteSomeone created a false tweet under solenkova’s name, making her appear to say terrible things.
Here she speaks in her own words:
“How one physician stood up to disinformation and what she learned with Natalia Solenkova, MD, PhD”
https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/sustainability/how-one-physician-stood-disinformation-and-what-she-learned
There are people out there who deliberately create false narratives, ie disinformation, ie lies, to further their agendas. Others believe the lies, perhaps, and then spread “misinformation”, if you want to play these semantic games.
Here’s a bit more info:
Delete“A fake tweet spurred an anti-vaccine harassment campaign against a doctor”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna64448
The US dramatically underfunded its outreach program. The old model of 1 dollar of education for 1 dollar of medicine would have saved lies. Instead everyone yelled at each other about muh freedum.
ReplyDeletehttps://nypost.com/2024/03/26/us-news/sean-diddy-combs-blasts-feds-military-level-force-during-raid-of-his-homes-calls-investigation-a-witch-hunt/
ReplyDelete“At least four Jane Does and one John Doe have been interviewed by New York prosecutors in connection to sex-trafficking allegations and a RICO case, Rolling Stone reported.”
Huh? RICO is a law. It ain’t no type of crime…
So, just like a robbery case means you’ve committed robbery, it seems you’re saying that a RICO case means you’ve committed RICO. You sound asinine.
DeleteYou committed a crime of operating an enterprise involved in racketeering activities. In short, RICO.
DeleteYes, languages do work like that. Grammar-nazis object, of course. But that's their problem.
The activities have to be defined crimes, you dumb fuck.
DeleteIf the target is Joe Biden, MAGA don’t need no stinking’ charges.
DeleteThe prosecutor will ask the witness, “What did Diddy do?” She’ll reply, “Diddy did a RICO!”
DeleteYes. You can say that Mr. Biden did RICO, and everyone will understand.
DeleteExcept for AOC, Bob, and his DNC trolls, of course. But that's okay.
Diddy RICO? Diddy ever!
Delete9:22: Sure. We will await specific charges from the House GOP. (LOL) Unless you believe “he’s corrupt” is sufficient. And you probably do. No surprise for a Trump cultist.
Delete@10:06 AM
DeleteThe discussion here is about the word "RICO". The charges you're waiting for, and your confession of the hatred you feel for me, that's all irrelevant.
9:22 brought Biden into it. “Corruption” is not a specific crime. He “did RICO” tells you nothing.
DeleteThe Biden Family alleged criminality is the context of this discussion.
DeleteYes, trust me, it does tell me something: the witness alleges that the Biden Family is involved in organized racketeering. And I'm pretty sure it tells the same thing to any reasonable person.
Racketeering? Ok. That’s still an umbrella term. What specific illegal acts were involved in the Biden racket?
DeleteSpecific act? You want a specific act? I’ll tell you an act. RICO is an act of Congress!
DeleteThe elements of (1) a criminal organization, and (2) specific crimes, must still be proved against Biden and they have not been. There has been no credible evidence presented in the congressional hearing that any Biden did anything criminal (other than Hunter's late tax payments, now made current, and his purchase of a gun while a drug addict, also no longer true). That isn't enought to invoke RICO against Biden and his family.
DeletePeople that are taking the side of RICO itself being a crime. Are you perhaps curious what are some of the criminal acts that fall under RICO?
DeleteMoney laundering
Bribery
Extortion
Drug trafficking
Mail fraud
Gambling
Murder
Counterfeiting
Kidnapping
Robbery
Embezzlement
Arson
Obstruction
Intimidating witnesses
Slavery
Terrorism
Securities fraud
So, this is specific enough for you? Biden did one of those!
What a dumb discussion...
I posted nearly the identical list two days ago. It's useless trying to have an honest dialogue with these magats.
DeleteYeah. Frustrating.
DeleteQ: Which of that long list of offenses (Rationalist 1:05) did Biden commit? When and where? What's the evidence?
DeleteA: He did a RICO. He's the godfather of the Biden Crime Family. He's the boss of a racketeer-influenced and corrupt organization. He's alway doing RICOs.
Impeach him!
Remove him!
Lock him up!
Just to bring back sanity, Biden committed no crime, did not engage in any corruption.
DeleteI will be voting for Biden, along with the majority of Americans.
The majority of those who vote.
DeleteMore and more Americans support the building of a border wall, at the Mason-Dixon line.
ReplyDeleteDem flips state house seat in ALABAMA.
DeleteThe previous seat holder, a Republican, had to resign after he plead guilt to VOTING FRAUD.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/26/alabama-special-election-democrats-republicans-ivf
Joe Biden, from the beginning of his life — at the moment of conception — has been a member of the Biden Crime Family. He’s the Don. When they gather, he prompts them, and they respond:
ReplyDeleteRICO?
Today!
RICO?
Tomorrow!
RICO?
Forever!
Like Al Capone used to say, "Let's do some Volstead." And everybody was like "WTF?"
DeleteAnd then he said, "I mean pour the whiskey!" Cheers erupted.
That’s pretty funny, rationalist. If I could upvote, I would.
DeleteWhy should there have been ANY falsehoods about a deadly disease that killed so many people?
ReplyDeleteCome on. This is the real world. You’ve got to have some falsehoods.
DeleteThere didn't have to be falsehoods. But it became politicized. Which brings us back to those that are comfortable with the current status quo. Maybe they were amongst those rooting for vaccine skeptics to die.
DeleteThe constant tribalistic bickering erodes our humanity.
You repeated your assertion that anyone wanted vaccine skeptics to die. That wasn’t true in hospitals or among public health workers. The general public of mask wearers were wearing masks to protect themselves but also the unvaccinated, including refusers not just those unable to be vaccinated due to health issues. It is super paranoid to think anyone wanted misguided right wing assholes who spit in people’s faces, to die. That is too harsh a sentence. We tried to protect them.
DeleteNo, it illustrates our humanity.
ReplyDeleteThere are betters angels of our nature.
DeleteHumans are not innately tribal in the sense that Somerby and his right wing fanboys mean; humans are innately communal and want to help those in need.
DeleteI was told in 2020-21, by the highest authorities, that the vaccine prevents infection and transmission.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i6HZPjuqsE
Were they telling the truth?
If it prevents infection it prevents transmission because the fewer people who catch the virus the fewer there are to transmit it.
DeleteThey may have thought they were telling the truth, or just incompetent to the extent they didn't know what they were even supposed to say, they just knew they wanted there to be universal acceptance of the vaccine.
DeleteThey moved about on their position on cloth masks, too. Turns out cloth masks were largely innefective when mandated.
Pharma also staged a concerted campaign against ivermectin.
Then an exaggerated backlash became entrenched in conservative dogma. Vaccines don't work at all. Cloth masks do nothing. Ivermectin is the cure all.
Politicizing life and death information.
The vaccines are highly effective. Of course not 100% effective. But every body should get immunized, unless there's a real medical reason not to.
Delete@2:11 PM
DeleteI have never seen "Vaccines don't work at all" or "Ivermectin is the cure all". You must be reading a lot of conservative internet.
As for the masks, what I did see is that they create a false sense of security. But I think that was on the Swedish government site.
Studies indicate masks are highly effective, even cloth masks are effective. Mandates were also effective.
Deletehttps://www.everydayhealth.com/coronavirus/the-evidence-is-clear-wearing-a-mask-does-reduce-the-spread-of-covid-19/
Ivermectin has been studied and found to be ineffective. The reason not to use it is occasional toxic side effects, cost, false sense of security and avoidance of effective measures such as masks.
DeleteI never saw anyone call any of the vaccines 100% effective. Also, they said the vaccine reduced the severity of the infection, not that it prevented infection in all cases.That is not nothing. Info was continually available in the NY Times. I think Rationalist has rounded off some corners.
DeleteSometimes Rationalist sounds like Irrationalist.
DeleteSomerby today continues to subtly suggest persuasion plays no role in politics, something he started hinting at recently.
ReplyDeleteLate to the party, but appreciated none the less.