A liberal reclaiming the truth: Paul Glastris is editor in chief of the Washington Monthly. In a fleeting brush with greatness, we met him once long ago.
As he watched Wednesday night’s debate, Glastris saw some of the same things we did. In this passage, he refers to his comments about the debate for the BBC:
GLASTRIS (10/4/12): I also said that it was simply difficult to argue with an opponent who is engaging in the level of factual mendacity we saw out of Romney, and that last night reminded me of the first debate between Al Gore and George W. Bush in 2000. As you may recall, in that debate Gore pointed out time and time again that Bush was misstating his proposed budget—that his tax cuts would go disproportionately to the wealthy and that those tax cuts would dwarf what he was claiming he would spend on education, health care, and defense. In response, Bush shamelessly dissembled and said it was Gore who was peddling “fuzzy math.” There was no way for the audience to judge who was right, and they got no help from the moderator, who was—surprise surprise—Jim Lehrer, the same person who moderated last night.In that passage, Glastris accurately describes one of the turning points in modern political history. Liberals have refused to confront these events for the past dozen years.
Of course subsequent events proved that Gore was right on the facts. But he was widely judged the loser of that debate.
Glastris is right about that first debate between Bush and Gore. (Below, we’ll offer one amplification.) In one long, remarkable segment that night, Gore kept correcting misstatements Bush was making about his own prescription drug plan.
(There were also disputes about Bush’s very large tax proposal, with Bush falsely claiming that Gore was using “phony numbers.” But the most dramatic, extended exchange concerned the prescription drug plan.)
Over and over, Gore corrected Bush during that ten-minute segment—and Gore was right on the facts! Eventually, Bush went with a scripted zinger.
This is what Bush said:
BUSH (10/3/00): Look, this is a man, he's got great numbers. He talks about numbers. I'm beginning to think not only did he invent the Internet, but he invented the calculator. It's fuzzy math! It's the scaring, trying to scare people in the voting booth.At this point, Bush changed the subject. He delivered a filibuster about his tax proposal, which wasn’t the subject under discussion. When he was done, Gore returned to the subject at hand—and delivered a comical knock-out:
GORE (10/3/00): I mean, it's just— It's just clear. You can go to the [Bush] web site and look. If you make more than $25,000 a year, you don't get a penny of help under the Bush prescription drug proposal for at least four or five years.You can just "go to the web site," Gore said, gesturing toward Bush. And as it turned out, Gore was right about the substance of this long, dramatic dispute.
Incredible! Bush had spent a solid ten minutes misstating his own drug plan! But when Gore made accurate statements about Bush’s proposal, Bush pulled out the ultimate zinger: Al Gore said he invented the Internet!
By that time, “journalists" had been repeating that zinger for nineteen months. Now, Bush employed it too, as an escape from the facts.
Gore was right—and Bush was wrong! Indeed, Candidate Bush had been comically wrong—and Gore had offered a comical note of rebuttal, saying you can simply see what it says on Bush’s own web site!
But very few voters ever learned any of that. As he continued in Thursday's post, Paul Glastris began reclaiming our modern political history.
This is how Bush reached the White House. Glastris is telling the truth:
GLASTRIS (continuing cirectly from above): One thing, however, has changed since 2000. Back then, virtually no one in the mainstream media—save Paul Krugman—called Bush out on his dishonest numbers. But today, fact-checking sites that didn’t exist in 2000 have been picking apart the veracity of both Obama’s and Romey’s debate performances, and so far giving the latter nearly all the Pinocchios. As Ed, Jonathan Bernstein and others have pointing out, the real question is whether, over the next few days, the story in the press remains Romney’s “superior” performance, or the mendacity behind that performance.In that highlighted statement, Galstris describes one of the great journalistic frauds of this or any age.
Gore was right—and Bush was wrong. Somewhat comically, Gore said you can simply look at Bush’s web site to see that Bush was wrong.
But so what? In subsequent days, the press corps worked extremely hard to avoid telling voters that Bush had been wrong. As Glastris correctly says, "virtually no one in the mainstream media...called Bush out on his dishonest numbers."
That's a remarkable, accurate statement: The press corps buried the truth.
In real time, we were churning the information, here and at the now defunct Speakout.com web site. But the mainstream press corps, “liberals” included, worked hard to keep voters from knowing the truth about that dramatic exchange.
Glastris is right about what happened back then. Beyond that, he is right about what’s happening today.
As Glastris says, what happened to Gore in October 2000 isn’t happening to Obama. Today, many news orgs are actively discussing Romney’s several misstatements.
That’s what journalists are supposed to do, of course. But in October 2000, the fix was in. The press had been at war with Bill Clinton about his deeply disturbing blow jobs.
When Clinton escaped removal from office, they went to war with Al Gore.
It was a genuine press corps scandal—a scam, a hoax, a fraud. And from that day right up to this, the liberal world has agreed that you can't be told what happened.
Joan won’t tell you. Neither will David. They are now kissing the keister of Chris, and Chris lies right at the heart of this twenty-month press corps scam.
(Chris worked for Jack Welch at the time—and Welch was making Chris very wealthy. You’re not allowed to know these things, though David and Joan of course do.)
We’re going to tell you to do it again: Go to C-Span and watch the ten minutes to which we refer. Starting at minute ten of this tape, watch Candidate Gore correct Candidate Bush again and again and again. (The exchange goes on for ten minutes.)
Gore was right and Bush was wrong. But it’s exactly as Glastris says: “Virtually no one in the mainstream media...called Bush out on his” erroneous claims. Twelve years ago this very week, you simply weren’t allowed to know that Gore’s “fuzzy math” and “phony numbers” had actually been correct.
You weren't allowed to know that Bush was wrong when he essentially called Gore a liar.
Instead, you were encouraged to laugh about Bush’s comical insults, including his zinger about inventing the Internet. And then, the press corps assembled a tape to make you think that Gore had loudly sighed all through this pivotal evening. (They also invented several lies Gore had supposedly told. That part has been disappeared now.)
Go ahead—watch that tape! As you observe Gore’s perfect deportment, please understand: This is the debate at which you’re still being told that Gore behaved so disrespectfully! In other words, this cosmic journalistic scam is still underway—and the liberal world still accepts it.
Go ahead—watch that tape! As you do, understand what Glastris says: Candidate Gore was right on the facts in that dramatic, ten-minute exchange! But “virtually no one in the mainstream media...called Bush out on his” bogus statements! Instead, they attacked Gore for alleged sighs and alleged lies. And sure enough:
In the week which followed that first debate, Gore sank like a stone in the polls. He regained ground in subsequent weeks. But Bush ended up in the White House.
In Thursday's post, Glastris reclaimed a pivotal bit of modern political history. That said, the rest of the liberal world continues to let this dog lie.
You see, many leading figures in the “liberal world” were deeply engaged in the war against Gore. You mustn’t be told what these people did! Darlings, it just isn’t done!
We honor Journalist Glastris today for stating what happened twelve years ago. One last question:
In October 2000, Glastris was a speech-writer for President Clinton. He wasn’t a journalist then.
But what was said by the Washington Monthly when this scam was unloosed on the world? What did the Washington Monthly say about this in real time?
Glastris says only Krugman spoke up. Given what Glastris is saying today, why did the Washington Monthly keep its pretty trap shut?
We compliment Glastris for what he has said. But truly, we need a truth commission to unpack this historic scam.
Just for the record: You won’t see major liberals expound on what Glastris has written.
Sorry, rubes! The scam is still on! Gore's sighs get louder with each passing year—and "liberals" aren't going to tell you the truth about what happened that night.
Dearest darlings! Careers are at stake! Truth-telling just isn't done!
Paul Glastris told the truth in that post. None of your heroes will.
Be sure to check out parts of Chris Hayes's show from this morning. He does the comparison to the first Bush/Gore debate pretty well. (I think) you'd be happy.ReplyDelete
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We've been hearing the same legitimate and important complaint about the top liberal journalists for years now on this site, but does it ever go beyond complaining? What are you going to do to force the Maddows, Hayeses, Schultzes, Marshalls and Walshes to finally bring it up and give it the massive attention it should have for the story to get the huge traction it deserves? And thereupon to force the Matthewses, Dowds, and O'Donnells (and the NYT and Washington Post on behalf of Dowd, Seelye and Connolly et al) to acknowledge their participation in their sliming and do mea culpas until they are blue in the face? How about demanding The Washington Monthly do a major name-naming retrospective piece that is too strong an attack for the culprits and their younger co-conspirators to ignore? How about demanding in the name of decency and integrity in journalism that the CJR devote an entire issue on the War Against Gore? How about demanding that the entire faculties of all the journalism schools take out NYT and Washington Post full-page ads, out of their own pockets, recalling that scandal in journalism and declaring that all the major participants and their modern young co-conspirators have disgraced their profession and should be relegated to the ash-heap of media history unless they engage in the extensive corrective efforts their malfeasance requires? How about all of the above?ReplyDelete
Obviously, just railing against it on this web site has not done the job, and probably never will. Perhaps with focused effort to force others claiming to be liberal to get on the job despite their career-protecting caution will also force the culprits and their young co-conspirators to get out front of the story.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think Mr Somerby has the resources available to a Koch, Scaife or Soros and can't single handedly force these desirable things to happen. I know Seelye and others are aware of what he writes, but are able to dismiss him as a crank with an inflammatory style and continue right along with what they're doing. The pressure to own up to past misdeeds and to force change is going to have to come from the liberal/progressive public at large. My complaint is that I would like this site to offer more in the way of suggestions as to how we can come together to accomplish that.Delete
No, but he's got more resources than the rest of us who come on here. He's got us, for starters, and he has contacts. Krugman is a fan. Krugman is compromised in terms of personal attacks on Seelye and Dowd, but he could be invaluable as an adviser with his own contacts. A major, cover story in Washington Monthly could have a significant impact -- but only if names are named, including not only the original perpetrators, but also the young post-hoc enablers on the make who are afraid their careers will be cut short.Delete
One strategem would be to weaken the ability of the perpetrators to harm the Young Turks' careers. Could 50 of us shouting more-or-less every day at Glastris for Washington Monthly to do a major cover story make a difference? How about Mother Jones? But then we have to figure out how to make sure that the first shot across the bow isn't a one-hit wonder. Naming names -- all of them -- is an essential requirement for generating enough buzz to ensure traction. Maybe only Somerby would have the guts to do the article, but one of those publications should be willing to give him the assignment since he clearly has the most expertise.
Another strategy would be to finish the book he's been writing for 12 years.Delete
I would hope that the "you" in "What are you going to do . . ." would be understood to mean everyone reading this comment. To sit back and ask why Bob Somerby isn't doing more in this cause borders on the ridiculous. He's doing a whole heck of a lot. But what are YOU doing?Delete
"Another strategy would be to finish the book he's been writing for 12 years."Delete
It would help, but don't kid yourself. A political book with a shocking thesis that is backed up by the facts can go unreviewed so that only the fringy people who already believe it will even know it exists. (ask Noam Chomsky about that). If Somerby writes a book there's a very good chance that if it was reviewed, it would be reviewed in the snarkiest possible way and Bob portrayed as a lunatic. It won't help that Bob is a little cranky and obsessive (you have to be to uncover the details of the press coverage of the 2000 election), and has a writing style here that could easily be portrayed as that of a raving loon if you're not familiar with his satirical style. (I get a little tired of it myself.)
That's the trouble here--Bob's thesis is counterintuitive to people who think that the press is "liberal", which to some degree on some subjects it is. So it's easy to destroy his credibility by making fun of him and lumping him in with, say, 9/11 truthers. That's a familiar phenomenon to all of us on the left.
dude, bob has tried for over a decade now told the truth and demanded change - but instead we got obama using the same right wing/media talking ponts against the clintons - then merged his campaign with theirs and now we have the second incompetent amateur in a row in the white house. there are a lot of people to blame for this - but bob sure as hell isnt one of them.Delete
Donald, we will never know the impact of Bob's book because he still hasn't written it.Delete
Yet at the same time, he chides others for their sins, their omissions, and their failures to do the work of journalism.
One question Bob seems to not realize is that up until August 2000, Bush held double-digit leads in just about every head-to-head poll dating back a year.
Then suddenly, that began to change until Gore wound up actually winning the popular vote.
Did the "War on Gore" suddenly stop in August 2000?
I completely agree that Romney's untruths, and his 180 degree rotations, explain Obama's performance. I guess the follow up question is, why wasn't Obama prepared to hear lies and flip-flopping? I was shocked at the extent to which Gentle Romney had suddenly replaced Mean Romney, but the Obama campaign needs to be prepared for any eventuality, and Obama didn't seem to be. Unless his wonky underaggressiveness was always the plan and he was going to stick with that plan no matter what.ReplyDelete
You didn't see the "mean Romney", because "mean Romney" is a figment of Democratic attacks. The real Romney is amazingly goodhearted, as was testified to a the Republican Convention by the ordinary people he has gone way out of his way to help. His record of charity, not just financial but hands-on helping, is pretty amazing. And, his help has generally been effective, not just symbolic.Delete
Romney is a despicable passive-aggressive liar.Delete
Agree, David in Cal.Delete
Thank you, David in Cal, for providing an added dimension, with new meaning to the phrase "Fairy tales can come true."Delete
Dipso and Horace -- If you want to understand the real Romney, please read this end to end.Delete
sounds like the lord with his serfs I'm sure Mitt is a very nice man who has done good deeds That alone doesn't qualify him to be prez He did underfund pensions & let the federal gov (your tax dollars) pick up the slack & his policies are terrible despite what he'd have you believe (& Din C-you are a true believer)Delete
Here's a key difference between now and 2000.Delete
Obama has spent the next several days hammering on the "different" Mitt Romney who showed up at the debate -- framing the debate as Romney vs. Romney and continuing the theme that Romney's stated "principles" really depends on the audience he is talking to at the moment.
And Obama's "Wall Street/Sesame Street" line has been played over and over and over on all the news networks, taking advantage of the one thing said during the debate that people remember (and were tweeting about at the rate of 17,000 per second) -- Romney's out of the blue pledge to cut the subsidy to PBS, mentioning Big Bird by name.
This is what Gore didn't do. And this is what Somerby cries "foul" about because the press didn't do it for him.
In other words, you have to take charge of the post-debate debate. Don't expect anyone else, especially the press, to do it for you.
It's always very compelling to see the debate loser "take charge" in the days after, once he gets his teleprompter and script back.Delete
The "key difference" between now and 2000 is actually "differences": 1) The left web is much stronger and more influential than it was in 2000. In fact, it exists, which it largely didn't then; 2) News organizations have fact checking, which aren't all that good but at least they exist; 3) The news media are no longer a source of the distortions, as they were then; 4) Paul Krugman.Delete
In fact, Gore's campaign DID talk about Bush's lies, but NOBODY ELSE DID, so the topic disappeared. Only someone who wasn't around then could make such a stupid statement.
til, news organizations had "fact checkers" long before now, and long before 2000. In fact, the practice began to spread in the 1970s as the influence television advertising became apparent, and "fact checking" columns became regular features during political seasons to check the claims made in ads.Delete
As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember Jeff Greenfield "fact checking" for ABC as far back as 1984, particularly after the debates.
There's a difference between occasionally doing fact checking and having fact checking being an established part of political reporting. The latter is relatively new; the first time I became really aware of it from mainstream sources was in 2004 or so, and it hasn't been a central part of the public discussion until the last few years. Kessler came on the scene in 2007, Politifact in 2008. So no, what passed for "fact checking" back then is nothing like what it is now.Delete
Yes, there is. But "fact-checking" has been an established part of political reporting for decades, and it was certainly very well established by 2000.Delete
Just because you became aware of it in 2004 doesn't mean it hadn't been around for long before that.
Good grief, Kessler and Politifact hardly invented it.
Yes, it is true that the Internet has given birth to a whole slew of new "fact-checking' Web sites, but you do realize there was both journalism and life long before the Internet, don't you?
Finally, "fact-checking" is hardly homogenous. It runs the gamut from good to bad. Any voter who relies heavily on "fact checkers" to tell him/her what is true or not is going to be pretty uninformed, and any candidate who relies on "fact checkers" as some sort of referee who calls fouls and keeps the game fair is going to have a sad election night.
Really? So tell me, who were these fact checkers before Kessler and Politifact? How often were they cited? Where did they hold forth? Which political commercials were their pronouncements carried in? Show me some evidence, not (yet another) wad of your own opinions.Delete
OK, Bob, if I watch will Gore get elected this time? If not, why bother to re-hash this angst laden topic?ReplyDelete
Bush lied, Gore didn't press his case in FL., deferred to the Supreme's and here we are.
I understand that the all versions of the media have low standards that they dare not reach, and I'm tired of it. So, in the wonderful rabbit hole of fact checking sites, media bias that twists itself into knots to spin shit into presidents, I'm leaving for Croatia, Costa Rica or anywhere I can where I don't understand their language, politics or TV.
somerby. robert somerby, says,ReplyDelete
“As Glastris correctly says, "virtually no one in the mainstream media...called Bush out on his dishonest numbers."
That's a remarkable, accurate statement: The **press corps** buried the truth.” [*emphasis mine]
[ . . . ]
“That’s what **journalists** are supposed to do, of course. But in October 2000, the fix was in. The press had been at war with Bill Clinton about his deeply disturbing blow jobs.
When Clinton escaped removal from office, they went to war with Al Gore.” [*emphasis mine]
[ . . . ]
“Chris worked for **Jack Welch** at the time—and Welch was making Chris very wealthy.” [*emphasis mine]
>>> somerby is engaged in an ongoing public relations propaganda campaign to save the mainstream media ownership from blame for the election of george bush junior. (aside from those with irish catholic heritage, i.e. welch, the only owner he ever seems to mention)
he throws the media front people as a group under the bus at the direction of his masters. those with irish catholic heriytage are blamed way out of proportion to their complicity because, most saliently, somerbys masters know that the americcan people generally hold americans of irish-catholic heritage in low regard and the press corp, of course, have the same attitude overall. the strategy is to use extant ethnic disharmony (which somerby has often explicitly rationalized and exacerbated) to fracture whatever job-solidarity the media front-people have among themselves –- the relatively small group of media-americans with irish cathoic heritage vs. the vastly bigger group of journalists who dont have irish-catholic heritage (and then thereby, in time, to split the american people similarly with regard to this issue.)
somerby was chosen for this project in part because he can claim some irish catholic ancestry himself. [although I believe from analyzing his remarks in this regard, that he is only one-quarter irish descent, but even if he were full, he wouldnt be the first person to betray his group.
somerby blames the journalists when in fact it was their editors and the editors bosses who were the true malefactors in the medias role in electing bush junior. ownership hires those they believe they can control and then exercise that control, tacitly or otherwise, with the threat of firing if they dont play ball.
welch is thrown under the bus to make less absolute the charge that somerby just goes after the front people. also wwelchs irish-catholic heritage plays into the underlying narrative that there was an american-with-irish-catholic-heritasge conspiracy against gore in order to deflect away from what was really an overall corporate conspiracy, using the corporate media as one tool to help carry it out.
for background also see somerbys incomparable archives (pre-combox):Delete
google: http://dailyhowler.com/ +irish +catholic
[note: must open up the resulting links from the above search. use 'ctrl f' to find quickly the search terms...then scan for pertinence to topic...if not useful, go on to the next google search result.]
edit of above bad google search:Delete
site:dailyhowler.com irish catholic
i just re-read my comment calling welch an "owner" and referring to the "owners" of the rest of the media companies. of course welch (retired 2001) didn't own general electric or nbc; the stock holders did. the same for the other big media companies. i should have said the ceo or upper management.Delete
yikes! warning - youre a certifiable lunatic!Delete
pretty cool! :)
Calling lowercase guy's case manager!!! Someone's gone off their meds again.ReplyDelete
hes been fired.Delete
To be fair, Joan Walsh HAS written about how Matthews and others screwed Gore, and it's in his own archives. You can't really expect her to write about it every week.ReplyDelete
Why not, Greg? Somerby writes about it every week.Delete
"Joan Walsh HAS written about how Matthews screwed Gore"Delete
Link or bullshit, Greg!
1) lowercaseguy is *still* off his meds.
2) Anonymous still pretends the complaint about the 2000 election isn't about the press making up and repeating lies about Gore but the press merely not correcting those lies told by others ("the press didn't do it for him").
3) Greg thinks (sic) this blog isn't fair enough to Joan Walsh. Well, Walsh *has* occasionally said good things, and been praised here for them (google "Joan Walsh for president"), but the main beef against her regarding this issue has always been the way she refused/refuses (she edited at Salon all through the relevant period) to call out your "liberal" leaders, and goes smiling and grinning on their programs (google "beard Joan Walsh").
Can Greg point to where "Joan Walsh has written about how Chris Matthews screwed Gore?" -- I'd guess that no, he can't.
You CAN'T make them up!
And instead of offering anything substantial to the discussion, the poster that calls himself "Eye Dee" today once again throws a stinkbomb into the room and runs off giggling, convinced of his own cleverness.Delete
Actually all three of those were good points, I thought.Delete
If you can't argue them, maybe one was your stinkbomb and you didn't like being called on it?
Hmm. You aren't lowercaseguy -- too wedded to standard English communication. And Greg would use his own handle.
So, you're the Anonymous pretender.
Run away, little faker.
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تقدم شركة المستقبل افضل الخدمات المميزة فى اعمال الشراء للاثاث المستعمل بالرياص ومن خلال اعلى الاسعار المميزة وتقديم المتخصصون فى اعمال الشراء للاثاث والتعرف على كافة التفاصيل ومن خلال الخبرة الواسعة فى هذا المجال من اكثر من 10 سنوات تقريبا ، فلدينا فريق متخصص من العمل المميز والخبرة التى تساعد فى انجاز مهام الشراء لابعد الحدود ومن خلال الاتصال بشركة المستقبل تقوم الشركة بارسال المندوب المتخصص فى اعمال الشراء لكافة القطع الاثاثية المتواجدة فى المكان .
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هناك الكثير من السيدات التى تقوم باعمال الشراء للاثاث او رغبة فى تغير ديكور خاص بالمنزل او القيام بشراء تحف جديدة او انتيكات ، وتبقى مشكلة وهى القيام بالتخلص من الاثاث القديم مما يؤدى الى التعرض الى تركة فى مكان فى المنزل او خارج المنزل فى كلتا الحالتين يؤدى الى التعرض الى المشكلات فى الفوضى والازدحام .
تخلص من ترك الاثاث دون اى فائدة وتخلص من القيام بالاستعانة بالشركات او التجار حتى يتم القيام باعمال الشراء للاثاث بغرض التخلص منة فقط دون ان تستفد بالاسعار ، فشركة المستقبل من اهم الشركات التى تعمل على شراء القطع الاثاث المتواجدة فى المكان والاجهزة الكهربائية والمفروشات المتواجدة فتواصل على الارقام المتواجدة على الصفحة او اطلب الخدمة بشكل مباشر .
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تعتمد شركة المستقبل على عدد من الخدمات المميزة حتى تحقق افضل الخدمات التى تتناسب مع جميع عملائنا الكرام فى الشراء من اهم ما تقوم بية الاتى :-
1. 1- عند الاتصال بشركة المستقبل ترسل المندوب للمعاينة للاثاث المتواجد فى المكان ، او من الممكن ان يتم ارسال الصور عبر الحساب الخاص بالشركة لمعاينة الاثاث .
2. 2- الاهتمام باعطاء عملاء الشركة الاسعار الحقيقية والدفع عن طريق الكاش بشكل فورى عقب الاتفاق مباشرا .
3. 3- الاهتمام باعمال التغليف الخاصة بالشركة والنقل على دون ام يتم التعرض الى اى مصاريف اضافية .
4. 4- القيام بشراء كافة الاغراض المتواجدة لديكم فكلما ارتفعت قيمة القطع وزادة جودة والمتانة وصلاحيتة فى الاستخدام بعد ان يتم الشراء كلما كان اسعار مرتفعة .
5. شركة شراء اثاث مستعمل بجدة
6. محلات الاثاث المستعمل بجدة
عملية تقييم الاثاث وتسعيرة من الخدمات التى تتميز بية شركة شراء اثاث مستعمل بالقصيم ونهتم بتقديم خدمة عادلة سليمة تميزنا عن غيرنا من الشركات التى تعمل فى نفس المجال .
مميزات الاستعانة بشركة شراء اثاث مستعمل بجدة
ارقام الاثاث المستعمل
من اهم الخدمات التى استطاعت ان تنفرد بية شركة المستقبل هى سرعة تلبية طلب عملاء الشركة والاهتمام بتقديم الاسعار العادلة ، بالاضافة الى ان الشركة لديه فروع فى كل مكان فى المملكة من اجل ان يتم التخلص من كافة الاغراض المتواجدة واصبحت لا قيمة لة .
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