TUESDAY, AUGUST 4, 2026
Endless approaches to fury: The latest bizarre MAGA meltdown, this time involving the reflecting pool?
Reflections on the furious behavior of Secretary Kennedy on Sunday's State of The Union, complete with the kooky misstatements? Reflections on the pitiful way the kidz on The Five pretended he masterfully nailed it?
Please, dear God, no thanks! Instead, how about a passing bit of puzzlement concerning the nature of translation? How about something that doesn't involve mental illness and the refusal to talk about same?
Last Friday evening, we posted a tiny passage from Book IX of the Iliad, courtesy of Robert Fagles. Odysseus and two others have been dispatched by Agamemnon to try to reason with Achilles, who's sulking in his tents.
Achilles' capacity for fury takes us even beyond that of a certain sitting president. As the embassy approaches the warrior's tents, Fagles hands us this:
So Ajax and Odysseus made their way at once
where the battle lines of breakers crash and drag,
praying hard to the god who moves and shakes the earth
that they might bring the proud heart of Achilles
round with speed and ease.
For us, "where the breakers crash and drag" is an inexhaustible treasure. As a child, before we'd created our own disasters, we happened to summer right there!
"Praying hard to the god who moves and shakes the earth?" That has us trudging with the challenged pair as they approach their challenge.
We recently looked at the 1951 translation of that same passage by Richmond Lattimore. That's the translation we started with. This is what we found:
So these two walked along the strand of the sea deep-thundering
with many prayers to the holder and shaker of the earth,
that they might readily persuade the great heart of Aiakides.
Wow! That wouldn't have grabbed us at all. And that was all he wrote!
True story! When we lazily looked for a way to copy and paste the Lattimore text, up popped a book review in the Washington Post from September 15, 1990. Discussing the new translation by Fagles, Mary Lefkowitz started like this:
THE WRATH OF ACHILLES
HOMER: THE ILIAD Translated by Robert Fagles Introduction and Notes by Bernard Knox Viking. 683 pp. $35
FOR MORE than a thousand years the most popular book in the Greek-speaking world was Homer's Iliad. It was studied and quoted in 5th-century Athens. It was recited to crowds from Asia Minor at the great festival of Apollo at Delos. Centuries afterwards in remote outposts, it was read eagerly and even translated by people who knew Greek only as a second language.
No single work of literature has had such a pervasive influence on other writing, since it was from the story of Achilles's anger and its deadly consequences that the notion of the "tragic flaw" ultimately derives. It was from Homer that students learned the basic patterns of rhetoric (Achilles is a fine speaker) and came to know about the capricious and dangerous character of their gods. And it was Homer too that provided young people with their first cruelly realistic impressions of the nature of human life.
Perhaps surprisingly for those who now imagine that dead white males can write only about their own "values," over the years Homer's many audiences included women, since women (like men) of the propertied classes learned to read and write. It was he who first portrayed them in their important role as survivors and the continuers of the culture that the men sought in their violence to destroy. It is Homer also who portrays the Greeks and their Trojan enemies with equal sympathy, and who shows that, ultimately, victors can suffer losses as great as the defeated in a war. As such The Iliad deserves to keep its place on the list of the books that every educated person ought to read.
Achilles's anger and its deadly consequences! And then, so on from there.
Before long, Lefkowitz begins discussing the characteristics of several different translations. For her sample passage, this is the one she chose--and no, we aren't making this up:
Here, first in Lattimore's translation, are a few lines (182-84) from Iliad IX, the "book" (or papyrus book-roll) that was most people's favorite in antiquity. Agamemnon, leader of the Greek army, has decided to apologize for the quarrel he started with Achilles, and to make amends for it. He sends ambassadors to Achilles, who in his anger has withdrawn from the fighting; these are Achilles's old tutor, Phoenix, and two of Achilles's friends, the great heroes Ajax (or in Greek, Aias) and Odysseus.
So these two walked along the strand of the sea deep-thundering
with many prayers to the holder and shaker of the earth,
that they might readily persuade the great heart of Aiakides.
All in all, go figure! From there, she moves to the Robert Fitzgerald translation (1974), then on to Professor Fagles.
She describes the pros and cons of the three renditions. Regarding the Fagles translation of that passage, this is what she says:
Because I know what the original says, I am more comfortable with Lattimore. But Fagles' translation will be far more accessible to non-specialists because it can be understood straight off. And the Fagles version also offers Bernard Knox's concise and informative introduction, which even Lattimore loyalists ought to read.
So much for those Lattimore loyalists! Overall, her assessment of the Fagles effort was this:
Robert Fagles now offers a verse translation that explains what readers need to know, in clear, vigorous language that still retains a sense of the sweep and the sonority of the original.
Following Phoenix,
Aias and Odysseus walked together
beside the tumbling clamorous whispering sea,
praying hard to the girdler of the islands
that they might easily sway their great friend's heart.
Aias is an alternate version of Ajax, as we all learn here.
"He sends ambassadors to Achilles, who in his anger has withdrawn from the fighting; these are Achilles's old tutor, Phoenix, and two of Achilles's friends, the great heroes Ajax (or in Greek, Aias) and Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteSo these two walked along the strand of the sea deep-thundering..."
What happened to the third messenger? The quote describes three people sent, but the poem says "these two walked". Hard to see how this is clearer to uninformed readers.
One goal of translation must be to preserve the intentions of the author. That would make the Lattimore version preferred according to Lefkowitz, who notes that she can read the original Greek. This is the problem with translations of the Bible into today's vernacular speech. It is perhaps clearer in meaning to someone who hasn't read older translations that have retained more archaic references and language patterns, but it has none of the beauty and charm of the older versions. So, it perhaps depends on your purposes which you might prefer.
If Somerby is going to make arguments about how society functioned in ancient times, he should perhaps stick as closely as possible with the original writing, not easier to read translations.
Based on the way Somerby has discussed Knox, the Professor who wrote the Preface to the Fagles translation, reading that interpretation first would tend to bias a reader and interfere with forming one's own ideas about what the text is saying. This is especially so when Knox claims that the point of the poem is that military strength must be faced with stronger military strength if one is not to be defeated, as he says about Troy. Was the point of the poem really a military strategy treatise?
Once again, Somerby quotes from the Preface and from the beginning of the poem. He may have read the whole Iliad, but nothing suggests he has done so.
I see that Somerby has updated the text to include Phoenix.
DeleteObviously, Phoenix went to AZ. You can verify that using Google Maps.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete"...furious behavior of Secretary Kennedy..."
Oh, whoa. Somehow I doubt very much that Secretary Kennedy or anyone else among the Others, anyone outside of your silo, could ever get more hysterical than an average Dumbocrat. Including yourself.
Haitian immigrants are eating our jobs!
DeleteGood luck finding people more hysterical than the snowflakes crying in public because they were inconvenienced by the country trying to save lives during a deadly global pandemic.
DeleteYou'll need it.
RFK Jr: Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist
DeleteBASH: Well you're not either!
[RFK gets flustered]
This was a pitiful interview. The two of them were arguing and attacking each other, but neither one knew what s/he was talking about. Both Kennedy and Bash came off badly.
DeleteOr more likely, you don’t know enough yourself to assess Bash or RFK Jr.
Delete“ both of them came off badly? “
DeleteUh, it was not a contest to see who “came off” better. The government official shouldn’t look and act like a deranged maniac, although he is that.
Be it as it may, David, still: considering permanent Dumbocrat squealing and hysteria, complaining about "furious behavior of Secretary Kennedy" is just silly.
DeleteAgreed, 10:25, RFK’s lies and misinformation were the more troubling than his losing his temper.
DeleteThe old adage that applies here:"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get filthy and the pig loves it."
DeleteThey are both pigs.
DeleteThere is something seriously the fuck wrong with you, David. Dana Bash is not a fucking cabinet member of the Executive Branch as Secretary of Health and Human Services, you fucking imbecile.
DeleteThe party of personal responsibility strikes again. You want all the fucking power but none of the fucking responsibility. Fuck you, David.
I sing of the rage of the nutcases. Pity them, said no one in the Iliad.
ReplyDeleteKnox's account of the fictional sacking of Troy sounds a lot like the real thing...
ReplyDeleteme: what does evidence suggest happened to the people taken as slaves when Rome sacked Carthage in the final war between the two cities? what happened to the women, children, and men?
Google AI: Historical and archaeological evidence paints a harrowing, devastating picture of what happened to the people of Carthage at the climax of the Third Punic War in 146 BC.Out of a pre-war metropolis estimated between 250,000 and 700,000 people, only about 50,000 starved, deeply traumatized survivors were left alive to be taken into slavery. The remaining 80% to 90% of the population perished during the three-year siege, from hunger and disease, or in the catastrophic six-day street-by-street massacre when Roman troops breached the walls.The specific fates of the men, women, and children differed dramatically based on ancient Roman practices of military enslavement, economics, and gender roles.
What Happened to the Men?For adult Carthaginian men, the immediate aftermath of the city's fall was overwhelmingly fatal, with very few surviving to reach the slave markets.
The Fighting-Age Purge: Roman military custom dictate that adult males of military age who resisted until the end were largely put to the sword during the sack. The Romans considered them an ongoing security risk.
The Mass Suicide at the Citadel: The absolute last holdouts of the city—about 900 Roman deserters and hardline Carthaginian soldiers—barricaded themselves in the high Temple of Eshmun on the Byrsa hill. Knowing they would face gruesome torture or crucifixion by the Romans, they set fire to the temple and chose to burn alive rather than be captured.
Gladiatorial Arenas and Forced Labor: The small fraction of men who did survive to be enslaved were treated as highly dangerous. Evidence suggests they were separated from their families and sold individually to Roman state mines, heavy agricultural estates (latifundia), or to gladiatorial managers. Scholars note that North Africans became a common demographic in early Roman gladiatorial arenas, forced to re-enact Roman victories.
The Exception (Hasdrubal): The Carthaginian general, Hasdrubal the Boeotarch, surrendered directly to the Roman general Scipio Aemilianus to save his own life. He was spared and sent to Italy, where he lived out his remaining years under house arrest as a trophy of Roman dominance.
What Happened to the Women?The survival rate for women was slightly higher than for men, but their subjection to Roman slavery was deeply brutal, dictated by the legal status of enslaved women as res (property).
Systematic Assault: During the six days of house-to-house clearing, ancient historians note that Roman soldiers actively rounded up women. Before they ever reached an official auction block, these captives were subjected to systemic sexual violence by the victors.
Domestic and Urban Servitude: At the slave markets, Carthaginian women were highly sought after by wealthy elite Roman families as domestic house slaves, weavers, and cooks. Because Punic society was highly sophisticated, literate, and urbanized, these women were viewed as premium domestic property compared to slaves captured from tribal regions in Gaul or Hispania.
The Symbolic Suicide of Hasdrubal’s Wife: The most famous female figure of the sack was the wife of General Hasdrubal. When she saw her husband surrender to Scipio for mercy, ancient historians record that she publicly cursed his cowardice from the roof of the burning Temple of Eshmun, slaughtered her own children, threw their bodies into the flames, and then jumped in after them.
What Happened to the Children?Children made up a massive portion of the 50,000 survivors, but their fates were arguably the most thoroughly devastating in terms of the erasure of Carthaginian identity.The "Fire Sale" and Separated Lots: Slave traders from across the entire Mediterranean basin swarmed the Roman military camp outside Carthage, purchasing captives in massive bulk lots. Children were systematically stripped away from their surviving mothers to be sold individually, maximizing profits for the traders.
DeleteThe Lifespan of Enslaved Children: Younger children were frequently sold into domestic service, while adolescent boys were sent to grueling agricultural estates. Due to the trauma of the siege, malnutrition, and the shock of displacement, historical data on Roman slavery shows that enslaved children faced staggeringly high mortality rates within their first few years of captivity.
Total Cultural Assimilation: Because they were separated from their families and dispersed across Italy, Greece, and Spain, Carthaginian children grew up completely cut off from their heritage. They were forced to take Latin names, speak Latin or Greek, and abandon their native Punic language and religion. Within a single generation, the descendants of these children were entirely absorbed into the lower-class fabric of the Roman world, effectively erasing their Punic lineage.
The Logistics: How Were They Dispersed?The sale of 50,000 people simultaneously would typically crash local slave markets by causing a massive oversupply. To prevent this and maximize revenue for the Roman treasury, the military used highly calculated logistics.
The Roman State Auction: Scipio Aemilianus set up a formal military auction (sub hasta) right outside the smoking ruins of the city.
Global Scattering: The slaves were not kept in North Africa. Rome explicitly wanted to prevent any future Punic uprisings. Captives were deliberately scattered to different corners of the Mediterranean. A Carthaginian woman might end up in a villa in Pompeii, while a teenager might be sent to a vineyard in Greece or an olive grove in Spain.
The Rural Punic Survivors: It is worth noting that while the urban elite of the city of Carthage were entirely destroyed or enslaved, the rural Punic populations living in smaller farming villages outside the capital were largely left alone. They were forced to pay heavy taxes to Rome, and over the next two centuries, they gradually intermarried and assimilated into the newly formed Roman province of Africa.
me: have there been any great works of literature about the sack of carthage that laments the human tragedy
ReplyDeleteGoogle AI: Yes, several prominent works of literature and historical accounts directly confront and lament the horrific human tragedy of the final sack of Carthage in 146 BC. Because the Romans systematically burned the city to the ground, massacred up to 90% of its population, and sold the remaining 50,000 traumatized survivors into slavery, the event has lingered in literary history as one of the ancient world's most haunting examples of total genocide.The most notable works of literature and ancient texts that focus heavily on the tragedy include:
1. Ancient Literature & Eye-Witness Laments: Ironically, the earliest and most poignant lamentation of the tragedy comes from the Roman conqueror himself, preserved in classical histories: Polybius’ The Histories: The Greek historian Polybius was an eyewitness to the destruction, standing right next to the Roman general, Scipio Aemilianus, as the city burned. He recorded that Scipio wept openly as he watched the ancient metropolis turn to ash. Instead of rejoicing, Scipio famously quoted Homer’s Iliad regarding the inevitable doom of Troy: "The day shall come when sacred Troy shall fall, and Priam, and the people of the spear-wielding Priam." Scipio realized in horror that one day, Rome would suffer the same tragic fate.
Appian’s Punic Wars: Writing heavily from eyewitness accounts, the historian Appian provides a agonizing literary description of the six-day street-by-street slaughter. He vividly recounts the human cost: families hidden in the upper stories of houses being burned alive, people falling from collapsing buildings into streets choked with blood, and Roman cavalry horses trampling over the bodies of the dead and dying.
2. Modern Historical Fiction & Novels: Several contemporary writers have used the medium of fiction to specifically highlight the suffering of the Carthaginian civilians:Carthage by Peter Huby: This chilling novel explicitly frames the fall of the city as a historical genocide. Instead of focusing on Roman military glory, Huby’s Carthage follows seven different lives inescapably caught in the terror, treachery, and utter cruelty of the final three-year siege.The Death of Carthage by Robin E. Levin: This sweeping three-part saga concludes with a harrowing first-person account of the third Punic War. The final book is narrated by a bilingual translator named Ectorius, who witnesses the horrifying systematic erasure of Punic civilization from the inside.Carthage by Ross Leckie: The final book in Leckie's acclaimed Punic trilogy (following Hannibal and Scipio) handles the politics of Rome's ruling class with deep cynicism. It is written as a profoundly tragic tale focused heavily on the themes of pain, loss, and the absolute horror of a civilization realizing it is being completely obliterated.3. Drama and PoetryLe Sac de Carthage by Jean de La Serre (1642): A 17th-century French prose tragedy play that uses classical dramatic conventions to stage the extreme emotional grief, romantic devastation, and political hopelessness of the final Carthaginian leaders as their city collapses around them.