We’re off on a mission of no known importance!


Back-to-school questions on hold:
Are black kids disciplined more harshly in Southern schools than in the rest of the country? Also, what kind of progress has been recorded in the New Orleans schools?

The mainstream press corps hasn’t produced much back-to-school journalism this year. In all honesty, nobody gives a flying fig about these tedious topics, except to the extent that they can be used to advance preferred elite narratives about our ratty public school teachers with their infernal unions.

How strange! NAEP scores by our black and Hispanic kids are way up in the past twenty years! But by dint of immutable Hard Pundit Law, you aren’t allowed to hear that.

That said, we’ll return to those questions about public schools when our full services resume after Labor Day. We’ll also look at the press corps’ reporting of new national SAT scores.

(As of this morning, the College Board hasn’t released its new SAT data.)

For today, we’re off on a mission of no clear import, heading north to visit friends. As we head out, we’re tortured by a recent Slate piece, which we recommend for Labor Day reading.

In the piece which has tortured our sleep, David Auerbach explains, or seems to explain, Wittgenstein’s early and late periods. Go ahead! Just for starters, see if you have any idea what any of this might mean:
AUERBACH (9/1/15): Wittgenstein’s first period, culminating in 1921’s Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (which Pears had co-translated), drew heavily on Bertrand Russell’s work in philosophical logic…The Tractatus makes an ambitious and ostensibly definitive attempt to chart out the relationship between language and the world. Alongside Russell’s work, it was tremendously influential on logicians, yet Wittgenstein later ended up rejecting one of its central premises: that our linguistic statements depict true or false states of affairs, and that formal logic provided the structure that regulates our construction of these statements. Language and the world share logical form, which is also the form of reality. This attempt to regiment language as formal logic went on to be an article of faith for many computer scientists and cognitive scientists for decades, as well as exerting a foundational influence on Noam Chomsky’s linguistics.
We’re not saying that any of that is right or wrong. Our question is more basic than that. Do you have any idea what those highlighted statements might mean?

Questions to guide your beach reading:

Did Wittgenstein really end up rejecting the idea “that our linguistic statements depict true or false states of affairs?” (It isn’t clear that Auerbach is making that claim. But it also isn’t clear that he isn’t.)

On its face, that doesn’t exactly seem to make sense. Surely, some of our statements describe or report true states of affairs. Effortlessly, we can give an example:

“There once was a fellow named Jake.”

What would it mean to reject the idea that our linguistic statements report or describe true or false states of affairs? We don’t have the slightest idea. (Does Auerbach’s somewhat implausible statement turn on the word “depict?”)

Maybe Auerbach wants us to take the full package he offers. In this reading, Wittgenstein ended up rejecting the idea that “formal logic provides the structure that regulates our construction of these statements”—that “language and the world share logical form, which is also the form of reality.”

Tell the truth. Do you have any idea what such statements might mean? Could you paraphrase those statements—put them in your own words?

Next week, we’re going to show you what happened last week when the mainstream press corps tried to report the findings of a new Penn study—a study of suspensions and expulsions of black public school kids in thirteen Southern states.

What happened last week wasn’t pretty. In fact, as you'll see after Labor Day, that’s a big huge large understatement.

Are we the humans currently able to reason at all? To some extent, you could almost say that’s a question Wittgenstein almost was asking.

Today, with most of our gatekeepers gone, the answer to that question often seems discouraging. Have you ever watched the Morning Joe gang try to conduct a discussion?

At any rate, why not take Wittgenstein to the beach? If you do, don’t forget to check the world’s logical form!


  1. "How strange! NAEP scores by our black and Hispanic kids are way up in the past twenty years! But by dint of immutable Hard Pundit Law, you aren’t allowed to hear that."

    What you aren't allowed to hear by dint of Hard Howler Hiding:

    Long Term Trend NAEP since it began.

    17 Year Old Reading

    1975 241
    1988 (Historic High) 274
    2012 (Most Recent) 269

    1975 252
    1990 (Historic High) 275
    2012 (Most Recent) 274

    17 Year Old Math

    1978 268
    1990 (Historic High) 289
    2012 (Most Recent) 288


    1978 276
    1992 (20 years ago) 292
    2012 (Historic High) 294

    That said, if you really care about black kids, like Bob Somerby, you will only want to look at how well they do in the middle years of schooling (4th and 8th grade) on the test devised in 1990.

    Alas!, for Bob's new Stormer friends. the trend for 17 year old white kids isn't any prettier. They have gained 2 points in reading in the last twenty years but lost 2 in reading.

    Gack! for Bob's long term friends, please suggest we eliminate testing for high school kids. We're not saying that is right or wrong, but if these figures torture your sleep, why not contemplate eliminating high school altogether. According to our gold standard test, it doesn't seem to be adding much to the equation and certainly messes up the meme.

    1. Uh, oh, Stormers. We edited poorly. The 2 point loss for Real American teens in the last twenty years was in reading. The 2 point gain was in math. Pardon our libtard moment.*

      *Libtardation is a product of lazy, dumb, immoral behavior (which nobody likes).

    2. The data clearly shows we need to pay more for teacher retirement packages.

    3. You reply to this sick troll and he doesn't bother reading a word of what you've written. He keeps coming back with the same complaints over and over, impervious to anyone else's input. I realize that is a symptom of schizophrenia, but why does this person have to keep inflicting this stuff on these blog comments?

      I guess another symptom of schizophrenia is inability to recognize and respond to social signals about appropriate behavior. This troll doesn't pay any attention when people tell him he is a nuisance. It seems like he only wants to express his undying hostility toward Somerby by posting pseudo-analysis of NAEP scores without being willing to engage any counter-arguments. He might as well be having a discussion only with himself -- Somerby doesn't care what he writes and he doesn't care what any of the rest of us write. If that isn't autistic, it is the next best thing.

      So, KZ, buy a puppy, get a part-time job, plant a flower garden, talk a walk in the trees, have lunch with a friend -- do something more constructive with your time. You aren't wanted here.

    4. 1:31 you do not know who 12:25 is yet you launch a long, incredible attack without refuting any of the data. I saw no analysis, pseudo or otherwise, only data. I assume the figures can be checked at the NAEP site.

    5. Nobody with a K or ZSeptember 3, 2015 at 2:27 PM

      To: Anonymous @ 1:59

      Anonymous @ 1:31 thinks he or she know who I am. I think I know who she or he is. In our view he/she is right about one thing. I am impervious to his/her input. She/he will not respond to your suggestion. If you wish to check my numbers, try here:


      To: Anonymous @ 1:14

      If you spend more on teacher retirement you will also have to increase spending on police salaries. Our high schools do serve a useful social function even if they do not add value to the gains realized by our amazing eighth graders. Test scores aren't everything.

    6. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/sat-scores-at-lowest-level-in-10-years-fueling-worries-about-high-schools/

    7. Maryland SAT scores decline for third year in a row


    8. Dogs are popular visitors in hospitals and senior centers, but now another group is reaping the benefits of some snuggle time with a furry friend — college students.


    9. People have explained to KZ repeatedly why the 17 year olds scores are problematic, why the math scores show higher gains that the reading scores, why it matters that there are fewer dropouts in the 17 year old scores. KZ doesn't engage with any arguments. His sole purpose here is to attack Somerby. He is off his meds again, as evidence by his string of comments yesterday. He is a schizophrenic with an obsession about Somerby and he needs to focus on someone else. It is not right that Somerby should have to be the focus of someone's delusions and hostility simply for writing a blog.

    10. 7:22, I do not know if the person you call KZ is KZ. I do know you did not engage in an argument or even discussion to begin with, you simply attacked the person who made the comment at 12:25.

      I will say that if more of the population showing remarkable score gains at the 8th grade level stay in school then the score gains should continue if they are tested again 3 or 4 years later.

      I will also say that whatever you (and it seems to be you alone) have been telling whomever it is you call KZ about math scores showing higher gains than reading scores, it is a fairly silly point. The score gains above posted by black and Hispanic students are larger in reading than math. They are just way more than two decades old. The numbers above show that regardless of whether the students are tested in math or reading, and regardless of race or ethnicity, scores gains are not there in the last twenty or so years when the students being tested are the ones about to finish our public school system.

      You make some pretty wild statements about mental disorders about someone I am sure you never met since you regularly accuse anonymous commenters of being someone you don't like. I have no idea if that is a symptom
      of anything but it does not demonstrate any high degree of intelligence.

    11. I read the exchange @ 12:25/ @ 7:22 had with the real KZ just three days ago. It seems KZ did respond to arguments at that time.

      KZ was noting that Somerby was raising suspicions because New Orleans did not participate in an NAEP program for urban schools. Somerby either did not know or try to find out that there was nothing to be suspicious about. New Orleans simply was not eligible to participate. The commenter's response was to attack reporters for not reporting on the fact that New Orleans was not eligible. Then the commenter told KZ to go away. KZ responded that what Bob was writing about were letters to the editor and op-ed pieces, not any article written by a reporter. The commenter then went away. As happened here.

    12. What's happened here is that no one wants to discuss anything with trolls.

    13. Nobody with a K or Z.September 6, 2015 at 1:38 PM

      Pointing out that Somerby falsely suggested there was something suspicious about New Orleans not participating in a program for which they are not eligible is trollery all right.

    14. Somerby's statement that New Orleans should have compared their scores to NAEP is correct. If there is a reason why they didn't, that should have been stated, and would have been by someone technically competent. It is helpful that KZ added info about their ineligibility. A civil person would have just informed everyone. He had to make it into an attack on Somerby -- as usual. That's what makes him a troll instead of a commenter.

    15. Somerby's statement that New Orleans should have compared NAEP scores New Orleans did not and never has had is the statement of someone who is faking his expertise in matters related to the "Gold Standard" test. Your comment that Somerby was "correct" in making this mistake is a comment bodering on idiocy.

      Your statement that KZ was "helpful" but uncivil is further demonstration of a devotion to Somerby that flirts with lunacy. Go back to the way in which Somerby raised suspicions about New Orleans and the Superintendent of Education.

      [QUOTE]"White is forced to use the ACT because New Orleans doesn’t take part in the NAEP! And yes, that makes us a bit suspicious:

      Twenty-one major urban districts now take part in this invaluable program. New York and Chicago? LA, DC and Atlanta? All these cities take part in the program.

      The New Orleans schools still don’t.

      Given the way our “discourse” works, no one ever asks why that is......

      Why doesn’t New Orleans take part in the NAEP? A person with a skeptical streak will automatically wonder. But given the way our “discourse” works, no one will ever ask that question...."[END QUOTE]

      Bob Somerby suggested New Orleans was at fault for not participating in something they are not eligible to participate in. And he said nobody would ask why. KZ did. Bob did not. Or he just raised suspicions for absolutely no good reason.

      That doesn't make KZ a troll. It makes Somerby a fake and you his mark. And an easy one at that.

    16. I'm a little more concerned with Somerby's assertion that "NAEP scores by our black and Hispanic kids are way up without qualifying it to reflect that scores among all 4th and 8th graders are up but high school scores are not.

    17. On several occasions in the past I have taken the time to explain why the 17 year old scores are problematic as a measure of academic achievement and why they do not show the same improvement as the 4th and 8th grade scores. It is a waste of time to keep trying to address this complaint -- which is raised every single time Somerby claims black and Hispanic kids have made progress. That's because these trolls are not interested in discussing academic achievement -- they are only interested in criticizing Somerby. Someone who is only interested in criticizing Somerby is, by definition, a TROLL.

    18. You made no effort to address the issue of Somerby's error about New Orleans and the TUDA program of NAEP raised by @ 6:28

      You have however, suggested that somebody should have explained why New Orleans did not have data to compare for a testing program they have never been eligible to participate in. By that standard, Somerby should always explain why he does not use data which is and has been available from NAEP testing for 17 year olds and 12th graders but which he usually elects to ignore.

      Your response to older students showing no improvement ("....in the past I have taken the time to explain") is not an explanation. It is an excuse. Nobody can verify the claim of an anonymous commenter that they have done something previously.

    19. @ 8:15 you seem to be saying black and Hispanic academic achievement isn't worth discussing after the students leave 8th grade.

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  2. Forget Wittgenstein. Study Chomsky, both his linguistic research and his political analysis.

    1. A great deal has been written about reference philosophy and the relationship between language and thought (and language and logic) since Wittgenstein.

    2. I really appreciate your care in changing the outdated VDare references to Stormer references.

    3. Whoops, that reply was meant for 12:25

    4. If the shoe fits ....

    5. Nobody with a Z or K eitherSeptember 3, 2015 at 2:31 PM

      To maj:

      I figured you would be pleased since you raised the complaint earlier. VDare readers couldn't light a cross if you put a torch in their hands and a gave them a good shove in the right direction.

    6. Wittgenstein himself used to go to the movies of Betty Grable and sit in the front row.

  3. SAT Scores At The Lowest Point in a Decade


    1. Wealth and fame are very destructive. Mixed with Trump-like self-adoration, wealth and fame really do kill.

    2. SAT scores are lower because the number of students taking the test are higher. When you have more marginal students taking the test, the mean will be lower. This isn't rocket science.

    3. SAT test taking is up 1%. SAT scores are down by 7%. That isn't rocket science either except for students at Somerby's School of Slipshod Statistics.

    4. @7:18

      When the current version of the SAT is the easiest to achieve a high score and there are numerous courses on how to beat the SAT, and the scores are still the lowest on record, the American public school system is merely a diploma machine. It's not rocket science.


    5. That means the 1% of additional students taking the test were so poorly prepared that they lowered the mean by 7%.

      For example, if all students in a district were required to take it, the students with no goals related to college and no interest in doing well might not take it seriously and could get very low scores. If 1% of students scored close to chance 25% correct, they could lower the mean a lot more than their proportion of the student population.

    6. Students with fee waivers are up 25.1 % compared to 23.6 previously. Low income correlates with lower scores. Also, more colleges are not requiring the the SAT -- that may be introducing some bias in who takes the test. Some states are requiring all students to take it. Why include scores of students with no intention of attending college?

    7. "That means the 1% of additional students taking the test were so poorly prepared that they lowered the mean by 7%."

      Only if they are all as foolish as you are. The 1% increase in test takers is barely above the rate of population increase.

    8. The score declines would be a lot worse if it were not for all the Asians taking the test.

    9. America no longer wins against the Asians.

  4. Exclusive: Former Clinton aide has rebuffed FBI and State Department investigators in email probe

    by Michael Isikoff

    1. If we are going to have a woman this year it will be up to Elizabeth Warren to save us from Carly Fiorina.

    2. Liz Warren is too busy having a pow wow with VP Biden. Liz says HRC speak with forked tongue.

    3. Anybody have insecticide? The cockroach is back.

    4. Michael Isikoff? He of CoupGate infamy back in the 1990s?

    5. I am not sure Phoenix Woman. I'll have to take the fifth on that.

  5. There once was a fellow named Jake
    Who found a reporting mistake
    But he wasn’t as mean
    As Bob Somerby’s been
    Bob says ALL reporting is fake.

    1. There once was a fellow named Dave
      Who dwelt by the sea in a cave
      But Ben Carson came by
      With a drone from the sky
      Saying "illegals all belong in the grave"

      But I'm legal shouted Dave in CA
      You shouldn't have shot me that way
      Ben Carson just stared
      You think that I cared
      You looked brown, so I blew you away


  6. How To Get Your Lost Husband Back

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  7. Guess Bob will tackle how the press treated the ACT scores when he gets back as well. Those were released last week and more students take it than the SAT. Bob may know that. Or he might not. You can't be sure. It seems covering Rachel Maddow repeating herself was more important.

    I liked last year's back to school coverage best. Houses of Journalist County. Featuring Meredith Vieira. A journalist from long, long ago.

    1. Given the way Maddow was plugging them, don't you want to know whether she owns a share in Public Policy Polling, consults for them or is in some way connected to that firm? Would it be a conflict of interest if she were? Payola comes in a variety of forms. Why would she work so hard to promote their firm?

      I realize you are only here to knock Somerby, but you might think about the points he raises occasionally. What innocent explanation can you think of for her repeated mention of Public Policy Polling?

    2. @ 12:42 how could you be so naive, or else so malevolent about Bob Somerby? Didn't you carefully read that his suggested allegations that Rachel Maddow was a crook in bed with PPP were first raised by the wailing analysts he goes to visit every night in the private quarters of his sprawling campus home before bed. Those analysts have never led Somerby astray before!

      PS: Please go away and do not tell us Somerby took the initiative in creating the analysts. Everybody knows you are just here to hurt our national treasure.

    3. I don't know if Somerby will mention ACT test scores and coverage.

      The SAT was the gold standard of college admissions testing when he got into college a half century ago.

    4. Anonymous @ 12:52 wouldn't you agree that wealth and fame are very destructive? Mixed with Trump-like self-adoration, wealth and fame really do kill? Would you be at all surprised to read Maddow was found dead on a toilet with peanut butter and banana sandwich in her bloodstream?

    5. "What innocent explanation can you think of for her repeated mention of Public Policy Polling?"

      She is as repetitive as Bob Somerby?

    6. That PPP post was several days ago. Don't tell me the Maddowsketeers are still butthurt over it.

    7. I don't think the Maddowsketeer brought up PPP. I believe that was one of the Bobfans who keeps checking on what is in her pants.

    8. I liked the Meredith Vieira segment last year. I just wish more journalist homes in journalist county had been covered. Like Whoopi Goldberg's for example.

    9. Whoopi Goldberg isn't a journalist.

    10. Both Ms. Goldberg and Ms. Vieira have been moderators of the news and public affairs program "The View."

    11. ". . . the news and public affairs program 'The View.'"


    12. "The View focuses on a panel of female co-hosts who discuss a variety of social and political issues. The original panel consisted of Walters, moderator Meredith Vieira, Joy Behar, Star Jones, and Debbie Matenopoulos. In addition to Behar, the current panel consists of moderator Whoopi Goldberg, Raven-Symoné, Michelle Collins, Candace Cameron Bure, and Paula Faris.


      Mostly five women discuss current issues and news items ranging from social and political issues to tabloid headlines and celebrity news."


      Did Somerby mistitle his series on the Houses of....?

      Should have been called it "Houses of BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! County?

    13. Based on status as moderator of a public affairs talk show, Goildberg has more recent journalism experience than Vieira or Somerby and more recent experience as a comedian than Somerby.

    14. "I don't know if Somerby will mention ACT test scores and coverage."

      Somerby seems to mention Wittgenstein more often than ACT scores. Take away D'Leisha Dent and Wittgenstein wins by miles*.

      * Miles as in measurement used in U.S., not 4 year college attended by D'Leisha Dent.

  8. In the meantime, while Bob is on a mission of no importance, we might get President Walker !

    1. Governor Ultrasound Still Has Not Been Put in Jail


  9. On its face, this post doesn’t exactly seem to make sense.

    Do some of Somerby's statements describe or report true states of affairs? Effortlessly, we can an example of a whole post that does not.

    "Are black kids disciplined more harshly in Southern schools than in the rest of the country? Also, what kind of progress has been recorded in the New Orleans schools?

    The mainstream press corps hasn’t produced much back-to-school journalism this year. In all honesty, nobody gives a flying fig about these tedious topics, except to the extent that they can be used to advance preferred elite narratives about our ratty public school teachers with their infernal unions.

    Bob Somerby did three posts on the topic of black student discipline and New Orleans schools. In neither of his posts did we find mention of ratty teachers or infernal unions except as an unsubstantiated phrase used by Mr. Somerby in his opening post and this post.

    In examining the original study of discipline of black students there is no mention of teacher quality, ratty or otherwise. In examining the four pieces linked to by Somerby on New Orleans, there is no discussion of
    teachers or unions in two of the pieces. In one, there is only mention that all union teachers were fired after Katrina and an effort to do some unionization after. The only other discussion of teachers in that piece is race. In the final piece, by Jonathan Chait, one paragraph to takes a swipe at unions and teacher quality.

    In three posts focusing on five independent articles, there is but one paragraph remotely related to the advancing of an elite narrative which Somerby asserts is the only reason for interest in the topics of New Orleans schools or black student discipline.

  10. Off topic but here's the kind of rhetoric the school choice movement is more than capable of producing:

    [QUOTE]>>> “I certainly believed that I was acting in good faith and that the design created a reasonable and workable reporting process which was consistent with the goal of the statute as I understood it,” he [i.e. former, as of July 18, state Department of Education Director of School Choice David Hansen] said. “Suggestions that my design was somehow ‘illegal’ ignore the ambiguity in the statute and the design’s goal of accurately evaluating Ohio’s charter sector.”

    ...Hansen is the husband of Beth Hansen, Kasich’s chief of staff in the governor’s office until she left to manage the Republican’s presidential campaign.<<<[END QUOTE]

    1. This is what's going to take down Kasich.

    2. How far down is it going to take him, Phoenix Woman. From 8th place to 9th, or all the way to 10th?

    3. Actually, he's the only sitting governor Ohio has.

    4. Does that mean, in your opinion, CMike, that Phoenix Woman
      from her Arizona perspective is predicting Kasich's downfall as Governor of Ohio over the quote you presented?

    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    6. Sherrod Brown's seat is up for election in 2018 and I would think this scandal, if it ends up sullying Kasich in a meaningful way at all, would be more problematic for the governor in his home state than in the Republican primary. As to what Phoenix Woman meant I'm not sure, but I do know that, although I'm living in Arizona these days without ever even having passed through Ohio, that Kasich won re-election as governor with 60+% of the vote there in 2014 but will be term limited out of his current office come the 2018 election cycle. Betcha, the Phoenician in question knows all that, too- we do have short wave radio out here.

      (By the way, even if that wasn't her reference [LINK].)

    7. http://www.gfxtr.com/uploads/posts_images/1/2/12846/10f48f7e8fcce0e22416e1899c883f696f4cdf48.jpg

  11. Someone ask Jonathan Capehart why he insists on carrying Joe Scarborough's water:


    1. Someone ask Phoenix Woman if morning news shows never edit segments rebroadcast in later hours to shorten them due to new segments in the later hour taking more time.

    2. It is actual news that Hillary Clinton has done nothing wrong with respect to her emails. That is the point -- that these shows assign lesser priority to news that exonerates her than they do to news that accuses her.

    3. She may have done nothing illegal, but Tom Brokaw thinks she did do something wrong.

      Brokaw: Clinton’s Recklessness With Server ‘Stunning,’ ‘Astonishes Me’

      Brokaw said he was “stunned” and that it “astonishes me” that Clinton could not see the potential risks of her private server being hacked, adding that Clinton’s central campaign component of experience had been undermined.
      “At this point, to suggest that as secretary of state, as much as she’d been around, she didn’t think about the impact and the possibility of hacking, just astonishes me. I think it takes away from her big argument of ‘I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I know what I’m doing.’”

    4. Brokaw is one guy with an opinion. It isn't even an informed opinion, since he has no idea, technically speaking, how secure her server was. She never said she didn't think about hacking.

    5. No David, actually she did everything right. That's why you are able to read every friggin' email she wrote for the SD but you can't read Condi's or Powell's.

    6. The brilliance of HRC was never clearer than foreseeing that a fake scandal and witch hunt like BENGHAZI(!) was inevitable by deranged Republicans, who would destroy the government if needed just hoping to find some tidbit in her communications that could be pretended to be a scandal....And notice how civil she is not to mention the real reason for doing things as she did.

  12. 1. mm -- we can't read every email, because Hillary went through them and erased some unknown number of them.

    2. Then to be sure those deleted emails couldn't be recovered, her computer was professionally wiped.

    3. BTW there's no doubt that Hillary violated the rule requiring the her records be properly archived.

    4. The (alleged) availability of Hillary's emails doesn't respond to Brokaw's point about the greater security risk of using her private server.

    The President sets an example for the entire federal government and for the whole country. Electing Hillary would send a message that it's morally OK to violate rules if you can get away with it.

    1. Electing Hillary Clinton would send a message that she won the election. Just like Al Gore did.

    2. David,

      You can't read her personal emails, you stinking voyeur. I realize that is what is frustrating to the moronic Beltway Village People, but they're not entitled to see them either.

      U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 5

      b. The intention of this guidance is not to require the preservation of every E-mail message. Its purpose is to direct the preservation of those messages that contain information that is necessary to ensure that departmental policies, programs, and activities are adequately documented. E-mail message creators and recipients must decide whether a particular message is appropriate for preservation In making these decisions, all personnel should exercise the same judgment they use when determining whether to retain and file paper

      As someone wrote above, Brokaw is terribly uninformed, is inventing a false scenario, and is shooting his mouth off about something he knows nothing about. There seems to be a lot of that going on. Andrea Mitchell didn't even know who and how the 50000 pages of emails was selected. She actually thought she made news when she asked Secretary Clinton that question.

      Bottom line David, the State Department server was hacked. Maybe someone should inform Brokaw. Second, her server was never compromised. Maybe someone should inform Brokaw.

      #3 - you are full of shit. In fact the Benghazi related emails were given to the committee a year ago because Secretary Clinton sent them to 2 persons on the state.gov system.

      #2 - you're full of shit. after the SD emails were printed out and turned over to the SD, she was asked if she wanted to keep the personal emails and she told them no, you can delete. Who said it was "professionally wiped"? Give me a link.

    3. Here are a few links. You can use google to find more.

      The Observer: "Hillary finally hands over her server—after it's been professionally wiped clean"

      Western Journalism: "Representative Trey Gowdy questioned the necessity of having thousands of yoga and wedding emails professionally deleted."


      The Guardian: "Hillary Clinton's emails, data erased from server before handed to FBI"

      mm - your points are valid IF one assumes that Hillary Clinton didn't take advantage of having control by deleting non-personal e-mails that might embarrass her. However, I think many or most people believe that she kept control of her emails in order to be able to do just that. Well, the deleted emails are gone, so there seems to be no way to absolutely prove either side.

    4. David,

      You're showing me headlines that are being deliberately provocative and more sinister sounding. What the hell does "professionally wiped" mean? Do you think Hillary Clinton is so tech savvy that she would know?

      It was reported by her lawyer that the stuff was erased or deleted. the non-stop right wing attack machine needed to guild the lily so to speak to make it sound more suspicious and sinister.

      WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton’s personal lawyer has told a Senate committee that emails and all other data stored on her computer server were erased before the device was turned over to federal authorities.

      David, use your head for once. The vast majority of the emails that her lawyers printed from her server and turned over the SD for archiving had already been captured on the state.gov system. She tried to make that point a number of times with Andrea Mitchell. But nobody seems to want to hear the facts. It's spoils their fun. All the Benghazi related ones had already been turned over to the committee last year.

      Once you send an email you have no way of knowing for sure if it still was out there somewhere. Do you think she would actually risk her presidential ambitions by trying to hide normal day to day routine SD business emails?

      You can make the same smarmy accusatory statement about every single SD employee who routinely deletes emails that they and they alone decide are not appropriate for preservation.

    5. You may be right, mm. Here's the counter-argument: Would Hillary accept the embarrassment from wiping her disk simply to eliminate routine personal messages? We'll never know for sure.

      BTW deleted e-mails can often be recovered by computer experts. So, it's not the case that "the same smarmy accusatory statement about every single SD employee who routinely deletes emails that they and they alone decide are not appropriate for preservation." I can recall court cases where recovered emails caused considerable embarrassment to the deleter. Wiping the disk is a special step. Its specific purpose is to prevent any email recovery.

    6. You still haven't defined what professionally wiping is nor have you provided a link to a single person with direct knowledge of her server that confirms what your headlines say. What did her lawyer say? Who performed this professional service?

      By the way, the same thing applies to any emails she sent to anyone. Sent to the SD, they were captured. Sent to anyone else she would have no way of knowing if or when someone could produce it in the future.

      One more thing David, she only communicated with bin Laden and terrorists by carrier pigeon so I don't think there's any records of those.

      Just go fuck yourself. This was a former First Lady, a twice elected US Senator and a former Secretary of State who had to power and authority to classify and declassify government documents, third in authority only behind the President and Vice President.

    7. "Here's the counter-argument: Would Hillary accept the embarrassment from wiping her disk simply to eliminate routine personal messages? We'll never know for sure."

      David, that is a ridiculous counter argument you fool. She has no obligation to prove to you and the Beltway High School Voyeur Clowns what was in her personal emails. THEY'RE PERSONAL, GET IT?

      How dare you make these baseless insinuations, speculations, innuendos, accusations without a shred of evidence.

      You people are treasonous and shameless. Your party is trying to ride to the WH on the dead body of a brave ambassador.

      Apparently you are incapable of comprehending what I posted above. She had no obligation to save every single one of her SD emails either. But she did, contrary to Condi Rice and Colin Powell, she preserved every single one and you have yet to produce a scintilla of evidence that the ones deleted had anything to do with her duties as Secretary of State. Read the fucking Foreign Affairs Manual.

  13. This article from the Washington Monthly by Paul Glastris says it all, and shows why republicans are treasonous bastards incapable of governing.

    In the eleven years prior to the hostage crisis, five U.S. ambassadors were murdered by militants and terrorists in places like Lebanon, Guatemala, and the Sudan. None of those losses, which occurred under presidents of both parties, was seen by the public or in Washington as a grievous insult to America generally, or through a partisan filter, or as evidence of systematic failure by the U.S. government requiring root-to-branch investigations with presumptions of perfidy at the top. Rather, they were treated the same way Chris Stevens’s murder (the first of a U.S. ambassador since 1979) should be seen: as brave diplomats killed in the line of duty.

  14. New York Times reports
    A special intelligence review of two emails that Hillary Rodham Clinton received as secretary of state on her personal account — including one about North Korea’s nuclear weapons program — has endorsed a finding by the inspector general for the intelligence agencies that the emails contained highly classified information when Mrs. Clinton received them, senior intelligence officials said.


    1. 1. That probably means you won't get to read it.

      2. It wasn't marked classified when it was sent to her.

      3. It was sent from a state.gov account, which is not secure. Therefore, the mythological creature who checks all emails going out on the state.gov server must have missed this one.

      4. The State Department, which has been doing this for longer than 200 years disagrees;

      John Kirby, the State Department spokesman, echoed Mr. Merrill.

      “Classification is rarely a black and white question, and it is common for the State Department to engage internally and with our interagency partners to arrive at the appropriate decision,” he said in a statement. “Very often both the State Department and the intelligence community acquire information on the same matter through separate channels. Thus, there can be two or more separate reports and not all of them based on classified means. At this time, any conclusion about the classification of the documents in question would be premature.”

      5. You are a coward, a troll and a punk.


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