Cable pundits try to discuss Trump's claims: We've just watched the usual suspects on CNN and MSNBC as they attempt to discuss Donald J. Trump's wiretapping claims.
In a word, sad! Their skills are virtually non-existent. Donald J. Trump is playing a game they can barely name.
Let's start with the key word "legally." They keep going over the ways Obama could have wiretapped Trump in a legal manner.
Who said anything about legal? Donald J. Trump has never said that Obama wiretapped him legally. It's sad to see the way the straights all blow past this basic point. For one example, here is E. J. Dionne in this morning's Post:
DIONNE (3/6/17): It appears that Trump issued his wild tweet storm Saturday morning largely on the basis of reports in conspiracy-minded right-wing media."Trump has a problem either way," Dionne says, working from DNC script of the past few days. He imagines two possibilities:
He signaled his lack of evidence first by reportedly pushing his White House staff to ransack sensitive intelligence information to find support for his claim. Then on Sunday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump wanted Congress to look into the matter and that the administration would offer no further comment.
Trump has a problem either way. If he was not wiretapped, he invented a spectacularly false charge. And if a court ordered some sort of surveillance of him, on what grounds did it do so?
1) Trump didn't get wiretapped at all.E. J. Dionne graduated summa cum laude from Harvard. But because he was working from script, he didn't consider the obvious third possibility. It's hard to believe that we won't hear it bruited around in the end, if only on right-wing talk shows:
2) Trump got wiretapped legally, with "a court order[ing] some sort of surveillance of him."
3) Trump was wiretapped illegally, by a gang of "plumbers."Earth to six- and seven-figure journalists: Donald J. Trump is playing a game it's fairly easy for him to win, at least within his own tribe. As a general matter, neither Barack Obama, nor anyone else, can prove that he didn't engage in a certain action. If Trump wants to claim that Obama sent in a gang of plumbers, no one will ever be able to prove that it didn't happen.
For this reason, there's only one approach to take to claims of this type. You have to note that the accuser—in this case, Donald J. Trump—has offered zero evidence in support of his claim.
Zero evidence; none at all. Pretty much full freaking stop!
You need to draw attention to that fact, and to very few others. But alas! In the hands of our under-skilled cable talkers, we've already seen Trump's wiretap claim end up seeming more credible than it is a very large number of times. By the time they finish will all their talk, they've made it sound like Trump just may be right!
Our pundit corps has peddled bullshit for many, many years. Much of the bullshit has been their own. They've also carried water, for decades, for very shaky accusers. They're much more practiced at selling bullshit than at knocking it down.
They have little experience at trying to ferret the truth. They're mainly skilled at reciting script, not at challenging demagoguery, on which their own engine runs.
Several days later, they still seem to have few skills for dealing with this new unfounded charge. They're so dumb they don't even know that, just as no one "ordered tax" in the famous old joke, Donald J. Trump, the accuser-in-chief, hasn't said squat about "legal."
They've recited for decades now. They're good on Q-ratings, makeup and clothes, unskilled at everything else.
While we're at it: While we're at it, check this guy's idea of a "Muslim ban:"
UNNAMED LIBERAL PUNDIT (3/6/17: The big difference here is that the [new] Muslim ban applies only to new visa applicants, not to folks who already have a visa. In addition, Iraq has been removed from the list and green card holders are exempt. The temporary refugee suspension, which applies to every country, appears unchanged."Iraq has been removed from the list," joining dozens of other Muslim countries around the world. But so what? To promote your endless tribal pleasure, it's still a "Muslim ban."
On cable, they have few skills. On line, our brightest players know how to adjust their game to serve our needs when we start to stampede.
The New York Times has already reported stuff involving telephone conversations between Trump people and Russians. If the Trump people weren't wiretapped, then it must be true that the Russians were wiretapped, and someone recognized a conversation as having political consequences, and someone illegally leaked information about this call.
ReplyDeleteMaybe some hacker gave the info to Wikileaks. How would that suit you?
DeleteThis is what they are going for. Reinforcing the idea of a political witch hunt. It magnifies the political consequences just in time for the midterms if it turns out there is no Russia collusion, which is likely.
DeleteAdditionally there is always a sympathy backlash against a sustained mob attack against any public figure and Trump will benefit from that before long.
I agree with you mm. If Trump were colluding with Russia to commit treason, wiretaps of him would be minor in comparison. However, there's no evidence of treason or collusion, depite months of investigation apparently including wiretaps. (The Obama Administration may not have been wiretapping the Trump people talking to Russia, but then they wiretapped the Russians talking to the Trump people. Either way, they know these conversations.)
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This is still a Muslim ban because the previous order, which this replaces, was a Muslim ban. If Somerby were a liberal of any sort, we wouldn't have to explain to him why the previous ban was a Muslim ban. But Somerby likes to pretend that any piece of evidence exists independent and without any reference to any other piece of evidence or previously argued case. This is a Muslim ban because it furthers Donald Trump's stated goal of banning Muslims, however inadequately. His intent makes it a Muslim ban, not the contents of the EO. It doesn't matter how many other countries are not banned and how many millions of Muslims remain outside the USA when Trump's intent is to keep out Syrian refugees and prevent more Muslims from entering the US. He wants to ban Muslims because he (and Bannon) have said that they do not assimilate.
ReplyDeleteCalling people stupid when they don't split the same hairs as Somerby is an ugly game these days when real people are being hurt by Trump's actions. Real Sikhs are being shot. Real parents are being deported while dropping kids off at school. Somerby is making me sick these days because he thinks it is fun to call cable hosts names because they don't add the word "legal" or "illegal" or whatever Somerby thinks should have been said -- often it is hard to determine what would have been OK in these situations.
Even if it were a Muslim ban, that would be legal. Read the law!
DeleteWhenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteActually, a complete Muslim ban would not be prohibited by statute. It would be prohibited by the Constitution. The current ban is prohibited by statute: “No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.” Which amended the above law over a decade later.
DeleteBrooklyn 301 -- Many or most legal scholars believe that Constitutional rights apply only to US citizens, or perhaps to US citizens and US residents. But, few think these rights apply to non-US-citizens who are not in the US. However, I am not sure that this has ever been adjudicated by the Supreme Court.
Delete"For this reason, there's only one approach to take to claims of this type. You have to note that the accuser—in this case, Donald J. Trump—has offered zero evidence in support of his claim"
ReplyDeleteIf the accuser can point to instances of surveillance that suggest they might have been politically motivated, that will be enough evidence for some to overlook that this doesn't precisely match the original claim. The Trumpsters will say we told you to take him seriously but not literally. Lather rinse repeat.
If these people could process the concept of evidence, they wouldn't be Trump supporters.
DeleteIf Hillary voters could process the concept of evidence, they would recognize the nothingburger that is "Russia collusion." They probably would still be Hillary supporters because their ends justify their means.
DeleteGreg, you must have watched and swallowed Maddow's extremely specious dot-connecting monologue. I never watched her and saw that clip in circulation so decided to give it a look. Somerby understates her delusional level of self impressed clowning. That was the only useful take away. Does she actually believe what she's selling you? Best to keep an open mind.
Deleteanon7:07, don't underestimate the power of nothingburgers. Look at the Benghazi and Clinton email nothingburgers.
DeleteNothingburgers have shorter shelf lives now. No one trusts the media, particularly attacks against Republicans.
Delete11:59 AM,
DeleteWhy are you making it sound like people followed the nothingburger attacks of Republicans in the past? It's always been "it's ok if you are a Republican" when it comes to these types of matters. Most likely because the media is owned by corporations and leans heavily to the right.
We ought to agree nothingburgers should not be pursued. Their purpose is to lie to and confuse the least informed voters and make media corporations richer. Their success resulted in a Trump presidency, destruction of race relations, skyrocketing murder rates in cities, murdered police officers, diminished trust in all institutions. No one is served by them.
DeleteEarth to Bob - the press can't just say "Trump offered no evidence for his allegations," because that's exactly what they have been doing to his administration. (See "muh Russian hacking", complete and total lack of evidence of).
ReplyDeleteSince when has the corporate-owned media been afraid of being seen as hypocrites? Remember, they chased the nothing burger of "Whitewater" for 7+ years, and waved-away the "Downing Street memos" in less than 72 hours.
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2) Lost Love Spells
3) Divorce Spells
4) Marriage Spells
5) Binding Spell.
6) Breakup Spells
7) Banish a past Lover
8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
9) want to satisfy your lover
Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
through drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com