BREAKING: Bee and Reid and Avenatti oh my!

SATURDAY, JUNE 2, 2018

Meanwhile, Traister explains:
Bee and Reid and Avenatti oh my! Then again, as we've been saying, it's all anthropology now.

Today, we'll offer two perspectives on our tribe's tribal misconduct:

Samantha Bee dropped a C-bomb on Ivanka Trump this week. Some members of our liberal team are now assembing academic treatises as to why this really wasn't especially bad after all.

Our view? If you want to find someone who has lost her way in this regard, you should watch this seven-minute presentation by Rebecca Traister on last night's All In.

Our view? Her presentation is silly, appalling, sad. It's a living treatise on how the tribal instinct can take us all the way down.

Of course, Traister is one of the fiery progressives who ran and hid when Keith Olbermann joined with his smutty little friend, Michael Musto, to stage misogynistic performances on MSNBC for years.

For years, we wondered if we were the only ones who found these presentations offensive. Finally, when the initially private "Journolist" exchanges were leaked, we got our answer:

As it turned out, leading career liberals had been explicitly criticizing Olbermann's "misogyny"—but they'd done so only in private! He was a star of our sad little tribe, so these giants didn't speak out in public.

Traister was one of those people. Last night, there she was on The One True Channel, groveling and slithering her way through some very tall grass.

The term in question has "misogynistic roots," she confided to Chris Hayes, but in the hands of Bee, it was just part of "an incredibly powerful critique" of Ivanka Trump. Rather than transcribe the things Traister said to Hayes, let's consider the opening passage from her recent post at New York magazine:
TRAISTER (5/31/18): Today, Trump administration press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told The Wrap that she was distressed by the “silence from the left” in regard to the comedian Samantha Bee’s comments during her Full Frontal monologue on Wednesday night. In the monologue, Bee called Ivanka Trump a “feckless [C-bomb]” in response to the First Daughter and presidential adviser’s decision to post an image of herself blissfully hugging her son amid news of children being ripped from their parents by ICE. This afternoon, Bee herself apologized on Twitter to both Trump and her viewers, claiming that the use of the [C-bomb] “was inappropriate and inexcusable” and that she had “crossed a line” and “deeply regret[s] it.”

As a left-leaning feminist, I agree with Sarah Huckabee Sanders that “silence” on the matter of Bee’s comedic critique—and its connection to ABC’s recent cancellation of Roseanne is inexcusable...
Read on from there if you have the stomach. For now, notice what Traister has done:

After noting that Bee herself has called her insult "inexcusable," Traister turns on a very thin dime to attack what Sanders has said. She skips past Bee's acknowledgment of inexcusable error. Instead, she wants to do what she did all through her segment with Hayes:

She wants to rail about what The Others have done. And she wants to find ways to praise Us.

Good God! In the opening passage posted above, she even refers to Bee's statements about her own conduct as "claim[s]." She won't even let Bee's words stand as delivered. Bee's direct assessment must be instantly taken down.

Anthropologically speaking, this is our species at its most elemental. Meanwhile, consider what Bee and her owners apparently did on the evening in question:

As far as we know, Bee's program doesn't air live. Indeed, TBS seems to have apologized for deciding to air her misogynist insult. (“Those words should not have been aired. It was our mistake, too, and we regret it.”)

(According to CBS News, Executive producer Miles Kahn made light of the situation and tweeted, "So, 'feckless c***' seems to be trending." This is who and what these people frequently are.)

In other words, Bee chose to say what she said; she and her owners then chose to air it. Might a person even wonder if those decisions were made in search of publicity, the meat upon which these unhelpful celebrities have sometimes been known to feed?

Concerning Reid, consider this:

It has become impossible to follow the attempts by Reid and her lawyer to claim that her past blog postings have been hacked in some way—in some way which the FBI was allegedly investigating!

Whatever! If you want to try to puzzle it out, we'll recommend this new Daily Beast report. That said, Reid has acknowledged that she once had anti-gay views which she no longer holds. With that in mind, we were struck by this part of that Beast report:
KIRELL, GROVE AND TANI (6/1/18): [Some MSNBC] staffers who spoke with The Daily Beast expressed a growing sense of alarm about how this ongoing saga may damage MSNBC’s reputation as a news outlet.

[..]

[Some staffers] pointed out that this ordeal makes it difficult for Reid to freely comment on the news without viewers calling out some hypocrisy. Multiple staffers pointed to how Reid was roundly mocked online when—amid outrage over Roseanne Barr’s racist tirade—daytime host Andrea Mitchell asked Reid, without irony, “What do you have to do on social media to get fired from a top rated show on an American broadcast network?”

“Now she can’t talk about Samantha Bee, she can’t talk about Roseanne,
she can’t talk about anything to do with Israel,” another MSNBC staffer told The Daily Beast. “What can she talk about?”
What can Reid talk about? She can talk about something which is very important. She can talk about the way people who grow up in certain families or certain communities may develop unfortunate views and ideas—views and ideas which don't necessarily reflect who they ultimately are.

Reid says she's one of those people! This was part of her original apology for her past homophobic posts:
REID (4/28/18): I grew up in a household that, like many in America, had conservative views on LGBTQ issues. I had friends—some of my closest friends in fact, growing up—who I later learned were gay and had kept it secret from me and from everyone else we were close to. Because they didn’t know what we would say or if we would still be friends or whether we would look at them differently.
Reid says she has moved beyond the views she developed during her childhood and adolescence. This equips her to go on the air and discuss a deeply important point:

People who express views we liberals don't share are not necessarily evil! They may respond to education, argument and experience, as Reid says she herself did over the past dozen years.

People are able to learn, grow and change; Reid is now brilliantly positioned to discuss this important point. But let's be honest! That isn't the viewpoint we want to hear when we turn to our favorite cable channel. In these deeply tribalized times, we want to hear the tribal loathing. We want to hear The Hate.

We want to hear that The Others are vile, but that We are not. We want to hear that it's outrageous when Donald J. Trump uses the C-word—note Traister's pathetic recitation with Hayes—but it's part of a brilliant social critique when We use the term Over Here.

Don't listen to what Bee herself has said! Instead of that, focus on Sanders!

Bee dropped the C-bomb as a matter of choice. Reid has an array of confusing stories about the things she once wrote, not that long ago.

Last night, Traister struck us as hopeless, but let's be completely fair. Anthropologically speaking, that's the way our species is at its prehistoric core, when our desire to loathe The Others, while lauding Ourselves, takes us all the way down.

As for Avenatti, his Trump-like messes just keep piling up. You're assisted in not knowing that on The One True Channel.

64 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Well then, this is for you.

      https://youtu.be/eD-3-hLqg4I?t=3288

      Delete
    2. I AM FINALLY FREE FROM FINANCIAL BONDAGE THANKS TO MOORE LOAN COMPANY (mooreloancompany@yahoo.com).

      Good day everyone,I can’t hide this great testimony that took place in my life I will love everyone to know it and be a partaker of this, that is why I want to share it to the whole world by placing this advert on classifieds, I am Mrs Karen Brown by name, I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee United State, I want to thank ROBBINSON MOORE for his kindness upon my family life, I never knew that there is still a sincere and trustworthy lender like this on the internet and on earth. Just some days I was in search for a loan of $ 100,000.00, As I was running out of money for feeding, School fees, My business was really going out of capital and my rent. I was scammed about $15,000.00 dollars and I decided not to involve my self in such business again. But a Friend of mine introduced me to a loan firm due to my appearance and doings and also my complains to her. And I told her that I am not interested in any loan deal anymore but she told me that there is still a sincere lender who she will recommend me to, And she gave me the details of this man who is called MOORE ROBBINSON. And I really put a trial and I am most greatful and lucky today, I was given a loan amount of $95,000,00 Dollars by this great firm MOORE LOAN COMPANY. If you arew in need of a genuine, Sincere, durable and a truth worthy loan lender or financial assistance and also you know you can be reliable and trusted, capable of paying back at the due / duration time of the funds I will advice you to send your contact to them via email @[ mooreloancompany@yahoo.com] OR Text (414) 454-9493 . And you will be free from scams on the internet. Please I am begging everyone on earth to help me thank Mr ROBBINSON MOORE. And I ill always being sharing this great surprise and testimony that happened in my life everyday to all that need loans. Contact them now if you are in need of a loan: AS THEY ARE EFFICIENT,DYNAMIC AND RELAIBLE.....Again there contact email [mooreloancompany@yahoo.com OR Text (414) 454-9493.

      Delete
  2. "People who express views we liberals don't share are not necessarily evil! "

    "We want to hear that The Others are vile, but that We are not."

    The Others aren't necessarily evil. That's true. But who is saying that they are? There are vile people and vile policies on the other side worthy of criticism. (And by the way this same sentence of Somerby's describes the Conservatives' tribal view as well.)

    Bee was criticizing an individual and a policy from the other side. She was not saying all Republicans are vile or evil.

    Aside from this, Somerby is willing to excuse Roseanne's vile tweets by positing that she may be mentally ill. Even if true, there are plenty of Others who express similar things who are not mentally ill. But Samantha Bee he slimes as vile; no tolerance there.

    Aside from the first amendment right that Bee has, it's also important to note that there is no agreement amongst liberals about the advisability of Bee or others saying the kinds of things she did. There is no united tribal defense of Bee going on right now.

    I ultimately think that Somerby places impossible restraints on liberals. While conservatives are allowed to say whatever vile thing enters their heads, liberals, according to Somerby, must act like MLK or Mandela in return. But these men were extraordinary; most people are just average, and react with anger when they are attacked. Somerby has argued for years that individual liberals should self-censor, never saying anything that the Others might construe as an attack. That is untenable. And I don't think it will ultimately cause Conservatives to suddenly drop their hatred of liberals and engage in civil discourse. You do realize, Bob, that it takes two to have a conversation? That's pretty hard to do when the Other side thinks that liberals are "godless communists" (or whatever the new epithet is) and their primary goal is the extinction of liberals. Our being "nicer" will not work. How do you think a bully reacts to a victim who tries to be humble and tolerant? The bully gets more enraged. Just look at how conservatives treated Obama to see how far his generous, mature spirit got him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I ultimately think that Somerby places impossible restraints on liberals. While conservatives are allowed to say whatever vile thing enters their heads, liberals, according to Somerby, must act like MLK or Mandela in return."

      "I believe in this, and it's been proven by research, that he who fucks nuns will later join the church." ---- Joe Strummer

      Delete
  3. So Avenatti has "Trump-like" problems, according to completely unbiased Avenatti expert Somerby? Even if true, so what? Does that diminish the truth about Cohen that he has revealed? So Avenatti isn't a saint. Who is, Bob? Are non-saints not allowed to contribute? Must a messenger be perfect, or will you argue that the lack of perfection negates the message? No flaws allowed? Ridiculous, Bob.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Somerby didn't like what Rebecca Traister said on Chris Hayes show about Samantha Bee. He didn't like anything about it. I think it is very hard to claim any kind of feminist credentials after saying that.

    Traister did an excellent job of packing a lot of explanation into a very short time. Her remarks were not a sound bite. They were a carefully reasoned explanation of the difference between what Bee did and what Roseanne did.

    Somerby doesn't like women much. That is obvious after all these years of writing. It is to be expected that he wouldn't understand why Bee's comment was just a strong statement about Trump's policy and not equivalent to Roseanne's racism.

    The right tried to pin an equivalency tail on that donkey Bill Maher, but it didn't stick. Bee came along and gave them something to attack. That was foolish, but her remarks were not. Neither were Rebecca Traister's.

    Somerby is on the wrong side of this issue, as he has been consistently since Trump's election (and before if you count his lack of support for Hillary and his appreciation for Bernie and the Bros).

    And now he is back to using the word "anthropology" in the same way as Jordan Petersen uses it, and the incel community. They too believe it is OK to marry very young girls, cause nature intended it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Somerby voted for Trump. I think he has thoroughly blown his cover as any kind of liberal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous on June 2, 2018 at 2:41 PM (who is at least 75 points below median in reading):

      TDH didn’t like what Traister said. So exactly how does that make it hard to “claim any kind of feminist credentials”? You think you can’t be a feminist unless you agree with the fuzzy thinking of Rebecca Traister?

      TDH notes that Traister refuses to adopt Samantha Bee’s self-critical position that it was inexcusable to call Ivanka Trump a feckless cunt. I think that’s specious. Why is it necessary to agree with a speaker who’s had misgivings about her own words?

      And you’re right. Indeed Traister packed a “lot of explanation” into a short time, but her explanation is very weak tea. It’s basically the Don’t-Punch-Down argument. There are better reasons to defend Bee’s words and to decry the false equivalence with Barr’s.

      But how do you jump from TDH’s poorly thought-out poistion to the conclusion that he doesn’t like women “much”? Or that he believes it’s OK to marry “very” young girls? Or that he voted for Trump? Of that he isn’t “any kind” of liberal?

      Powerful talent for mind reading you’ve got there, Sparky.

      And as far as I can tell, when Jordan Peterson mentions anthropology, it’s to lump that field in with other brands of academic nonsense like race- and gender-studies, sociology, and English literature. I suspect by English literature he means postmodern literary criticism. When TDH mentions anthropology it’s a metaphor for his study of two opposing political camps, each with its own language, myths, and cultural ceremonies. And each hating the other as “The Other”. This may be a tired trope, but at least you’re doing your best to breathe some life into it by serving as a perfect example of its applicability.

      By the way, by a (very rough) rule of thumb, 75 points is the equivalent of your not being able to think straight.

      Delete
    2. "But how do you jump from TDH’s poorly thought-out poistion to the conclusion that he doesn’t like women “much”? Or that he believes it’s OK to marry “very” young girls? Or that he voted for Trump? Of that he isn’t “any kind” of liberal?"

      You had to be here when Somerby was talking about this stuff. You had to have read Somerby's defense of Roy Moore and his repeated statements that it was OK for older men to lust after much younger women, especially if their mother's gave permission. It is right out of the incel and alt-Right playbook on women's roles as traditional wives.

      Somerby supported Sanders, stating several times his preference for his views. He criticized Clinton, even while deploring her treatment by the press. He did not state who he voted for in the presidential election, but his later attempts to justify Trump voters, pointing out that they could have reasons other than racism for voting for Trump, sounds suspiciously like self-justification and a guilty conscience. His ongoing refusal to believe that Clinton had the election stolen and his assertion that she lost because of the things she said about deplorables is just plain inaccurate based on every serious analysis of the election. Comey did it, not her own campaign flaws. But Somerby doesn't agree.

      Since the election, Somerby has repeated the conservative talking points on every issue affecting Trump and his minions. His consistency in doing so is striking.

      Again, you had to be here and you obviously haven't been if you have to ask where my conclusions come from. I have been pointing this stuff out about Somerby for months now.

      Somerby is not using the term "anthropology" in the way you describe. He is using it in the way Jordan Peterson does, as a code for socio-biological justification for a preferred world view that includes female subjugation as a human universal. Somerby doesn't understand real anthropology and he has several times demeaned anthropologists by ascribing views to that field that no anthropologist I've met or read would hold. Borrowing the word "tribe" from his favorite authors and using it to refer to political factions doesn't make this anthropology, even as metaphor.

      TDH is ignorant about psychology, anthropology, social science (especially methodology) and seems to be only interested in education testing, not practices. His discussions of physics and philosophy are outside my interests and expertise, but those other fields are not and I find it more than tiresome when he mangles them.

      But you go right ahead calling names whenever you disagree with someone here. It adds so much to the general tone of discussion on the internet.

      Delete
    3. If Somerby's point is that Trump voters could have reasons other than racism to vote for Trump, I agree.

      I would, however, disagree with Somerby if his point is that Trump voters did have reasons other than racism to vote for Trump.

      Anything "could" be possible, but that doesn't mean it "is" possible.
      In the case of Trump voters reasons being something other than racism, I'll note the media has found not one of those voters, despite 18 months of trying.

      Delete
  5. Somerby wants to blame Rebecca Traister for other people's behavior. When did she become responsible for them? That seems a lot like blaming the victim, since it is misogyny being discussed. If Traister didn't wish to jeopardize her own career by calling out men who were more powerful than she, how is she to blame for what they did?

    I didn't hear Somerby calling them out either. I think it was his turn to do that and he blew it. I guess we have to stop taking him seriously now too.

    Traister is one of the important voices speaking up about women's issues. She is visible and competent. She does not deserve the things Somerby said about her. I heard her speak in real time and I didn't hear it anything like Somerby did, but then, I am an actual woman and a feminist and a real liberal, unlike Somerby. He seems bent on undermining the effective voices speaking for women today -- Bee, Traister, who will be next? We know he doesn't like Amanda Marcotte. Name a feminist he approves of...crickets.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous on June 2, 2018 at 2:56 PM sez:

      Somerby wants to blame Rebecca Traister for other people's behavior.

      Where do you get this stuff? Seriously. About Traister, TDH actually sez:

      She wants to rail about what The Others have done. And she wants to find ways to praise Us.

      Now, TDH may have a point here. Or he may not. But he’s not blaming RT for other people’s behavior. He’s critical of her own behavior.

      What’s unclear about this?

      Delete
    2. "Where do you get this stuff?"

      TDH says: "As it turned out, leading career liberals had been explicitly criticizing Olbermann's "misogyny"—but they'd done so only in private! He was a star of our sad little tribe, so these giants didn't speak out in public.

      Traister was one of those people. Last night, there she was on The One True Channel, groveling and slithering her way through some very tall grass. "

      TDH thus blames Traister for Olberman and Musto. He thinks that someone who doesn't actively oppose a colleague is responsible for what that colleague says and does. So he blames Traister for these two guys who were (1) higher on the totem pole at work, (2) stating their own opinions on their own shows, not hers. Traister is an occasional commenter on MSNBC and a writer at New York Magazine and book author. She doesn't have the clout to challenge these guys, even if she were inclined to do so. But in Somerby's eyes, she is them.

      So, yes, Somerby is blaming Traister for Olberman's and Musto's behavior. He says so himself.

      Delete
    3. Somerby's attitude toward feminists is apparently that if they don't call out misogyny anywhere and everywhere, they have no right to express their own views as feminists.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous on June 3, 2018 at 9:51 AM,

      TDH has long blamed Olbermann and Musto for their misogyny. It took me seconds to find a 2012 blog entry in which he calls the former a slime-ball and the latter repulsive. And for that same long time he has been calling out liberals for not speaking out against the two. Those liberals who didn’t publicly oppose such public misogyny are responsible only for their failure of nerve or courage or principle or whatever.

      Those who stand by silently are complicit. Isn’t that a tenet of the #MeToo movement? I think it is very hard to claim any kind of feminist credentials if you can’t see that. Being complicit is different from being responsible. I think it is very hard to lay claim to clear thought if you can’t see that.

      No one is saying that Traister had the clout to stop Olbermann, but it wouldn’t have taken any clout to challenge him. What it might have taken was ignoring the risk to a career, and it’s fair to note that TDH’s criticism fails to take this into account.

      But TDH does not blame Traister for others’ behavior. He doesn’t say so “himself” that she is. So you should probably stop claiming otherwise.

      Delete
    5. I don't agree that Traister is responsible for calling out all the jerks in the world because she is a feminist, nor that she cannot speak until she has done so. I've said that already. She didn't work with or for Olberman or MSNBC. She appears on-air occasionally as a guest. That's a very tenuous connection even by #METOO standards.

      But this is a tactic to silence her. This idea that she cannot speak about other things because she didn't speak about this one is obviously nonsense.

      Your excessive literalism is tiresome. It, too, is a tactic and not substantive discussion of any point.

      TDH doesn't want to debate anything. He wants to disparage Traister and Bee so that others will not take them seriously. Who wants that besides Somerby? Trump and his ilk, obviously. Once again, Somerby is taking a side that gives comfort to Trump supporters against liberals. He has been doing that regularly since the election. Why? Not because he is a liberal, because liberals don't tend to support Trump or his viewpoints. So what is wrong with Somerby these days?

      If I were a cynic, I would speculate that he needed some cash and sold out to the guys from Russia (or their representatives). They haven't dismantled their propaganda efforts at all and are gearing up for 2018, when liberals may be a real threat. Anything Somerby can do to diminish them is part of the anti-Democrat and anti-democratic agenda.

      But you go right ahead defending him. He once supported Al Gore, so he must be a good guy, right?

      Delete
    6. I don't agree that Traister is responsible for calling out all the jerks in the world because she is a feminist

      All the jerks in the world? Who claims that should be Traister’s burden? How about influential jerks in the media? Should that be part of the portfolio of a credentialed feminist?

      nor that she cannot speak until she has done so.
      Nobody, including TDH, has claimed she can’t speak. But I commend you on your brave stand.

      She [Traister] didn't work with or for Olberman [sic] or MSNBC. She appears on-air occasionally as a guest. That's a very tenuous connection

      That’s the pass you’re willing to give Traister? Well, OK, although I suspect you wouldn’t give the same pass to those on the right who don’t appear on Hannity’s show. But that’s as may be. TDH disagrees with you. Maybe you’ve seen the light and he hasn’t. Or maybe it’s vice versa. Whatever the case, you have no good reason for misrepresenting what TDH writes or claiming you know his interiority.

      But this is a tactic to silence her.

      How would that even be possible for TDH to do?

      This idea that she cannot speak about other things because she didn't speak about this one is obviously nonsense.

      Yes, it is, just as obvious nonsense as that TDH has claimed she must remain silent.

      Your excessive literalism is tiresome.
      You’re accusing me of excessive literalism? Aren’t you the same Anonymous who thinks TDH is making a literal anthropological statement when he talks about tribes? If you’re not, then I apologize, but then in my defense neither of you has the common courtesy to distinguish yourselves.

      He wants to disparage Traister and Bee so that others will not take them seriously.
      Stop reading Somerby’s mind. I evaluate Traister’s and Bee’s current work on it’s own merits. I expect all fair-minded people to do likewise.

      liberals don't tend to support Trump or his viewpoints. So what is wrong with Somerby these days?
      Until you get over your mindset that anyone who criticizes a liberal is automatically a Trumpster, no one need take you seriously when you ask what’s wrong with other people.

      If I were a cynic, I would speculate that he needed some cash and sold out to the guys from Russia
      No, not cynic. What’s that other thing? Oh, yeah: gullible fool. You think the Russians regard TDH as a worthy asset?

      But you go right ahead defending him. He once supported Al Gore, so he must be a good guy, right?
      I think TDH is right more than he’s wrong. I evaluate his arguments on their merit (and, I might add, without trying to read his mind). My evaluations have nothing to do with his support of Al Gore. I don’t always agree with him, and in fact, I think he’s wrong about Traister and Bee. But that doesn’t mean I’m now forced to conclude that he’s a Trump supporter.

      Delete
    7. Someone considers this blog worth the effort since we obviously have conservative trolls here.

      If you stick around, I think you will see the pattern I am referring to. Now that I have mentioned it, it may be more obvious to you.

      I used to think Somerby was right about things too, but that hasn't been true for a long time. I don't think I'm the one who changed.

      Members of minority groups get tired of speaking out every time they experience an instance of discrimination, an insult or unfairness. You pick your battles. It isn't tenable to waste your energy being angry every time something wrong happens to you (or around you, or in the media). That's why I cut Traister slack, and Somerby should too. It is also why the people who do speak up are highly regarded. They are paying a price in emotional turmoil, if no other way, on behalf of everyone else. Traister and Samantha Bee and others do this as their main job. Somerby thinks that's not enough and they should comment on stray miscreants of his choosing. I think they are doing enough already. There's no reason Somerby cannot speak out about these guys -- why wait for Traister to do it? But he is obviously choosing how to spend his energy too. And it isn't on behalf of women's issues.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous on June 3, 2018 at 5:46 PM:

      worth the effort
      Maybe. But I wouldn’t measure the influence of TDH by Mao’s presence.

      If you stick around
      I’ve been reading TDH for over a decade

      the one who changed
      Are you sure? ‘Cause Somerby is rigidly dedicated to his themes and tropes. Obsessively, perhaps compulsively, so.

      I have only two quibbles with the rest of your comment. The first is that TDH has been speaking out about these guys. He’s been down on Olbermann for years. Secondly, TDH has no obligation to make his blog “on behalf of women’s issues.” That’s not what TDH does, and if you’re waiting here for a blog on women’s issues, then you’re in the wrong place.

      That said, everything else is perfectly reasonable. You disagree with TDH on his approach and lack of insight on certain issues. Fine. And you didn’t have to impugn his motives or guess at his state of mind. Brava!

      Delete
    9. "That’s not what TDH does, and if you’re waiting here for a blog on women’s issues, then you’re in the wrong place."

      And yet you asked me for my evidence that Somerby doesn't like women much. Here is some from your own pen. There is more.

      Delete
    10. Anonymous on June 3, 2018 at 9:34 PM,

      I'm sorry, but I don't follow. Maybe it's just me, but how does the fact the TDH (the blog) is not about women's issues make TDH (the blogger) someone who doesn't like women?

      Delete
  6. Bob again shows that tribalism is huge and that there's a double standard. Ho hum. What else is new?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Haven't you heard? Conservatives are now blaming their behavior on Liberals. IOW, Conservatives are now copping to being the reactionaries liberals have always told you they were.

      Delete
    2. David,
      Feminism is about treating women equally (i.e. giving women the same rights and responsibilities as men). Conservatives, of course think it's about giving them special rights. So when Ivanka (a woman) is held accountable for her actions, Conservatives think it's a double standard.
      Some say, it's because Conservatives are morons, but others just think they like arguing in bad faith. Opinions differ.

      Delete
  7. Bob has devolved into a big, stupid right leaning whore and this is among his very worst, though such distintions get harder and less meaningful every time.

    But let's do it anyway:

    A) You cannot critque media "tribalism" in any meaningful way if you are looking at only one of the tribes. One of the tribes now wispers in the ear of our TERRIBLE President, virtually defining all matters for him. This is the tribe Bob thinks does not matter.

    B) Samatha Bee has been on Ivanka Trumps case for a long time. Ivanka is a vapid creep, and her place in the White House, where She affects issue so She can make a buck off them, is awful. This aspect of the story is not even there for whoremaster Bob. He don't care.

    C) Rebeca Traister is indeed awful. It's interesting that Bob has ceased defending Bill Clinton against her dishonest attacts from her. Bob could if he paid more attention but I think he starts drinking around noon and is just too lazy.

    D) some liberals have been arguing that the seperation from childen from their parents is evil. Evil. That may be right or wrong, but that is not "someone expressing views that they don't like." Obviously.

    BOB IS A DUMB CUNT.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is no doubt whatsoever that separating children from their parents at any age, but particularly in early childhood, is damaging to the children. This is established in the developmental psychology literature.

      That anyone would do this on purpose, with other alternatives available, is EVIL because it deliberately inflicts damage upon human beings, emotional and psychological problems that will be with them for the rest of their lives.

      Conservatives don't believe in science. They may believe that kids are like puppies. It doesn't matter who feeds them or where they live as long as they are fed and warm and dry. They are wrong about that.

      It used to be that hospitals kept parents from visiting children except during limited visiting hours. They eventually realized that kids healed faster and got better when parents could stay nearby, overnight, in the same room with them. Now they make that possible and welcome parents in the rooms with sick kids. That's because doctors believe in science and also see the results with their own eyes.

      Conservatives are either too stupid to understand what they are doing, or they just don't care whether they do lasting harm to immigrants, being brown and all. They don't consider them real people so they don't care what suffering they inflict. That is the EVIL part.

      Ivanka is a cunt because she posted a gloating picture of herself with her son, rubbing in everyone's noses the fact of the harm being inflicted on other people less fortunate than her. Gloating about something that hurts children is twice as evil. She deserves every mean thing said about her.

      Delete
    2. And is Bob evil for ignoring this, while playing the protector of children weekly on his blog? Hard to answer, "No.".

      Delete
    3. Greg,

      Please don’t make me look up your reading score.

      TDH is not a disinterested blog about media tribalism.

      TDH is not a blog about Donald Trump, his crime family, and his merry band of grifters.

      TDH is not a blog dedicated to the defense of Democrats or to attacks on Republicans.

      TDH is a blog about the workings of the so-called main-stream press and in particular those outlets and persons considered “liberal”.

      Now, maybe Somerby should write the blog that you want. But it should be clear that’s not gonna happen. So I’m curious —

      What are you doing here?

      Delete
    4. TDH is not liberal.

      TDH attacks those working toward liberal goals.

      TDH did not support the liberal candidate during the last presidential election.

      TDH criticizes liberals and liberal mainstream media, often on specious grounds.

      TDH is no friend to liberals and is actively harming liberal political causes and candidates, just as he did during the presidential election.

      TDH pretends to be liberal and thus needs to be called out as he poses as something he is not.

      Because of his past influence among liberals, his current pose as a liberal is doubly harmful to liberals who are trying to achieve liberal goals.

      TDH is not a mainstream media critic. He is a liberal critic. Liberals do not need someone like TDH tearing them down at every opportunity. There is enough of that coming from the right.

      TDH doesn't really care about children or their education. He cares about mocking liberals and hurting their chances at the polls.

      Delete
    5. Greg doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool shed in the chandelier drawer.

      Delete
    6. TDH is not liberal.
      Why not? Because he criticizes liberals or because he supports tax cuts for the wealthy?

      TDH attacks those working toward liberal goals.
      Because he disagrees with the goals or with the approach of those working toward them? If the former, could you please provide evidence from TDH; if the latter, please provide an argument that shows that such a critic cannot be a liberal.

      TDH did not support the liberal candidate during the last presidential election.
      Do you mean that TDH endorsed Trump? If so, could I have a cite.

      TDH criticizes liberals and liberal mainstream media, often on specious grounds.
      How does mere criticism of liberals preclude the critic from being a liberal? If the criticism is specious, doesn’t that merely mean the critic is mistaken?

      TDH is no friend to liberals and is actively harming liberal political causes and candidates, just as he did during the presidential election.
      Please provide the slightest evidence that TDH had any effect on the election.

      TDH pretends to be liberal and thus needs to be called out as he poses as something he is not.
      Please stop pretending that you know what other people are pretending.

      Because of his past influence among liberals, his current pose as a liberal is doubly harmful to liberals who are trying to achieve liberal goals.
      Please provide evidence that TDH has ever had much influence among any group.

      TDH is not a mainstream media critic. He is a liberal critic. Liberals do not need someone like TDH tearing them down at every opportunity. There is enough of that coming from the right.
      So liberals can’t criticize liberals?

      TDH doesn't really care about children or their education. He cares about mocking liberals and hurting their chances at the polls.
      Please stop pretending that you really know what people really care about.

      Delete
    7. TDH gets cited by Kevin Drum who ought to know better.

      If Somerby cared about children, he wouldn't be giving grief to Samantha Bee for her plea to Ivanka on behalf of immigrant children. My logic about this is no different than Somerby's when he asserts we don't care about those beautiful black children because...not sure what his evidence is.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous on June 3, 2018 at 9:31 PM,

      I infer from TDH blog entries that the blogger doesn't like Bee's charactering of Ivanka, but where do you find him "giving grief" to Bee? He writes about the logic of those defending Bee.

      Delete
    9. deadrat's point would be better made, if Bob stopped repeating nonsense Right-wing memes about Liberals on his blog.

      Delete
  8. I am a liberal but I didn't vote for Obama, in part, because of his attitudes toward gay marriage. Despite being liberal in other ways, he couldn't bring himself to support gay marriage, in my opinion, because it would cost him some of the African American vote, which might be crucial in the primaries against Hillary. Then he was stuck with that position in the general election.

    To me, that was not a principled position but a political one. But the reality is that much of the African American community, especially among church-going people, is strongly against gay marriage and is still homophobic. It is harder to be black and gay than to be white and gay. So it is not surprising that Joy Reid, at some point in her life, might have held such views. Like Obama, if she has come to a different opinion, that's a good thing and I wouldn't blame her for the compromises she had to make earlier in her career in order to get where she is now. But that doesn't make homophobia or opposition to gay marriage justified. It made them necessary, but it is wrong that either of them had to be put into that position by their community's backward views.

    It isn't clear to me whether Somerby wants to cut her some slack or not. He seems more ambivalent than she has been.

    ReplyDelete
  9. When you click on the Avenatti link, it doesn't take you to the right place.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Powerful Effective Love Spell Get Your Ex Back About a month ago I got back to my ex(after 2 and half years separated).Everything was ok and she was the most adorable woman in the world. she spoke about wedding ceremony, how many kids we would have, said that our relationship was the most important thing in her life and he was 100% sure about it…Then he traveled to work in other country for 3 weeks. he changed his behavior completely. he disappeared every night, was saying she had to do some work and would talk to me later, but disappeared the rest of the day and night… no explanation, when I asked why she was disappearing every night, she stopped answering me. she’s ignoring me since last week, April 15. she ignored even my birthday, that was April 16. Not even a message. I wrote to her a few times trying to understand what happened, she read but just ignored me.I feel so bad cause I couldn’t stop contacting and trying to understand what happened.i loved her so much and wanted to get her back, then i was told to contact happylovespell2@gmail.com who can help out with a love spell to reunite your relationship back, so instantly do contact him and give him a try and trust me he did an urgent effective love spell for me and with 46hours promise he made to me, my woman was back, today i testify to you all that you should seek and contact Dr happy for his spell result is genuine sure and guarantee unite and get your ex back save your marriage/relationship problem now, email happlovespell2@gmail.com you can also know more about his spell Blogs site.http://happylovespel.blogspot.com.ng/ Whatsapp/cal +2348133873774

    ReplyDelete
  11. In his current attack on Disney, Bernie Sanders has chosen an odd target. First, there are some unions that operate at Disney, especially in the motion picture division but also in certain trades. Disney is not particularly anti-union. Second, the average wage isn't that low. It is lower in FL than in CA, but it is comparable with internship and entry level jobs throughout the area and goes much higher. Third, many who work at Disney love their jobs and consider Disney a good employer. It is an example of a seasonal employer with a lot of turnover, just like other tourist industries, but career employees do earn higher salaries and there is Disney University which provides training to move into other, high paying jobs, with appropriate skills. Disney engineers earn the same as engineers elsewhere. So why target Disney? Is Sanders unaware that Disney has been a strong supporter of gay rights since before it was fashionable among liberals? Is he unaware that Disney is a fair employer of older workers, minorities and disabled people, and has been since before other employers were forced to hire more equitably? Why is he targeting one of the better large employers?

    I can understand that Sanders might have singled out Disney because of their visibility, but shouldn't he perhaps have checked the temperature for attitudes toward Disney before launching this current campaign? Nearly every CA teen has worked there at some point, visited as children and again as young adults on dates, and hold strongly positive views of the organization. The average wage for Disney Corporation employees is $60K.

    I think Bernie is making a big mistake with this that will backfire on his attempt to recruit in CA. People here like Disney.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then you might like this.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yagwh_6yjYs

      Leroy

      Delete
    2. A long time ago linguists thought that exposure to media would erase local accents and people would all speak the same, no more dialects in Great Britain, for example. What actually happened is the opposite. Local dialects have been preserved because exposure to media didn't change how people talked to each other.

      Other aspects of culture are similarly local and not imposed by the media, no matter how pervasive it can be argued to be. Culture doesn't work that way. Fortunately. But your guy doesn't seem to have gotten the message. That's why going to college is important -- you find out what the facts are, as established by field research, instead of hypothesized by people pulling ideas out of their asses.

      It was once thought that due to the influence of Western culture, local cultures would be homogenized into one global culture. Guess what? That hasn't happened. Different places are still different from each other culturally.

      But if this is why Bernie is attacking a beloved icon of many people's childhoods, I still think he is misguided in his choice. The park workers have nothing to do with ABC. How much of an inroad has Disney made into China, where most of the world's people live? Or India? Not much. So this guy's scare tactics seem premature.

      Delete
    3. How much of an inroad has Disney made into China, where most of the world's people live? Or India?

      Your Strangelovian advice to Sanders that he should stop worrying and start loving the Iron Law of Wages aside, I think you meant to say China is a country where more people live than here in the U.S. The combined populations of China and India are just over a third of the world's total population according to the numbers at this LINK.

      Delete
    4. I'm suggesting that Bernie could have picked a better target. It doesn't matter exactly how many people live in China and India.

      Delete
    5. From "China, where most of the world's people live" to "It doesn't matter exactly how many people live in China and India." Wow. LINK

      Delete
    6. This is why people don't like you CMike.

      Delete
    7. Who made you the spokesperson for the humorless 12:03 AM?

      Delete
    8. Whoever told you you were funny 1:19 AM?

      Delete
    9. @ 8:25 PM - Thanks for proving my point.

      Delete
    10. Anon @ 6:11

      So you're "people" now? Might want to get that checked. And answering Cmike as 1:19 is quite funny. You do have a sense of humor! Or at least, irony.

      Leroy

      Delete
    11. There's Leroy right on cue - with pooper-scooper in hand.

      Delete
  12. Maureen Dowd is as obsessive against Hillary and Obama as Trump is. Again, she is pushing Biden to run.

    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/06/daddy-issues

    Somerby doesn't bother talking about Dowd any more. Too busy complaining about Traister and Bee, women who are actually feminists and trying to make things better for women and especially immigrant families.

    Ignore the big stuff, focus on the trivialities -- that's how you achieve change in our world!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Riverdaughter (Confluence) quotes this, attributing polarization and treating opponents as The Other to just one end of the political spectrum:

    "A new study, however, suggests that the main threat to our democracy may not be the hardening of political ideology, but rather the hardening of one particular political ideology. Political scientists Steven V. Miller of Clemson and Nicholas T. Davis of Texas A&M have released a working paper titled “White Outgroup Intolerance and Declining Support for American Democracy.” Their study finds a correlation between white American’s intolerance, and support for authoritarian rule. In other words, when intolerant white people fear democracy may benefit marginalized people, they abandon their commitment to democracy."

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-effect-new-study-connects-white-american-intolerance-support-authoritarianism-ncna877886

    Somerby is here berating us when he should be over at the conservative sites berating them. We aren't the problem.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In other news, studies show rain is wet.

      Delete
  14. "People who express views we liberals don't share are not necessarily evil!"

    Yes, but people who aren't necessarily evil can espouse evil things.

    It's certainly possible that the slaveholders weren't necessarily evil. I'm sure many of them went to church and assured themselves of Jesus' support of their Cause.

    But this in no way changes the fact that that Cause was evil.

    Surely, people of conscience can speak out against evil things?

    And surely, those people who make the evil policies, the elites like Ivanka and her father, are more deserving of criticism than the average Other? Why does respect for the Other extend to respect for Their Elites? That is what Somerby seems to be saying. Those elites are the ones conning the rubes and merit special and harsh criticism.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Powerful Effective Love Spell Get Your Ex Back About a month ago I got back to my ex(after 2 and half years separated).Everything was ok and she was the most adorable woman in the world. she spoke about wedding ceremony, how many kids we would have, said that our relationship was the most important thing in her life and he was 100% sure about it…Then he traveled to work in other country for 3 weeks. he changed his behavior completely. he disappeared every night, was saying she had to do some work and would talk to me later, but disappeared the rest of the day and night… no explanation, when I asked why she was disappearing every night, she stopped answering me. she’s ignoring me since last week, April 15. she ignored even my birthday, that was April 16. Not even a message. I wrote to her a few times trying to understand what happened, she read but just ignored me.I feel so bad cause I couldn’t stop contacting and trying to understand what happened.i loved her so much and wanted to get her back, then i was told to contact happylovespell2@gmail.com who can help out with a love spell to reunite your relationship back, so instantly do contact him and give him a try and trust me he did an urgent effective love spell for me and with 46hours promise he made to me, my woman was back, today i testify to you all that you should seek and contact Dr happy for his spell result is genuine sure and guarantee unite and get your ex back save your marriage/relationship problem now, email happlovespell2@gmail.com you can also know more about his spell Blogs site.http://happylovespel.blogspot.com.ng/ Whatsapp/cal +2348133873774

    ReplyDelete
  16. Your article reflects the issue people are concerned about. The article provides timely information that reflects multi-dimensional views from multiple perspectives. I look forward to reading quality articles that contain timely information from you.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Everyone is very interested in your article. Keep on blogging.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Powerful Effective Love Spell Get Your Ex Back About a month ago I got back to my ex(after 2 and half years separated).Everything was ok and she was the most adorable woman in the world. she spoke about wedding ceremony, how many kids we would have, said that our relationship was the most important thing in her life and he was 100% sure about it…Then he traveled to work in other country for 3 weeks. he changed his behavior completely. he disappeared every night, was saying she had to do some work and would talk to me later, but disappeared the rest of the day and night… no explanation, when I asked why she was disappearing every night, she stopped answering me. she’s ignoring me since last week, April 15. she ignored even my birthday, that was April 16. Not even a message. I wrote to her a few times trying to understand what happened, she read but just ignored me.I feel so bad cause I couldn’t stop contacting and trying to understand what happened.i loved her so much and wanted to get her back, then i was told to contact happylovespell2@gmail.com who can help out with a love spell to reunite your relationship back, so instantly do contact him and give him a try and trust me he did an urgent effective love spell for me and with 46hours promise he made to me, my woman was back, today i testify to you all that you should seek and contact Dr happy for his spell result is genuine sure and guarantee unite and get your ex back save your marriage/relationship problem now, email happlovespell2@gmail.com you can also know more about his spell Blogs site.http://happylovespel.blogspot.com.ng/ Whatsapp/cal +2348133873774

    ReplyDelete
  19. Powerful Effective Love Spell Get Your Ex Back About a month ago I got back to my ex(after 2 and half years separated).Everything was ok and she was the most adorable woman in the world. she spoke about wedding ceremony, how many kids we would have, said that our relationship was the most important thing in her life and he was 100% sure about it…Then he traveled to work in other country for 3 weeks. he changed his behavior completely. he disappeared every night, was saying she had to do some work and would talk to me later, but disappeared the rest of the day and night… no explanation, when I asked why she was disappearing every night, she stopped answering me. she’s ignoring me since last week, April 15. she ignored even my birthday, that was April 16. Not even a message. I wrote to her a few times trying to understand what happened, she read but just ignored me.I feel so bad cause I couldn’t stop contacting and trying to understand what happened.i loved her so much and wanted to get her back, then i was told to contact happylovespell2@gmail.com who can help out with a love spell to reunite your relationship back, so instantly do contact him and give him a try and trust me he did an urgent effective love spell for me and with 46hours promise he made to me, my woman was back, today i testify to you all that you should seek and contact Dr happy for his spell result is genuine sure and guarantee unite and get your ex back save your marriage/relationship problem now, email happlovespell2@gmail.com you can also know more about his spell Blogs site.http://happylovespel.blogspot.com.ng/ Whatsapp/cal +2348133873774

    ReplyDelete
  20. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FOR THE WISE,PROSPER LOAN FIRM IS THE ONLY WAY OUT FROM ANY FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES { prosperloanfirm@yahoo.com }

    Greetings great mind, It will be my greatest pleasure saving Individuals and companies from extortion, I know not everyone will want to take it upon their self to reveal the bitter truth about online Lending because of insecurity, Time of doing it and all that. I Ryan F. Tyler, an outstanding businessman who reside at Oakland, California has taken it upon himself to share this article to whom it may concern so they can learn and educate their self from it . It's bad to the extend where you see testimonies online about getting a loan and it turn out to be fake. For real i have fallen for that tricks countless time to the extend i lost almost 65,000usd in total all in the name of getting a loan to invest in a very lucrative business. After so many failed attempt of securing a loan, I and my Manager went online to do a thorough search and found this company PROSPER LOAN FIRM +1(816) 366-8769 ) but before giving it a try we also went ahead to make sure they are registered under BBB, check their reviews and also go to their headquarter to confirm their existence and capability.We were so careful because we didn't wanted to lose any dime again and to our greatest expectation they deliver according to their review and grant us our desire loan amount of 510,000.00Usd. A word to everyone out there when it comes to Online Lenders contact only PROSPER LOAN FIRM via email: { prosperloanfirm@yahoo.com } or drop a message to them via text at +1(816) 366-8769 and consider all your financial problems tackled and solved.#SHARE, You can rescue someone from been victimized today, Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Call Dr.Dave For Urgent Love Spell +55 (11) 97732-4658
    I'm Olivia Megan from United State,I'm happy that my husband is back into my life after 2 years of divorce, Dr.Davi brought my husband back today and i am so excited. I got Dr.Davi email online when a lady was testifying about the strong spell caster who restored her marriage then I said to myself since he helped her, he can also help me,so i emailed him and told him the pain that I was going through,and he told me what to do and i did it,Then he did an urgent Love spell for me. 48 hours later, my husband came back home and with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me. Then from that day,our marriage was now stronger than how it were before, All thanks to Dr.Davi. Our family is complete again. If you are going through Divorce/Broke-up since Dr.Davi helped me, he can also help you..email him at: Spelltemple@fastmail.com,Thank you Dr Davi for saving my broken Marriage and brought my husband back to me.
    Email him: Spelltemple@fastmail.com Call him now +55 (11) 97732-4658  

    ReplyDelete
  22. Call Dr.Dave For Urgent Love Spell +55 (11) 97732-4658
    I'm Olivia Megan from United State,I'm happy that my husband is back into my life after 2 years of divorce, Dr.Davi brought my husband back today and i am so excited. I got Dr.Davi email online when a lady was testifying about the strong spell caster who restored her marriage then I said to myself since he helped her, he can also help me,so i emailed him and told him the pain that I was going through,and he told me what to do and i did it,Then he did an urgent Love spell for me. 48 hours later, my husband came back home and with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me. Then from that day,our marriage was now stronger than how it were before, All thanks to Dr.Davi. Our family is complete again. If you are going through Divorce/Broke-up since Dr.Davi helped me, he can also help you..email him at: Spelltemple@fastmail.com,Thank you Dr Davi for saving my broken Marriage and brought my husband back to me.
    Email him: Spelltemple@fastmail.com Call him now +55 (11) 97732-4658  

    ReplyDelete
  23. I AM FINALLY FREE FROM FINANCIAL BONDAGE THANKS TO MOORE LOAN COMPANY (mooreloancompany@yahoo.com).

    Good day everyone,I can’t hide this great testimony that took place in my life I will love everyone to know it and be a partaker of this, that is why I want to share it to the whole world by placing this advert on classifieds, I am Mrs Karen Brown by name, I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee United State, I want to thank ROBBINSON MOORE for his kindness upon my family life, I never knew that there is still a sincere and trustworthy lender like this on the internet and on earth. Just some days I was in search for a loan of $ 100,000.00, As I was running out of money for feeding, School fees, My business was really going out of capital and my rent. I was scammed about $15,000.00 dollars and I decided not to involve my self in such business again. But a Friend of mine introduced me to a loan firm due to my appearance and doings and also my complains to her. And I told her that I am not interested in any loan deal anymore but she told me that there is still a sincere lender who she will recommend me to, And she gave me the details of this man who is called MOORE ROBBINSON. And I really put a trial and I am most greatful and lucky today, I was given a loan amount of $95,000,00 Dollars by this great firm MOORE LOAN COMPANY. If you arew in need of a genuine, Sincere, durable and a truth worthy loan lender or financial assistance and also you know you can be reliable and trusted, capable of paying back at the due / duration time of the funds I will advice you to send your contact to them via email @[ mooreloancompany@yahoo.com] OR Text (414) 454-9493 . And you will be free from scams on the internet. Please I am begging everyone on earth to help me thank Mr ROBBINSON MOORE. And I ill always being sharing this great surprise and testimony that happened in my life everyday to all that need loans. Contact them now if you are in need of a loan: AS THEY ARE EFFICIENT,DYNAMIC AND RELAIBLE.....Again there contact email [mooreloancompany@yahoo.com OR Text (414) 454-9493.

    ReplyDelete