WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2024
The claims voters hear on cable: By all accounts, the once bipartisan border deal has officially crashed and burned.
In a front-page report in this morning's New York Times, Baker and Edmondson described yesterday's televised speech by President Biden concerning the bill's apparent fail:
Border Deal Is Doomed, and Biden Puts the Blame Squarely on Trump
[...]
“I understand the former president is desperately trying to stop this bill because he’s not interested in solving the border problem,” Mr. Biden said. “He wants a political issue to run against me on.”
“Republicans have to decide,” he added. “Who do they serve? Donald Trump or the American people?”
He called the bipartisan agreement “a win for America” because it combines the “most fair, humane reforms” to immigration law and “the toughest set of reforms to secure the border” at a time of record illegal migration. To buttress his point, he cited support from institutions normally favorable to Republicans, including The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Border Patrol Council, a union that endorsed Mr. Trump in 2016 and 2020.
“If this bill fails, I want to be absolutely clear about something,” Mr. Biden said. “The American people are going to know why it failed. I’ll be taking this issue to the country.”
We only hope that Candidate Biden will be able to make good on that promise. Yesterday, as he spoke on behalf of the bill, he cited a trio of red-leaning entities which had voiced their support for the bill.
The Wall Street Journal editorial page wrote a formal editorial in support of the bill. Yesterday, on the Fox News Channel program The Five, the lone Democrat on the five-member panel went right ahead and said so!
It was Harold Ford in the suicide seat, opposed by all four fellow panelists. In the course of his remarks, he had already cited the Wall Street Journal's editorial in support of the deal.
A bit later, sure enough! When he cited the Border Patrol Union's support, this exchange with Jeanine Pirro occurred:
PIRRO (2/7/24): The fact that we already have the laws on the books, and Joe Biden won't let the border patrol enforce the laws, is reason enough to believe that, even if we pass something, Joe Biden's agenda is to let them in.
FORD: Why do you think the Border Patrol Union endorsed this?
PIRRO: Because they didn't have a chance.
Say what? "Because they didn't have a chance?"
Even within the fuller context, that faltering reply by Pirro didn't make any obvious sense. And yes, that was Pirro's full reply. As we review the tape of that exchange, we see no sign that she had anything else to add.
We'd call it a non-answer answer! But at this point, Dana Perino broke in and brought the segment to its end. Fox News viewers weren't required to see "Judge Jeanine" pushed to offer a reply to Ford which seemed to make more sense.
In her work on this 5 p.m. pig-pile show, with four red tribe panelists arrayed against a single lone blue, Pirro relentlessly takes the prize as interrupter of the year. In this case, though, she managed to emit one essential talking point before Ford posed his question.
"We already have the laws on the books," she said. It's just that Biden won't enforce them!
In the past few days, red tribe viewers have heard variants of that claim again and again and again. Here was slacker panelist Jesse Watters, making a highly improbable claim at the start of this same discussion:
WATTERS (2/6/24): So, we looked it up. Any president since 1952 can shut down the border if he finds the entry of aliens is detrimental to the United States. He can shut the whole thing down like that [SNAPS FINGERS] So he's asking Congress for powers he already has.
The claim that Watters "looked something up" bumps on the limits of human credulity. That said, viewers of Fox News programs heard it again and again last night:
President Biden already has all the powers he needs to bring the border under control. For example, he could simply restore the "Remain in Mexico" policy, the way his predecessor did.
Citizens watching Fox News programs heard such claims again and again, right through the opening segment of the channel's 11 p.m. program.
Ever so briefly, Ford was there to offer an alternate view during The Five. But under current arrangements, that's about as much diversity of viewpoint as anyone will ever see on the Fox News Channel or on primetime MSNBC programs.
Red tribe viewers have heard it again and again—Biden has all the authority he needs to bring the border under control. Blue tribe viewers were hearing all night about the most recent court ruling concerning the ongoing attempts to frog-march Trump to jail.
That court ruling was a real news event—but dearest readers, please riddle us this:
How many viewers of blue tribe programs would know how to answer the Fox News claims concerning Biden's pre-existing powers? How many viewers could hope to explain what was wrong with the claim made by Pirro and by Watters?
At one time, cable news discussion shows ran on the Crossfire / Point/Counterpoint model. A Republican and / or conservative panelist would make a claim about some issue. A Democratic and / or liberal panelist would offer a rebuttal.
Viewers were forced to hear competing claims. Depending on the moderator's skills, a real debate or discussion might take place.
The Crossfire model has given way to "segregation by viewpoint." Dear readers, riddle us this:
Could you explain how this border bill was or is supposed to work? Would you know how to respond to the claim that President Biden already has all the powers he needs, right at the present time?
We'll say right now that we couldn't do that! Just a guess:
Given the way our two-tribe news culture currently works, neither could anyone else!
The rich need more yachts, than the people need walls.
ReplyDeleteAre you new here?*
* here = USA.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-biden-border-authority/
ReplyDeletehttps://apnews.com/article/biden-border-election-2024-republicans-3e905afaf7a68387aa58296e6cf91890
https://thehill.com/latino/4437551-biden-shut-down-border-security-immigration/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/01/fact-check-biden-border-congress/
Clyde Taylor, Sebastián Piñera, and Lowitja O'Donoghue have died.
ReplyDeleteOur country has laws regarding the treatment of people seeking political asylum. The GOP would like to pretend we don't.
ReplyDeleteConservatives took the supreme Court with a movement not with laws. You should consider politics involve more than the monopoly rules. Sometimes life isn't a board game or a thing to hall monitor.
Deletewtf?
DeleteI agree with you about the this I'm just prodding you to bring in more depth. There's interesting history behind the issues of the day.
DeleteWe should be sharing history of people who were welcoming to immigrants in the past rather than just saying "x law y rule, z opinion"
Politics isn't just laws it's also how to make contact with deep meaning in our lives. The religious right wing took the supreme Court by teaching people a version of events in years of propaganda.
So you have to be able to craft a reasonable version of events beyond just "the rule is this follow the rule." People aren't responding to simple politics like that. They never really have.
People want to hear context and ideas, see leadership and change and not just be told who is right.
Your understanding of the supreme court is wrong.
DeleteThe only way the federalist society got so powerful was people like Jerry Falwell bringing in the religious right
DeleteThe US is experiencing an artificial issue. Trump's invasion narrative is reaching traction with the militarized media response and this is the US backsliding into its old xenophobia.
ReplyDeletePeople always travel from bad economies, dangerous weather, etc to find work and to live with family. Those movements of people in northern America go back hundreds of years and are natural patterns of travel.
The extra government inefficiency and red tape against migrants is not centered in any one law. It's just the powerful people change the laws every so often to make more or less people cross at the right point or the wrong point. So the number of "illegal"crossings are relative to how the US unilaterally and chaotically declares what is the right way to cross, and it's currently overstated as a result. This is just red tape the US is creating out of thin air.
It's like shooting arrows at a barn then drawing the circles around them after and declaring bull's-eye.
Other countries kill blasphemers to keep popular anger divided and conquered. America has election season violence.
We working class and middle class Americans condescendingly get the simple medicine of "here's someone for your to look down on." Chudbuckets are so proud they never illegally immigrated to North Korea like they were ever tempted! The illegal immigration issue flatters the naturalized citizens that they never "became a criminal" (it's not a crime to seek asylum) .
We in the American proletariat didn't negotiate any deal or any border, but the media owners just give yourself credit for not experiencing the world outside your bubble. For staying put with your own kind. That's the segregation and conquer agenda, that's the agenda of ignoring climate and economic refugees etc.
The distraction of immigration politics is the ultimate participation trophy.
Sources:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/feb/02/ask-politifact-can-joe-biden-shut-down-the-border/
https://fair.org/home/people-have-to-be-able-to-access-the-asylum-process-regardless-of-manner-of-entry/
You’re right. I wouldn’t consider migrating to North Korea.
DeleteThen don't turn America into a paranoid xenophobic military state
Delete@4:44 PM
DeleteIf not "paranoid xenophobic military", would you like it to still be a state? Or just a territory, open territory where anyone can move? Sorta like the Wild West, in the 19th century?
The US can simplify the process of immigration and stop creating death zones at the very minimum.
DeleteThere's a hypocrisy that everyone is against big government, they want to drown it in a bathtub etc but they also demand border camps and razor wire.
DeleteWhat's a "death zone", and what does it mean to "simplify the process of immigration"? Simplify how?
DeletePoorly trained Eastern European troll knows nothing about the IS so he improvises by talking about the proletariat.
DeleteUS not IS
DeleteThe US has arrested people for giving water to asylum seekers. They block off natural routes of seasonal labor migration then call them illegal so they can't form unions. Oldest trick in the book, happens to benefit the rich.
DeleteI'm a secular Jewish social democrat with an interest in sociology. My family fled Eastern Europe, many were sent to camps.
DeleteI'll say this from Torah though, the jealousy of Sarah against Abraham's slave wife is taking over modern religion and making people distrustful of their neighboring nations.
DeleteImmigration history and labor history are linked. Do you agree?
DeleteClimate related migration is going to make our current concerns seem quaint. Even within the US people will be moving and creating new tensions, like the dust bowl migration of 1933 on steroids. Homeless camps and soup kitchens and itinerant labor (hobos) everywhere and all frim US states, not other countries (if we build a wall, which seems not technically feasible).
DeleteI think most people in the world live their lives where they were born, or near. I don't think mass-migration is a normal, typical situation. I think it's usually a result of some calamity.
DeleteSee the film A Million Miles Away for a depiction of migrant farmworkers in the US and Mexico. It is accurate for that time period, and yes, people worked seasonally and migrated hundreds of miles between two countries as a lifestyle.
DeleteThe first world has very high rents and the third world has very low social spending. The US is rich enough we could house whichever population we want. In fact we already have large populations of mostly Mexicans doing a lot of labor. It's just identity politics getting in the way of recognizing their rights to organize and have decent lives. The same way you should be allowed to organize against a greedy landlord.
DeleteWell, there are small groups of nomads, of course. Always have been, and some are still around. Roma, Bedouin, etc. But they are exceptions, I think.
DeleteI see no reason to build an all-encompassing philosophy around a few small exceptions.
How can something that always exists also be the exception? You're not making sense.
DeleteWhy should be Mexicans doing a lot of labor in the US? Why wouldn't Mexicans do a lot of labor in Mexico, and US people do a lot of labor in the US? That would Seem to make more sense, and create no problems.
Delete@5:40 PM
DeleteEasily.
The US (United States) also spells “us”.
DeleteRight wingers say the darnedest things.
So should Jewish people in New York move back to Israel?
DeleteJust saying you're racist isn't really policy direction
DeleteEveryone should be deported to Europe then by your logic. Race isn't real.
DeleteIf you watched the film, the family was building a home in Mexico and paying for it with the higher wages people could earn in the US during harvest season. Employers in the US do not need farm workers all year, but they need a lot of workers all at once when crops have ripened, to get them out of the fields before they spoil or bad weather arrives. Workers go from farm to farm then return to their home in Mexico.
DeleteMore recent "economic" immigration occurs because jobs pay better in the US than in Mexico. A worker can live cheaply in the US, work at a job that pays much more than in Mexico (or another country), send money home and support relatives. People do that from all over the world because of the pay differentials. For example, staff on cruise ships are often from countries where their salary can support their family in comfort in their home country. One man in that position told me that his restaurant business at home had failed and his child had a major illness but he had been rescued by a cruise ship job that permitted him to pay for his child's medical treatment. Situations like that make me angry that Trump characterizes such people as gang members and rapists.
Yowsers!! I haven't heard a debate this heated since chapter 4 of the Chronicles of Fat Cat and Fanny Boy!
DeleteThe best place in the world for Jews is America.
Delete
Delete"More recent "economic" immigration occurs because jobs pay better in the US than in Mexico. A worker can live cheaply in the US, work at a job that pays much more than in Mexico (or another country), send money home and support relatives."
Correct. This creates problems in both Mexico (drain of productive manpower) and the US, where it suppresses wages, undermines unionization, prevents mechanization of labor. Both Mexico and the US deteriorate.
Yes, individuals have incentives. And when it's a problem, government's role is to create counter-incentives.
"Situations like that make me angry that Trump characterizes such people as gang members and rapists."
People who abandon their communities, illegally cross the border, and live in a hostile unfamiliar environment without legal status, are prone to organize into ethnic enclaves and gangs. With all kinds of criminal shit inside, and, occasionally, outside those enclaves.
This is crap. There are gangs in both the US and Mexico (and other countries). They organize around drugs. There is no need to travel to the US in order to do that.
DeleteZero sources from your claims except the place you pulled them out of
DeleteThis idea that one is breaking a majestic law by living in two countries sometimes and they're betraying people is a fabrication if your fever dreams from the media. Get a life man...
DeleteIf white people are educated in Switzerland they're called classy but if a brown Mexican works in America he's a traitor. Something doesn't add up here. Can white people decide if things are classy or not?
Delete5:43 There are 20 foot hedges to be trimmed in South Hampton. You think they're contracting with a white boy for that work?
DeleteI don't separate people into white and non-white, DNC bot. I am not a liberal.
DeleteI am sure "they" will hire anyone who agrees to take the job. And if there are no illegals to exploit, that will be a citizen or legal resident, and the wage will be higher. Or "they" will order a hedge-trimming machine. Capiche?
Thanks for letting us know how you think the world works, ahole, starting with the holier than thou remark about your purity of thought regarding race followed by the phony labeling of a stranger. They can also get martians to trim their hedges with space lasers, but they don’t. And they don’t, as in never, have to hire higher wage workers for that work, except in your imaginary world.
DeleteAh, a triggered idiot-moonbat again. Yawn.
DeleteThe US isn't being invaded, so building a wall would be a monument to xenophobic media paranoia and a waste of money.
ReplyDeleteWhen other countries have fear of America it's because of their lying government and media, but when America has fear of everyone else it's because the government only scares us with the truth
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of jobs and things to sell the government to make a more militarized border. There's a lobby just for making money off the issue. Ignoring that glaring conflict of interest turns the issue into petty identity politics rather than give people a contextual and balanced political analysis.
ReplyDeleteIf Pirro was not pressed on her answer because Perino broke in and ended the segment, it was because it was time for a commercial. Fox is not PBS.
ReplyDeleteWe answered that troll question yesterday in comments.
ReplyDeleteBuilding a wall can't be a monument. The wall itself can be a symbolic monument. To you. But that's just your personal emptions.
ReplyDeleteAre you aware that countries have borders? Citizens? Legal residents? Laws defining their rights and obligations? Law enforcement agencies enforcing these laws? Consulates, visas? Border guards?
Ever heard these words?
Somerby asks whether Dems know anything about the border bill, but does Somerby understand that killing it denied funding for Ukraine, Israel and Palestinian aid? It doesn’t appear so.
ReplyDeletePeople are saying that Trump killed the bill in order to campaign on border issues, but perhaps he mainly wanted to stop Ukraine aid, on Putin’s behalf? That seems more likely to me. Or both reasons may apply.
The bar is low but you are way smarter than Somerby.
DeleteSounds like "the border bill" isn't really much of a border bill.
DeleteI don't see Ukraine, Israel and Palestinian on our border so why are you calling it a border bill?
Use google to answer majorly ignorant questions before bothering other people.
DeleteWhy would you call it a border bill? Only 17 percent of it goes to the border. Most of it goes to other country's wars. It should be called the 'Other Country's Wars' bill. Or the 'Endless War Bill". Or the 'Both Political Parties are Beholden to the Military Industrial Complex" bill.
DeleteI think it should be called "The Bill Republicans Begged For, Then Abandoned", or maybe "When Will The Media Learn?" bill.
Delete"The Phony Crisis At the Border" bill.
Delete"The Snowflakes Afraid Of Child Refugees" bill.
Delete"The Proof That Republicans Are Full Of Shit" bill.
DeleteSomeone please change 5:12's diaper
ReplyDeleteMaybe if Bob wasn’t watching the dumbest of the the dumb, he might want to ponder if the Republicans backed out of this in deference to his poor mental case friend. That would seem to be the question of the moment, but Bob doesn’t really care.
ReplyDeleteBuilding a border wall is typically something countries/empires do as they are coming to an end.
ReplyDeleteHere’s what we learned from Trump the other day:
We need to be concerned about something called “supply change”
The border/immigration bill that was written and sponsored by Republicans, the most conservative bill of its type in modern times, is actually a “Democrat trap”
There is a large amount evidence demonstrating that our elections are not “free and fair”, but according to Trump nobody is interested in the evidence so he’s not distributing it.
Right wingers say the darnedest things.
Regardless of any written law, I believe the President has the authority to close the border if he considers it to be an emergency. Several Governors took comparable unwritten authority for various dramatic actions during the covid emergency. Some of these actions had a bigger impact on Americans than shutting border. E.g., shutting down schools.
ReplyDeleteYou can't apply the exception every time other wise it's not the exception.
Delete"With the travel ban, the court was dealing with people who were outside the United States. With the southern border, people already on U.S. soil are allowed to seek asylum. "
Deletehttps://www.politifact.com/article/2024/feb/02/ask-politifact-can-joe-biden-shut-down-the-border/
There are arguments that the bill would do more harm than good to illegal immigration. I don't know enough to evaluate both sides of the debate, but here are anti-arguments:
ReplyDeleteIn the report, the former officials point to the funding for non-governmental organizations and cities, including "sanctuary" jurisdictions, to receive migrants released into the U.S. They argue that "machinery" should be shut down, not given more money to operate.
They also say the bill "accepts and codifies crisis levels of daily illegal immigration"with the current levels of the border emergency authority. They note that the authority is limited, with the secretary only being able to activate the authority for 180 days by year three and allowing for it to be suspended for 45 days.
"Continuing to allow these crisis-level numbers of illegal-alien encounters means that border agents would remain overwhelmed, and more illegal crossers would evade the agents — turning into ‘gotaways’ — and bad actors would slip through limited and rushed vetting," they say.
5 KEY DETAILS IN CONTROVERSIAL SENATE BORDER DEAL
Despite claims by supporters of the bill that the measures would lead to an increase in expedited removals and therefore fewer releases into the interior, the officials say that the bill would continue "catch and release" and end the statute requiring detention by changing detention to "noncustodial detention," applying it only to adults.
Your life is boring
DeleteDavid you show no awareness that the bill in question is being proposed by Republicans and would enact the very thing Republicans have been whining for.
DeleteThe opposition to the bill solely comes from Trump, and those he dominates, who oppose the bill on the basis that it interferes with Trump’s self serving personal agenda.
One underlying problem is the length and complexity of Congressional bills. Hundreds of pages long, covering a wide variety of topics, written in legalese. Anyone who wants to portray the bill as either bad or as good will be able for find some words supporting his position.
ReplyDeleteI believe in small government. Now pass the razor fencing for the migration detention facility.
DeleteDavid, thank you for providing more evidence for why you belong to the No-Can-Do Party.
DeleteWhat is wrong with you, you stupid motherfucker? You talk like that bill just fell from the sky suddenly. Are you fucking dumb or just your usual trolling bullshit?
As Rachel Maddow said, we have one regular political party and on the other side, a guy.
@8:25 I think both parties are worse than No-Can-Do. Both parties makes laws that benefit various special interests, and that benefit the lawmakers themselves. I no longer believe that the government will solve our problem or even that it will make things better
DeleteI'm not an anarchist. I just think we already have a lot too many laws and regulations. The government has too much power IMO. I don't like either party. I dislike the Democrats more because they expand government power even faster than the Republicans.
David,
DeleteThen why all the cosplaying about the need for the government to do something about the border?
David, you're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears.
DeleteFrom Rawstory:
ReplyDelete"Trump has made clear that he would use the Department of Justice to target his enemies if re-elected, and he listed some of them by name.
"That would be the end of the Presidency, and our Country, as we know it, and is just one of the many Traps there would be for a President without Presidential Immunity," Trump posted. "Obama, Bush, and soon, Crooked Joe Biden, would all be in PRISON. Protect Presidential Immunity. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"
David in Cal doesn't love Trump because of Trump's Adderall addiction. He loves Trump because of Trump's bigotry.
DeleteThat doesn't really seem that scary. And it's Rawstory. A bunch of white, partisan idiots. They're always gushing and frightened.
DeleteNo one thinks he will get to follow through on his threats. That he is making such threats, in a fit of pique, illustrates Trump’s total disregard for law. If you don’t care anout that, you are in the wrong place.
DeleteRawstory is DNC propaganda. Everything they say is something the DNC wants you to think and believe. Every single story.
Delete10:00 He's not making any threats. That's propaganda.
DeleteRawstory is trying to get you to think he's making threats. They are trying to turn you into a DNC robot. He wasn't making threats. They are trying to scare you and they are hoping you will share their propaganda and it was scare others. Don't play their game!
DeleteRawstory is a gaggle of aging white men spreading DNC propaganda to other aging whites. Don't fall into their trap.
DeleteShut up Mao.
DeleteDidn't Rawstory accuse Trump of threatening to lard the Supreme Court with a bunch of religious yahoos who would overturn Roe v Wade, too?
DeleteDNC real world claptrap.
The original report above "from Rawstory" is bullshit, DNC propaganda. Trump didn't threaten anyone and a child could see they took the quote out of context in order to frighten weak, aging, white DNC robots like whoever posted that above. And in order to give aging, white DNC robots like whoever posted that above DNC propaganda to share and try to scare other cowardly, aging, white DNC robots. It's boring. We don't need to see anything "from Rawstory" because anything "from Rawstory" will be exactly what the DNC whats people to think. Instead of posting stories "from Rawstory", just post the DNC twitter page.
DeleteBe real about who you are and what you are trying to do.
10:09,
DeleteThank you.
I've been asking someone to point out the "liberal media" for years Thanks to you, I now know that there really is a "liberal media, and that it's "Rawstory".
Raw story is funded by foundations that are independent to politicians, and has criticized large donors to the Democratic party.
DeleteIt certainly is liberal media. It's not DNC based.
3:54,
ReplyDeleteWe should wait until Republicans care about the border issue. Why spend the money, if we might never have the need to?
Anonymouse 8:59pm, that and drinking the blood of gentile infants.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that attaching the blood libel to a Jewish commenter's post is funny or cute? Are you signaling to white supremacist fellow travelers? There is no place for this in the USA. You are an awful person.
DeleteKevin looks at the fence:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/whats-up-with-that-gap-in-the-border-fence/
In an article in Newsweek, Sen Rubio wrote
ReplyDeleteFederal law, the same law that former President Trump operated on, gives this White House the power to "suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens" when the national interest is at stake.
I'm not familiar with all the immigration laws, so I can't confirm this allegation. The use of quotation makes it sound convincing, but one would have to read the entire law to be sure.
Literally how does this affect your life? Touch grass
DeleteWhen Republicans finish congratulating themselves on rejecting legislation they coauthored they can resume the important business of broadcasting Hunter Biden's dick pics. Quoting Rubio followed by the the disclaimer that you don't know what he's talking about will not get you a place on the Jr Varsity debate team.
ReplyDeleteRep. Ryan Zinke, R-Mont., told Axios. "We've exceeded my wildest expectations on blocking, because we not only block the Democrat agenda, we block the Republican agenda. We don't have command of the field."
ReplyDeleteYou can take that quote to the bank after Republicans, in a single day, accomplish a trifecta: rejecting a bill they coauthored, failure to impeach the director of homeland security, and failure to fund a stand alone Israel aid bill.
After Republicans tanked the border security bill, Tim Scott says he voted against a stand-alone bill for Israel/Ukraine aid because: "We should first secure our southern border".
DeleteWhen will Democrats learn that republicans are not honest brokers. They are just double - dealing liars. This is what DiC lovers about them.
David in cal is just a little paranoid from the media coddling white people like him
DeleteTo answer Bob’s Fox friendly question: because the President is not a king. More evidence of this should come rolling in today. Alas, Bob will be writing about grocery prices.
ReplyDeleteThe US imported more goods from Mexico than China last year, for the first time in twenty years.
ReplyDeleteRemarkable. And the US trade deficit with the rest of the world narrowed by 10% last year.
Delete“It looks like the Boarder deal has failed”
ReplyDeletePure Orwell. The Boarder deal was killed by the Right to appease Trump, Trump, Trump.
And Bob cares for those damaged not at all.
It shows that Republicans have no shame. They turn on a dime without the slightest bit of embarrasment on what they previously said. If Trump should be the next President (God forbid) do they think that Democrats will again give up many of their positions on immigration as they did here, for Trump?
ReplyDelete