AFTERMATHS: What might the fallout turn out to be...

TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2024

...from all those guilty verdicts? We awoke today to a Brave New World—perhaps to a type of New Morning.

The verdicts were gone from the Times front page. In their place, President Biden has a new border plan.

We had already read this post. In the post, Kevin Drum says that Biden's plan will most likely be killed in the courts. 

For all we know, that assessment may be accurate. But as we read the start of the Times report, we thought we felt "the dark encroachment of that old catastrophe:"

Biden Is Expected to Sign Order Letting Him Seal Border With Mexico

President Biden is expected to sign an executive order on Tuesday allowing him to temporarily seal the U.S. border with Mexico to migrants when crossings surge, a move that would suspend longtime protections for asylum seekers in the United States.

Mr. Biden’s senior aides have told members of Congress in recent days to expect him to sign the order at the White House alongside mayors from South Texas, according to several people familiar with the plans.

The restrictions would kick in once the number of illegal crossings exceeds 2,500 in a day, according to several people who have been briefed on the order. Daily totals already exceed that number, which means that Mr. Biden’s executive order could go into effect immediately.

The border would re-open to asylum seekers if the number of crossings stays below 1,500 for a certain period of time, the people said. They asked for anonymity because the executive order has not been officially announced.

("On Sunday, border agents apprehended more than 3,500 people crossing without authorization, in line with the trends of recent weeks," the Times report said later on.)

So begins the Times report about President Biden's plan. In all candor, we have to admit that we, perhaps like most Times subscribers, don't understand what that passage says.

According to the Times report, President Biden will be able to shut the border "once the number of illegal crossings exceeds 2,500 in a day."  The border "would re-open to asylum seekers if the number of crossings stays below 1,500 for a certain period of time."

Our questions go like this:

Once President Biden has shut the border, how would there be any such "crossings" at all? If the border has been shut, why would there be any crossings?

Also this:

Are "asylum seekers" included in the number of "illegal crossings?" Also, just as a point of curiosity, how many "illegal crossings" occur on a daily basis which the Border Patrol doesn't know about at all? 

We'll guess that very few readers of the Times could answer such basic questions. The "old catastrophe" to which we refer is the catastrophe of incomprehension—a catastrophe which has now jumped from attempts to explain the nature of Donald J. Trump's 34 felonies to attempts to explain the nature of President Biden's new proposal.

The catastrophe in question is very old—it stretches back to the shores of the Aegean, when Plato created the gobbledegook which is still taken as the basis for modern "western philosophy."

It's the old catastrophe of incomprehension—more specifically, of incomprehension which goes unapprehended. In the steady stream of such events, we don't understand what we're talking about—and we don't understand that we don't!

This very morning, at 5 a.m., Way Too Early began MSNBC's broadcast day with this new proposal by President Biden as its number-one topic. And so it went on the front page of the New York Times. 

Elsewhere in today's New York Times, Collins and Stephens were assessing the possible political  fallout of those 34 guilty verdicts. 

At the start of their weekly Conversation, Stephens imagined a gloomy aftermath. We have no idea if he could perhaps be right:

Time Flies When You’re Being Convicted

Gail: Bret, since we last conversed, Donald Trump was convicted on 34 felony charges. Time sure flies. Any thoughts?

Bret: Gail, I yield to nobody in my loathing for La Panza Naranja ["The Orange Panza"], particularly since he stole my grand old party from me. But this conviction, from a flimsy and convoluted case that should never have been brought and may ultimately be reversed on appeal, probably improves his chances of winning in November.

Now tell me I’m totally wrong.

In the view of the gloomy Stephens, the 34 verdicts have probably improved Candidate Trump's chances of winning in November. When Collins lightly disagreed, he went into a bit more detail

Gail: ...So I’d argue that maybe you’re not totally right.

Bret: You might be right that it moved [the mushy middle], but in the wrong direction.

He instantly raised close to $35 million off the verdict. And I doubt that anyone previously inclined to vote for him will now be swayed to vote for President Biden because Trump fiddled with the books seven years ago to cover up a tawdry affair from more than a decade earlier and got convicted in a case brought by a progressive prosecutor in a liberal jurisdiction through an obscure law. The verdict plays to Trump’s argument that the system is out to get him. And it sets a precedent that will come back to haunt Democrats when partisan Republican prosecutors return the favor, as I’m sure they will.

By the way, do you think he should go to prison for this?

Gail: My emotional side would love it, but first offenders in their late 70s charged with a nonviolent offense just don’t go there...

Stephens shares our general view, in which we wish that this particular case had never been brought. (In our view, the prosecutor's decision to bring this case aims to discourage the wrong kind of undesirable conduct.)

At any rate, Stephens thinks the verdicts may help Candidate Trump! We can't swear that that's wrong.

As for Collins, she'd love to see him go to jail. In our view, that too is part of an "old catastrophe" afflicting our human race.

How will the 34 verdicts affect November's election—what might that aftermath look like? We have no earthly idea—and almost surely, neither does anyone else.

That said, the location of the front in our Red / Blue political war has somewhat quickly moved on. With that in mind, we were stunned by something Tim O'Brien said last Friday night. 

O'Brien broke through the mandated tribal claptrap on Stephanie Ruhle's 11th Hour. Believe it or croak, this is what he said:

O'BRIEN (5/31/24): I think a lot of voters have trepidations about whether President Biden can make it through a second term and so they tune out these other things...

I think we should watch for the first debate. I think the reason we're having this first debate early is Joe Biden wants to put that [concern] to rest. I think if he gets embarrassed in that  debate, then there's going to be a lot of pressure on him, from the party, to release his [convention] delegates in August.

[...]

I think it's a calculated risk by the Biden White House to show that he can go physically, verbally, mentally toe to toe [with Candidate Trump].

[...]

I think it is a really pivotal moment for Biden, and I think the White House thought long and hard about it, because he has to overcome this issue that he's feeble and that he lacks the energy to see his presidency through a full second term...I think it is an important thing and I am looking forward to seeing both how the debate proceeds and its impact on the race.

O'Brien is wondering about the possible fallout from the June 27 debate! Is O'Brien allowed to say that?

(To watch tape of the bulk of O'Brien's remarks, you can start by clicking here.)

Faithful servants kept rushing to interject rebuttals to these departures from script. That said, we tend to agree with O'Brien's assessment—with the suggestion that President Biden could imaginably have a hard time making it through that debate with Candidate Trump later this month.

We were quite surprised when the Biden campaign agreed to that debate. Like O'Brien, we can imagine the possibility that the debate will go quite poorly.

That would create a new type of aftermath, an aftermath our scripted cheerleaders from Blue America aren't supposed to imagine, at least not on the air.

Ruhle's producers seemed to have assembled the standard panel of message-mouthers for Friday's "Nightcap" program. Inexplicably, O'Brien broke from mandated tribal wisdom in the remarks we've featured.

On Blue America's "cable news" channel, we're being told that the 34 verdicts have served our electoral interests quite well. That may well turn out to be right.

That said, our tribe's thought leaders have been wrong in virtually all such past assessments concerning Candidate Trump, starting perhaps with his surprising remarks, back in 2015, about former POW John McCain.

They've been wrong again and again and again, but they just keep offering more of their trademark tribal reassurance. O'Brien's behavior was very unusual—and, in our view, it was highly constructive.

What will the fallout be from those 34 guilty verdicts? What will the aftermath turn out to be like?

At this point, we have no real idea. Based on past performance, neither do the well-intentioned hounds from Hell who continue to script our well-intentioned if flailing Blue tribe.


107 comments:


  1. "Kevin Drum says that Biden's plan will most likely be killed in the courts."

    It doesn't matter. The state-run media will be salivating over this "plan" 24x7, and that's the real plan. Most likely.

    "Are "asylum seekers" included in the number of "illegal crossings?""

    Hmm. But isn't every apprehended illegal crosser an "asylum seeker"? It doesn't cost anything to be an "asylum seeker", and one has to be total idiot not to claim to be one.

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    1. Idiots belong in an asylum.

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    2. Good point. Catch 22.

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    3. 9:19 says "But isn't every apprehended illegal crosser an "asylum seeker"? It doesn't cost anything to be an "asylum seeker", and one has to be total idiot not to claim to be one."

      This exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of our immigration circumstance while presenting a false narrative.

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  2. Sam Butcher has died.

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    1. thanks for the useless info, weirdo!

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  3. Apparently some clown "historian" on MSNBC predicts that Mr. Trump's second term would lead to dictatorship and anarchy, simultaneously.

    That's what happens when your talking points industry is not well-organized and coordinated.

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    1. Corporations: You can't live with them, and why would you want to?

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    2. They pay you and you buy food for your family?

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    3. Corporations coerce people into wage slavery, since they have mostly eliminated any other means of acquiring housing and food, and then corporations set about committing wage theft on their wage slaves.

      It is a great system if you are in the top 1% - which arises from privilege and happenstance - and really shitty if you are not.

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    4. Anonymouse 12:38om, people still must make a living.

      I’m not a fan of corps either because they want to engage in real slave labor by shipping things overseas. I also don’t like them when they defund people with platforms over political thought crimes as put forth by media members who pressure them to take such actions.

      They’re globalists and currently they’re working very hard on keeping their phones answered by people in India and with being the muscle for both political parties in order to help that 1%.

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    5. So, Cecelia, are you still planning to vote for Trump?

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    6. Corporations are only interested in maximizing the return on investment. Creating conditions where corporate activities benefit the population is governments' role. But corporations corrupt the governments.

      How to prevent corruption? I don't know. A strongman at the top, who can't be bought, might be a solution. Or a strong popular movement. Ralph Nader tried to create one, but failed. He then wrote a book suggesting that only "the rebellious rich" can save us.

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    7. Anonymouse 1:53pm, are you?

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    8. Anonymouse1:53pm, that was a straight froward answer. No political zooshing. Get a nym. You’re worth it.

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    9. One way to fight corruption is to shine a light on it when it is discovered, then to prosecute it on behalf of the public. This is what has occurred with part of Trump's corruption. There is still a long way to go with that. Look at the resistance from Somerby and the Republicans!

      Trump is not a strong man rooting out corruption. He can be bought for a nickel. He never passes up a grift. He is the epitome of what is meant by corruption, not someone fighting it. Thiel and Musk are not "rebellious rich" but wannabe fascists. This idea of strongmen appeals to such guys and their wealth makes them think they are "special" and should subjugate others. Run away from them!

      Cecelia thinks you are talking about Trump. That's the only reason she thinks you've said something worthy.

      Nader failed, in part, because his narcissism got in the way. A popular movement needs a leader who cares about the populace more than his own self-aggrandizement. He could have waged a consumerist campaign without running for president. He got 1% of the vote and perhaps prevented Al Gore from winning (opinions vary).

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    10. The Russians talked Trump into running by appealing to his vanity.

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    11. Anonymouse 2:32pm, anonymouse 1:53pm, said absolutely nothing about Trump. She straightforwardly opined on the dynamics of the corporate world.

      Contrast her post with your larded down polemical assertions that you seem to take as being logical discussion and analysis.

      The only thing you did differently in this post is that you didn’t make an appeal to authority via references to your own expertise.


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    12. "She" (who has said nothing identifying gender and yet you decide to impose one) talked about strongmen and rebellious wealth. That has nothing to do with the corporate world, which goes about its business without regard to either. If you cannot follow a comment, try not to respond to it.

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    13. Anonymouse 3:15pm, I’m afraid that I’m not going with “it”. I’m defaulting to feminine pronouns.

      Anonymouse 1:53pm said definitive things about corporations. Did you read her post?

      Now if you’re talking about your Mother Superior at 2:32pm, you’re right. She said nothing about anything really. As usual.



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    14. Slow night on the blog? Why not insult a few trans people and mock those who try to be courteous using pronouns? Obscure references to Mother Superior may mean something on right wing blogs but no one here has any idea what you are talking about.

      Why don't you crawl back over to the websites where people will think your jokes are hilarious? No one here likes you.

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  4. Somerby repeats his old theme that no one understands anything expressed using language. That is, of course, untrue.

    The main points of today's essay are twofold: (1) emphasize that Biden cannot actually reduce immigration at the border no matter what his new plan, and (2) suggest that Biden is too old to survive a debate with Trump and should release his delegates and let someone else run.

    Meanwhile, it is Trump who cannot give a coherent interview, to the point where his recent sit-down with Fox was heavily edited. Why should anyone think Biden cannot do a debate with Trump when it is ONLY Biden who has been able to talk spontaneously with press at his appearances and only Biden who makes any sense in his speeches. Trump cannot hold it together but no one is suggesting he release his delegates and retire to FL because he is a liability to the GOP, even though he clearly is. Republicans deserve a better presidential nominee, but Somerby is claiming Biden won't survive a debate!

    And this is how I know that Somerby is not a liberal, no matter what he claims. He has stopped telling the truth just like Trump and his MAGA supporters, and has nothing to offer to anyone here any more. I suggest that Somerby retire his blog and retreat to his pear tree and let actual liberals carry on the fight against right wing fascism. Somerby has become a willing part of the problem our nation faces.

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    1. “I suggest that Somerby retire his blog and retreat to his pear tree and let actual liberals carry on the fight against right wing fascism. Somerby has become a willing part of the problem our nation faces”

      Here you go, Bob. You can x-off today’s date for this month’s declaration.

      How many calendars have you filled over the years?

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    2. What are you talking about?

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  5. Nothing about the money laundering media operation. Nothing about Trump paying off prospective witnesses in his upcoming trials (witness tampering). Nothing about MTG's disrespect to Fauci while another congressional hearing is weaponized against Democrats. Nothing about Biden's support for his son in his trial.

    Today Somerby hammers away at Biden (via O'Brien), scoffing at his new border closure plan (without details). With Biden-supproters like Somerby, who needs enemies?

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    1. At this point. To view Bob as anything but someone determined to advance the fortunes of Donald Trump and his supporters is too silly to give serious consideration. Lock him out.

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    2. Anonymouse 11:42am, if everyone who hated him left here tomorrow, he’d have four commenters.

      You keep the place going. Why?

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    3. Pointing out a con that a grifter is running is not equivalent to hate, therefore your premise is erroneous.

      Somerby's repeating of Republican talking points is a good jumping off place for interesting discourse; however, there are trolls here with the singular goal of disrupting good faith discourse with their nonsense.

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    4. Anonymouse 1:55pm, reread the post at 11:42am to which I responded.

      The post doesn’t say anything other than Bob sucks.

      You current remarks at 1:55pm are really no better because they merely denounce all push back to your “discourse” as coming from trolls (which you have defined as the people who agree with Bob and push back against you).

      You don’t want discourse, you want a circle jerk.

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    5. Somerby is a grifter, following in his grandfather's footsteps. He used to talk explicitly about conning the rubes, back when he first started his blog. And yes, Somerby sucks.

      We frequently have discourse here, despite Somerby's blathering. Then you and Pied Piper and Hector and AC/MA and Mao and fake Corby all come by with the goal of disrupting talk.

      As long as you know what a circle jerk is, why not find one and enjoy yourself elsewhere? You just annoy the real non-bot people here with your self-satisfied ignorance, name-calling and crude mean-spirited "humor" (Somerby wouldn't like your jokes because you are too much like Gutfeld). You constantly need the last word on anything and it only stops when you pass out late in the evening. The Corby troll may love you but the rest of us think you have shit for brains, and we like it better when you are not around. So take a hint and take a hike.

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    6. Anonymouse 3:11pm, it’s astounding to me that you hate the blogger and his blog and you also hate others who don’t hold your political views and/or who like the blogger.

      Bob allows you in here with all your abusive toward him and he also gives entry to the people who admire him. Oh, well, dear.

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    7. BTW- anonymouse 3:11pm, have you considered starting your own blog for you and your friends and blocking it? Or does the fact that Soros won’t pay for that make it prohibitive?

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    8. Blah blah blah mumble mumble Soros blah blah blah something something anonymice blah bl…zzzzz.

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    9. No, it is just you I hate, Cecelia. Because of remarks like that Ashley Biden one. How would you like to have your diary stolen and then made-up supposed excerpts circulated to suggest that your father molested you? Is that what you guys on the right consider funny? It seems to be your form of humor.

      How many Trump voters do you imagine you attract with that sort of remark? Or maybe you are not here to attract new MAGA converts, but just to insult libs by implying Biden is a pedo and sleeps with his own daughter, when it is actually Trump who is constantly revealing those impulses (without any help from diary forgers).

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    10. Anonymouse 8:19pm, it’s always so dire for anonymices. No one knows the trouble you’ve seen.

      It’s interesting that the only people who seem to bother you are those who don’t agree with your take on this blog. Our language is crude and bad. Not “Hillary’s”. We’re the usurpers of a blog, not the people casting aspersions on it 24/7.

      There’s been a thousand quips here about Trump lusting for his daughter. That never turned a hair on your head. I ignore it because it’s the routine hack stuff. However, imagine if Ivana had verified what Ashley Biden verified as fact. Look it up on Snopes. Would it be all quiet on the Western Front here or in the media?

      You’re a militant. Hate is what you do.


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    11. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ashley-biden-leaked-diary-accusation/

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  6. Digby is claiming that the Republicans are vowing to pass no legislation whatsoever as retaliation against Trump's guilty conviction. Is that legal? Isn't that a violation of the oath of office they all took?

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    1. Actually that would be good. Biden would have no choice but to suspend the constitution and rule by decree.

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    2. It is what they are doing in both the House and Senate now.

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    3. Yesterday the republican ghouls in the House decided to have some fun by putting retired Dr. Fauci on the rack for a few hours. What the fuck else can they do, they certainly are incapable of actually governing.

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  7. Trump's contempt for Republican voters is something our media should emulate.

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  8. "(In our view, the prosecutor's decision to bring this case aims to discourage the wrong kind of undesirable conduct.)"

    Are there kinds of undesirable conduct that shouldn't be discouraged? What makes Trump's criminal acts worthy of overlooking in the fight against undesirable conduct being waged by our nation's prosecutors? Is Somerby really arguing that Trump's power, his wealth, his ability to sway a large crowd of MAGAts, or his mental illness should exempt him from prosecution for crimes that lesser people are charged, convicted and sentenced for?

    This makes no sense to me in any way other than a statement of support for Trump and an expression of loyalty to MAGA, not Biden and certainly not Democrats.

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  9. Asylum is in our Constitution and our immigration laws. Seeking asylum is not illegal.

    In many places, our border is an imaginary line drawn on a map, not a physical barrier that can be opened or closed at will. Each year there are millions of crossings for tourism and commerce. Some people live on one side and work on the other. The Canadian border is longer than the Southern border. In that context, the number of so-called illegal crossings is very small.

    It is the hysterical fear of machete wielding brown people bent on rape and murder, recently released from insane asylums or prisons, a creation of Trump's imagination, that has idiots like Somerby worked up. As they say in Dune, "fear is the mind killer." It has clearly assassinated Somerby's last shred of rationality.

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    1. Where in the constitution did you find asylum?

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    2. It's right next to the part about the border.

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    3. She said it's in their constitution.

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    4. It is covered by the due process clause and the right of the government to make laws to determine who may become a citizen.

      https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2019/may-2019/aba-legal-fact-check--an-exploration-of-asylum-legalities-amid-c/

      https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/five-things-to-know-about-the-right-to-seek-asylum

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  10. I wonder if it is actually legal to take campaign donations from the public to pay your various and sundry lawyers handling your myriad criminal indictments ?

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    1. Trump has been doing that forever.

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    2. Yes, I know, but with Trump it doesn't necessarily follow that it is actually legal. Of course, he is bullet proof since the FEC would never take up the investigation.

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    3. "Commission regulations provide a test, called the "irrespective test," to differentiate legitimate campaign and officeholder expenses from personal expenses. Under the "irrespective test," personal use is any use of funds in a campaign account of a candidate (or former candidate) to fulfill a commitment, obligation or expense of any person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s campaign or responsibilities as a federal officeholder.

      More simply, if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.

      Conversely, any expense that results from campaign or officeholder activity falls outside the personal use ban."

      https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/making-disbursements/personal-use/#:~:text=In%20specific%20situations%20the%20Commission,activity%20of%20a%20business%20owned

      So this means that if Trump did something illegal in the course of his campaign or while holding office, he could use campaign funds for up to 50% of legal fees because the expenses wouldn't exist if he hadn't run for and been elected to office.

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    4. So you would have to argue that because Trump is a criminal by nature and preceding his run for office, his criminal defense expenses would be personal use, not something related to his seeking office. His business and defamation lawsuits make it easier to claim.

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    5. The legitimacy of payments for sex with pornstars shall not be questioned. Think about it. Isn’t that the kind of man you want as President? A pornstarfucker. The ideal leader.

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    6. But he says he didn't fuck her.

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    7. He never said it under oath, 11:43.

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    8. A pornstarfucker who denies it. Perfect squared.

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    9. Except he bragged about it to other golfers at the tournament, the next day.

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    10. It is pretty clear that Trump suffers from Small Penis Syndrome; that Stormy confirmed what was already obvious from Trump's behavior, that he does indeed have a puny penis, gives even more credence to her account.

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    11. A pornstarfucker who brags about it, then denies it. God’s chosen leader for America.

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    12. In reality, God chose someone with a bigger penis: Biden.

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    13. Anonymouse 2:18pm, you could try to verify that by asking Ashley Biden.

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    14. Ugly, Cecelia.

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  11. Paranoia, such as a belief that people or the system is out to get you, is a symptom of dementia.

    I have been struck by the number of people who are now saying that Trump looks physically unhealthy these days. Such reports have been all over the media recently.

    Biden looks the same -- he hasn't gotten any younger but he is actively doing his job and making public appearances.

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  12. Biden can't win for trying. First Somerby was complaining that Biden wasn't doing enough about the border -- that Republicans were right to make the border a huge issue. The Republicans are talking about impeaching Biden for the so-called border crisis. Now, when he is doing something, Biden is being criticized by Somerby for failing to explain clearly what he is doing. So, damned if you do and damned if you don't, in Somerby's world.

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    1. Furthermore, Republicans complained that Biden was doing too much on the border issue in his first 100 days, which Somerby conveniently ignores.

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  13. I've been praising Trump's persuasive skills. Now it's Biden's turn to be praised.

    Tying the closing of the border to 2500 illegal crossings a day is a master stroke. It gives an apparent structure to a arbitrary decision. It makes Biden sound thoughtful, because he's following a structured approach. It changes the discussion to the number of daily crossings, instead of the many millions of illegal immigrants Biden has welcomed in. It excuses Biden's failure to act until now, because the number hadn't reached the 2500 standard.

    Brilliant move.

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    1. I suppose you would favor an all-or-nothing policy, such as letting in no one, not even those entitled to apply for asylum based on our Constitution and laws? Zero is an easy number and so is infinity. In between any number chosen can be called arbitrary by someone like you.

      I doubt there is no justification for the selected figure. Just because you don't know what it is, doesn't mean it was pulled out of a hat without consideration of conditions at the border or the needs of our country.

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    2. So endorse Biden. You’ll be the kingmaker, David.

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    3. " Just because you don't know what it is, doesn't mean it was pulled out of a hat"

      In a democracy you and I should know what it is. Tragically, we are losing the idea that government employees work for you and me. So much of government is done in secret or with such complexity that citizens have learned to accept being out of the loop.

      E.g., bills are routinely thousands of pages long. Nobody has time to read the whole thing. And, routinely we're not told the details of a bill until after it's enacted. Recall Nancy Pelosi's famous quote about Obamacare, "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

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    4. 100% of people who do their own research, believe black people should be paid reparations for slavery.

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    5. Yes, by the slaveholders' party.

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    6. You're such an asshole, David. You know what Nancy Pelosi said has been mischaracterized and misrepresented, but you just fucking come here to insert the little razor blade in you passive aggressive trolling comment.

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    7. I don't think any of what David has said about how government works is true. There are public comment periods and webpages where you can find out details. A quip by Nancy Pelosi shouldn't be taken as a serious statement about how govt works.

      Trump never reads anything and yet you support him. Shouldn't we have a president capable of reading those bills and understanding the details?

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    8. Yes @12:22, we should have a President capable of reading those bills and understanding the details. Who do you suggest?

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    9. Biden, because experience contributes to understanding, and because he has demonstrated how well he can govern, especially under adversity.

      The next president will have to deal with the storms and natural disasters arising from global warming, and the political upheavals worldwide as other nations adjust to crop loss, lack of water and similar problems. That means we need someone flexible and capable, and Biden is both.

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    10. @12:20 - Yes people including Snopes claim that it's mischaracterized. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/

      But, Snopes defense of Pelosi is baloney. Snopes includes Pelosi's excuse for keeping the details form the public. She said only after the bill's passage should the details be made public because that would be "away from the fog of the controversy."

      That's not a valid excuse. After the bill is passed it's too late for public comments to affect the final law. In a democracy we citizen should be able to impact legislation, especially if it's controversial.

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    11. "fog of controversy" is a polite way of saying that conservatives lie about the contents of the bill

      The point of electing representatives to congress is that you trust them to read bills and hammer out details. If you don't trust them, don't vote for them. Vote for someone you trust.

      There are public comment periods concerning the implementation of legislation. There are often public hearings before bills are written too. Your idea that the public should do the work of legislators is unworkable, in my opinion.

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    12. Yes, David, you really are an asshole. What else did Snopes say?

      Most important, the contents of the Affordable Care Act had been publicly available and publicly debated for months when Pelosi made her remarks in March 2010. The bill, in its original form, was passed by the House of Representatives in October 2009, and in the Senate that December. Although the bill was unusually long (the act runs to 906 pages in the legislative record, with many more pages of regulations) its contents had been subjected to intensive debate and scrutiny in both houses of Congress.

      You just have your panties in a wad because Biden is trying to address the immigration issue and you don't want that to happen.

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    13. "fog of controversy" is a polite way of saying that conservatives lie about the contents of the bill

      Exactly. Any time dems try to put through a bill to help people, republicans will bury it in an avalanche of horseshit that forces dems to try to rebut and debunk the bullshit that repubs are spreading around. It gets to the point where the repubs are manufacturing the bullshit faster than the dems can ever address it.

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    14. Lobbyists write laws and pay politicians to vote for them. The public wouldn't know anything about these laws before or after.

      But at some point they'll be informed that the company they're working for is laying off 500 employees. Or they'll see big mac price doubling within a few months.

      And so it goes.

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    15. DIC's stance on how democracy should be administered sways with whatever promotes his right wing agenda of an emotionally comforting sense of dominance; there is no coherence or integrity behind DIC's stances, therefore his comments are irrelevant, and should be ignored.

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  14. "So begins the Times report about President Biden's plan. In all candor, we have to admit that we, perhaps like most Times subscribers, don't understand what that passage says."

    Later in the excerpt, it says:

    "They [senior aides] asked for anonymity because the executive order has not been officially announced."

    The report says that senior aides gave a heads up to some members of congress about a new policy that has not yet been finalized or officially announced. Presumably there are details still being worked out, but Biden's people wanted to let congress know what was going on.

    Why on Earth should Somerby be able to understand all of the details of a plan that is still in the works, not finalized and not announced to the public? Because the NY Times is chasing a rumor? Because someone in Congress leaked about the plan?

    Is it fair for Somerby to expect perfect comprehension of rumors picked up by the press despite no official announcement?

    This is the height of silliness and it shows how far Somerby will go to say something bad about Biden. But Somerby then extends his incomprehension to criticize all of humanity, saying we don't know how to talk about things so that he personally can "get" all the details of a plan still in the works and not yet made public.

    I don't know about you, but this doesn't seem very reasonable to me. It looks like Somerby playing gotcha again, to smear someone he dislikes (Biden) with a trivial complaint. And make it seem ever so important because it is about asylum and those nasty immigrants with their machetes. Meanwhile Trump has been blathering again and Somerby has no time to notice his degeneration and Fox's covering up for him with editing, because it is so much more important to jump the gun and knock Biden's new plan for securing the border.

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  15. “our tribe's thought leaders have been wrong in virtually all such past assessments concerning Candidate Trump”

    There was the minor matter of Biden beating Trump to win the presidency.

    But do go on…

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  16. “the catastrophe of incomprehension”

    Somerby loves him some melodrama.

    The story came out before the executive order was issued, so details are sketchy.

    It does say “The executive action is likely to mirror a measure in a failed bipartisan bill this year.”

    There have been endless stories about that bill and about immigration in general at the New York Times, so you don’t have to rely solely on this one speculative report, you know.

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  17. "AFTERMATHS: What might the fallout turn out to be...
    TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2024

    ...from all those guilty verdicts? We awoke today to a Brave New World—perhaps to a type of New Morning.

    Complaining that bad things will happen because Trump was convicted is like threatening people, "If you do this to Trump, you'll be sorry."

    Trump is a person and he has now been shown to be less than untouchable. It will be good for Trump's delusional followers to see his vulnerability.

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  18. Polls after the conviction do indicate that the conviction has been a net negative for Trump.

    Trump is rapidly deteriorating, he may cancel the June debate, he may not make it to the election due to faltering health, both physical and mental.

    Tom Cotton may be the VP pick, and may have to step in to replace Trump in the campaign. This is good news for Dems, Cotton is both uninspiring and poor at interviews and debates, giving a disastrous interview recently where his nonsense was easily debunked in real time by the cable news host.

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    1. Good point. It's unfortunate that Tom Cotton is a weaker candidate than Trump, for the reason's laid out by @20:22. Because, Cotton, with his Harvard College and Harvard Law School degrees, is a lot better qualified than Trump to perform the duties of President.

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    2. I look for more than just degrees from elite schools. Somerby has those and I wouldn't vote for him for any office.

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    3. Swalwell said that Trump's felony convictions would prevent him from getting a security clearance. How do you seriously suggest that a guy who is ineligible to get a security clearance be elected president?

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    4. I recall Abraham Lincoln, elite graduate of rural log cabins and no formal education. What an ignoramus.

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    5. How do you vote for a guy who is hiding boxes of classified documents from the government and then lying to the FBI and ordering his pool boy to hide the boxes also? How the fuck does that make sense?

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    6. "If ever there was a time when we needed a serious, mature President of the United States, with a depth of knowledge and a foundation of personal character — a grownup in the White House — this is that time. But seldom a week goes by without Donald Trump demonstrating, yet again, that he is painfully lacking in all these prerequisites.

      Instead of offering coherent plans for dealing with the nation’s problems, Trump skips that and boasts of the great things he will achieve. Those who dare to question are answered with cheap putdowns, often at a gutter level.

      There are signs that some people are belatedly waking up to the dangers that Donald Trump represents."

      -Thomas Sowell

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    7. Aw, @Anon 1:46! That's just cruel! You're liable to put poor DiC into a depressed funk with that!

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    8. If Trump had no past, it might be reasonable to predict his behavior as President based on his style of making rambling speeches. But, as President for 4 years, Trump did offer coherent, sensible plans for dealing with the nation's problems. Not just offer plans. He made considerable progress in some important areas.

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    9. DiC: "Not just offer plans. He made considerable progress in some important areas."

      Please continue. Your hero Sowell says Trump is dangerous.

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    10. I didn't find the source of the Sowell quote via a search engine. Can you please provide a link Anon 1:46? thanks

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    11. It's easy, DiC. Highlight a chunk of the quote. I used the entire first sentence. Right click on the highligted text and choose "Search Google."

      And there it is.

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    12. Thanks QiB. That quote comes from 2016, As I said, If Trump had no past, it might be reasonable to predict his behavior as President based on his style of making rambling speeches. But, as President for 4 years, Trump did offer coherent, sensible plans. Sowell now endorses Trump

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    13. No Republican voter cares about Trump's history of:
      Stiffing his contractors.
      Filing many, many bankruptcies.
      Sexual predation.
      His theft from charities.
      Running a scam university.

      They care that he gives them the bigotry they crave.
      That's all he''s ever been about to them.

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    14. You're half right, @5:01. Due to the polarization, all each side cares about is that a candidate or appointee is on his/her side. Personal scandals, integrity, and competence go out the window. As a result, the government is filled with dishonest incompetents.

      That's why so many government projects are f*cked up. E.g., $7.5 billion was allocated to build charging stations. Only eight (8) were built.

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    15. Over $645 million in grants have been awarded to build charging stations, but that just happened in Jan-Feb and it takes time to actually build them. Right wingers just love these misleading stories.

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    16. @8;15 This article says the bill was enacted in 2021 -- around 2 1/2 years ago. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996

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    17. You're such a predictable little shit troll, David.

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    18. Charging stations are polarized.

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  19. Quaker in a BasementJune 4, 2024 at 2:29 PM

    Regarding the border, there are two important classifications of people entering the country. There are those who enter at an official port of entry and those who are encountered crossing between ports of entry.

    If my own understanding of the executive order is correct, it applies only to those encountered between ports of entry. People who are caught crossing this way may, according to US law, make a claim for asylum if they have a fear of persecution in their home country or have a reasonable fear for their personal safety.

    The border patrol must make a determination whether people claiming asylum present a plausible claim. If they do, then they are entitled to have their case heard; if not, they may be removed from the US immediately.

    With me so far? If this is too hard to understand, then you should probably study up before you even try to join the debate.

    When crossings between ports of entry hit a threshhold, then the Biden order will reject all asylum claims from people making illegal crossings. Does that mean he will "seal the border"? Well, not literally! The border is not a continuous iron door that can be closed and bolted. Even when no asylum claims are accepted, folks will still try to sneak across.

    Asylum applications will remain closed until the number of crossings declines sufficiently.

    Will this policy work? Is it legal? I don't know. But if you don't know the difference between a border encounter and an asylum claim, you're not prepared to join the conversation.

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    1. Here's today's lead story from the WaPo:

      "People with knowledge of the plans said they expected the cap to be set at a daily average of 2,500 illegal crossings. Standard asylum processing would resume when the number drops below 1,500 crossings, an official said."

      Crossings and asylum claims are different things.

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