MONDAY, MARCH 24, 2025
Also, what Charlie Hurt said: All last week, we said this about the "deportation" of the "alleged gang members" to the Contral American gulag:
The key word there was "alleged."
Were the alleged gang members actual gang members? That seems like an obvious question—but then again, so what?
According to Karoline Leavitt, the people in question were murderers, rapists, foreign terrorists and they were also monsters. But did they all fit some sch description? Could some mistakes have been made?
The Trump administration still hasn't even released the names of the people in question! Instead, we've been told to play by this ancient rule:
Trust us, the Voices said.
Today, Judge Boasberg has apparently come to a different conclusion. He isn't willing to trust the Voices. He says that people being frogmarched away should have a right to due process:
Judge Maintains Block on Deportations of Venezuelans Under Wartime Law
A federal judge on Monday kept in place his ruling barring the Trump administration from using a powerful wartime statute to summarily deport a group of Venezuelan immigrants whom officials have accused of being members of a violent street gang.
In a 37-page order, the judge, James E. Boasberg, said the order should remain in place so that the Venezuelan immigrants could have the opportunity to challenge accusations that they belong to the gang, Tren de Aragua, before the Trump administration can fly them out of the country under the wartime law known as the Alien Enemies Act.
The Alien Enemies Act, Judge Boasberg wrote, “arguably envisions that those caught up in its web must be given the opportunity to seek such review.”
Judge Boasberg, who serves as the chief judge of the Federal District Court in Washington, issued an initial order on March 15 temporarily barring the administration from using the act to deport scores of Venezuelans to a prison in El Salvador with little or no due process.
Principal headline included, that's how the report begins. According to the federal judge, just because the emperor says it, that doesn't make it so!
Saying it doesn't make it so! According to Judge Boasberg, the people who were frog-marched to a brutal gulag should have had the right to make their case. They should have been afforded some version of due process.
People facing a brutal punishment deserve a right to due process? On Sunday, this had been the pre-reaction of our official "border czar:"
Homan Skirts Question on ‘Due Process’ for Deported Migrants in Tense Exchange
[...]
[Jonathan Karl] explained that lawyers for some of those deported had spoken with ABC News and argued that their clients deny being members of a gang. [Karl] questioned whether those labeled members of the MS-13 or Tren de Aragua (TdA) gangs had been given any chance to challenge their designation.
“Do they get a chance to prove that before you take them out of the country and put them into a notorious prison in a country that they’re not even from? I mean, do they have any due process at all?” Karl asked.
In reply, Homan didn’t offer any clarity on whether deportees had “due process” but countered Karl with his own question: “Due process? Where was Laken Riley’s due process?”
Can you spot the logic there? Laken Rily was viciously murdered. For that reason, hundreds of people who had nothing to do with that heinous crime should be frog-marched away without any chance to challenge the claims being made against them.
(Remember: These people weren't being "deported" in any conventional sense. They were being shipped directly into a sprawling gulag, quite possibly never to return.)
Homan is plainly full of feeling about the evils of violent crime. He's full of feeling to the point where his moral judgment, and his power of logic, may perhaps be severely impaired.
Meanwhile, we were stuck by something we saw on yesterday morning's Fox & Friends Weekend. Apparently reading from prompter, co-host Charlie Hurt teased an upcoming segment.
Below, we highlight another key word. To our substantial surprise, this is what he said:
HURT (3/23/25): Nearly four hundred suspected illegal gang members arrested in just one hundred days! A former ICE director tells us what this means for national security.
That's next.
The key word there is "suspected." Does that include the several hundred "monsters" who have been shipped off to El Salvador without a hint of due process—without their names even being released?
After a commercial break, the former ICE director discussed the use of the Alien Enemies Act. It was a great tool for law enforcement, he said. It was a great way to get rid of "all these foreign terrorists."
He didn't say the word "suspected." He didn't say "alleged."
Oops! Some producer had inserted an unwanted word into Charlie Hurt's text. Charlie went right ahead and read it, going off message as he did.
Charlie just went ahead and read it! As the morning proceeded, the word "suspected" was disappeared. It was never heard from again.
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact" is a phrase most often attributed to Abraham Lincoln. The phrase expresses the belief that constitutional restrictions on governmental power must be balanced against the need for survival of the state and its people. The situation of Tren de Agua requires a difficult balance.
ReplyDeleteIn an ideal world each accused Tren de Agua would be given an individual trial with a requirement of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the full right to appeal any decision to higher courts. That's what Judge Boasberg wants. But, in the actual world that approach would use enormous amounts of time and resources for each gang member.
It could only be used for a small number of accused Tren de Agua members. In then real world that approach would have the effect of allowing most Tren de Agua gang members to go free in this country and continuing to commit horrendous crimes.
As a nation, we should ignore any of our firmly held beliefs, if they cost time and money.
DeleteI am not a crank.
This thorny problem wouldn't exist if we hadn't allowed so many Tren de Agua members to live in our country. The President's strict border control will help this sort of problem from getting worse.
DeleteYou are really exceeding my negative expectations of you David. Tren de Agua is a threat to the "survival of the state and its people?" Hyperbolic much??? What the hell are you smoking, and can you spare some? I would like to ingest something to make the pain of reading your idiotic statements more palpable. Holy crap I take it back. Tren de Agua are deploying next door as I speak!!! Oh wait, they are the landscapers, never mind.
DeleteAre we are fucking war with Venezuela, Dickhead in Cal? That's what orange chickenshit told the country, you fucking fascist freak. What a surprise you have no problem violating our constitution.
DeleteIt’s Tren de Aragua.
DeleteIt's not clear what the Constitution says about due process for illegal immigrants. @6:03 ignores this difficult question and just assumes that illegal immigrants have the same civil liberties as American citizens.
DeleteYou got some fucking balls, David. You make a living ignoring shit you can't acknowledge here every damn day.
DeleteIs the United States of America currently at war with the country of Venezuela, you fucking fascist freak?
"in the actual world that approach would use enormous amounts of time and resources for each gang member."
DeleteYes, and we must conserve those resources to go after law firms Trump doesn't like.
It's not clear what the Constitution says about due process for illegal immigrants. @6:03 ignores this difficult question and just assumes that illegal immigrants have the same civil liberties as American citizens.
DeleteThe illegal immigrant who killed Laken Riley was tried and convicted in the US court. Legal or illegal, if the crime is committed on the US soil, we have jurisdiction. The trial then follows the same procedure as any other trial. It's not that confusing. The exception, of course, is if the accused has diplomatic immunity, at which point he is either shipped off to the country of origin or the country that they represent is asked to waive the immunity.
The thing to keep in mind is that under the US constitution and its bill of rights there's no distinction between legal residents and "illegal" residents. This is for the obvious reason, which David can't discern. The obvious reason: there was no such distinction at the time the constitution was drafted. In fact, up until Dredd Scott decision, "citizenship" was relegated to the states.
DeleteLook at these Democrats weeping for the exile of murderous raping gangbangers.
Delete8:58,
DeleteIf you think Republican voters, who elected a rapist to be the President of the United States of America, are going to let you disparage rape, you have another thing, coming Mister.
The man who killed Laken Riley was a legal immigrant awaiting a decision on his asylum petition, legally admitted to the US and allowed to work here under a program for Venezuelans instituted by Donald Trump during his first term.
DeleteDavid, the name is Tren de Aragua not Tren de Agua. If you care about this issue so damned much, why can't you get the name of the gang right?
DeleteIf there aren't enough judges, then Trump should appoint more and fund his deportation efforts properly. It is unacceptable to trample the rights of all citizens simply because Trump is a cheap bastard and will not spend the money it takes to protect the rights of people under our Constitution. It has to be far cheaper than using govt jets to visit Mar a Lago with his entourage to play golf every weekend.
DeleteI know that David and some others are unable to see the forest for the trees. David muses "thoughtfully" about what rights the "illegals" have, particularly when they are members of a "murderous gang". It's kind of funny, because a few short days David was unaware of the mortal danger that he was facing, and now he's cowering under the bed, afraid to go outside. However, this was nothing short of kidnapping of non-US citizens. They were kidnapped from the US soil by US government and sent to a hellhole prison in a country that lays no claim to them. We don't know anything about these people, other what the "deep state" has told us. Can we believe these claims? About as much as we can believe that the Haitians in Springfield are eating their neighbor's pets.
Delete
DeleteYou're sick, Ilya. TDS is killing you.
Gangbanger Derangement Syndrome is real, unlike the Republican voter who isn't a bigot.
DeleteHopefully, someone in the Trump Administration will accidentally text the proof of these alleged gang members crimes to a member of the media, so we can get to the bottom of it.
ReplyDeleteThe bastard gangbangers were eating all of the kitties, just like a no good legal Haitian.
DeleteThere are just testing waters here: can we kidnap people and send them to some hellhole outside the US? Then the Trump administration will extend this to US citizens.
DeleteThe Trump administration has not been providing requested info to the court either.
DeleteAnd the court does nothing but huff and puff and give them more time to further thumb their noses at the court. I think in the last hearing one of the government "lawyers" mooned the judge in answer to one of the judge's questions.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThere's no such thing as a gang. There are people who commit crimes. We don't know whether the people who were kidnapped and taken to a prison in El Salvador had committed any crimes. If they had committed a crime on the US soil, then they should be subject to the US jurisdiction and tried in the US court. However, simply labeling people as gang members and sending them to a third country to be incarcerated is so much outside any law that it's impossible to make any sense of it.
ReplyDeleteWho will think of the gangbangers and their friends?
Delete8:58,
DeleteThose suffering from Gangbanger Derangement Syndrome (GDS), of course.
Anon@8:59 -- I know that this is beyond your capacity to understand, but you don't know anything about the people who were sent to that prison.
DeleteFrom Digby:
ReplyDelete"The Post reports today that the IRS’ internal projections estimate that the DOGE-driven disruptions to the IRS since the inauguration are on track to have reduced tax receipts by more than $500 billion by April 15th. This, to be clear, is not a final tally. It’s not April 15th yet. It’s a projection based on historical data, the number of people who’ve filed, paid owed amounts of tax, etc.
It’s worth taking a moment to put this number into some context in case half a trillion dollars doesn’t do it for you. Non-defense discretionary spending is the cost to fund the U.S. government once you take out mandatory spending (mostly Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid) and the cost of the U.S. military. For 2023 that number was $917 billion. So that’s most of the stuff we think of as the government, apart from those payment programs and the military. In other words, in about eight weeks DOGE managed to lose the U.S. government — more or less light on fire — more than half of what goes to all non-defense discretionary spending."
Wasting over half the discretionary spending that President Musk says he is saving. If DOGGIE did not exist, life would be the same and the deficit would not be exploded. Damn this stupidity pisses me off. More tax cuts for the very wealthy should solve this!!!
Notice how "could" morphs in to "will". The article says
ReplyDelete"The IRS is bracing for a $500 billion drop in revenue as an increasing number of taxpayers could skip submitting their filings."
Digby says, "It’s a projection based on historical data." That's only partially true. The amount of tax loss is based on historical data, assuming a certain drop in tax filings. But, the size of projected drop in tax filings is merely based on "an uptick of online chatter from individuals." That's no basis at all. Get back to me when there's a drop in actual taxpayer filings.
one thing we know for sure, it's definitely going in the wrong direction, Dickhead.
DeleteDavid in Cal,
DeleteI look forward to getting back to you, so you can ignore me, and post something else stupid that you hope distracts TDH readers from the fact that you are a gigantic bigot.
Until then, die in a fire.
@9:19 Start using a nym and I'll pay more attention to you.
DeleteWith pleasure.
Delete
DeleteThe pencil-pushers kicked out by DOGE (thank God for it!)) of their cozy government jobs will have to get jobs in the private sector, cleaning toilets probably. Which means that they will now pay the social security tax, thus strengthening the program.
If you're a Democrat, you must love it. That's, basically, what your life is all about; suffering mindless pencil-pushing tor 40 years, and then Paradise: social security!
8:09,
DeleteIt's the best thing to happen, since Right-wing calls to have corrupt, wasteful government employees arrest those destroying Teslas, and try them in corrupt, wasteful government courthouses.
I'm sure some Kindergartner is shaking in their shoes over that empty threat.
Who let the Soros-bot at 8:09 post at TDH?
DeleteGet back to me when there's a drop in actual taxpayer filings.
DeleteWhy, so you can ignore it like you usually do?
Is the United States of America currently at war with the country of Venezuela, you fucking fascist freak?
The presidential order authorizing the removal of the alleged gang members was signed in private--unlike most of Trump's other orders. Within just a few hours, the planes were loaded and ready for takeoff. A federal judge intervened, ordering the planes to return. The Trump administration flouted the order. Now Trump has told reporters that
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is using unsecure channels to discuss operational details of military operations--and blunderingly including a journalist in the chat. And once again, Trump is giving his best Sgt. Shulz impression: "I see nothing!" If the Biden administration had been this disordered, Republicans would be howling. But today, House Speaker Johnson assres us there's nothing to see.
If
end of first paragraph: he did't sign the order--"other people" handled that!
DeleteI agree with you that the Trump Administration deserves severe criticism for their mishandling of military plans. But, the Biden Administration was hardly a paragon. Their mishandling of the Afghanistan was enormously costly as was the floating dock that was supposed to bring supplies to the Palestinians.
DeleteDavid, the federal law offered as justification for removing alleged gang members requires several things including a presidential declaration. Trump says he didn't sign one, even as there is such a declaration bearing Trump's signature in the federal record.
DeleteIt was a popular past time during Biden's term to speculate about who was "really" running things. Now we have presidential orders the current president says he didn't sign.
But by all means let's not give it a thought.
I am sure there will be hell to pay when the details of this breach are communicated to the guy who hid highly classified documents from the FBI in the bathroom of a Florida country club.
DeleteHegseth - Russia, Russia, Russia - he is too much. Boy need help, that or another stiff one. Wheee-haaawwww
Deletehttps://youtu.be/USV-KZLoAb0
"Their mishandling of Afghanistan..." The withdrawal engineered by Trump in a deal with the Taliban that excluded the officials of the Afghan government and included the release of 5,000 Taliban from Afghan prisons? Surely you are not talking about that mishandling. How about if the orange Jesus had had the balls to arrange the transfer of power during his term instead of offloading it to the following administration? Then, if things didn't go well, likely in part due to the prior release of 5,000 Taliban, including terrorists, Trump could have owned it like a leader with a backbone.
DeletePete Nevertheless on the tarmac looks like a guy who would have been cut off from the bar by mid flight if he had flown commercial.
DeletePete Hegseth
DeleteDickhead says, I agree with you that the Trump Administration deserves severe criticism for their mishandling of military plans.
DeleteThen he twists himself into a pretzel to try and fail to do a whataboutism.
One thing we should be thankful for, at least racist Dickhead in Cal can't blame it the administration's DEI policy resulting in a bunch of rank amateurs in charge of our military now.
...the Trump Administration deserves severe criticism for their mishandling of military plans....
DeleteIt is almost darkly amusing that the gang that can't shoot straight committed this horrendous security breach on the very day that King Orange Chickenshit very publicly vindictively ordered security clearances of former President Biden and VP Harris in addition to many others be revoked.
I wonder if Dickhead in Cal will appreciate the humor in that?
the Trump Administration: Their arrogance is exceeded only by their incompetence.
Delete
DeleteWatching soros-bots bitch and moan is nice. The next four years promise to be glorious.
David, read the fifth amendment. It doesn’t say “citizen” — it says “person”.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
You have a strong argument, @8:48. I think your view will prevail.
DeleteI think many Americans will have a mixed view of this result. Civil liberties are important, but protecting the well-being of Americans is also important. Keeping these gangs here will mean more rapes, murders and other crimes against Americans IMO
No one is in favor of gangs committing illegal acts. That is why we have law enforcement.
Delete"...protecting the well-being of Americans is also important."
DeleteWho do you think you're fooling?
10:32: The escape clause for you is couched in what you think will be the reaction of many Americans. FYI: due process has nothing to do with your opinion, nor anyone else's. If your "many Americans" turned sour on a minority group, that would bolster an argument for doing so, by your logic. Trump and his lackeys have no intention of following the law here. I am far more comfortable with the lawlessness of some Venezuelan gang members than I am with the lawlessness of our government to arbitrarily ship off people to a hell hole without due process. To suggest that this is acceptable is anti - American at its core.
DeleteDavid in Cal,
DeleteThe ones who don't like it, can leave the Democratic Party, like they did after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Our Attorney General today accused a member of Congress of "fomenting insurrection against Tesla."
ReplyDeleteIf you don't see the problem with this, you've given in to authoritarianism.
We're gonna be seeing a lot of this out of Pam Bondi. She makes Bill Barr looking like a dyed in the wool Democrat. Pure trash.
DeleteThe good news for Democrats is that polls are showing Senate Dems are now firmly more popular than gonorrhea.
DeleteQuaker, your second sentence exhibits the same kind of coercive thinking it claims to condemn: any disagreement is proof of guilt. How did you miss that?
Delete6:21 No such coercion. No one is asking the reader to perform a task. "If you don't see what's wrong with theft, you are immoral" makes no demand on you to be moral.
Delete
Delete"any disagreement is proof of guilt" is the essence of any Soros-bot word-salad.
“If you don’t see what’s wrong with theft, you’re immoral” refers to a well-defined social norm but “fomenting insurrection against Tesla” is not a settled moral category. It’s controversial, ambiguous, and politically charged so judging people harshly for not reacting a certain way to ambiguous language is manipulative, even if technically non-coercive. If you don’t see the problem, you’ve given into authoritarianism creates a moral absolute, a black-and-white framing, which is a hallmark of authoritarianism.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:03am, that’s biscuit-eating dumb.
DeleteQiB is saying that if you don’t agree that the AG is being authoritarian then you are embracing authoritarianism.
The demand is - see this issue as I see it or I’ll label you as being on board with authoritarian thinking. Which would make you authoritarian. .
I support destroying Teslas, but that's expected, because I'm not an authoritarian.
DeleteSorry dudes but the term insurrection has a particular meaning. A violent uprising against an authority of government. You seem to have missed that. Bondi is equating Tesla with such. That is the point here. Jeez . In what world do you submit that Tesla has such a role? If you agree with Bondi on this you have agreed to an authoritarian role for Tesla by definition. She is a lawyer and has chosen that word specifically.
Delete8:39,
DeleteThese guys don't know what they are arguing. It's all emotional, like rooting for a sports team, for them. They back team fascism, and that's as far as they've thought it through.
authority or government
Delete
DeleteSo, why did you change "authority or government" in the definition to "authority of government", Soros-bot?
In any case, advocacy of mass destruction of private property certainly is a form of insurrection, in a liberal democracy.
authority on government
DeleteJasmine Crockett advocates peaceful protests against Tesla and Pam Bondi calls it an insurrection. That is biscuit dumb.
DeleteLOL. Looks like Cecelia stepped in it again!!!
DeleteNice job 8:39. Love to see it.
Authority OR government is the definition
DeleteHow is it Bondi’s take different from the FACE Act?
DeleteCecelia steps in it so frequently that she is indistinguishable from it.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:36pm, the only reason you know how often I comment is because I have a name. You don’t take shots, you only take cheap shots.
DeleteYou know who I am, crazy lady.
DeleteAnother thing as to Bondi using the term insurrection- this is being done because of a particular man in a particular department of government that has a particular objective. If people didn’t like Sec of State John Kerry and Pres. Obama’s policies and started threatening Heinz factories (Kerry’s wife’s company at one time), grocery stores and restaurants, the regular people who bought their products isn’t that different from a protest? Aren’t you trying to usurp official U.S. government policy via sabotaging the business sector and the citizenry?
DeleteAnonymouse 9:52am, without the insane cursing, I didn’t recognize you.
DeleteHow is the power of the purse a thing in Capitalist countries?
DeletePoor Elon Musk. The "genius" is just now finding out that actions have consequences.
DeleteWho knew?
“isn’t that different from a protest?”
DeleteJust because someone works for the government (or whatever Musk does) doesn’t mean that that person‘s businesses suddenly become arms of the federal government such that vandalizing one of those businesses is equivalent to insurrection against the United States. It’s a cheapening of the term “insurrection.” What happened on Jan 6 2021 was an actual insurrection, but those people were all pardoned.
Anonymouse 10:22am, they’re not targeting business owners for being business owners.That would be terrorism too, but they’re targeting a government official and anyone who buys the products produced by his family business. Why? Because they dislike the White House in power. These people aren’t carrying placards outside of Tesla dealerships. They not standing with signs in front of a Tesla in a parking lot. They’re making explicit threats against the private property of private individuals because of the policies of a particular government official. They’re saying if you support this government by currently owning and buying the products produced by the guy who heads a new agency in this administration, we’re coming after you, Mr. Dealership Owner. We’re going to damage your car, Johnny Tesla Owner.
DeleteSo these people aren’t standing with placards in front of a Tesla dealership? Who exactly did that clown run his vehicle through yesterday? People can and should peacefully boycott Tesla in the same way they would boycott a company whose ownership they have issue with, be it Tesla, Target, Walmart or whoever. It’s the United States not whatever place Pam Bondi thinks she is presiding over at the DOJ. You can get over yourself now.
DeleteMusk's emoluments clause was eaten by Haitian immigrants.
Delete...a government official ...
DeleteNo shit? Musk is a government official, Cec? What is his job title? When was he confirmed by the Senate? When will he be reporting to Congress? He certainly can't be in charge of DOGE because trump's mouthpieces told Federal Judges that some lady on vacation in Mexico was in charge of DOGE, whatever the fuck that is.
Anonymouse 11:42am, that’s exactly the distinction I made between particular types of protestors, bro.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:23pm, if Musk was an unofficial adviser to the president and people hated him because he was selected by a president they hate, hated Musk’s advice, and hate the policies implemented via that advice. It is not a stretch to use the term insurrection when they are not just targeting Musk and the president, but regular joes ANYONE…who sell his cars and/or buys them or shows any other sign of respect for him. That’s a plot. Thats terroristic. That’s not marching in the streets and emotion gets high and windows get smashed and a fire started. That’s bad enough, but its not a calculated plan to harm/damage particular politicians or agents of the government.
DeleteWhy don’t you do yourself a favor and unbunch your lingerie over this matter. Targeting Musk’s business in peaceful protest is not terrorism. Bondi, you know the chick who put her weight behind Trump’s lies about his lost election has a remarkable lack of integrity here, being the mouthpiece for the criminal that incited a riot on the capitol.
DeleteI laughed so hard over your definition ofvterrorism that I almost knocked over my Miller Lite.
DeleteBehold the Fanny-Burp!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAt the base of the monolith on the surface of the moon Phobos shall we unite within this very dimension.
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ReplyDeleteWho said this: “Everyone knows that getting rid of the deficit will require some tough decisions, and that includes cutting back on billions of dollars in programs that a lot of people care about. What should be easy is getting rid of the pointless waste and stupid spending that doesn't benefit anybody. Waste we should be getting rid of, even if we didn't have a deficit.
ReplyDeleteSure, some of these cuts aren't that big, but no amount of waste is acceptable, not when it's your money, not at a time when so many Americans are already cutting back just as families are living within their means. Government should too.
Did you know the federal government pays for a website devoted to a folk music ensemble made up of forest Rangers? They're called the Fiddle and Foresters.
I'll put their music on my iPod, but I'm not paying for their website.
There are hundreds of similar sites that we should consolidate or just get rid of. By the way, you're not only paying for websites, no one needs, you're paying for thousands of buildings all across the country. No one uses.
For the last decade, the government's owned a massive and completely empty warehouse in the middle of Brooklyn, for example. Now, the government hadn't been able to sell this building and others like it because of red tape and Washington politics that helped things up for years. But we're finally cutting through all that and plan to get rid of these buildings in the months ahead.
We need to step up our game. We need to go after every dime. We need to make government work for you.”
Hi, Dickhead. Divert, distract, deflect.
DeleteIgnore the middleman in the soiled diaper, and deal with President Putin directly.
DeleteOr remain happily inefficient. Your choice.
Who said this? Someone who is not the least bit serious about the federal deficit.
ReplyDelete