BREAKING: Ongoing discussions of Bee, Barr, Reid!

MONDAY, JUNE 4, 2018

Some questions which ought to be answered:
Over the weekend, discussion programs batted around the recent behavior of Roseanne Barr, Samantha Bee and Joy Reid.

Barr got fired by ABC for a grotesquely stupid tweet. Bee drew attention away from Barr by calling Ivanka the C-word.

Reid claimed that the FBI is exploring the ways she has been misused. It seems to us that certain questions remain unanswered about these epsiodes:

Roseanne Barr: In our view, ABC was right to unload Barr. The question we're left with is this:

Do you mainly think Barr is a racist? Or is it possible that she mainly has "mental health issues," as her ex-husband told Anderson Cooper?

Also, do you think this question matters? Why or why not?

Samantha Bee and TBS: In our view, TBS has been right to keep Bee on the job. The questions we're left with are these:

Full Frontal airs on videotape. How many of Bee's corporate bosses made the decision to drop a C-bomb on Ivanka? Did they actually think this decision made sense? The most important question is this:

Was this politically counterproductive decision reached for publicity purposes? Were Bee and/or her corporate bosses seeking a publicity boost?

Joy Reid and MSNBC: Reid authored a lot of peculiar blog posts in the not-so-distant past. She says she's gotten older and wiser. That's OK with us. In some ways, it could make Reid a more constructive analyst.

That said, questions remain unanswered. On what basis have we (apparently) been told 1) that some of those old blog posts were actually hacks, and 2) that the FBI was investigating the case?

We were told those things in the past few months. Were those claims just pure BS, or were they made on some serious basis? Also, what role did Reid's corporate bosses play in the promulgation of these claims?

These episodes remind us of the many ways we liberals insist on finding ways to lose through our tribe's cultural dumbness. They remind us of past episodes involving such luminaries as Larry David, Whoopi Goldberg and even Rachel Maddow, who only bought the TV set because she got blackout drunk.

(Her corporate bosses supported that apparently ludicrous story. Today, they support Reid's claims.)

They remind us of Michelle Wolf's recent soul-stirring comedic performance, in which she told jokes comparing Ivanka 1) to "an empty box of tampons," and 2) to a previously used diaper which is "full of shit." (Among other things, this is what a comedian does when she can't think of a joke.)

The Larry David debacle takes us all the way back to the summer of 2000. In our gross stupidity and our sense of intellectual and moral superiority, we liberals never stop letting our politically hapless celebrities find ways to help us lose.

According to our celebrities, Ivanka is a box of tampons, a loaded diaper, and of course a feckless c***. Because our group IQ is very low, this spectacularly stupid behavior apparently makes us feel good.

Question:

Do we ever get smart enough to frog-march our celebrities into the countryside, where they can 1) gain years of valuable re-education and 2) stop insisting on finding ways to elect people like Bush and help Trump stay where he is?

Details may follow in the next few days. But truly, our politically clueless, self-serving celebrities never stop their destructive behavior—and we never stop congratulating them for their contributions to the other side's narrow wins.

On the bright side, they get rich and famous in the process. Ain't life in our self-impressed liberal tribe grand?

Additional question, for extra credit only: If Bee wanted to focus on Trump's new border policy, who was she discussing Ivanka in the first place?

Granted, she's a feckless c***! But have you noticed that she has nothing to do with the policy our corporate-owned comedy star was pretending to discuss?

We need to stop applauding these people for their dimwitted games. They help the used diapers and the c***s pretty much every time.

(Rebecca Traister then helps us see how nuanced they actually are!)

37 comments:

  1. "If Bee wanted to focus on Trump's new border policy, who was she discussing Ivanka in the first place?"

    In the midst of a furor over Trump's immigration practice of separating children from parents, Ivanka tweeted a picture of herself cuddling her young son. That is why Bee focused on her at the end of her segment on Trump's immigration practices. That was clear from (1) the flow of Bee's show, and (2) the current events context in which Ivanka's tweet appeared.

    Context matters.

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  2. This is an example of Somerby snark:

    "(Rebecca Traister then helps us see how nuanced they actually are!)"

    ReplyDelete
  3. Today Somerby asserts that Bee made her appeal to Ivanka for PR purposes and to increase her own salary.

    Setting aside the implication that female comedians are not permitted to do anything to enhance their own careers, Somerby seems to believe that direct criticism of political actions by Ivanka (who is a member of the Trump administration with an actual job in the White House) and Trump helps the other side win and is not a way to achieve political change.

    Is it true that when the left protests Trump's actions, it only helps the right win and does nothing to oppose conservative policy? Is it true that public protests are ineffective and serve no purpose except to enrich liberal celebrities?

    I doubt that Somerby is right about this. First, expressing protest of government policies affects the opinions of viewers and can help broaden public support for opposition, weaken public support for Trump's policies, recruit public outrage against things like abuse of immigrants. Bee and others were using the medium to mobilize public outrage, not just attacking Ivanka.

    Second, vocal opposition can provide a check on the more extreme and outrageous actions of our president by encouraging congress to consider their own reelection prospects, to let them know the mood of the country, and to slow down our movement toward the abyss. People like Bee are our voice against being dragged down that road. She speaks for us.

    I realize she doesn't speak for Somerby. He sees her as speaking only for her own interests, more money, more PR. I find myself wondering whether he might recognize that her voice is ours if he were more of a liberal. Or maybe her voice is just a little too high pitched for his tastes.

    The rest of us considered Ivanka's tweet offensive on its face and understood why Bee was focusing on it. It exemplified the lack of empathy that characterizes conservatives and makes it possible for them to do horrible things to immigrant children while cuddling their own. They don't see immigrants as people. That was Bee's point and the rest of us didn't miss it. Why did Somerby?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think that Bob questions "vocal opposition" or "protest," but rather whether the opposition might be voiced in a manner that is more constructive and less likely to be used against the point being made.

      It's a complicated issue, because in some ways the right-wing propaganda machine will always find ways to proclaim that liberals are outrageous, even if they have to point to some dumb college student's behavior.

      Delete
    2. How does Bob want the opposition to be voiced?

      Delete
    3. Apologies - the previous question is vague and ambiguous - what is the manner of opposition to be voice in a way that is more constructive and less counterproductive?

      Delete
    4. Protesters must always be polite. Hah!

      Delete
    5. I can only answer for myself, and I'm not sure that I can do it other than by pointing out examples of things that, in my opinion, don't work. For example, I love Samantha Bee, but I don't see how it's productive (or funny) for her to refer to Ivanka Trump as a cunt.

      Another example of people with a good message that too-often shoot themselves in the foot was Black Lives Matter. The manner in which they made their point often obscured their message. Of course, the right-wing propaganda machine often willfully obscures those sorts of messages - as the Colin Kaepernick situation demonstrates.

      I'm not speaking for Bob here, but I take his point as saying that we're all in this together, and it's our job to find a way to win the war of ideas. That's what I've been told my whole life the First Amendment was about - a marketplace of ideas, in which the best ideas would prevail. We do have the best ideas, but for some reason we still find it difficult to persuade people.

      Delete
    6. We find it difficult to persuade some people and we do not persuade everyone -- neither does the right. There are still more democrats than republicans and more people lean left than right. I don't understand Somerby's constant complaint that we lose elections and that we are ineffective politically on the left.

      We won the last election. It was stolen by Comey, Russians, rigged voting in key precincts, and yielded a corrupt outcome that is invalid and will be shown to be such after due process has taken its course. Trump will be impeached and removed. With any luck, he will go to jail. He is not proof that liberals cannot win elections (what about Obama?). Hillary's three million plus popular votes (above Trump's count) say otherwise.

      We don't fight as dirty as the right does. But I don't hear Somerby arguing that WE need to be more corrupt to compete with them. I hear him saying we need to lie down and roll over. Be nicer. As if we weren't already much nicer than the right.

      So Somerby is wrong about this. These are old arguments about how forceful to be, how militant, how vocal, how loud, how impolite. The key to winning for the left is none of these things. It is to be more persistent. Because when the wheel turns, we make progress, as long as we hang in there and push our platform forward at every opportunity. The right would like us to give up. Make things easy for them.

      There have always been liberals trying to put brakes on the movement, counsel others to be calmer and quieter and work the system instead of trying to change it. I don't think they hurt anything, but I don't see them helping either. That's assuming Somerby is any kind of liberal.

      Delete
    7. Shorter Jonny Scrum-half - I dunno. I just know what I don't like.

      Delete
    8. Johnny Scrum-Half: "I'm a prissy Victorian spinster who cannot abide coarse words and agrees with Fox News that Samantha Bee should be deported back to Canada-land. But I'm a liberal, really."

      Bob Somerby seems ever more like a cranky elderly alcoholic by the way. Every horrible thing Trump does is all the fault of liberals and Democrats. keep that in mind as it gets worse.

      Delete
    9. Johnny Scrum-half says a few sensible things, quite deferentially, therefore he is the idiot of this exchange.

      "Anonymous" dementedly claims "we won the last election" and that passes for wisdom and clarity.

      This is how it has always been, I suppose, here in the comments of a blog that has always cried lonely into the void of a failing Democratic party: We don't want help, We are doing fine. That has always been and will always be the reply.

      We have no room for improvement. The suggestion is offensive! "Focus on the GOP" they always say, hypocritically maintaining their own laser-focus on blaming any liberal or lefty who isn't clapping loudly enough.

      Delete
    10. @nona: I thought TDH was a media criticism blog.

      Delete
    11. "therefore he is an idiot of this exchange."

      Bullshit!

      Jonny was asked how or what should be the preferred mode of communication and he, in honesty, could only point "out examples of things that, in my opinion, don't work."

      Anonymous, June 4, 2018 at 8:46 PM accurately summarized Jonny's response. None of the commenters following Jonny critized him personally or even indirectly.

      Do you even see the irony in your use of name-calling ("dementedly"), and multiple-strawmen ("We don't want help, [sic] We are doing fine ...has always been and will always be the reply." "We have no room for improvement." " ...blaming any any liberal or lefty who isn't clapping hard enough.") in a thread concerning communication?

      I thought not.

      Delete
  4. "Do you mainly think Barr is a racist? Or is it possible that she mainly has "mental health issues," as her ex-husband told Anderson Cooper?"

    If Somerby knew thing-one about psychology, he would understand that racism and mental illness are not either/or conditions, nor does any mental illness include racism as a symptom.

    Somerby implies that if Barr is mentally ill, that is some sort of extenuating circumstance for her racism. People who are mentally ill are still expected to conform their behavior to norms. They are not given a pass to harass and harm others.

    But labeling any deviant behavior (such as racism) as mental illness does a disservice to those who are actually mentally ill. It helps to stigmatize them by incorporating behaviors into the label that do not belong there.

    Finally, why does Somerby not advance the idea that Barr may be engaging in racist behavior for PR purposes or for financial benefit? Many people are supporting Trump for their own personal gain. Why not Barr? Her show was on the air in the first place because it exemplified Trump voters. Is it not possible she was acting out that role and took it too far? Just like Bee.

    But Somerby likes Barr. He met her once and she was nice to him. So she is earnest. Bee is the craven money-grubbing. Maybe she snubbed him once and can never be forgiven. No celebrity pardon for Bee.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Barr's ex also saids that She is most defiantly a racist, and that her racism stems from far right online chat stuff (Hi Mao!) that She has perticipated in for years. So Bob does not seem to want to give us the whole picture on this one. Hmmmmm......

    ReplyDelete
  6. To win Bob's extra credit: Trump's daughter works in the White House in a strange, ill defined capacity with all sorts of conflict of interest aspects. She has promoted herself as a Mother. Bee claims that children are being foracbly taken away from their Mothers as part of Trump's hardline policies. There is considerable reason to believe this is true. Bob Somerby does not care about these kids but can't bring himself to mention what is going on.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course not. The Trump administration might be destroying families and ripping kids from their moms while Ivanka preens with her child, but Bob Somerby has liberals to attack. So, so many liberals to attack. Because we're responsible for every crazy nasty horrible thing Trump does. Don't you understand? Liberals are responsible for everything evil in the world. Trump and his family are blameless in everything they do, forever, because sometimes we liberals were imperfect. Bob Somerby is here to put us in our place, and if Trump overturns the Constitution tomorrow, well that's our fault.

      Delete
  7. "Do we ever get smart enough to frog-march our celebrities into the countryside, where they can 1) gain years of valuable re-education and 2) stop insisting on finding ways to elect people like Bush and help Trump stay where he is?"

    "Our" celebrities, Bob? These celebrities you mention are speaking their own minds. They do not claim to speak for anyone else, least of all "us", by which I take it you mean "all liberals."

    Can Larry David not say what he wants to without being held accountable to all liberals everywhere?

    But the most insidious thing about Somerby's view is its inherent fascism: individuals must watch what they say for fear of harming some greater "collective" good (in this case liberal politics presumably) and that "liberals" should insist on adherence to some agreed-upon standards that "our celebrities" must follow.

    This kind of thought control is not only unattainable; it is downright nefarious.

    And claiming that Somerby is being "tongue-in-cheek" and is really just offering some friendly advice to help the liberal cause doesn't change the insidious nature of his "advice."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've never thought Somerby was being tongue-in-cheek when he spends every single post excoriating liberals and MSNBC and anyone but Trump and Republicans for years now. Despite his sad attempt at a jocular tone and over-abuse of exclamation marks, Somerby means it.

      He is a full-on Fox News admirer and elderly senior citizen who hates liberals and Democrats wholeheartedly. He says so every day, for years here. He loves Trump and Fox News and he hates liberals and Democrats. This could not be more clear, it's the topic of everything Somerby posts. Liberals and democrats are bad people that need to be smacked down, and how dare they oppress us with things like affordable health insurance? The gall! Bob Somerby is a complete right wing operative at this point, for years now actually. He really hates we liberals and Dems. He has no opinion on the crazed fanatics of Fox News spewing lies around the clock and having ALL the power in DC. They own the government, they run everything. BUT that won't stop Somerby from constantly kicking the hippies while they're down! No sir. Kicking liberals for their sins and crimes is Mr. Somerby's kink and fetish.

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
  9. "Do you mainly think Barr is a racist? Or is it possible that she mainly has "mental health issues," as her ex-husband told Anderson Cooper?

    Also, do you think this question matters? Why or why not?"

    "Trump, of course, is disordered, ill, deranged." - says Somerby:

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2018/05/breaking-gene-robinsons-total-tribal-war.html?m=1

    Same question:

    "Do you mainly think Trump is a racist/liar? Or is it possible that he mainly has "mental health issues," as Bob Somerby has unequivocally stated?

    Also, do you think this question matters? Why or why not?"

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  11. "In our view, ABC was right to unload Barr. "

    "In our view, TBS has been right to keep Bee on the job. "

    It would be helpful to know more precisely why Somerby agrees with the two decisions. Is it simply that a corporation gets to make its own hiring and firing decisions? Or is Somerby asserting some more fundamental agreement with the corporate rationales which led to the two opposing decisions?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jonny? Dave? deadrat?

      Delete
    2. "It would be helpful to know more precisely why Somerby agrees with the two decisions"

      Well if you could read with modest comprehension skills you would have noticed TDH explains.

      Full Frontal airs on videotape. How many of Bee's corporate bosses made the decision to drop a C-bomb on Ivanka? Did they actually think this decision made sense?

      This gives us a very large clue as to why TDH sees a difference between what Bee did and what Barr did. Since what Bee did was reviewed and approved by her superiors before broadcast, it would be kind of hypocritical to fire her over it. What Barr did was all on her very own loathsome racist self.

      Hope that helped.

      Delete
    3. Has it ever helped? Literally, ever?

      Here, on this blog, where the general tone of the commentariat is that Somerby is a closet conservative?

      After all these years, mm, is it really even still possible to believe that "comprehension" is the problem? Somerby can doubtless err, but These Folks have got a Will To Misunderstand & Misrepresent that is frankly insurmountable.

      Delete
    4. Nona,
      It would help your argument tremendously, if Bob would stop repeating Right-wing nonsense about liberals on his blog.

      Delete
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  13. I'm Jason Blark, from North USA. I got separated from my wife 2 years ago. There was no communication between us. I was advised by families and friends to let go, forget the marriage and move on with my life. I didn’t want to marry someone else because deep down, I still love my wife. I was in so much pain and confused, until I read a testimony online on how Dr Larry reunion a broken marriage with the help of his love spell powers. I kept reading so many testimonies on how he helped to stopped divorce and bring back peoples ex-lover's to them, and my faith was renewed. I have to contact Dr Larry immediately, few minutes later, he replied and instructed me on what to do, after meeting up with the necessary requirement, 2 days later after he cast the spell, communication was restored between me and my wife. He actually knees pleading me to forget and forgive him. My relationship is now balance and my wife kept loving me every single day by day. His spells worked wonders and our relationship is now stronger than before, and nothing can separate us again. I visited so many website seeking for help, it looked hopeless, until I came in contact with Dr Larry the real man, who helped me to restore my broken marriage. If you're having similar problem in your marriage, you want your husband or wife to love you again, you have someone you love and you want him or her to love you in return, you are having any challenge in your relationship. Dr Larry SPELL TEMPLE is the solution and answer to your problem, contact him today via Email.assurancesolutionhome@gmail.com or Whatsapp him now +1(424)-261-8520




    I'm Jason Blark, from North USA. I got separated from my wife 2 years ago. There was no communication between us. I was advised by families and friends to let go, forget the marriage and move on with my life. I didn’t want to marry someone else because deep down, I still love my wife. I was in so much pain and confused, until I read a testimony online on how Dr Larry reunion a broken marriage with the help of his love spell powers. I kept reading so many testimonies on how he helped to stopped divorce and bring back peoples ex-lover's to them, and my faith was renewed. I have to contact Dr Larry immediately, few minutes later, he replied and instructed me on what to do, after meeting up with the necessary requirement, 2 days later after he cast the spell, communication was restored between me and my wife. He actually knees pleading me to forget and forgive him. My relationship is now balance and my wife kept loving me every single day by day. His spells worked wonders and our relationship is now stronger than before, and nothing can separate us again. I visited so many website seeking for help, it looked hopeless, until I came in contact with Dr Larry the real man, who helped me to restore my broken marriage. If you're having similar problem in your marriage, you want your husband or wife to love you again, you have someone you love and you want him or her to love you in return, you are having any challenge in your relationship. Dr Larry SPELL TEMPLE is the solution and answer to your problem, contact him today via Email.assurancesolutionhome@gmail.com or Whatsapp him now +1(424)-261-8520

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  14. Hello,

    I'm Dr Ogudugu a real and genuine spell caster with years of experience in spell casting and an expert in all spells, i specialize exclusively in LOVE SPELL/GET YOUR EX LOVER BACK, FRUIT OF THE WOMB SPELL, HIV CURE SPELL, BECOMING A MERMAID SPELL, BECOMING A VAMPIRE SPELL, SAVE CHILD BIRTH SPELL. If you have any problem and you need a real and genuine spell caster to solve your problems, contact me now through my personal Email Address...Note-you can also Call and WhatsApp.

    Contact me -
    Email: greatogudugu@gmail.com
    Phone No: +2348139793075
    WhatsApp No: +2348139793075

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  15. OMG!!! I am so proud and happy to be out here sharing your work Dr. Sam. I just can't believe this now my ex Husband is really back to me on his knees presenting a ruby rose to beg me to take him back and he was feeling regretful and sorry for leaving me and for causing me pains after the divorce which occurred last year. And this whole miracle happened after I ordered an urgent 24hours Dr. Sam powerful spell which he cast on me and my husband. Sir, I am the happiest woman today in this whole wide world. Dr. Sam, you really did it..Yes.. Its a miracle and everlasting pleasure and cheerfulness for me and my family today.. I am so happy now and i don't know how much to convey my thankfulness and appreciation to you sir. And to the whole world, contact him if you need urgent help now because it's guaranteed that he will help you. Email him (Supremespellcast@gmail.com Or Supremespellcast@yahoo.com) His web page https://supremespellcast.blogspot.com or ((WhatsApp him +2347087462033))






    OMG!!! I am so proud and happy to be out here sharing your work Dr. Sam. I just can't believe this now my ex Husband is really back to me on his knees presenting a ruby rose to beg me to take him back and he was feeling regretful and sorry for leaving me and for causing me pains after the divorce which occurred last year. And this whole miracle happened after I ordered an urgent 24hours Dr. Sam powerful spell which he cast on me and my husband. Sir, I am the happiest woman today in this whole wide world. Dr. Sam, you really did it..Yes.. Its a miracle and everlasting pleasure and cheerfulness for me and my family today.. I am so happy now and i don't know how much to convey my thankfulness and appreciation to you sir. And to the whole world, contact him if you need urgent help now because it's guaranteed that he will help you. Email him (Supremespellcast@gmail.com Or Supremespellcast@yahoo.com) His web page https://supremespellcast.blogspot.com or ((WhatsApp him +2347087462033))

    ReplyDelete
  16. Real Love Spell Caster To Fix Your Broken Relationship & Get Your Ex Lover Back contact zazabatemple@gmail.com or call +2348129175848 is the best spell caster online and his result is 100% guarantee.

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