WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 2024
...it was called Trump's latest LIE! A funny thing happened to America's discourse in the aftermath of the June 27 Biden-Trump ersatz "debate."
We wouldn't call what happened a "fail." We would say it was fail-indicative—a hint of a failed public discourse.
Here's what happened:
During the course of the debate, the dueling candidates agreed on a factual claim! The claim in question was made by each candidate—repeatedly so in the case of Candidate Trump.
The claim involved the tax cut which was passed by President Trump. Presented in chronological order, here's some of what was said during the ersatz debate:
BIDEN (6/27/24): Well, look, the greatest economy in the world? He’s the only one who thinks that, I think. I don’t know anybody else who thinks it was great—he had the greatest economy in the world.
And, you know, the fact of the matter is that we found ourselves in a situation where his economy—he rewarded the wealthy. He had the largest tax cut in American history, $2 trillion.
[...]
TRUMP: But he—he made a statement. The only thing he was right about is I gave you the largest tax cut in history. I also gave you the largest regulation cut in history. That’s why we had all the jobs.
[..]
BIDEN: He had the largest national debt of any president four-year period, number one. Number two, he got $2 trillion tax cut, benefited the very wealthy.
[...]
TRUMP: Nobody’s ever created an economy like us. Nobody ever cut taxes like us. He’s the only one I know. He wants to raise your taxes by four times. He wants to raise everybody’s taxes by four times. He wants the Trump tax cuts to expire so everybody, including the two of you are going to pay four to five times. Nobody ever heard of this before.
[...]
TRUMP: What we did was incredible. We rebuilt the military. We got the largest tax cut in history, the largest regulation cut in history.
The dueling candidates agreed on that one particular point! When he was president, Donald J. Trump engineered "the largest tax cut in history."
According to Candidate Biden, it was a tax cut of $2 trillion! Each of the candidates described it as the largest tax cut in history.
In a vastly jumbled debate, the hopefuls managed to agree on that one basic factual statement. They only disagreed about the effects of this largest of all tax cuts:
Candidate Biden seemed to say that the effects were very bad. Candidate Trump said the cut had produced the greatest economy in history.
As the pseudo-discussion jumped all about, little effort was made to examine the candidates dueling claims about the effects of this largest tax cut. The debate included drive-by mention of various topics, but little real discussion of any.
At any rate, the candidates agreed that President Trump's tax cut was the largest in history. We'd like to say that was all well and good.
That said, here's the problem:
On Monday morning, July 1, economic analyst Steven Rattner made one of his regular appearances on Morning Joe. As best we can tell, Rattner is thoroughly competent.
With Joe away at re-education camp, Mika brought him on:
"President Biden largely failed to fact check Trump in real time on Thursday night," she said. "Joining us now to take up that mantel is former Treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Rattner and his famous charts."
Rattner proceeded to debunk there of Candidate Trump's "lies" from the great debate.
Courtesy of MSNBC, you can see the whole segment on this videotape. Courtesy of MSNBC, the videotape appears beneath this possibly curious headline:
'Completely laughable': Rattner debunks Trump's tax cut claim
Had Rattner proceeded to debunk the claim that Trump's tax cut created a great economy? Actually, no! As you can see on the videotape, Rattner debunked three LIES told by Candidate Trump during the great debate.
As you can see on the videotape, the second of Trump's three LIES was now said to be this:
TRUMP LIE #2: LARGEST TAX CUT IN HISTORY
In fact, Rattner had proceeded to debunk the claim that the Trump tax cut was the largest in history!
During the actual debate, that claim was made first by President Biden! But Morning Joe viewers were now told that this "completely laughable" claim was one of Trump's LIES.
Viewers weren't told that President Biden made the same claim during the debate. As he debunked the second of Trump's three LIES, Rattner said—accurately, as far as we know—that Trump's tax cut was "nowhere near the largest in history."
It was only the eighth largest tax cut in history, Rattner said. In this way, the Morning Joe team had debunked Candidate Trump's latest LIE.
Sad! Biden and Trump had said the same thing during the ersatz debate. It was now presented as Trump's latest LIE, with no mention of the fact that Biden had made the same statement.
Sad! In part, we'd call attention to the pleasing use of that pleasing term—to Rattner's pleasing use of the L-bomb, which has become a standard weapon in Blue America's hapless attempt to wage war against Donald J. Trump. We'd also note the fleeting nature of the pseudo-discussion which took place during the pseudo-debate.
At any rate, President Biden had aggressively said it—but it was now one of Trump's LIES.
For liberal viewers of Morning Joe, was there a bit of a whiplash? Four days later, did they remember the way President Biden had complained about "the largest tax cut in history?"
Were they puzzled, if only for the briefest of moments, to see the president's claim denounced as a LIE by Donald J. Trump—with no mention of the fact that it was actually President Biden who had introduced the claim a mere four nights before?
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but any claim that we enjoy an actual national discourse now comes from the dark side of Neptune. Nothing will turn on the clownish concatenation of events which we've briefly described today, but these events offer a hint of the way our alleged discourse is routinely an "imitation of life."
In roughly a decade of chasing Trump, Blue America has largely run on the rocket fuel of such pleasing terms as LIAR, LYING and LIES.
We'll start to discuss the problems with this approach before the week is done. For today we invite you to marvel at this peculiar turn of events, with Mika sitting silently by as an angry claim by President Biden was now described as the latest of Trumps many LIES.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep. In the main, our flailing nation's public discourse is a midsummer night's illusion.
In that sense, so of course is "our democracy," which we now claim we're trying to save.
Having said that, we'll also say this:
In one of the excerpts we've posted above, Candidate Trump made one of his favorite claims. The claim is so silly, so completely absurd, that its constant promulgation out on the stump makes a joke of our failed public discourse.
To which claim are we referring? We refer to the transparently ludicrous claim lodged inside this presentation:
TRUMP: Nobody’s ever created an economy like us. Nobody ever cut taxes like us. He’s the only one I know. He wants to raise your taxes by four times. He wants to raise everybody’s taxes by four times. He wants the Trump tax cuts to expire so everybody, including the two of you are going to pay four to five times. Nobody ever heard of this before.
Really? Did the candidate really say that as two major journalists sat by?
Really? Does President Biden really "want to raise your taxes by four times?" Does he really "want to raise everybody’s taxes by four times?"
Candidate Trump made this transparently ludicrous claim right there during the ersatz debate. The two moderators—Tapper and Bash—sat silently by, casting themselves in the role of potted plants.
Candidate Trump makes this transparently ludicrous claim on a regular basis out on the stump. When he does, he typically uses a bigger word:
He tells his supporters that President Biden wants to quadruple their taxes.
The claim is transparently ludicrous—silly to the point of being next door to insane. That said, Tapper and Bash played potted plant, and so does the national press corps.
In a recent column for the Washington Post, E. J. Dionne copped to an "epic fail" in a pre-debate column.
He had predicted that President Biden would exceed expectations at the debate. In the new column he has published this week, he called that an epic fail.
In fairness, Dionne had also said this in that pre-debate column:
DIONNE (7/23/24): But there is a trap [in the upcoming debate] for Biden, too: Because the “age issue” has been raised relentlessly against him, the media have a tendency to overlook or downplay Trump’s many moments of incoherence and even lunacy. Biden and his lieutenants must turn this side-by-side performance into an opportunity to have the two men judged by the same standards.
In that passage, Dionne made a prophecy to rival any ever made by Cassandra inside the doomed walls of Troy.
"The media" tend to overlook Donald Trump's "lunacy," the columnist said. The transparently stupid claim we've cited would be only one example. Other emissions by Trump that fateful night may have been different and worse.
In fact, the candidate spilled with ludicrous claims. Should his cognition be called into question? Why don't our high-end journalists notice or comment or ask?
Tomorrow: Attempting a taxonomy of his peculiar emissions
ReplyDelete"Candidate Trump makes this transparently ludicrous claim"
Wait, what? What's so "transparently ludicrous" about it, Bob?
How can you be so certain that your tribe's dear leader does NOT "want to raise your taxes by four times?"
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if, indeed, he wants that. In fact, I am certain that he wants it at least as much as Donald Trump wants to be dictator and what-not. And that later claim is on every page of your tribe's state-run media. Hey, good for the goose, good for the gander.
Biden (assuming that is who you mean by Dear Leader) has said explicitly that no one making less than $400K per year will see a tax increase. That is how you know whether or not your taxes will increase. His proposal is to tax the rich, by which he means to make the wealthy in our society pay their fair share, by eliminating loopholes that let corporations and rich people avoid paying taxes. As it stands, the wealthy pay a smaller percentage of income tax than people will jobs earning $80-100K.
Delete@10:09 feels certain he knows something because he feels like he knows it -- disregarding what has actually been said by the Biden campaign about increasing taxes on the rich.
DeleteI have made $200 reliably in one day.That was my ideal day in my life and my boss was to a great degree content with me..CNN is additionally awed from my work and is outstandingly happy..check also unpretentious parts by open the affiliation and tap on HOME TECH OR MEDIA………🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤔
Begin here>>>>>>>>> Online work
George Washington has died.
ReplyDeleteI didn't even know he was sick.
DeleteGeorge is doing an incredible job. People are noticing that, more and more.
Delete"With Joe away at re-education camp, Mika brought him on"
ReplyDeleteThis is a gratuitously ugly comment. What does Somerby mean by it?
The term reeducation camp refers to a Chinese communist forced labor prison camp used to punish Uighers, or in Vietnam or Cambodia, to punish political dissidents or enemies.
How can this apply to anything Morning Joe might be doing away from his show? Is Somerby suggesting he is being chastised for supporting Biden's nomination, or is he saying that Morning Joe is being punished for something he said, and if so, what? Or does Somerby think he is being cute by implying that liberal cable hosts need to be reeducated?
And this remark was gratuitous because it has nothing to do with anything said while he was not even there. If Somerby wants to imply something about Joe Scarborough, he should say it more directly, instead of with this kind of sneaky, cowardly snark.
On March 6, 2024, Joe the MSNBC hack said that "this version of Joe Biden (meaning 2024) is the best Joe Biden in decades" and threw in an F U to people who disagree. Joe the hack will go with whichever way the wind blows
DeleteGiven that there was such pressure to get Biden to step down, Morning Joe is not blowing the the hurricane winds pushing Biden out of office, but rather standing up to them. There have been FUs coming from all directions because people feel strongly about this. That doesn't explain why Somerby says he is away at a reeducation camp. Doesn't Somerby know that the people trying to push Biden aside have failed and there is now a growing consensus that Biden IS the candidate for better or worse, and we need to support him in order to defeat Trump?
DeleteWhy are Republicans so desperate to get Biden to drop out of the race?
DeleteSomerby seems to be complaining because the debate consisted of 1 and 2 minute segments in response to moderator questions. Those were the rules of the debate. It is not possible to both debunk (fact check) one's opponent and also state one's own opinion in those short time segments. What Somerby is demanding is unreasonable for anyone, not just Biden who was on the spot trying to react to Trump's stream of lies.
ReplyDeleteWhen Trump said Dems want to quadruple taxes and murder newborn babies, any competent debater would point out the utter absurdity of these charges and ponder what it suggested about the mental fitness of the person who leveled the charges.
DeleteThese were batting-practice fastballs right down the middle of the plate, and Biden whiffed.
DeleteBiden did that. He said Trump was telling nothing but lies. He said it repeatedly. How else do you respond to the idea that babies are being murdered at birth? There is no way to collect info from all the nation's hospitals and ask them "how many newborn babies did you kill this month" in order to prove the remark is untrue. It is sufficient to say it is a lie and Biden did that repeatedly during the debate.
DeleteWhen you read the debate transcript there are much fewer "whiffs" because you get to read what Biden said.
DeleteToday, Somerby is objecting again to the use of the word "lie" to describe what Trump does when he tells a string of deliberate falsehoods that have all been debunked before. We have heard this complaint before. Doesn't Somerby have anything new to say, especially in the context of the campaign. For example, others are discussing the proposals in Project 25 and analyzing the RNC Platform. Some are discussing Trump's latest confusion of his son Barron (who Trump said has a nice wife) with his other sons Eric and Don Jr. Some are pointing out the failure of the NY Times to check its conspiracy theory before printing that Biden has Parkinson's. That is a major media fail but Somerby has no interest in it, apparently. Is that because the NY Times was touting Somerby's own preferred narrative with those lies about Biden?
ReplyDeleteOr maybe it is too much trouble to think about anything new any more. Perhaps it is time for Somerby to step down from this blog and let younger, wiser heads take over. Pundits get old too. Supporting the NY Times just because they finally are saying something Somerby's likes, is a foolish act that undercuts Somerby's previous rants and costs him the perception of integrity. It makes it so obvious that these complaints against journalists are not principled but arise from personal animosity toward specific people coupled with whatever motivates Somerby to support Trump. If Somerby cannot find anything meaningful to say in this wealth of oddity, it may be time for him to retire too.
"In fact, the candidate spilled with ludicrous claims. Should his cognition be called into question? Why don't our high-end journalists notice or comment or ask?"
ReplyDeleteJust as the right way to address Biden's competence was to call for medical evaluation, which Biden has provided in the form of a neurologist's health report stating that he was fit to perform as president, the way to address Trump's competence is also to call for a medical evaluation. Somerby has never done that. He has instead insisted that we consider Trump crazy on the basis of judgments made about his speech statements, by people like Bandy Lee, who lost her job for violating professional ethics and evaluating a candidate remotely and diagnosing him without an examination.
Trump saw a doctor every year during his presidency but he released no medical report and made a joke out of his doctor's statements by claiming he was the most fit man on either, and similar nonsense. Trump has hidden his medical condition from the public, just as he hides his tax files. Voters have the right to know how healthy Trump is, and whether or not his ridiculous rally statements are a symptom of dementia or reflect his lack of knowledge and judgment.
The press should have been demanding this on behalf of the people since 2015. That is an epic fail about which there are crickets from Somerby, even while he defends Trump as possibly believing his own lies and merely being crazy, not a crook. We all should see by now that Trump may be crazy, but is surely a crook, thief, rapist, and fraud.
We on the left are not the ones who need that info. We are lefties because we recognize what Trump is, whereas those on the right do not. The people Somerby needs to preach to are not in the blue "tribe". Somehow Somerby believes that is our fault, when it is the red tribe that is driving our nation to destruction. Just read the Project 2025 plan. This has all gotten very serious while Somerby thinks he is still playing language games.
Trump has cold sores, likely why he was not visible for the last 11 days, and that affliction is a possible cause of neurodegenerative diseases.
Deletetypo: either should be earth, most fit man on earth.
DeleteTrump yesterday said his Doral golf course is the best golf course in the world. Should the media spend a week fact checking that? Trump is a genius salesman who will shamelessly exaggerate everything and effortlessly rearrange any set of facts to maximally benefit him. Constant Dem hysteria about Trump’s lies is not going to work and is a waste of time – most sane people already discount it and focus on what he does and not what he says
ReplyDeleteIt is not genius for a salesman to lie to a prospective customer (or voter) even when it is obviously an exaggeration. There needs to be trust, even between a salesman and customer. There is no such trust when a salesman exaggerates to the point that his statements are obviously untrue. The problem is that what is obvious to someone who calls Trump's remarks exaggeration, is not obvious to another person who may swallow the statement whole hog.
DeleteSo, yes, the media should fact check even things they consider to be obvious exaggerations, because there are other people who will not know better.
Calling a propensity for exaggeration "genius" is offensive to us all. Trump is a conman and it is not genius to con others. It is playing people for fools and criminal, at worst.
Sane people do not discount Trump's nonsensical rhetoric, but as far as his actions and being a genius salesman, check out the S-4 form Trump's "Digital" company had to file (stock is now down in the $20 range, from it's peak close to $80, oof!), it details how risky investing in Trump is and how he is a terrible businessman/salesman, including 6 of his most famous bankruptcies (page 109):
Deletehttps://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1849635/000119312522150801/d226205ds4.htm#rom226205_7
The cope here, is just hilarious.
Aw did you get triggered?
Getting Republican voters to nominate a bigot to be their Presidential nominee is "obvious", not "genius".
Delete
ReplyDeleteI have made $200 reliably in one day.That was my ideal day in my life and my boss was to a great degree content with me..CNN is additionally awed from my work and is outstandingly happy..check also unpretentious parts by open the affiliation and tap on HOME TECH OR MEDIA………🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤔
Begin here>>>>>>>>> Online work
Richard Goldstein has died.
ReplyDeleteThe two debaters said sentences that were roughly similar about taxes but did not agree or mean the same thing in any respect beyond that Trump's made some big tax cuts for the wealthy.
ReplyDeletePortraying these very different beliefs as if they had somehow agreed is ridiculous. You have ignore all of the surrounding context and attitudes of the two candidates to make this fatuous comparison. Somerby is being ridiculous.
Putin is doing well.
ReplyDeletePutin sucks and Drum says he is not doing well at all.
DeletePutin sucks well.
DeleteNo, Trump does the sucking.
DeletePutin has done well to strengthen NATO, diminish Russia's military power, and reduce the production of fossil fuels.
DeleteSteve M. at No More Mister Nice Blog describes the media bias that treats Trump's blathering as serious while disparaging Biden (and other Dems):
ReplyDelete"But even if you believe that Trump's brain is full of failing neurons rather than right-wing disinformation, it's hard to believe that the media has a categorical bias toward portraying major-party candidates as coherent. If that were the case, we wouldn't have had months of stories in the media questioning the mental fitness of Joe Biden.
What we have instead is a bias toward normalizing Republicans, a process that's usually accompanied by an "othering" of Democrats. This has been going on for decades: Walter Mondale was a gloomy wimp, Michael Dukakis was an effete Ivy League weirdo, Al Gore was a prissy egghead, Hillary Clinton was a cackling ballbuster. Their opponents were Real Americans, fond of country music, pickup trucks, and plain-spoken common sense. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden fought against this narrative and won some victories, but the idea that Republicans are normal and Democrats are peculiar is ingrained in our politics, and allows Republicans to embrace genuinely extreme policies -- on guns, abortion, climate change, taxation, regulation, torture, and many other issues -- while Democrats are the ones branded as out-of-step extremists. It doesn't help that Democrats regularly praise at least some Republicans (a favor that's never returned), or that Democrats regularly proclaim that some fellow party members really are ideologically beyond the pale, something Republicans know will lead to instant banishment if it's attempted in their party.
It's because we're accustomed to all this that our political culture struggles to define Trump as a mentally ill person or (more accurately, I think) as a dangerous radical. But we're used to marginalizing Democrats. In Biden's case, we're marginalizing him based on perceived mental fitness, but we nearly always do this to Democrats in some way or another, unless, like Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, they're very good at fighting back."
Trump isn't just a crazy liar, he is a rapist. That should disqualify him from being a presidential candidate. Crickets from Somerby about that.
ReplyDeleteThis is what actual media criticism looks like [Empty Wheel]:
ReplyDelete"THE LIE DAVID SANGER TOLD TO SUSTAIN NYT’S NON-STOP CAMPAIGN AGAINST JOE BIDEN
July 10, 2024/22 Comments/in 2024 Presidential Election, emptywheel /by emptywheel
Predictably, the NYT treated President Biden’s speech to kick off NATO’s 75th Anniversary as if Biden merely invented the date and the event and maybe even NATO itself to cover up a shoddy debate performance. In addition to the subhead that nonsensically complained there was, “no mention of President Biden’s political peril,” in his speech, in this 25-paragraph story, NYT made this a story about Biden’s campaign by:
¶1: Asserting Biden was trying to bolster the alliance and his campaign.
¶2: Describing Biden’s “strong voice, with few errors.”
¶4: Claiming the delivery of Biden’s speech “may have mattered as much as his words.”
¶5: Falsely claiming that the “faltering” of Biden’s campaign “created a test for the alliance that it did not anticipate.”
¶6: Adopting the passive voice to project its obsession with Biden’s delivery onto NATO’s leaders: “Mr. Biden made no mention of his political troubles, but he could not have escaped the fact that every word was being scrutinized for signs of faltering.”
¶7: Declaring that, “By all measures, he passed the test,” but then caveating that judgement by explaining what teleprompters are.
¶8: Quoting Biden’s comments to George Stephanopoulos about his role in leading NATO.
¶9: Mentioning Biden’s attempt to draw a contrast with Trump and derisively adding, “the man he swears he can still beat in November.”
¶10: Describing Biden’s goal for the contrast.
¶13: Explaining that, “Mr. Biden’s own aides concede that no matter how well the president performs [at NATO] he cannot make Americans unsee his debate performance.”
¶14: Falsely claiming that “confidence in its core member” was in doubt only because of Biden’s debate performance, and not Trump generally.
Compare that wildly partisan approach with the WaPo, which said only, “the summit is a moment of intense scrutiny as he faces pressure over his readiness to serve another four years,” in ¶12 out of 43 paragraphs (though WaPo has since added a story comparable to NYT’s, complete with claims of “defian[ce]”).
To sustain this fairytale — that the NATO summit exists merely as a measure of Biden’s ability to recover from his debate — David Sanger and Lara Jakes lie."...
They go on to explain the lies.
Somerby should write stuff like this instead of pretending he is not a Trump shill.
It's weird that so many anons feel like they should be Somerby's assignment editor.
DeleteGeorge Clooney has ended Biden’s candidacy.
DeleteThere’s no coming back from this.
George Clooney is not a liberal. He's on Putin's payroll.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:25pm, correction: Putin is on Clooney’s payroll.
DeleteVia Iran and Qatar.
DeleteAnd Lebanon.
DeleteSomerby is the one claiming to be a media critic.
DeleteThere is also this:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.emptywheel.net/2024/07/09/reading-the-nyt-front-page-so-you-dont-have-to/
They break down the NYTimes front page illustrating how the anti-Biden headlines have little to do with the actual stories and showing the slant that includes not discussing Trump's Project 2025.
This is real media criticism. Somerby's pretense at even musing about the media is a joke. His idea of media coverage is to attack "carefully selected" journalists, usually youngish, female and graduates of elite colleges. Meanwhile, Somerby is among those eager to push Biden off the Democratic ticket, while touting Trump and excusing the red tribe when it wants to install an authoritarian dictator in place of a president.
"[Trump] tells his supporters that President Biden wants to quadruple their taxes.
Delete"The claim is transparently ludicrous—silly to the point of being next door to insane."
Is this your idea of "touting Trump"?
There is no such thing as "Trump's Project 2025." Project 2025 is a plan from the Heritage Foundation that Trump never adopted. In fact, he specifically disavowed it. Trump did put out his own platform, which is quite different and more moderate.
DeleteIt's amusing that people who fault Trump for lying feel free to lie about Trump.
Lying about Trump is all they do. All they have done since 2016. It's natural: they cling to power. By any and all means.
DeleteDavid, Trump is a lying sack of shit. That makes him persuasive and clever and a master salesman, right? What other bullshit do you care to whine about today?
DeleteProject 2025 is not Trump's . It's the Heritage Foundation's. Trump disavowed it.
DeleteOf course Trump didn't produce that 900-page tome on his own. The very idea is laughable.
DeleteWhat parts of the document has he specifically disavowed? Let's not pretend that Trump doesn't take orders from the Heritage Foundation. Just ask Amy Comey Barrett, and Beer-Bong-Brett.
Trump couldn't even READ it on his own.
DeleteTrump commissioned it. He is behind everything in it. He has mentioned most of it in his speeches. He owns it.
Delete"Trump disavowed it."
DeleteHe's been campaigning on the contents of Project 2025 since 2021 if not sooner.
Hit the showers DiC.
PP, the example you give of Somerby supposedly not touting Trump was used by Somerby to criticize Tapper and Bash. Somerby did not say those yhings as a criticism of Trump at all but of the debate moderators. Somerby will not say directly that Trump lies.
DeleteSee above - Wheeler is giving you partisan garbage. She's playing to your confirmation biases. It is exactly what real media criticism doesn't look like. It's what partisan hackery looks like.
DeletePer Trump (as honest a Republican politician as there has ever been), he has both never heard of, and disagrees with, what's in Project 2025.
DeleteTrump claims not to know who is behind Project 2025. A CNN review found at least 140 people who worked for him are involved https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025/index.html
DeleteBut DiC believes Trump's Sergeant Schultz act, LOL.
Schultz's main goal is to avoid any trouble with his superiors, which often leads him to ignore the clandestine activities of the prisoners. (On those occasions, he often used his catchphrase "I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing!" As the series went on, this became simply "I know nothing.
This "Project 2025" no one ever heard of is being glamorized so much by the Democrat party now.
DeleteI have no idea what it is, but anything that triggers idiot-moonbats so much has to be the greatest thing in the world. Whatever it is, I hope it's implemented to the fullest extent.
Well ok, maggot. Go for it.
Delete8:46,
DeleteIt's the same warmed-over bigotry, the Republican Party has been selling since Reagan, with even less democratic representation of non-white males.
8:46,
DeleteIt's the same warmed-over bigotry they've been selling since before Reagan. Except, this has the U.S. military enforcing it.
What did you think it was about? Economics? LOL.
Rattner did something annoying, which conservatives also sometimes do: He took an ambiguous statement and chose the interpretation that makes it false. Was Trump’s tax cut the biggest in terms of dollars or per cent? Rattner showed it was not the biggest in terms of per cent. But he did not address its size in term of $.
ReplyDelete
DeleteOne way or another, every Democrat "fact check" is a lie. That's a given.
Let's not quibble, Dickhead in Cal. It was a damn huge tax cut putting a serious dent in the national debt, and amounted to mainly a great transfer of wealth from the middle class to his friends who already had "fuck you" wealth. I am glad you're defending that.
DeleteAmerica is a nation that can be defined in a single word: Iwuzindfutmhmafut!
Delete@2:24 Is a big tax cut good or bad? From the POV of government, it's bad. Government has less money.. From my POV it's good. I have more money.
Delete@David in Cal 3:03 PM
DeleteActually, Trump's tax cut was probably bad for you: cap on the SALT deduction. Probably the biggest tax hike on the rich in decades.
The main feature was lowering the corporate tax rate. Attracting businesses, bringing them back to the US.
So much bullshit, so little time. Trump's tax cut was not the largest in history, whether you look at percent of GDP or inflation-adjusted dollars. So who's being more "annoying," Rattner or Trump? Is Trump just flat-out lying, or is he using some meaningless metric like NOMINAL dollars? Either would be more bullshit from the biggest bullshit artist in U.S. history (in inflation-adjusted bullshit).
DeleteAnd Monaco Mao chimes in with his characteristic "up is down" bullshit: "One way or another, every Democrat "fact check" is a lie. That's a given." So are lies a bad thing, then, Mao? You don't like them? Then why do you support a pathological liar? You're the biggest hypocrite commenter on here.
"Is a big tax cut good or bad? From the POV of government, it's bad. Government has less money.. From my POV it's good. I have more money." DIC goes on and on, and on and on some more, about just how catastrophically dangerous the national debt is. Well, guess what hypocrite, Trump's tax cuts led to a huge increase in the debt. And of course, taxes obviously pay for valuable public goods, like infrastructure, public education, defense, etc.
Is bigotry good or bad? From the standpoint of being a minority, it's bad. You don't get to reap the benefits of being a white male. For white males, it's good, because they get a bigger share of the economic pie.
DeleteEither way, there is no such thing as an "economically anxious" Republican voter. Republican voters only care about bigotry and white supremacy.
Finally the oppressed minority of Soros' trained monkeys found its tribune.
DeleteMonaco Mao has no counter argument, so he falls back on his stale retort about Soros. Meanwhile, billionaires benefit the Mao/Trump/Republican side more than they do Dems. Trump recently told some billionaire oil tycoons that if they donated a billion dollars to his campaign, he'd do their bidding. Not a word from Mao about this.
DeleteMany of Trump’s “lies” were mere exaggerations. He did have a big tax cut. He did cut a lot of regulations. His economy pre-covid was great.
ReplyDeleteOTOH some Biden whoppers were way off. E.g. he said the inflation rate when he took office was high — something like 16 per cent IIRC when he took office. It was actually low — under 2 per cent.
GDP followed on the same trajectory of about 4% growth with no notable changes after the tax cuts. Except in 2020 GDP dipped. Discuss amongst yourself.
DeleteAs an aside, the FTC, which regulates what companies can claim in their advertisements, allows companies to claim that their product is "the best", since that means that it's just as good as any other product. What companies cannot claim without some proof is that their product is "better".
Actually, what Biden said on more than one occasion was that the inflation rate was 9% when he came into office. That was way, way off - it was well under 2%. And it's disturbing, at least to me, that he seems so uninformed - and stays so uninformed - about something so critically important to his job and to his campaign.
DeleteThe argument I think he's trying to make is that it was the stimulus under Trump that drove the inflation rate to 9% a year-and-a-half after he took office. But that's way too complicated an argument for someone as halting as Biden to make, he just doesn't have the skills. (And it's also disingenuous, because the Dems supported the stimulus and Biden added even more stimulus. And appropriately so, on both occasions, in my opinion.)
DeleteThe inflation rate started climbing in 2021, which is attributable to either Trump's stimulus or Covid or whatever -- but it's not on Biden. It was around 7%, from what I gather, has been falling steadily every since.
DeleteYou don't make that kind of argument in 1 minute, even if you cram nothing else into your answer.
Delete9.1% was the peak inflation in July 2022 and declined steadily after that. 2020 was the year of lockdown. 2021 was the first year after covid, during which inflation increased steadily to that 9.1% high point as people spent money again, including their unemployment and recovery incentives. So, it took Biden about a year to wrestle inflation down to a better level. So, the 9% figure is correct, but not the description of what it indicates. It arose because of covid and Biden inherited the entire pandemic, so it is fair to say that Biden didn't cause it except by fighting the other effects of covid on the economy, and he has now fixed inflation too.
Deletehttps://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/05/us-monthly-inflation-rate-chart/
Delete"something like 16 per cent IIRC"
DeleteYDRC.
The fact that unemployment skyrocketed in the summer of 2020 and the country was going thru shutdowns etc might have something to do with the low inflation rate in Jan 2021. But of course DiC likes to cherry pick his data to suit his agenda.
DeleteIf you're American, your grocery bill nearly doubled during the Biden regime.
DeleteToo bad you're too stupid to understand that it's all Trump's fault.
Please listen to Democrat state-run media as often as you can, and they will explain it to you, as they explained it to me. I am a good decent person now.
8:35, we know grocery prices went up over the past 3 years, but nowhere near doubling as you claim, you lying sack of shit.
Delete8:59 AM is another deplorable Trump defender.
Delete"Many of Trump’s “lies” were mere exaggerations."
DeleteWhat was the giveaway? That the successful Manhattan real estate King turned out to be a failed real estate developer from Queens?
Speaking as an actuary, Rattner’s claim that he adjusted job figures for covid is dubious. Nobody knows how to make such an adjustment properly. Covid had too many short term and long term impacts.
ReplyDeleteEvery time Donald Trump says the sun rises in the East, millions of Democrat fact-checkers start working long hours making adjustments to demonstrate how it's an outrageous lie.
DeleteIt's a whole industry, really.
Trump actually says he causes the sun to rise in the east, and maggots like DiC believe him.
DeleteYes, idiot-moonbat, he says he's running the world.
DeleteOh, wait, it was actually Biden. Never mind, move along, nothing to see here.
Yes, mao-mao, Trump says a lot of idiotic things and people laugh at him. maggots like DiC think it shows how clever and persuasive he is.
DeleteLook at me, idiot-moonbat: I'm running the world!
DeleteI beat Medicare! My uncle was eaten by cannibals!
Listen here, shit-for-brains maggot, the comment about beating Medicare was obviously a misspeak. There is no doubt however in my mind that President Biden is committed to protecting Medicare, contrary to the orange abomination bullshit artist conman who speaks out of both sides of his mouth. It bothers me not that Biden misspoke. The shit about the cannibals? Who knows? It certainly has no impact on my well being or policies the president promotes and enacts.
DeleteYes, idiot-moonbat, you know it: I'm the goodest!
DeleteAnd you're the idiotest-moonbatest!
Yes, mao-mao, you're doing a fine job of proving it here daily.
DeleteDavid is not a maggot.
Delete2:30, I disagree. Anyone who thinks Trump's cruel, ugly and offensive "jokes" are funny is a maggot, QED.
DeleteA maggot is an arthropod. David is a chordate.
DeleteI am not using the word in the literal sense.
Delete
Delete@2:09 "the comment about beating Medicare was obviously a misspeak"
Of course it was. The question is whether Biden's frequent misspeaks are a sign of deteriorating cognition.
It is laughable that DiC, a full-throated Trump apologist, is criticizing the way another politician might misspeak on occasion. Don't you worry your fascist little brain about it, David.
DeleteBiden missed his peak, but I still prefer him over Trump.
DeleteDavid, do we have to tell you again that Biden was examined by a neurologist who said he is fit to do the job of president? Why do you ignore facts and return to lies, such as that he has a deteriorating cognition (which is contradicted by his performance on the job).
DeleteOne way to "adjust" for covid is to skip that year and leave it out of the data, and then look at the remaining trend. That works well because the trends are so positive on almost all measures. It is very hard to find anything Biden hasn't done well with, after covid. That's why the Republicans are focusing on his age and misspeaks.
Delete@DiC
Delete"The question is whether Biden's frequent misspeaks are a sign of deteriorating cognition."
But not Trump's! Those are the mark of clever persuasion!
Whataboutism is a psychological defense mechanism that serves as a means to deflect criticism or scrutiny away from an issue instead of dealing with it directly. Processing and addressing Biden's tragic and obvious deteriorating cognition is difficult on so many different levels. It totally makes sense you would instinctively shift the focus away from it.
Delete"Whataboutism is a psychological defense mechanism." Total bullshit. We're debating which option of a binary choice would be better/worse: Biden or Trump. If someone argues that Biden would be the worse option because X, this argument is nullified if X (or something worse than X) is true of Trump.
DeleteMike, Biden's frequent misspeaks and deteriorating cognition are important on their own merits. Whether it's a binary choice or not, his cognitive decline significantly impacts his abilities, and therefore our country, if he remains president now or after the next election. While your logic suggests that Trump has the same issues or worse, this doesn't negate the relevance and importance of recognizing and addressing Biden's obvious cognitive decline. As a partisan, it is only natural that you would also deflect away from directly addressing this horrible issue that is happening in front of all of our eyes by defending attempts to do the same. I feel where you are coming from and understand why you would prefer to "nullify" discussions of this brutal and sad decline in cognition and ability. But it's happening in front of the entire world and the entire world knows and sees it is happening, it remains highly, highly relevant and important despite binary choices and partisan leanings. 🧩
DeleteThat Donald Trump said that the sun rises in the East is bullshit. He never said it. What next? Are we going to claim Trump said water is wet, too? If so, bring the receipts to prove it. Until then, go soak your head.
Delete@David in Cal 6:26 PM
Delete"the comment about beating Medicare was obviously a misspeak"
Obviously. What he actually meant to say was "Oops! I pooped my pants again!"
"As a member of the corporate-owned media, it is only natural that you would also deflect away from directly addressing this horrible issue that is happening in front of all of our eyes by defending attempts to do the same."
DeleteCorrected for accuracy about the media and recent Supreme Court decisions.
Good Morning Mr. Sarcasm and Performative Irony!!! The same troll doing the same tired jokes in the same tired meme formats. How old will you be before you stop sending juvenile, sarcastic zingers that deflect attention from issues uncomfortable to you?
DeleteWhat's that Soros-bot?
DeleteI am Soros' trained monkey, Christo Nation.
DeleteI confess black people's votes counted rapist snowflake Katie.
". . . it remains highly, highly relevant and important despite binary choices and partisan leanings." No one said it wasn't relevant or important. And I've been clear that I think Biden should step down. NOT because a second Biden term would be bad (it wouldn't be, especially compared to a second Trump term), but because he will likely lose the election. This isn't about "partisan leanings." It's about a choice between America as we've known it (rule of law, democracy, freedom of the press, freedom FROM state religion, etc.) and an utterly corrupt, quasi-fascistic, dictatorial kleptocracy, much like we see in Russia. To dismiss people's arguments as partisan or with a bunch of psychobabble about "deflection" is just a type of ad hominem fallacy and ignores the context in which the debate is occurring.
DeleteI guess I don't understand what your argument is. I was referring to the argument over the question of whether Biden's frequent misspeaks are a sign of deteriorating cognition. Which stands on its own and is very, very important. Contributions to the argument that say "whatabout Trump" like QiB's are whataboutism that deflect scrutiny away from the argument instead of dealing with it directly. But thanks for your reply.
Delete1:35,
DeleteAgreed. I don’t see why the Biden stuff excuses the fact that Trump is a rapist, and self-proclaimed sexual predator.
Maybe some honest broker, like Newt Gingrich (LOL) can explain it.’
"As the pseudo-discussion jumped all about, little effort was made to examine the candidates dueling claims about the effects of this largest tax cut. The debate included drive-by mention of various topics, but little real discussion of any."
ReplyDeleteCNN's desired outcome.
Let's get rid of "Justices" Thomas and Alito.
ReplyDeleteThe term "fail" refers to a goal that you have set but didn't accomplish. It is not a term that makes sense applied by one person to another person's efforts because you don't know what their goal was.
ReplyDeleteWhen Somerby went to Harvard and majored in philosophy, he says he failed several classes and had to retake them during summer school. Was that a fail? It depends on what his goal was. If it was to pick the most useless major possible and waste his mother's money by not going to class, then he clearly succeeded. If it was to do well, learn something, and prepare for a productive career, then not so much.
A person who breaks a hip, has surgery, and can barely hobble across a room, may be doing well under the circumstances. Meeting their PT goals for the day is an accomplishment, but they won't look like anyone athletic to other people. They may be happy for the mobility they have regained, not feeling bad because they cannot run up stairs (yet).
If your goal is to tear someone down, then fail is the exact word to use. But you have to be careful about expectations because they depend on context. No one who works seriously with training or teaching or therapy or helping others will throw that word around, and it makes me acutely uncomfortable when Somerby does it, especially knowing that his own goal is to hurt Biden, not to keep Trump out of the White House and help our nation remain a democracy.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent comment were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone who reads these comments is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
DeleteGeorge Soros is my God. He commanded me to post this comment.
Delete11:43,
DeleteWhat next? That bigots who vote Republican aren’t actually economically anxious?