REASON(S): American madness, American Babel!

MONDAY, DECEMBER 9, 2024

The winner gets something right: Our American madness was on display on yesterday's Meet the Press.

In our view, the post-"democratization" madness was general over the hour-long program. In this morning's New York Times, the highly astute Peter Baker describes one part of the mess:

Trump Signals an Aggressive Opening, Threatening ‘Jail’ for Cheney and Others

[...]

Asked if he would consider pardoning “everyone” who attacked the Capitol, Mr. Trump said: “Yeah. But I’m going to be acting very quickly.” Pressed, he added, “First day.”

He did say “there may be some exceptions,” those who were “radical, crazy.” But asked about those convicted of assaulting police officers, he defended them. “Because they had no choice,” he said. And he suggested those convicted were being mistreated. “They’ve been in there for years, and they’re in a filthy, disgusting place that shouldn’t even be allowed to be open,” he said.

In fact, only a handful of Capitol riot inmates are left in the Washington jail and most of those are serving significant sentences for violent crimes...

Full disclosure! Much of the quoted exchange wasn't included in the edited TV interview. The full interview was substantially longer.

(Tape of the full interview can be seen here. As far we know, the full interview hasn't been transcribed.)

In that part of his report, Baker is quoting statements by Trump which didn't make it to air. Some of the statements can't be found in the official Meet the Press transcript.

In full fairness, we'd have to say this:

Baker's account may misstate what the winning candidate meant when he said, "They had no choice."

All in all, possible errors like that may emerge—will almost surely continue to emerge—from our rapidly growing American Babel, in which different tribes tell vastly different stories about the era's key events.

It's possible that Baker, who's quite astute, misread that one remark by Trump. Then again, yesterday's madness included this:

As for birthright citizenship, Mr. Trump said that he would try to reverse the constitutional guarantee that anyone born in the United States is a citizen regardless of the status of their parents. Most legal scholars have said the president has no power to overturn the right to citizenship guaranteed by the 14th Amendment, which says that “all persons born” in the United States “are citizens of the United States.”

[...] 

“We’re going to have to get it changed,” Mr. Trump said. “We’ll maybe have to go back to the people. But we have to end it.”

He repeatedly said falsely that “we’re the only country that has it.” In fact, the World Population Review lists 34 other countries and territories that also have unrestricted birthright citizenship, including Canada and Mexico.

Is that really possible? Is it really possible that a former and incoming president could be so flatly wrong about such a basic factual claim? 

We'd have to say that it is possible, and we'll also add this:

If the winning candidate really was wrong, citizens of Red America will never hear a word about it on their nation's "cable news" programs. 

Over here, in Blue America, his error will be reported and discussed. So it goes, this very morning, in Baker's report in the Times. (This link is offered in support of Baker's assertion, for those few inclined to click.)

Blue Americans will hear about the winner's howler. Red Americans won't. 

In our view, the madness was general over the (unedited) length of the winning candidate's remarks. But then, the madness has been general for quite a while as our American Babel keeps growing.

Why would anyone have voted for Trump in last month's election? Many of us in Blue America are still trying to puzzle that out. Last Tuesday morning, one of our major tribunes made a basic factual error as he reviewed the scene.

Speaking with the Washington Post's Gene Robinson, that major tribune said this:

There is a lot of talk about the Democratic Party has to re-examine everything they've done. And I've talked about massive gains in Texas, in Florida, in middle America—that is true. But there is another side of that...When everyone talks about the rise of the far right and everything else, Donald Trump got less votes in 2024 than he got in 2020. 

That was Joe Scarborough, speaking to Gene Robinson on the December 3 Morning Joe. Robinson never corrected the factual error. Can anyone here play this game?

Nationwide popular vote, Candidate Trump
2020: 74,223,975 votes
2024: 77,289,122 votes (and counting)

Sad! Even as votes keep trickling in, Candidate Trump has gained more than three million votes over his previous total. (He has received fourteen million more votes than he got in 2016.)

By way of contrast, Candidate Harris has received roughly six million fewer votes than Candidate Biden did in the 2020 election. Those are the kinds of basic facts we Blues might want to explain.

That said, can anyone play this game? Trump was already 2.9 million votes ahead of his previous total when Scarborough made his misstatement. On the most highly paid ends of the game, does anyone try to get clear on the most elementary facts before they start delivering their pronouncements?

Everyone makes mistakes at some point. Does Scarborough's latest factual error really make any difference? 

We'll answer your question with a gloomier question. Does anything really make any difference at this late stage of the game?

We're all inside a Babel now—a modern American Babel. We're living inside the comically awful, shattered remains of a formerly very large nation.

On this morning's Morning Joe, Vandehei and Allen described their most recent column at Axios. In it,  they describe the basic reality of this new American Babel. Their description starts like this:

Shards of glass: Inside media's 12 splintering realities

You can't understand November's election—or America itself—without reckoning with how our media attention has shattered into a bunch of misshapen pieces.

Think of it as the shards of glass phenomenon. Not long ago, we all saw news and information through a few common windows—TV, newspapers, cable. Now we find it in scattered chunks that match our age, habits, politics and passions.

Why it matters: Traditional media, at least as a center of dominant power, is dead. Social media, as its replacement for news in the internet era, is declining in dominance.

What comes next: America is splintering into more than a dozen news bubbles based on ideology, wealth, jobs, age and location.

This means where you get your news, the voices you trust, and even the topics and cultural figures you follow could be wholly different from the person sitting next to you.

That last sentence doesn't quite scan—but then again, so what? The reality they're describing is discernible, and it's extremely basic:

"So instead of Red America and Blue America, we'll have a dozen or more Americas—and realities," the gentlemen say as they continue. "This will make understanding public opinion, and finding common agreement, even more complex and elusive."

For today, and for the rest of the week, we'll stick with the two Americas, Red and Blue, and with their "cable news" realities. We'll spend the week trying to answer a question which has been prevalent across the Blue American landscape:

How could anyone have voted for Candidate Trump? Could there be any understandable reason for casting such a strange vote?

Why would anyone have voted for Trump? When we Blues can't even imagine an answer to that basic question, that suggests that we ourselves are part of the madness—that the madness is also in us.

To the extent that we bother to watch, we Blues are able to see the madness as it appears on the Fox News Channel. Are we able to see the madness as it surfaces within us?

Why might someone have voted for Trump? Why might someone have voted against our own Candidate Harris?

In our view, the possible answers are legion, and they're blindingly obvious. That said, for one of Blue America's thought leaders, the only possible answer was this:

It must be that at least half of America is "just deeply racist."

In our view, it doesn't help when we ourselves, we Blue Americans, let the madness rise within us. In full fairness to the winning candidate, we're therefore forced to say this:

In the Meet the Press interview, as it aired, the winning candidate in this year's race named two major reasons why he won.

We think his statement made obvious sense—though we can, and we will, cite other possible reasons. It seems to us that there are quite a few reasons which may explain, or may help explain, why he got all those votes. 

He made a lot of nutty statements as he spoke to Kristen Welker. Many of his nuttier statements were edited out of the interview as it was shown on the air.

That said, we think he was probably right about the two reasons why he won. Tomorrow, we'll start with the two reasons he named, and then we'll move on from there.

Tomorrow: The winner cites two reasons

72 comments:

  1. Trump's statements could get a lot nuttier before they approach those of the unhinged Democrat candidate including "I'm going to force you to pay for genital surgery for mentally ill prison inmates who want to pretend they're women."

    It's morning in America.

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    1. Kamala Harris, who ran a perfect campaign, is going to destroy J.D. Vance in 2028. She is the triple threat of charisma, intelligence, and experience.

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    2. Anonymouse 10:33am, Comma La is done. Democrats aren’t stupid.

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    3. "Comma La" is getting really old. She lost. let her alone - not that you listen to me.

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    4. AC/MA, I make sure that everyone is aware that I’m pronouncing Comma La’s name correctly for Bob’s sake, He made a bit of an issue out of this and I don’t want to disappoint him.

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    5. Cecilia, I understand, but I do think it's getting old. It's not something that's really called for that you keep reminding everyone that you're pronouncing (in writing) her name correctly. You've made your point, to the extent there was one.

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    6. You forgot your slash mark.

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    7. "You've made your point, to the extent there was one."

      There isn't. Just first-grade taunting.

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    8. Anonymouse 8:20pm, liberals are amazingly sensitive and easily provoked considering the kind of rhetoric that flies around here as to your contrarians. You’ll live.

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    9. I'd hate for you to live with Joe Biden pardoning Hunter.

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    10. Anonymouse 9:55pm, well, you shouldn’t hate it for me. It confirmed everything his critics said of him.

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    11. Trials with evidence confirm guilt, not pardons. Trump was convicted by several juries. He is a criminal, worse than anything Hunter was accused of. Keep that in mind while gloating. Trump will always have that stigma, which he deserves in ways Hunter does not.

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    12. 11:33 doesn't care that all Republican voters are bigots.

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  2. "In fact, the World Population Review lists 34 other countries and territories that also have unrestricted birthright citizenship, including Canada and Mexico."

    According to wikipedia, it's not entirely "unrestricted" in Canada. Not as unrestricted as in the US.

    Consequently, and knowing you liberals for the liars you are, I find it safe to assume that The Donald has a very good, solid reason to say what he says.

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    1. It's safe to assume liberals are either are lying by taking Trump's words out of context, or lying by misrepresenting facts. Never believe them without exhaustive fact-checking.

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    2. A pathetic attempt by Bob to find fault with Trump by focusing on an irrelevant exaggeration,

      Birthright citizenship may be a bad idea or a good idea for the US today. Its value doesn’t depend on whether most countries reject it or all other countries reject it.

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    3. D & C - whoa there! Don't you constantly focus on irrelevant exaggerations? It's "pathetic" to point out that Trump claims that the US is the only country to have this law, when 34 other countries also do? I do think that it would be more relevant to focus on his appointment of a "crypto czar" however. so the US can invest billions in crypto.

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    4. Dickhead in Cal, this is not a matter for debate. It is part of our fucking Constitution, you treasonous bastard. We fought a fucking Civil War with nearly a million dead with resulting amendments to the Constitution including birthright citizenship. So you and donny j chickenshit can go fuck yourselves until you can amend the constitution you can shut the fuck up.

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    5. Keep in mind that Trump's kids are subject to birthright citizenship.

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    6. Of course it is pathetic that someone points out Trump fabricated his facts. That's old news and the habit is well accepted by DIC and the other cult members. Meanwhile saying it bolsters Trump's argument, or he wouldn't have said it , and rubes like DIC lap it up without question until forced to confront the facts by Somerby, at which point the default mode is to label Some ruby's statement pathetic. That is the way the game is played by amoral rubes like DIC, for whom facts are the enemy.

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    7. Soros is Netanyahu for people who don't support genocide.

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  3. " ... the highly astute Peter Baker>"

    I hope this is sarcasm.

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  4. The full MTP interview runs over an hour. So far I’ve watched about a third. The most striking aspect is how reasonable and knowledgeable Trump sounds. I don’t agree with all of his positions, but Trump’s responses are buttressed by facts and calmly delivered. If this were a debate with the MTP host, and it almost was, Trump was the clear winner,

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    1. I'm surprised Trump said he wants to pardon Antifa for their actions on January 6, 2021.
      Especially, since they are so against the Republican Party, they put it in their name.

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    2. Did Welker ask the felon about any of his crimes, Dickhead in Cal?

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    3. She asked whether Trump would accept a pardon from Bide or pardon himself. Trump said he doesn't need a pardon because he did nothing wrong. He said the cases against him are collapsed or collapsing.

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    4. He said members of the J6 committee should be jailed. I remember when "weaponization of the DOJ" was a bad thing.

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    5. Correct, Quaker, but he didn't say he would jail them. On the contrary he said he would not direct law enforcement agencies to take any particular action.

      He also made a more general statement about his priorities, such as the border and crime, implying or saying that vengeance is not his priority. He specifically said that vengeance would be a successful country.

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    6. But Dickhead, he actually committed the felonies. Did she explore any of those? Why did she allow him to attack the Jan committee with lies and never told him to his fat fucking lying face that he was too chickenshit to testify to the committee. He forfeits his right to attack the committee, you treasonous bastard,

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    7. You really can't expect an honest good faith discussion with Dickhead in Cal.

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    8. I see. The president-elect said he was in favor of weaponizing the legal system, but didn't say he'd actually, you know, do it. And he's named a couple of loyalists to become attorney general and director of the FBI. But they'll uphold the tradition of independence from executive branch interference. Probably.

      This is just fine.

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    9. Trump will leave the border open, like he did last time, because his constituents like cheap labor.

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    10. Here's a 'reasonable, knowledgeable' comment:

      "Within 10 minutes after that phone call (to Mexican President Sheinbaum), we noticed that the people coming across the border, the southern border having to do with Mexico, there was at a trickle. Just a trickle. In fact, I called the border. See, unlike my opponent, I do call the border a lot. And I said, "How’s the border looking today?" They said, "There’s nobody here." They couldn’t believe it."

      So Trump talked to Sheinbaum. Then within 10 minutes of the call, he checked to see if the call had had literally an instantaneous effect on broder crossings. And sure enough it did! How does he know? He called "the border"!

      It's under 'B' in the phone book.

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    11. Quaker and anonymous mice’s. Time will tell. If Trump does attempt to jail Jan 6 investigators I will apologize here. Hope you will do the same if he doesn’t.

      However, if one of them is convicted of committing a crime then their prosecution is appropriate, and I will not apologize.

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    12. No need to apologize David. Just admit you've just had your ass handed to you and go lick your wounds.

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    13. If Trump starts rounding up the Jews, I will vote for him in 2028.

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    14. Dickhead in Cal, to quote Liz Cheney, "bring it on" you fucking treasonous bastards. Donny J Chickenshit is too much of a lying coward to ever expose himself to the facts of the Jan 6 committee report but trying to indict a member of congress. You have some fucking balls, Dickhead.

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  5. Where are all the Soros-monkeys and Corbys today? Is this a holiday in Albania?

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    1. These blog comments have gone full maga.

      Why does Somerby call Trump “the winner” instead of the president-elect? Is it to needle any remaining Democrats lingering here?

      Why does Somerby normalize Trump’s lies by calling them a different tribal story? They’re still lies, whether he won the election or not.

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  6. Anonymouse 12:28pm, they’re doing a day of self-flagellation in sympathy for another neurotic and self-obsessed liberal woman.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/having-sex-old-hookup-midway-143102068.html

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    1. Liberal women withhold sex, shave heads to protest Trump win.

      https://nypost.com/2024/11/08/us-news/liberal-women-vow-sex-strike-in-protest-over-trumps-win/

      That one, in your link, is a traitor.

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    2. Anonymouse 12:57pm, I haven’t seen any men complaining. Have they noticed?

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    3. Are you kidding? That's liberal women. No one wants to even be in the same room with them.

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    4. Most Right-wing men are afraid of women, in general.

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    5. Most Soros-trained monkeys love sharing their phobias, in public.

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    6. I mean, what are the Right gong to do? Have consensual sexual relations? LOL. I'll take my chances.

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  7. I've noticed there is no way to tell the difference between Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and the "fine people" on the Right who attended the "Unite the Right" march in Charlottesville.

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    1. Use of the term "soros monkeys" might be a clue.

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    2. Are flying monkeys vermin?

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  8. Luigi Mangione has been arrested in regard to the Brian Thompson murder. Twitter account still up. All online presence of this man will be completely scrubbed for narrative control very shortly.

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    1. Where was he born?

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    2. Anonymouse 2:31pm, I have no idea. If he had been less vain he might have gotten away.

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    3. It’s bad enough that I am threatened for being a Jew. Now i am also threatened for being an insurance executive

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    4. Evidently Mangione had a back surgery and was never the same emotionally.

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    5. Mangione is from Bob’s neck of the woods.

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    6. He made a lot of mistakes that got him caught.

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    7. Anonymices:

      https://youtu.be/P5xjR-M3BsY?si=QxnslScuY_RQVFOC

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    8. Cecelia: fuck you.

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    9. Anonymouse 8:28pm, no, thank you.

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    10. Yet another example of the nation's white on white murder epidemic. Let's hope Trump declares martial law to deal with it.

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    11. It’s “white on white murder” today, huh? Yesterday anonymices were expressly cheered by the grudge killing of a CEO in the insurance industry.

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    12. Look at Cecelia pretending to care about anyone but herself.

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    13. Anonymouse 11:39pm, it’s not about me. It’s about you and your warm fuzzies over a bullet in a man’s back. White- on-white crime. Phfff…

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    14. II wish Trump luck. He's going to need it to deal with the white on white murder epidemic, because white people are inherently violent.

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  9. The answer to the question why people voted for Trump is more complex than simply labeling them as racists.

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    1. But that’s a good starting place.

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    2. I, too, wonder if there is something else that gets them so amped-up to vote for Republicans.

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