FRIDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2024
Could the problem (in part) be Us? Why did Candidate Harris (narrowly) lose to Candidate Donald J. Trump?
The question deserves exploration. We restate a basic framework:
On the one hand, it's amazing that Harris came so close, given the ridiculous circumstance which thrust her into the campaign in late July.
(We refer to President Biden's withdrawal from the campaign, roughly one month after his disastrous performance in the June 27 debate.)
No candidate had ever been asked to run a presidential campaign with such a late start. A person could imagine that Harris performed a political miracle by making the race so close.
On the other hand:
On the other hand, she may have lost by a narrow margin, but she lost by that margin to Trump. For many people in Blue America, this brings a few larger questions into play:
How could she, or anyone else, possibly have lost to him?
Also, how could any decent person possibly have decided to vote for a person like Candidate Trump?
Many people in Blue America can't seem to come up with an answer to those questions. In our view, that inability to compute points to a lingering problem over here within our own Blue American nation.
Meanwhile, Van Jones has been conducting a search—a search which touches on those very same points. We think his search is worth reviewing.
Last Saturday, Jones described his search, at some length, during a 53-minute discussion with Chris Cillizza. You can watch the videotape of that colloquy here. For Newsweek's report, click this.
Jones and Cillizza spoke at length. At the 19-minute mark, the slightly agitated Jones offers this assessment of his own political party:
JONES (12/14/24): The Democratic Party is in a ditch, upside down, with wheels spinning, going nowhere, on [BLEEPED].
Already, that doesn't sound good! But here's the fuller assessment:
JONES: The Democratic Party is in a ditch, upside down, with wheels spinning, going nowhere, on [BLEEPED]. And the people driving it are saying, "This is fine. This is fine."So they can keep drinking their own pee water if they want to. I would be much more interested in having an honest conversation.
He wants to have an honest conversation. Or perhaps he's conducting a search.
For the record, the fact that Jones thinks X, Y or Z doesn't mean that those assessments are accurate. In our view, though, Jones has long been sharper than the average bear. We skip ahead to the part of the tape where he describes the fruit of his search.
At minute 27, the CNN commentator starts to describe a revolutionary fact.
JONES: The mainstream media is now, by the numbers, the fringe. And the fringe, by the numbers, is now the mainstream...If I'm sitting next to Anderson Cooper, I'm talking to a million people, maybe a million two. Down the road, on Fox, they're talking to three million people, maybe three point two.
Already, that sounds bad from the Blue American perspective. But here's the fuller assessment:
JONES: If I'm sitting next to Anderson Cooper, I'm talking to a million people, maybe a million two. Down the road, on Fox, they're talking to three million people, maybe three point two.And there's some Twitstreamer—a Twitstreamer you've never heard of—talking to 14 million people!..[So] the fringe is now the mainstream, and the mainstream is now the fringe.
In that passage, Jones is describing an outcome which has been delivered by the "democratization of media." We're guessing that he doesn't intend for the term "Twitstreamer" to be viewed as a term of high praise.
Jones is describing the way our world now works "by the numbers." Under these new arrangements, the last shall be first and the first shall be last, as it says in a very old book!
According to Jones, "We [Democrats] woke up in a body bag on Election Day" because we hadn't come to terms with this change in the way information (and its opposite) now gets delivered.
"We got beat on platforms I never heard of," he says as he continues. "Twitch, Kick, Rumble. All these platforms sound like symptoms of somebody in the hospital, OK? Twitch, Kick, Rumble? What is it?"
The numbers get even more overwhelming as Jones cites the 48 million people who watched part of Joe Rogan's session with Candidate Trump. And then, he turns to this, the essence of his search:
"So guys, get out of my face," he says. "We had the wrong analysis. We didn't even have the conceptual framework to understand what was happening to us."
So Jones says, and at that point, Cillizza poses a question. When he does, Jones states the essence, at least to date, of his ongoing search:
CILLIZZA: How the hell did Donald Trump figure out the mainstream media is the fringe, and the fringe is now the mainstream?...How the hell was he, the 78-year-old guy who doesn't even have a computer and still like writes hand-written notes— How did he become the guy who cracked the code?JONES: ...The problem is, you have a framework in your mind, "How can Donald Trump? How can Donald Trump? How can Donald Trump?"Guys, can we cut it out? Donald Trump is not an idiot! Donald Trump—Let me just be very clear. Donald Trump is smarter than me, you, and all of his critics. You know how I know? Because he has the White House, the Senate, the House—CILLIZZA: Totally agree.JONES: —the Supreme Court, the popular vote. He has a massive media ecosystem bigger than the mainstream built around him and for him, and a religiously—a religious fervor in a political movement around him. And his best buddy is the richest person in the history of the world, and the most relevant Kennedy is with him.This dude is a phenomenon. He is the most powerful human on earth and in our lifetime. And we're still saying, "Well, how is this guy?"We look like idiots to ordinary people.CILLIZZA: You're totally right.
Is Jones "totally right" in that assessment? If you take him literally, we would largely say no. Otherwise, we'd strongly recommend that you consider what he's saying.
In some literal sense, is Donald J. Trump "smarter than all of his critics?" Taken in a literal sense, we wouldn't agree with anything resembling that assessment.
Also, we don't know if Candidate Trump actually figured anything out in the way Cillizza's question might seem to imply. It may be that someone else figured something out—or it may be that Trump simply stumbled into an approach which let him achieve a narrow win over an accidental candidate who was thrust into the race in late July of this very year.
We don't think of Candidate Trump as being "smart." At this site, we regard him principally as "disordered"—disordered in a way the mainstream press has agreed we must never discuss.
That said, does Jones really think that Donald J. Trump is smarter than everyone else? Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. It may just be his (visible) frustration speaking. We have no idea.
Whatever Jones may actually think, there's one more key part of the account he offers of his ongoing search. Around the 32-minute mark, we find him saying this:
JONES: Everything starts to come apart. All the old conventional ways of thinking and seeing have to be challenged.And what you have is, everybody's down on Trump. "He's a Big Dummy. He has a bunch of idiots around him." That's a lie! It's not true!He's not a Big Dummy. He doesn't have a bunch of idiots around him. And just because we don't understand it, that doesn't mean that he's dumb. If we don't understand it, that means that we're dumb!The first thing we have to acknowledge is, we got beat by something we don't understand. And then all these liberals are wandering around, "Well, I just don't understand it."Well, maybe because you're dumb and he's smart! Try that on! Because suddenly you're going to have lenses to say, "Well, how is he smart? How am I dumb?" Not, "I know he's dumb. Why are all these voters also dumb?"
With that, the gents confront the poison in the piece. We refer to the reflexive explanation, widely seen inside Blue America, which holds that Candidate Trump's 77.3 million voters are just stupid—or perhaps are something worse.
For ourselves, we wouldn't describe Candidate Trump as being "smart." Eventually, though, Jones toys with the most significant fruit of his search—with the possibility that those of us in Blue America have met the real Big Dummy, and the real Big Dummy right now might possibly be Us.
Why did people vote for Trump? Imagining it a different way, why did so many people vote against our own candidate? Or possibly even this:
Why did so many people decide to vote against Us?
Why did so many people decide to vote the other way? We think the possible reasons go on and on and on. We think the story dates back many years, all the way back to its start in the autumn of 65.
Why might decent people have voted for Candidate Trump? When we Blues can't name any possible reasons, could that suggest that we've met the problem, and the problem might include Us?
Next week: At long last, the (rather long) list
ReplyDelete"No candidate had ever been asked to run a presidential campaign with such a late start."
But that was the plan of our beloved Democrat party: to save our beloved Comma-la-la from being seen/listened to by the voters. Had our beloved Comma-la-la been viewed as presidential candidate any longer, she would've been laughed out of it.
Because there is such great significance to the passage of time.
"our beloved Democrat party"
DeleteBetter trolling please.
she got a late start because democrats didn't want to accept the fact that Joe was visibly diminished (and I am a lifelong democrat saying this, not some right wing troll). When Joe ran in 2020 he stated he was a one termer, and that his goal was to get trump out. He should have stuck to that.
ReplyDeleteThe other reasons, IMO, were the relentless drumbeat of immigration and inflation. Personally, I didn't see any negative impacts from either issue, and I think there was a ton of hyperbole surrounding both issues, but I assume a lot of Americans living paycheck to paycheck were impacted by inflation at least.
I think Americans also love an underdog and an outsider, and trump positioned himself as both. then yes, you have other reasons for some such as they are inherently racist and misogynist. Then you had the palestine issue which kept some away from Harris. And also, Harris was not the strongest candidate IMO (although she was the logical choice given the circumstances), if she was she would have won out in 2016. add it all up and we end up with Trump...
I am sure many of you disagree and that is OK. This is just how I see the issues from my limited perspective.
The WSJ has a piece out about Biden’s cognitive issues and says they were apparent in 2021.
DeleteShe got a late start but she shouldn't have been runnin.g. The time for Democrats to object to Biden was during the primaries (which Biden won). Democrats set aside their own process and suffered the consequences.
DeleteHarris did not run for president in 2016 because she was elected Senator from CA in that year. So, she DID win in 2016, the office she sought. As I recall, Trump didn't run against her in CA.
Your limited perspective should include some knowledge of history and actual facts.
Cecelia, no one thinks Biden had no issues. He has been assessed as having the signs of normal aging, not dementia. No one has said aging has no effects on people, just that he was still competent to do the job he has demonstrably been doing for the past 4 years. Will the WSJ include the opinions of those who have been working with Biden, and his own doctor's assessment? It should, to be fair.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:34am, the Democratic leadership would not have replaced Biden if he had a good chance of winning, Comma La had a strong possibility of winning. She could have been a tougher opponent than Biden. However, she was unable to distinguish herself from Joe, or really distinguish herself in general…and couldn’t bring the fresh change that so many people really wanted.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:38am, they interviewed staffers off the record. Yes, people were in complete denial of Biden’s cognitive decline, a decline that evident in 2021. In 2024, they were still vehemently denying it.
DeleteOf the two presidential candidates, only Biden released his health records. A specialist did evaluate his cognitive functioning and said he was fit to serve as president. The same is not true for Trump. I trust a doctor's opinion above that of the press, especially when there were fake videos intended to show Biden as doddering being published by media (which Somerby bought into) readily contradicted by the actual video showing that Biden was fine and behaving normally. I trust the word of the people who worked daily with Biden, including people who are not his staff, over right wing propaganda. That isn't denial. Biden's performance as president justifies the conclusion that he was not too old to serve.
DeleteOf course Biden is older each year. Duh! But being less able to ride a bike does not mean he cannot read and think well. Many elderly people retain their faculties until their bodies give out. Many do not. It is an individual thing. Trump is obviously demented but Biden is not. Experts say so and members of congress and foreign leaders and those he works with day-to-day all said Biden was doing fine. Only the NY Times and Nancy Pelosi and George Clooney (an actor?) said not, but they do not have the access or the motive to give a proper evaluation of Biden's abilities.
Biden should be thanked not reviled. I am ashamed of those on the left who are trying to blame him for losing to Trump when he was asked not to run, and showed exceptional dedication to the people by stepping aside (just as Al Gore showed concern for the unity of the country by not continuing to contest his election after the Supreme Court gave the election to Bush). Some men are larger than their offices and Biden is one of them.
Somerby is a major asshole to have jumped on this bandwagon, but what else would anyone here expect of him, given his other efforts on behalf of Trump and the alt right.
somerby is not alt right...
DeleteBiden would have eked out a win, there still exists too much sexism among the Dem electorate, and the Dem establishment are weak-kneed and more interested in their personal circumstance than that of the voters, essentially Republican-lite. It’s not the democratization of media that harmed the Democratic Party, it was the neoliberalism of Clinton, and Obama to a lesser degree.
DeleteNobody cares about what explains Republican voters, they are wounded people, their vote is baked in, so it’s irrelevant.
Anonymouse 11:17, Biden couldn’t get thru the first debate. He didn’t get angry, petulant, and defensive, he was incoherent, sounded physically weak. and looked like he wasn’t sure where he was.
DeleteBob didn’t make Biden an offer he couldn’t refuse in order to force him to step down. YOUR leadership did that.
Due credit to Cecelia: he/she/it can pack more lies in a 2 or 3-sentence paragraph than even DiC. YMMV
Deletemedsplat, well, have it your way. Everything went great for Biden. Smooth as silk. He’ll be in office longer than FDR.
Delete"National Search Underway for Even One Person who Voted for Elon Musk
ReplyDeleteDec 20
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (The Borowitz Report)—A nationwide search has begun to locate even one person who voted for Elon Musk, the leader of the manhunt announced on Friday.
The leader, Harland Dorrinson, said that searchers had fanned out across all fifty states but had yet to turn up a single Musk voter.
“Given that Mr. Musk is the most powerful person in the U.S. government, you would think it would be easy to find someone who voted for him,” he said. “Something weird is going on.”
Meanwhile, in Washington, Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) announced that billions of dollars could be saved by eliminating empathy."
https://www.borowitzreport.com/p/national-search-underway-for-even
--------------------------
Somerby is being silly with this. It is time for him to find something real to discuss. Harris isn't running any more.
To hang his hat on any Van Jones opinion is laughable.
DeleteDemocrats need to challenge their conventional ways of thinking and understand why people voted for Trump instead of dismissing them as stupid.
ReplyDeleteSomerby has not yet listed any actual reason why a red voter would have voted for Trump. Can you supply such a list?
DeleteOf course!
Delete(he did list a number of reason though)
DeleteStill waiting for that list...
DeleteAnonymouse 10:45am, has Bob ever said he was going to make such a list?
DeleteBob went a month straight wondering aloud on every blog how it is that Trump got elected again.
he actually listed out a bunch the other day if you read his article
DeleteBob, the King of Empty Promises, never has delivered the goods.
DeleteApparently he learned it from the likes of President Musk and his VP Trump.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deleteother as to this list. One anonymouse says that Bob listed a “bunch of reasons” for red voters to vote for Trump and an another anonymouse says that he hasn’t.
DeleteWhat do you want to bet that the “list of reasons for red voters to vote for Trump” is just Bob arguing that Democrats do nothing to try to win over people who aren’t already their constituents.
More charismatic candidates, such as Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg, chose not to run in Biden's place out of respect for the office and for Biden. There is this thing in the Democratic Party called integrity. It is very foreign to Republicans and to Somerby, but it constrains the actions of good decent people. It is why Kamala Harris didn't herself shove Biden aside (she could have allied with Pelosi and the NYTimes to do that) but only ran when Biden asked her to. There are worse outcomes than losing an election. One is losing your soul and spoiling your reputation, which is career-ending for Democrats, although obviously not for Republicans.
ReplyDeleteI place the blame squarely with the red voters who enabled Trump to buy, steal and grift his way back into office. In a strange twist of fate, they are now going to get from Trump exactly what they deserve. Somerby too, if they go after social security, as they are promising.
Anonymouse 10:44pm, Biden’s political foes didn’t make Biden step down. The Democratic leadership did.
DeleteDo you think that a politician has no political foes within the leadership? A political foe is anyone who opposes you. Look at Johnson's political foes in his own party. They are keeping him from passing a bill he negotiated (first as a bipartisan effort and then with Republicans) because of Trump's interference -- Trump is the leader of his own party.
DeleteThere is a lot of negative talk about Biden on the left, including people saying he shouldn't have tried to run again, even though he is the incumbent in a successful term and thus entitled to the nomination by tradition. If they wanted Biden to step aside, that leadership should have convinced him before the primaries. They didn't accomplish that, so now they want to blame Biden when it is their failure, not his.
Obama had a horrible first debate and went on to win the presidency. Biden wasn't given the chance to recover from an event that historically has no impact on voting in Nov. Biden had a cold, jet lag and fatigue, which are reasonable explanations beyond aging. Arguably, Pelosi and the NY Times should have let him continue, not pushed him aside. If Biden were reelected and proved unable to govern, there are mechanisms in place to deal with that, and that is why there is a VP. Instead the Dem "leadership" threw the election to Trump by not letting the election play out without interference.
Not all Democrats like the Democratic leadership. No one wants to say that some Dems perhaps stayed home because they wanted Biden instead of Harris, but that may have been the case. It was for me. I am not afraid of age. I think Trump looks ridiculous in spray tan and fake hair, trying to look young when he is as old as Biden (especially in terms of health). Now we have Musk controlling Trump (much as Putin has done) and no one voted for Musk. That's what you red voters did.
Anonymouse 11:08am, you’re in denial. If there had been any possible way to avoid a change in candidates in the last months of the campaign they would have gone with that.
DeleteYou do not know that this is true. It is your opinion. Calling someone "in denial" over a difference in opinion is another misuse of psychiatric technical terms, but what else is new? Harris polled better than other alternatives at the time. She couldn't win, what makes you think anyone else could have? You have no evidence. You don't change horses in midstream, as the saying goes. You don't switch presidents in the middle of a war, another political tradition. Biden didn't become old in 6 months -- that took a lifetime. If the party wanted a different candidate they should have mounted a challenge during the primaries. But Biden was too popular. It seems likely he would have won.
DeleteAll the dead people would've voted for him, definitely.
DeleteThis blog is dead.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:21am, everything you’re arguing buttresses the fact that changing candidates at the last minute was the worst thing that could have happened to the party and now you’re seeing reports coming out about how much effort was expended over four years in trying to hid Biden’s deficits.
DeleteDenial is the word for this. They kept telling themselves they could get him thru it until they couldn’t. As the psychologists say, denial ain't just a river in Egypt. I don’t know what they’d term the state of saying that everyone who was involved in or agreed with Biden’s decision to bow out is a racist. Probably just call it crazy.
Yet we still have the same situation.
DeleteIt’s obvious that Trump is cognitively out to lunch, and that unelected billionaires like Musk are the ones that are actually going to be running things.
Anonymouse 11:40am, you can only hope.
DeleteJones say he thinks he and (the mainstream media) look like idiots to people but imo they look like liars to people. They tried to gaslight people into thinking Biden was not getting to old etc. Trying to claim Trump claimed he was going to be a dictator etc. Either idiots or liars, people can go see with their own eyes what Trump said and when they do, they lose complete respect for the these people. The ability to gaslight worked really well for a hot minute but the began to backfire massively on these media people and the DNC. Now - they're pretty f*cked.
ReplyDeleteJones didn't gaslight anyone. People said Biden was functional (which he is), not that he was reverse-aging. The lying liars said that Trump was mentally competent when he obviously isn't (now he is obviously being manipulated by Musk). Are red voters unable to see what is happening to their own president-elect?
Delete@10:48 says the Dems are "pretty f*cked" but it isn't the Dems who need to be forming a competent government, solving the debt ceiling problem and keeping the govt open. Trump has already messed up that job of having a transition. All he has been able to do so far is collect money from billionaires for his inauguration ceremony (which he is mainly going to pocket for his own use). Anyone with pockets can grift. Where is the evidence that Trump is competent to govern now that he is elected? This is backfiring massively on Republicans, in public for everyone to see.
Jones says "We look like idiots to ordinary people." That's a problem for Democrats. I think they look like liars to ordinary people. Which is probably worse. Either way, Democrats are going to have to figure out a way to get ordinary people to not think they are idiots and or liars and to trust them.
DeleteBut, they may be able to just wait for Trump to fail and then assume they can slide right back in there with the same team and rhetoric that have used for the past 16 years. I could actually see them trying to do that. It would be shocking to watch.
Jones wasn't a force during the election. If Harris was barely known, how would anyone know Jones?
DeleteI agree that Democrats may look like idiots to Republicans. They are told we are idiots 24/7 on Fox News. Van Jones works to advance civil rights. Of course right wingers are going to find that repellent, but Jones was not important during campaigning.
I have heard no one say that Biden will run again in 2028. He is retiring. It will thus be a whole new team then, as it has been each election year. Does anyone think Obama had the same team as Hillary? This maligning of the Democrats today is making no sense. It seems like just another excuse for Somerby and his fans to bash Democrats, which is what you people do. Half of you cannot get your facts straight.
"That's a problem for Democrats. I think they look like liars to ordinary people. Which is probably worse. Either way, Democrats are going to have to figure out a way to get ordinary people to not think they are idiots and or liars and to trust them."
DeleteThey don't just look like liars. The are liars and scumbags.
It seems to me the Democrat party is finished. A new one will have to emerge, from scratch. And the Democrat functionaries will need to be banned from it.
"Why did people vote for Trump? Imagining it a different way, why did so many people vote against our own candidate? "
ReplyDeleteSomerby is accidentally right about this. It isn't that more people voted for Trump, but that Democrats didn't come out for Kamala Harris. Some of the reasons for that include racism and sexism (underlying that famous lack of enthusiasm for her), lack of knowledge about her positions on issues (because the press didn't cooperate by reporting them), and voter suppression and dirty tricks by the right wing (aided by Russia again). I haven't heard Somerby discuss any of those reasons even though others have mentioned them at length. Somerby is busy denying that racism and sexism exist. Harris did a good job of rising to the occasion. Democrats thought she was going to win (like HIllary) and stayed home instead of getting out the vote. At least that is the excuse they gave in 2016 when Trump first won. It sounds like an excuse for rejecting a black woman to me, for giving her less than their full support in a situation where Trump is an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
This isn't rocket science. Red voters loved hearing about how Haitians were eating pets. Blue voters heard that Kamala is a whore. What is there left to understand about the election?
Anonymouse 10:51am, and there was the ditsy VP pick and that as a campaigner, she sucks.
DeleteNo one says that except Republicans. Harris has been praised for doing as well as she did in such a short time. Objectively that is remarkable and she has been said to have run as nearly perfect a campaign as possible under the circumstances. Calling Harris ditsy doesn't change reality.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:28am, when asked, Harris couldn’t articulate how she would be the slightest bit different from Biden. On the other hand, Biden, if running, would have had to articulate what HE would do differently if he won the campaign again. Comma La didn’t do that because she couldn’t. She is not articulate enough or mentally capable enough to spontaneously handle such an interview.
DeleteWhy would you want to do different from what resulted in 12.6% GDP growth, record setting sustained low unemployment, adding 16 million jobs and a manufacturing boom?
DeleteIt was a gotcha question, Cecelia. There was no good answer she could have given. Everyone sees that, even imbeciles like you must realize it.
10:51 - Is it actually possible that you truly believe that Somerby has denied the very existence of racism and sexism?
Delete1:05 - They are just a dickhead trolling. Trolling their balls off!
DeleteAnonymouse 12:43pm is going to be so surprised when she turns on the tv to watch the inauguration and sees Trump.
DeleteOnly 16 million jobs, eh?
DeleteToo bad the Democrat Gestapo In NY, MA, and CA didn't temporarily kill more jobs in 2020. If they did, it could've been 20 million jobs. Hell, why not 50 million?
I am excited, I am sniffing my finger now.
I am Corby.
1:50 PM, you are such a ditz, you rarely make any sense. Why would I be surprised, shit-for-brains who voted for a maniac?
DeleteAnonymouse 2:21pm, right. You and Comma La both were not surprised. Bunch of dummies those voters. What could she do? Oh, well…
DeleteSomerby doubles down on Van Jones, a known grifter that spends so much time rubbing shoulders with right wing billionaires, one even gifted him $100 million dollars.
ReplyDeleteJones’ specialty is to be a token mouthpiece for whichever billionaire gives him the most juice.
Dems are done taking advice from their enemies, like Van Jones, since that actually is one of the ways “we got here”; Somerby’s dumb notions are incoherent and ridiculous, rendering him irrelevant.
Appearing on CNN = rubbing shoulders with billionaires.
DeleteAnonymices have spent three days trying to label Bob’s respect for Van Jones as being racism towards “the black guy”.
DeleteNow they’re giving up and showing Bob how racism is done.
Yo, Republicans, when your wives go out “shopping”, they’re actually hooking up (consensually) with Dem men, who, unlike you, don’t suffer from undersized and limp penises.
ReplyDeleteOf course y’all voted for a serial rapist/sexual predator, it’s the only way y’all get any action.
Who needs consent when you can just blame the victim?
The victim would be the wives. They’ve gone from bad to worse.
DeleteNo, I didn't vote for Biden.
Delete"Next week: At long last, the (rather long) list"
ReplyDeleteLet me make sure I understand. Our Host will hold the football, yeah? And then we come running up...
Dem Representative Jayapal explains her view of the Dems’ problems and how to fix them.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.newsweek.com/democrats-path-back-power-opinion-2003596