WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2025
...a fuzzy dispute broke out: As we recently admitted, we're so old that we can remember when major news orgs tried to untangle basic factual disputes about fundamental policy matters.
It's one of the horses we rode in on! Way back in 1995 and 1996, our major orgs were trying to referee this never-ending dispute:
In his GOP Medicare proposal, was Speaker Gingrich trying to cut the Medicare program? Or was he simply trying to slow the rate at which the program would grow?
Al Franken, still a comedian, solved that riddle in his book, Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot (and Other Observations). We explained it in a trio of posts, one of which Paul Krugman later linked to as the source for his own analysis of the question.
Cowed by threats from the newly ascendant Gingrich, mainstream journos never did manage to figure it out. But at least, back in those days and years, they tried and they tried and they tried.
Fast forward to today! With the zone being flooded anew every day, major orgs have largely stopped trying to fact-check, or to explain, fundamental policy matters. That leads to an intriguing report by Mediaite's Zachary Leenan.
What exactly do Democrats want in order to end the government shutdown? Yesterday, mid-afternoon, Senator Coons (D-Del.) appeared on the Fox News Channel with guest host Trace Gallagher.
What exactly do Democrats want? In this chunk of Leeman's report, we join the discussion in progress:
‘They Have Been Giving Health Care to Illegal Immigrants!’ Fox Anchor Brawls With Democrat Over Shutdown
[...]
Coons claimed he’s heard from doctors in his state who are “bracing for impact” over incoming “skyrocketing health insurance costs.” Democrats are currently in a standstill with Republicans over a continuing resolution to fund the government over Democrats’ demand that extensions of Affordable Care Act subsidies be included.
“You say, Senator, that you’ve heard from your doctors and they’re telling you about rising costs. We just heard from a doctor who also happens to be in the Senate, Bill Cassidy, who says your plan is going to drive costs up because you want to give health benefits to illegal immigrants, which by the way is true in a lot of cases,” Gallagher said.
Uh-oh! One the one hand, it's true! Democrats are insisting that "extensions of Affordable Care Act subsidies [must] be included" in an agreement to end the shutdown.
But at that point, up jumped Gallagher with a claim which viewers constantly hear on Fox News Channel programs. According to Gallagher, Democrats also "want to give health benefits to illegal immigrants!"
That's a common assertion at Fox. According to Leeman's report (videotape included), here's what happened next:
“That is not at all true,” Coons shot back, adding, “It is not legal to be enrolled in the Affordable Care Act or Medicare or Medicaid unless you’re in the United States legally.”
The two then sparred on the point of illegal immigrants receiving healthcare...
Friend, we're going to leave you right here! For ourselves, we still don't understand the issues which are involved in what happened next. And we've tried to fact-check those questions on more than a few occasions.
Explanations by various medical groups seem to contradict each other. Reading a welter of such reports reminds us of the old joke known as Goldberg's Law (source: Paul Reiser, mid-1980s):
The man with one watch always knows the time. The man with two watches is never quite sure.
Spoiler alert:
The California state program, Medi-Cal, instantly entered yesterday's dispute, as you can see at Mediaite. Our question would be this:
Who was actually right on what followed, Gallagher or Coons? It almost sounds like Coons backed down! But who was actually right about this particular point?
Alas! The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but we are a failing dual nation in which very few fundamental facts are understood and generally known.
Once they get you to believe in something as ridiculous as "God", they can make you believe anything.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but why is there something rather than nothing?
DeleteIf God wanted us to live in a merit-based society, he'd have given us a 100% Estate Tax rate.
DeleteWhy is there a God rather than no God?
DeleteBob's mental decline is very evident in this post. The facts in this matter are not hard to ascertain. This along with the performance of Biden at the end, and the felon the last ten years, demonstrates why we need age limits for the President. Old people like me and Bob and the last two Presidents (and Ronnie) will lose their cognitive shit and die. We just don't want to admit it.
ReplyDeleteI’m already demented.
DeleteI agree @3:24. I agree with me on every issue, but I would not want me to be President. While we're fantasizing, how about age limits for Representatives and Senators.
DeleteI agree with me, too.
DeleteTo evaluate the accuracy of the GOP claim that Democrats want to give "illegals" free healthcare, it's important to first fully understand the basis of that claim,
ReplyDeleteHere's an official White House statement that attempts to document the claim:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/10/fact-democrats-shut-down-government-over-free-healthcare-for-illegals/
And here's the summary statement:
FACT: Democrats’ proposal would result in nearly $200 billion spent on healthcare for illegal immigrants and other non-citizens over the next decade — enough to fund the entire Children’s Health Insurance Program.
(Emphasis added.)
The first thing to note is that the claim conflates "illegal" with "non-citizens." This is relevant, regardless of your position on funding policy.
The White House statement follows up with a list six provisions of the Working Families Tax Cut Act (aka the One Big Beautiful Bill) that would be repealed by the Democrats' proposed continuing resolution. The White House asserts that, together, these changes would cost $192 billion over 10 years.
However, these six provisions have little to nothing to do with benefits for people in the country illegally. Instead, they relate to the availability of healthcare for some non-citizens who are legally present in the country.
Any argument about the White House/House GOP claims that elides these basic facts is bald propaganda.
"is that the claim conflates "illegal" with "non-citizens." "
DeleteIt doesn't "conflate", Soros-monkey. It lists "illegal immigrants" and "other non-citizens" separately.
Are you denying that Democrats’ proposal would result in Medicaid paying, in certain situations, for medical services to illegal immigrants?
This is a yes or no question.
"The White House asserts that, together, these changes would cost $192 billion over 10 years."
DeleteFor context, that's $19B/yr. So as taxpayers we have a stark choice this year: Invest $20B in Argentinian pesos, which are plumetting in value, or $19B in the health of American residents.
First, you have to stop lying about who is an "illegal."
DeleteThe White House statement says this:
FACT: Democrats’ proposal would once again allow those improperly granted asylum and parole under Biden’s open borders scheme to receive Medicaid.
As we seem to agree, the White House's statement calls out "illegal immigrants" and "other non-citizens" separately.
Which category do "those improperly granted asylum and parole" fall into? Republicans routinely lump them in with "illegals" even though they hold documentation of legal presence in the US.
A person who in the country with authorization isn't "illegal." So no, this provision does not result in Medicaid paying for medical care for illegal immigrants.
Also:
Delete"It doesn't 'conflate', Soros-monkey. It lists 'illegal immigrants' and 'other non-citizens' separately."
But like you, the White House statement and Congressional Republicans like to roll up the total bill and attribute it all to so-called "illegals," quietly sweeping "other non-citizens" (who are not in the country illegally) under the proverbial rug.
This is why it's so hard to argue with liars.
DeleteOkay. For the alternatively gifted:
Most American citizens aren't eligible for Medicaid.
When an American citizen ineligible for Medicaid gets medical services (either emergency or otherwise) Medicaid will not pay for it. The citizen himself is expected to pay, either via his private insurance or out of his pocket.
Illegal immigrants -- criminal border crossers and individuals who overstayed their visas -- are also ineligible for Medicaid. Should they, however, have the privilege to have their medical services paid for by Medicaid?
It's a yes-no question.
Those ineligible for Medicaid still receive emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Other non-emergency treatment becomes medical debt.
DeleteA squatter illegally breaks into your house and starts living there. Should you be responsible for his/her emergency medical care?
DeleteSomerby doesn’t seem to understand that the major news orgs are Republican now.
ReplyDeleteAnd he refuses to learn.
DeleteIs this true? Who knows? Is it just a single foulup? Who knows? FWIW here's the news
ReplyDeleteUnited States Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services Jim O’Neill on Wednesday posted the case of 38-year-old illegal alien Jose Trinidad Arreola-Ortega of Mexico, who was convicted of raping a young child in Kentucky.
Despite the conviction, Arreola-Ortega was able to secure nearly $7,300 in taxpayer-funded Medicaid benefits.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/10/22/hhs-illegal-alien-child-rapist-received-thousands-in-taxpayer-funded-medicaid-benefits/