DOGMA SPREADS: Did misogyny defeat Candidate Warren?

MONDAY, MARCH 9, 2020

Maddow's weird lament:
Was Candidate Warren forced from the race by misogyny and sexism?

Misogyny and sexism on the part of the press? On the part of Democratic voters?

Except in the realm where dogma spreads, those are hard questions to answer. Presumably, some people undervalued or even disregarded Warren on the basis of gender. It's also true that some people favored her on that basis.

On balance, how did all these judgments shake out? There's no real way to know that. That said, Candidate Warren didn't lose by a couple of votes. She ended up losing to Candidates Biden and Sanders by a large number of votes, even in her home state.

Candidate Warren didn't come close, as Candidate Gore and Candidate Clinton did in recent general elections. Despite this fact, Warren's departure from the race has occasioned a wave of keening and wailing which draws back the curtain on the highly irrational our liberal thought leaders perform.

How irrational has the keening and wailing been? We plan to explore that question during the bulk of the week.

For today, consider what happened when Warren was interviewed by Rachel Maddow. Warren did the full hour last Thursday night. At one point, Maddow made this strange presentation:
MADDOW (3/5/20): I would like to ask you about the elephant in the room, which is a conversation you've had a number of different ways, and you talked about it eloquently today, and I thought in pretty blunt terms today.

I think that a lot of women around the country right now feel differently about you dropping out. Whether or not they were supporting you specifically for president, you leaving the race feels different.

If Hillary Clinton can't win when she gets the nomination, and then you can't get the nomination, and neither can Kamala Harris and neither can Amy Klobuchar and neither can Kirsten Gillibrand, I mean, I think part of what's going on today is that women around the country are like, "OK, honestly, you know? If it's not, if it's not going to be any of them, let's get real."

Is it just, is it just that it can't be any woman ever? Are we just going to run, you know, white men in their late 70s against each other, both parties, and that's all we can agree to do?

I think there's a feeling that your campaign ending is very specific to you and it also feels a little bit like a death knell in terms of the prospects of having a woman for president in our lifetimes.
To watch this presentation, click here.

Maddow's presentation makes little apparent sense. And Maddow was sold to us, by the network, as Our Own Rhodes Scholar!

In her presentation, Maddow is looking back on a nomination race in which six women and something like three million men took part. Judged by traditional standards, only four of the women were fundamentally qualified—the four women Maddow named.

(How many of the men? Ignoring issues of age, we'd say more than a dozen.)

Four women battled six million men. When it turns out that the last two candidates standing are men, Maddow makes a bizarre suggestion. She suggests this means that "it can't be any woman ever!"

She suggests this means that the two parties are just going to run "two white men...against each other" until the end of time. This is a very strange thing to say, especially if you consider the history of recent presidential elections.

In fact, the two parties haven't run "two white men...against each other" since Campaign 2004 (Bush v. Kerry). The last three White House campaign have demographed like this:
Demographics of last four White House elections
2004: White man versus white man
2008: Black man versus white man
2012: Black man versus white man
2016: White man versus white woman
If this campaign continues as now seems inevitable, it will be the first time in sixteen years that we've had "two white men...against each other." Yet there was Maddow, suggesting this somehow means that no one but white men will ever be nominated again.

(For the record, Candidate Trump won't be "in his late 70s." When our sachems start keening and wailing, they tend to embellish at will.)

Why in the world would Rachel Maddow make such a strange presentation? Does she actually think what she and others seem to think:

Does she actually think that if four women run, and none of them wins, this means the whole thing has somehow been rigged, with women denied their rights as part of some ongoing scam?

Surely, Maddow can't think that. And yet, this is the attitude which has poured forth from many of our tribal tribunes, driven along by the apparent belief that Warren was the greatest candidate who ever appeared on a stage.

In fact, Warren was an awful candidate, in a wide array of ways. Or at least, so it seems to us, for reasons we'll explain later in the week.

It doesn't seem to occur to our tribal tribunes that, just because Warren appealed to them, she wasn't necessarily going to appeal to everyone else. That is the essence of solipsism, an attribute our hapless leaders have long possessed in spades.

In what ways was Warren an awful candidate? Let's set that aside for later. For today, let's focus on the oddness of Maddow's presentation.

Maddow's lament made little sense, but neither did Warren's reaction. Here's the way that went:
MADDOW: Is it just, is it just that it can't be any woman ever? Are we just going to run, you know, white men in their late 70s against each other, both parties, and that's all we can agree to do?

I think there's a feeling that your campaign ending is very specific to you and it also feels a little bit like a death knell in terms of the prospects of having a woman for president in our lifetimes.

WARREN: Oh God, please no. That can't be right.

MADDOW: You know what I'm talking about.

WARREN: I know exactly what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. This cannot be the right answer.
Warren was worried too.

Like a virus, a pleasingly self-pitying dogma can spread all through a community. On the leadership level, our liberal tribe is utterly hapless. We're in the hands of the infirm, infected and lame.

That said, as people like Maddow start spreading this virus; as a sense of hopelessness infects our tribe; the keening and wailing of these professional victims points the way to a possible future:

In this highly possible future, we will "have a woman for president in our lifetimes." That woman's name will be President Mikki Haley, and tribunes like Maddow will be selling us new sets of dogma when that day arrives.

Viruses kill, but so does cant. Our leadership is hopelessly daft. We liberals need to grasp this fact, but there's little chance that we will.

Tomorrow: BREAKING NEWS! Most candidates don't win!

38 comments:

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  2. "Presumably, some people undervalued or even disregarded Warren on the basis of gender."

    When those "some people" are members of the press or debate monderators, this bias amounts to more than just a lost or gained vote here and there, cancelled out by pro-Warren voters.

    Somerby doesn't understand what sexism in politics is.

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  3. “That woman's name will be President Mikki Haley”

    He can’t even spell her name right...

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  4. "Candidate Warren didn't come close, as Candidate Gore and Candidate Clinton did in recent general elections."

    Candidate Gore had just served two terms as VP, so he had massive name recognition. Candidate Clinton served two terms as First Lady, then a term as Secretary of State, so she too had massive name recognition. Even Bernie Sanders had previously run a national campaign, and Biden was a two term VP.

    Warren was Senator from Massachusetts. She did better than any of the other first-time candidates. Hers was an uphill battle that was impeded by her treatment by the press.

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    Replies
    1. You don't think that Sanders and Biden have been "mistreated" by the press? If so, I think your bias is misleading you.

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  5. Poking women where it hurts isn't going to gain any votes for Sanders, Somerby you ass.

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  6. "In fact, Warren was an awful candidate, in a wide array of ways. "

    But the only way Somerby can ever think of is that Pocahontas thing that Trump keeps harping on.

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  7. Maddow is quoted as saying:

    "Is it just, is it just that it can't be any woman ever? Are we just going to run, you know, white men in their late 70s against each other, both parties, and that's all we can agree to do?"

    These are questions, not statements. Can't Somerby tell the difference? Somerby says:

    "She suggests this means that the two parties are just going to run "two white men...against each other" until the end of time."

    No, she doesn't suggest this. She asks Warren a question about it, because she is interested in Warren's view of women's future prospects as candidates.

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  8. "WARREN: I know exactly what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. This cannot be the right answer.
    Warren was worried too. [Somerby says]"

    Seems to me, Warren denied the truth of what Maddow suggested, she was saying no to it. There is nothing about this that suggests Warren was agreeing or worrying about what Maddow suggested. She said the opposite. She said "Oh God, Please No."

    But Somerby wants to portray Warren as worried. So who cares what she actually said.

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  9. When did Warren or Maddow ever suggest that Nikki Haley should be president? Or that she would be acceptable to Democrats?

    Now Somerby is just making stuff up.

    This is mean-spirited. He is, in effect, saying:

    "If you bitches want a female president so badly, you can have Nikki Haley. That'll shut you up."

    Do we need any further evidence of what sexism looks like when it comes from the bros? Remember that Somerby is supposedly liberal. He is supposed to be open to the idea of a female president, to want to support women's civil rights issues -- one of which is the FACT that we have never had a female President, despite the FACT that women have run for president since before they gained the vote (which, by the way, was after black men had held the right to vote since 1870, 50 years before women gained the right to vote). So, no, we don't consider Obama's election to be progress for women. It is more of the same old sexism, especially since he set aside Hillary in order to pursue his own ambitions. As someone else has noted here, we could have had two terms of Hillary, then elected Obama instead of Trump. But he couldn't wait and men wouldn't tolerate a female president, just as they stopped giving Warren the time of day when she started gaining traction with her campaign.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stolen fro the GOP's, "If you want a black man on the SCOTUS, you can have Clarence Thomas. That'll shut you up" files.

      Delete
    2. Reagan was the Prez but I voted for Shirley Chisholm.

      Delete
    3. h 9, 2020 at 1:01 PM
      Stolen fro the GOP's, "If you want a black man on the SCOTUS, you can have Clarence Thomas. That'll shut you up" files.”

      How about a breathtakingly condescension that has actually been expresed by the decidedly not-GOP-supporting ...brilliant Amoymouse10:22am:

      We Democrats support civil rights, we want a liberal woman as president, and a black guy who gets in the way of that should sit himself down and wait fhis damn turn.

      Delete
    4. ‘"If you bitches want a female president so badly, you can have Nikki Haley. That'll shut you up."’

      No, what Somerby is suggesting is that elections and candidates are about politics and come with the caveats of political considerations.

      All the high-minded appeals and lofty speeches about feminism and fairness and heartbroken women cheated of a candidate who looks like them (caveat- thinks exactly as a specific group of women thinks) are made under the very dynamic you disappear in your moralizing - the political backroom of wheeling and dealing, compromises of expedience, and the caveats — all necessary considerations in promoting an ideology.

      The liberal Somerby is not saying “If you bitches want a female president so badly, you can have Nikki Haley [a Republican]. That’ll shut you up.”

      What a dumb and dishonest formulation.

      TDH means that in the course of all your dramatic moralizing and finger-pointing, be aware that the rest of us are aware that you well-know the facts of the world. You know and accept that expediency is the coin of the ideological/ political realm, because you must. You aver and champion this whenever it suits your goals.

      Know that we know, that you understand politics and are consummate political animals, even as you’re kicking mud at many of your male peers, at your leaders in the trenches, and your fellow citizens-all and sundry.

      Delete
    5. Hoes gotta vote too.

      Delete
  10. Maddow says:

    "Are we just going to run, you know, white men in their late 70s against each other, both parties, and that's all we can agree to do?"

    Then Somerbys says she isn's making any sense. But that is exactly what we are now doing. It seems to me, she is just pointing out what is obviously happening.

    Black people would have the right to say the same thing about the rejection of the black candidates, Kamala Harris and Cory Booker. I have been hearing commentators ask why there cannot be a female candidate or a person of color nominated. They then go on and say that no one seems to want to take any chances of letting Trump back into office. But that hinges on the assumption that a black or female candidate would be harder to put into office than an old white man. It isn't clear whether that is true or not, and that is where some bias creeps in, the assumption that a diverse candidate cannot win as easily.

    Somerby himself suggested this on Saturday, with his discussion of the charisma needed to transcend the stigma of race or gender. Except he didn't put it in those terms. He seems to think that charisma is a qualification for office. What a moron Somerby is.

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    Replies
    1. Look who's talking!

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    2. Um, well, you were, anon 4:56, at the moment you implored us to look.

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  11. What did Warren actually say in response to Maddow’s question? I mean, the link to the video is in Somerby’s post, so his characterization of her looks spectacularly foolish.

    She said, no, someday a woman *will* be president. You have to deal with the challenges and persist. It will happen when it happens. Just as we couldn’t elect a Catholic until we did (JFK), couldn’t elect a black man until we did. She didn’t even put it in partisan terms.

    That sounds...exactly right.

    But Somerby wants to do exactly what Warren described the other day: label both Warren and Maddow as “whiners” when they dare to discuss sexism. And that’s all that Somerby’s mountain of words boils down to.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You keep ending sentences in prepositions today.

      Delete
    2. Today or any day, nothing to worry about.

      Delete
  12. “Mr. Trump repeatedly attacked Ms. Fiorina in the run-up to the 2016 Republican primary, disparaging her appearance and saying that her voice gave him a “massive headache.” Asked during a debate about Mr. Trump’s comments about her looks, she said: “I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.”

    “Ms. Fiorina said she had voted for Mr. Trump in 2016 and that she had been “very disappointed” with his tenure. Pressed on whether she would vote for him again, she said: “Honestly, it depends who the Democrats put up, and I won’t go any further than that.””

    Carly Fiorina. Lifelong Republican. Woman. Whiner.

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  13. “Mikki” Haley president? No chance. We can see what the GOP wants, and it ain’t Mikki.

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  14. There are tons of post-mortems of Warren’s campaign in the media with differing views. Even Maddow was just asking a question about sexism; she wasn’t assuming it was true.

    It seems legitimate to at least ask the question and discuss it, and there is nothing “tribal” about that. Are there those who say it was solely due to sexism? Sure. There are also those who say it plays no role at all. But that’s all a part of the discussion.

    The reaction to this, from those who feel offended or scolded by this kind of discussion, remains mystifying to me.

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  15. “DOGMA SPREADS: Did misogyny defeat Candidate Warren?”

    At what point in the linked video did either Maddow or Warren say that misogyny defeated Warren?

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  16. “it also feels a little bit like a death knell in terms of the prospects of having a woman for president in our lifetimes.”

    That can certainly be true, as a feeling. That isn’t equivalent to saying that misogyny defeated Warren.

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  17. Maybe Warren was a terrible candidate. I didn’t think so, and, apparently, that makes me a stupid tribal liberal. Somerby will continue to expound upon why she was indeed objectively so terrible.

    But she plays an important role in Democratic politics, and may hold some cards in the upcoming (potential) shitshow of the convention. That alone would prompt anyone who cares about unifying the party and defeating Trump to maybe not go on and on about how terrible she is.

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  18. A related question that could be asked is: "What is the effect of Sanders and Bloomberg being Jewish?" IM(selfish)HO, this question deserves as much attention as the effect of sexism on Warren's campaign. For some reason, possible antisemitism is ignored by the media.

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  19. "Did misogyny defeat Candidate Warren?"

    Whoa, what a regrettable lack of imagination.

    Misogyny, racism, the deplorables, the Russkies, the media, deplorable Russkie agent "Bernie" Sanders. And that's just off the top of my head.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's not your "head".
      Aim halfway down your backside, if you want to know where your "facts" come from.

      Delete
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