HUMAN REASON AND ITS DISCONTENTS: Fifty-six years after Wittgenstein's book...

TUESDAY, MARCH 17, 2020

...a very smart person wrote this:
Who is Mario Livio? We're asking for a reason.

Any sensible answer would start with this—by the norms of our culture and of our world, Mario Livio is very smart.

Who is Mario Livio? In 2009, he published Is God a Mathematician?, his latest general interest book on mathematics.

The book was published by Simon and Schuster, a major publisher; an excerpt was posted by NPR, a very high-end news org. Livio turned 64 that year. On his book's dust jacket, the capsule bio said this:
Mario Livio is a senior astrophysicist and head of the Office of Pubic Outreach at the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.
Livio isn't quite the apocryphal "rocket scientist," but he comes pretty darn close. At present, the leading authority on his remarkable life offers this overview:
Mario Livio (born 1945) is an Israeli-American astrophysicist and an author of works that popularize science and mathematics. For 24 years (1991-2015) he was an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute, which operates the Hubble Space Telescope. He has published more than 400 scientific articles on topics including cosmology, supernova explosions, black holes, extrasolar planets, and the emergence of life in the universe.

His book on the irrational number phi, The Golden Ratio: The Story of Phi, the World's Most Astonishing Number (2002), won the Peano Prize and the International Pythagoras Prize for popular books on mathematics.
Livio is an astrophysicist, but he isn't just any astrophysicist. He's an astrophysicst who helped run the Hubble for several decades, while writing scholarly pieces on supernova explosions and extrasolar planets, plus award-winning popular texts.

Let's state what's blindingly obvious. By any normal cultural metric, Livio is very smart. Indeed, that's the whole point of what will follow this week. If Livio wasn't very smart; if his 2009 book wasn't published by a major house and excerpted by one of our allegedly smartest news orgs; then what follows this week would be of little real interest.

The person in question is very smart. His book was singled out for special attention by one of our most highly-regarded upper-end news orgs.

That said, conceptual problems already appear on page one of the book, where the NPR excerpt starts.

Starting on page one of his book, Livio alternately claims that mathematics doesn't just "describe" the universe. Mathematics also "explains" and even "guides" the universe.

Already, it seems to us that we might have wandered out over our skis a bit! But by page two, Livio is writing a passage we marveled at, once again, just this past Sunday morning, our last such morning at a local Starbucks as the plague advanced.

The passage in question is sitting right there as part of the NPR except. On page 2 of his book, Livio—an extremely smart person—writes the following passage, and NPR thought we should read it. The italics are Livio's own:
LIVIO (page 2): Millennia of impressive mathematical research and erudite philosophical speculation have done relatively little to shed light on the enigma of the power of mathematics. If anything, the mystery has in some sense even deepened. Renowned Oxford mathematical physicist Roger Penrose, for instance, now perceives not just a single, but a triple mystery. Penrose identifies three different "worlds": the world of our conscious perceptions, the physical world, and the Platonic world of mathematical forms....
By any normal cultural metric, Roger Penrose is also an extremely smart person. That said, let's briefly consider the view Livio ascribes to this second extremely smart man.

According to Livio, Penrose "identifies" three different "worlds." (The second set of scare quotes are Livio's own.) He then names these three different "worlds."

We're only on page 2 of the book, but the fog is growing quite thick.

Most of us would have little trouble explaining what a person typically means when he refers to "the physical world." Indeed, as he continues, Livio provides an easy definition of same:
"The second world [in that list of three] is the one we normally refer to as physical reality. Real flowers, aspirin tablets, white clouds, and jet airplanes reside in this world, as do galaxies, planets, atoms, baboon hearts, and human brains."
That seems, and is, rather easy. According to Livio, "the physical world" is the one we normally refer to as "physical reality." (!)

According to Livio, the physical world includes all sorts of physical objects—sticks and stones and water and soil and even aspirin tablets. This is the easy part of the muddle which already exists on page two.

We'll guess that confusion rarely arises when people, as part of normal parlance, refer to "the physical world." But according to Livio, Penrose also "identifies" two other "worlds." As you can see if you look at the NPR excerpt, confusion rises around us quickly as Livio attempts to describe and discuss these two other "worlds."

As we continues this week, we'll look at some of the things Livio says as he describes, or attempts to describe, Penrose's belief. In our view, Livio's presentation disappears into the world of conceptual confusion as this point, never to re-emerge.

Livio is very smart; so, of course, is Penrose. But whenever we encounter a presentation like the one Livio offers, a single thought pops into our heads:

Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations was finally published in 1953, six years after Wittgenstein's death. It's amazing to think that, some 56 years later, a very smart person could produce the conceptual chaos Livio does, with an upper-end news org like NPR singling it out for special attention and admiration.

Philosophical Investigations appeared in 1953. In 2009, work like this was still being produced and hailed at the upper end of our frequently primitive discourse.

Four years later, Professor Horwich would say that the academy had thrown Wittgenstein away because he'd said that their work tended to be "the misbegotten products of linguistic illusion and muddled thinking." (See yesterday's report.)

Horwich said the academy had discarded Wittgenstein and his work. As our series continues along, we expect to suggest the possibility that they probably shouldn't have done that.

Tomorrow: As told to us by NAME WITHHELD in the winter of 67-68

50 comments:

  1. We have a pandemic with a doofus in the White House and your discussing Wittgenstein?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ""He is being the kind of leader...that people need and want and yearn for in times of crisis and uncertainty. This was remarkable from the President of the United States." Dana Bash, CNN, on Trump.

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  2. Watching "mentally ill" Trump and his team deliver a perfect Coronavirus news conference and imagining dementia ridden Biden trying to handle this crisis. Somerby never mention's Biden's mental illness and falsely claims Trump suffers from it. Not credible. Trump voters aren't surprised by his effectivenss. He will be re-elected.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Speak up. I can't hear you over the din of anti-government, socialism hating, Right-wingers crying out for Daddy government to save them.

      Delete
    2. Intelligent people discern between emergency measures and business as usual. Government bureaucracy failed and private sector profit motive will pull us out of this. Good thing less regulation has produced the wealth to deal.

      Delete
    3. Screw Boeing and the airlines. If they hadn't wasted their money on lattes and avocado toast, they wouldn't need government handouts.
      Bailing them out will just make them lazier.

      Delete
    4. Did you hear the one about the free-market libertarian who truly hated socialism?
      Me neither.

      Delete
    5. Love the use of "intelligent people" as a euphemism for "people showing their entire ideology is built on bullshit".

      Delete
    6. 4:17,
      I'm holding off on praising less regulation, until David in Cal's grandkids die from drinking polluted water.

      Delete
    7. Anon @6:25 - I hope your comment means that you will make political judgments based on actual results. So, now that Trump has been President for 3 years, has there been an increase in people poisoned by drinking polluted water? AFAIK there is no such increase.

      Delete
    8. 9:15,
      The increase is slight. Unlike the increase in U.S. Presidents who have filed multiple bankruptcies and/ or committed treason against the United States of America.

      Delete
    9. Happy the President is a Socialist Day to all of you.

      Delete
  3. Somerby is back on this kick again. He quotes:

    "an author of works that popularize science and mathematics"

    Books that popularize are intended for general audiences and cannot go into the depth necessary to avoid the kinds of criticisms Somerby offers. The readers don't have the necessary background and the book doesn't have the space to prepare them.

    But Somerby takes this opportunity to make himself feel smarter by attacking Livio on his popular work, not his scholarly papers. That makes Somerby a ridiculous figure.

    If Somerby craves the better explanations, he should skip these books for popular audiences and go to the source, read the books behind these popular trade books. But he cannot do that because he doesn't want to acquire the background needed to understand them.

    Somerby likes to mock professors, but they, at least, read the foundational works in order to go on and read the tougher stuff. It is what takes them 10 years+ to get their doctorates. It is hard work and there are no shortcuts, not even in books written by Livio.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I am trying to get the distinction between the Physical World and the World of our Conscious Perceptions> Here are two somewhat related ideas.

    1. Flaws -- The Physical World is real. Our Conscious Perceptions are inaccurate, due to flaws in our consciousness.

    2. Limitations -- Many parts of the Physical World are not perceptible to us. E.g., physicists can deduce the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, but we are unable to perceive them. in fact, the universe is so immense that we are unable to perceive most of it, although it does have physical reality.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We can only know the physical world through our senses. Accepting that there is an independent physical world is a matter of community agreement, scientific consensus. You can make measurements of the physical world that are consistent across observers, but even those measurements are perceived through our senses, and thus are part of conscious perceptions. So you can argue about the actual separateness of the physical world and our conscious world.

    There is no way to verify whether our conscious perceptions are inaccurate or not, since there is no direct experience of the physical world except through our senses, which are perceived in consciousness. This is true even if you use instruments, but not true of mathematics which do not rely on sensory perception but do rely on consciousness (thinking).

    Livio will perhaps argue that the existence of dark matter etc is predicted by mathematics and must exist in order for mathematics to be true. Measurement is the application of numbers to the physical world. There is always a gap between the numbers and the thing being measured. Not sure how Livio would deal with that gap. It suggests that the physical world is separate from the mathematical world. But again, if we cannot perceive the physical world, how do we know?

    Not sure why Somerby is having trouble with this, since the Greeks discussed it and he surely encountered Greek philosophy in his stint as a philosophy major at Harvard. He also seems fixated on these mathematical Platonists (recall his attack on Godel).

    Maybe his favorite professor hated these Platonists so Somerby does too. He doesn't make any arguments of his own, only vague references to "muddles," so it is hard to know what Somerby's objection is.

    If you decide to test the existence of the physical world independent of our sensory experience, I suggest that you not try it from the top of a tall building, or while cooking. Stay safe. This idiocy is why I switch my major from philosophy and stayed switched.

    If you are a computer scientist, it is necessary to consider the physical world in which your computer programs will run, and also important to remember that not all people see colors the same way, so that you can design screen displays that will be usable for all. You don't necessarily need any math to do that, but engineers probably do. So, I think the existence of three worlds is demonstrable in every day life and won't trouble Livio's readers as much as Somerby claims.

    ReplyDelete
  6. “Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations was finally published in 1953, six years after Wittgenstein's death. It's amazing to think that, some 56 years later, a very smart person could produce the conceptual chaos Livio does”

    First of all, an underlying assumption here is that Wittgenstein is perfectly clear and guilty of no conceptual chaos himself. Also, one has to assume that Horwich has correctly interpreted or paraphrased Wittgenstein, since Horwich, and not Wittgenstein, is Somerby’s source.

    Another objection is that Livio’s views aren’t necessarily chaotic or unclear, Somerby’s assertion notwithstanding. It doesn’t help that he continually and snidely calls Livio “smart” in an obviously sarcastic way.

    Lastly, one has to believe that Wittgenstein, even if one perfectly understands his ideas, is the last word on philosophy or mathematics, and that no further dissent from his views is allowed.

    And any dissent will be mocked by Somerby.

    ReplyDelete
  7. “Horwich said the academy had discarded Wittgenstein and his work.”

    Somerby took courses at Harvard specifically devoted to Wittgenstein. Today, over 50 years later, there are still courses devoted specifically to Wittgenstein. Few other philosophers are accorded that honor.

    Horwich’s assertion doesn’t seem plausible, and, hence, Somerby’s premise is faulty.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Always up for another look at Platonism - hopefully this one will acknowledge that analysis of the "reality" of matter is every bit as fraught as that of numbers (or universals, or whatever you prefer). And after allowing for rhetoric, I will simply observe that as a matter of fact, 1953 did not mark the end of all concurrence with whatever it was that Plato was onto with respect to the reality of universals (great as Wittgenstein surely is).

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Who is Mario Livio? We're asking for a reason."

    He is an elderly astrophysicist, no longer doing astrophysics, who is doing PR for Hubble and trying to support himself writing trade books.

    Why give him a hard time?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because Livio says that numbers reside in their own world that is apart from the physical world that numbers influence via geometry and the other branches of mathematics.

      Somerby thinks that Livio is not using the word “world” as a metaphor.

      Delete
    2. And why doesn't deadrat swoop in to ask Cecelia how she knows what Somerby thinks?

      Delete
    3. I suspect that’s because deadrat has read Somerby’s previous forays into Wittgenstein.

      Not that doing this automatically gives you a clear picture of what TDH thinks. I still don’t know what Somerby was saying about Democrats and sexist epithets towards HRC or Chris Matthews and sexist epithets.

      Delete
    4. Post my name, and I appear in your comment thread.

      Here's what TDH says:

      As you can see if you look at the NPR excerpt, confusion rises around us quickly as Livio attempts to describe and discuss these two other "worlds."

      It's a fair inference that an unironic and non-joking statement reflects the speaker's thoughts. Now, maybe Cecelia is wrong, Livio is speaking metaphorically, and TDH thinks the metaphor is nonsense. But, professor, she's a long distance from your mind-reading conclusions that TDH thinks the opposite of what he writes.

      Delete
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  11. No, dear Bob, not by any normal cultural metric eggheads are smart.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I knew Trump would embrace socialism, as soon as he said there would never be socialism under his watch.
      The utter failure is like the Mush from "Bronx Tales".

      I was just talking with someone who said, "Trump is the biggest loser ever". Can't say I can disagree.
      Sad.

      Delete
    2. Anonymouse 5:15am, would you typify Canada closing its borders during this crisis as that government embracing nationalism?

      Delete
  12. Here is some actual data exploring whether sexism affected Warren's campaign:

    https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/3/5/sexism-one-reason-why-warren-didnt-do-better

    ReplyDelete
  13. Corby, this piece is very much worth a read.

    It addresses the Schaffner and Green study further down in the article.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/608029/

    ReplyDelete

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  17. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I had been rejected by my husband after five(5) years of marriage just because another woman had cast a spell on him and he left me with 2 kids to suffer. One day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how he help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a chance he told me that my husband is under spell, he said that he will help me and after 7 days that i will have my husband back. i believed he and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster has the power to bring lovers back now my husband is back with after 7 days . he also gave me a financial magic ring to boost my business and removed bad luck. i am now happy with my husband. Thanks you Dr. love please contact him at (lovespelldoctor0@gmail.com)

    ReplyDelete
  18. i want to tell the world about the great and mighty spell caster called Dr .osofo my husband was cheating on me and no longer committed to me and our kids when i asked him what the problem was he told me he has fell out of love for me and wanted a divorce i was so heart broken i cried all day and night but he left home i was looking for something online when i saw an article how the great and powerful Dr osofo have helped so many in similar situation like mine he email address was there so i sent him an email telling him about my problem he told me he shall return back to me within 48hrs i did everything he asked me to do the nest day to my greatest surprise my husband came back home and was crying and begging for me to forgive and accept him back he can also help you contact him on Email ( osofo.48hoursolutioncenter@gmail.com ) whasAPP him +2349065749952

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  19. KloudWIFI truly believes that reliable, fast networks have been the game changers in driving innovation, productivity and instant collaboration supported by the relentless growth of convenient cloud-hosted applications. Even with a powerful, proven network infrastructure like Cisco Meraki and Ekahau, the end user experience can only be truly optimized by considering all the internal and external factors to the end user experiences. wireless lan solutions partner in Hyderabad

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  20. PROFESSIONAL SPELL CASTER WHO CAN HELP YOU WITH LOVE-SPELL TO GET YOUR EX LOVER BACK URGENTLY AFTER BREAKUP/DIVORCE EVEN IF YOUR SITUATION SEEMS HOPELESS! CONTACT: INFINITYLOVESPELL@GMAIL.COM IS CERTAINLY THE BEST SPELL CASTER ONLINE AND HIS RESULT IS 100% GUARANTEE.. 

    After 3 Years in a relationship with my Boyfriend, my Boyfriend started going out with other girls and showing me cold love, on several occasions he threatens to broke-up with me if I dare question him about his affair with other girls, I was totally devastated and confused until an old friend of mine told me about a spell caster on the internet DR GREAT who help people with their relationship and marriage problem by the powers of love Spells, At first I doubted If such thing ever exists but decided to give it a try, When I contact him, he told me everything I needed to do and I did and he helped me cast a Love Spell and within 28Hours my boyfriend came back to me and started apologizing, now he has stopped going out with girls and he is with me for good and for real. Contact this Great spell Caster for your relationship or marriage problem. 
    Here's his contact..

    CALL/WHATSAPP: +2348118829899

    EMAIL: infinitylovespell@gmail.com  OR  infinitylovespell@yahoo.com  

    BLOG http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com

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  21. PROFESSIONAL SPELL CASTER WHO CAN HELP YOU WITH LOVE-SPELL TO GET YOUR EX LOVER BACK URGENTLY AFTER BREAKUP/DIVORCE EVEN IF YOUR SITUATION SEEMS HOPELESS! CONTACT: INFINITYLOVESPELL@GMAIL.COM IS CERTAINLY THE BEST SPELL CASTER ONLINE AND HIS RESULT IS 100% GUARANTEE.. 

    After 3 Years in a relationship with my Boyfriend, my Boyfriend started going out with other girls and showing me cold love, on several occasions he threatens to broke-up with me if I dare question him about his affair with other girls, I was totally devastated and confused until an old friend of mine told me about a spell caster on the internet DR GREAT who help people with their relationship and marriage problem by the powers of love Spells, At first I doubted If such thing ever exists but decided to give it a try, When I contact him, he told me everything I needed to do and I did and he helped me cast a Love Spell and within 28Hours my boyfriend came back to me and started apologizing, now he has stopped going out with girls and he is with me for good and for real. Contact this Great spell Caster for your relationship or marriage problem. 
    Here's his contact..

    CALL/WHATSAPP: +2348118829899

    EMAIL: infinitylovespell@gmail.com  OR  infinitylovespell@yahoo.com  

    BLOG http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com

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  22. Azakaspelltemple@gmail.com is certainly the best spell caster online and his result is 100% guarantee.. My husband breakup with me and left me to be with another woman, and i wanted him back. I was so frustrated and i could not know what next to do again, I love my husband so much but he was cheating on me with another woman and this makes him break up with me so that he can be able to get married to the other lady and this lady i think use witchcraft on my husband to make him hate me and my kids and this was so critical and uncalled-for, I cry all day and night for God to send me a helper to get back my husband!! I was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Azaka can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a love-spell for me, 24  hours later, my husband really called me and told me that he miss me so much, Oh My God! i was so happy, and today i am happy with my man again and we are joyfully living together as one big family and i thank the powerful spell caster Dr Azaka, he is so powerful and i decided to share my story on the internet that Dr Azaka is best spell caster online who i will always pray to live long to help his children in the time of trouble, if you are here and your lover is turning you down, or your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore, contact this powerful spell caster Dr Azaka on his email : azakaspelltemple@gmail.com you can also call him or add him on WhatsApp +2349059389105

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  23. My husband and I have been married for about 7 yrs now. We were happily married with two kids, a boy and a girl. 3 months ago, I started to notice some strange behavior from him and a few weeks later I found out that my husband is seeing someone. He started coming home late from work, he hardly care about me or the kids anymore, Sometimes he goes out and doesn't even come back home for about 2-3 days. I did all I could to rectify this problem but all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. As I was browsing through the Internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr jeffrey can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he did a spell for me. Two days later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr jeffrey . If you need a spell caster that can cast a spell that truly works, I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you. This is his E-mail:

    dctrjeffrey@gmail.com

    WhatsApp +2348162061202

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  24. My husband and I have been married for about 7 yrs now. We were happily married with two kids, a boy and a girl. 3 months ago, I started to notice some strange behavior from him and a few weeks later I found out that my husband is seeing someone. He started coming home late from work, he hardly care about me or the kids anymore, Sometimes he goes out and doesn't even come back home for about 2-3 days. I did all I could to rectify this problem but all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. As I was browsing through the Internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr Great can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he did a spell for me. Two days later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Great . If you need a spell caster that can cast a spell that truly works, I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you. This is his E-mail: 

    infinitylovespell@gmail.com or infinitylovespell@yahoo.com

    WhatsApp +2348118829899

    Blog http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete