CANDIDATES: Two candidates continue their fall!

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 2024

But what about Candidate Harris? Yesterday morning, deep in despair, we listed the names of the four candidates in the presidential election which took place at the dawn of the modern political era. 

Our call of the roll was flawless. As you may recall, the hopefuls in question were these:

The candidates in 1960:
John F. Kennedy: United States Senator from Massachusetts
Richard M. Nixon: Vice President of the United States 

Lyndon B. Johnson: Senate majority leader; "Master of the Senate"
Henry Cabot Lodge: Former United States Senator from Massachusetts; United States Ambassador to the United Nations, 1953-1960

Three of the four ended up in the White House. Only Lodge, the Republican vice presidential nominee, managed to escape that high honor, though even he gave it a try.

Lodge was a genuine Boston Brahmin. A quick overview goes like this:

Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. 

Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. (1902 – 1985) was an American diplomat and politician who represented Massachusetts in the United States Senate and served as United States Ambassador to the United Nations in the administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower. In 1960, he was the Republican nominee for Vice President on a ticket with Richard Nixon, who had served two terms as Eisenhower's vice president. The Republican ticket narrowly lost to Democrats John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson...

Born in Nahant, Massachusetts, Lodge was the grandson of Senator Henry Cabot Lodge and the great-grandson of Secretary of State Frederick Theodore Frelinghuysen. After graduating from Harvard University, Lodge won election to the Massachusetts House of Representatives. He defeated Democratic governor James Michael Curley in 1936 to represent Massachusetts in the United States Senate. He resigned from the Senate in 1944 to serve in Italy and France during World War II.  In 1946, Lodge defeated incumbent Democratic Senator David I. Walsh to return to the Senate.

He led the Draft Eisenhower movement before the 1952 election and managed Eisenhower's successful campaign for the Republican presidential nomination at the 1952 Republican National Convention. Eisenhower defeated Democratic nominee Adlai Stevenson II in the general election, but Lodge lost his own re-election campaign to then-Congressman Kennedy. Lodge was named as ambassador to the United Nations in 1953 and became a member of Eisenhower's Cabinet. Vice President Nixon chose Lodge as his running mate in the 1960 presidential election, but the Republican ticket lost the close election.

In 1963, the now-President Kennedy appointed Lodge to the position of Ambassador to South Vietnam, where Lodge supported the 1963 South Vietnamese coup. In 1964, Lodge won by a plurality a number of that year's party presidential primaries and caucuses on the strength of his name, reputation, and respect among many voters, though the nomination went to Barry Goldwater...

Within the demographics of Massachusetts politics, Lodge defeated We Irish in 1936. He then lost to us (indeed, to Rep. Kennedy himself!) in 1952. 

As for the three who did reach the White House, none of the three left that position of his own full free will. 

President Kennedy was murdered in 1963. His successor, President Johnson, decided not to seek re-election in 1968 as the society was collapsing around him. 

President Nixon resigned from office in 1974. He wanted to spend more time with his family at the San Clemente residence he so loved.

Yesterday, lost in despair about the quality of this year's hopefuls, we glanced back through Theodore White's portrait of another candidate from 1960—his portrait of another candidate who almost reached the White House.

This candidate was defeated by Candidate Kennedy in the 1960 primaries. Plainly, White admired his vast intelligence and his devotion to the regular American people:

WHITE (page 88): What is amazing about [Hubert] Humphrey is the wealth, the diversity, the detail of his knowledge, which runs from internal labor-union politics to the price of milk to the support price on peanuts to the tonnage on the St. Lawrence Seaway to his favorite Food for Peace plan to nuclear disarmament. Name a subject and somewhere, from his reading, Humphrey has picked up an expertise that he has digested and can now deliver, fused with intensity and passion within the frame of his own philosophy: that this is a nation of individuals, of yeoman and country merchants, and government’s job is to keep the big man from crushing the little man. 

[...]

What spoiled the Humphrey campaign—apart from the underlying fact that this country, Democrats and Republicans alike, was unwilling to be evangelized in 1960—was the very simplicity, the clarity, the homely sparkle he could bring to any issue. He could talk on almost any subject under the sun—to farmers, to workers, to university intellectuals. And when he finished there were no mysteries left; nor was he a mystery either. He was someone just like the listeners. There was no distance about him, no separation of intrigue, none of the majesty that must surround a king. Humphrey in a druggist’s jacket explaining the problems of druggists in small towns and their inventories (which he could, spectacularly), or Humphrey, joining a picket line to sing “Solidarity Forever,” was just like everyone else; and a President, unfortunately for Humphrey, must be different from everyone else. Humphrey yearned for the attention of the national press; yet the national press, which bore him so deep an affection, considered him almost too easy a friend...

There's much more in White's book about Humphrey's early progressive career, which started in 1945 with his election as the mayor of Minneapolis at the age of 34. 

In 1968, he became the latest sitting vice president to be caught in the vortex surrounding the president under whom he had served. After finally breaking with Johnson late in that year's general election, he narrowly lost to Candidate Nixon, who eventually abandoned the Oval under personal stress of some undisclosed kind.

At any rate, three of The 1960 Four eventually reached the White House. That said, they weren't perfect people. 

President Kennedy conducted an affair with a 19-year-old intern who actually was 19 years old and who actually was an intern. The extremely unattractive story has been cleaned up a bit in this Wikipedia profile

(Because President Kennedy is also Dear Jack, our contemporary press corps has rarely mentioned this matter, even as they've endlessly worked to embellish the facts in another.)

Later, Presidents Johnson and Nixon had to abandon their posts. In each case, inevitable human imperfections are believed to have been involved.

With his devotion to ordinary people and with his vast array of knowledge, Candidate Humphrey may have been the most admirable candidate of them all in that watershed year. For ourselves, we've been thinking of those candidates in a state of mild despair as we consider the state of play within "our [flailing] democracy" in this presidential year.

Yesterday, we also listed this year's four candidates. In any perspicacious reckoning of this year's campaign, former candidate Joseph R. Biden plainly makes it five. 

Over on the Republican side, the moral and intellectual squalor seem quite apparent this year. We've long assumed that there's "something wrong" with the presidential nominee. 

Tribunes of the upper-end press have agreed, right down to the end, that this apparent state of affairs must not be reported or discussed, except through the use of high euphemism. Everyone knows that "something is wrong," but our tribunes continue to be shocked, shocked with each new manifestation which appears.

In yesterday's report, we described the GOP's young vice presidential pick reaching the bottom of the moral barrel. Later yesterday, he managed to take things even further, as reported at Mediate:

Vance Lays Into the Media for ‘Debunking’ Springfield Migrant Claims Instead of Listening to ‘People Speak Their Truth’

Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance laid into the media for “debunking a story that comes from the residents of Springfield” on Monday, and urged journalists to listen “to people speak their truth" after he was criticized for promoting unfounded allegations about Haitian migrants eating pets in Ohio.

“I wish the American media was half as interested in the stress on the local schools, the stress on the hospitals, and unaffordable housing as they are in debunking a story that comes from the residents of Springfield,” said Vance at a campaign rally in North Carolina, Monday.

He then questioned, “Did you ever think about listening to people speak their truth instead of listening to some bureaucrat and assuming that everything they tell you is true?”

Sad! Adopting a braindead formulation which largely comes from within Blue America's tribe, the candidate said that the people of Springfield have been "stating their truth" about the eating of their city's cats and dogs. Even Pilate didn't stoop to that level when he posed his famous question, "What is truth?"

The people of Springfield have been "stating their truth" about the eating of cats and dogs! So said this apparently damaged young man, formerly a vastly mistreated child.

In fact, as the two people who triggered this frenzy have continued to speak their truth, they've apologized for misstating "the" truth in their original claims. But it seems that nothing is going to stop the very young man who was apparently damaged by the highly disordered upbringing he described in a best-selling book. 

Meanwhile, Candidate Trump explained himself further yesterday. It isn't just the Jews, he has now said. Catholics also have to be crazy to vote for "Comrade Kamala," this unusual hopeful has now declared.

Say what you will about Candidates Kennedy, Nixon and Johnson—none of the three was capable of this sort of gong-show, end-days campaign conduct. As for us the regular people in whom Candidate Humphrey had such faith, we the people are proving ourselves to be capable of believing almost anything during such highly fraught times as these—and we'd say that there are signs of this human proclivity among Red and Blue tribunes alike.

Inevitably, there are also the two Democratic candidates—Candidates Harris and Vance. At present, they're being slimed as obvious Commies and China symps all over the Fox News Channel.

As this happens, Blue America's great news orgs avert their gaze, choosing instead to focus all day on the latest largely useless polls.

In the last two days, Joe Scarborough has turned from Morning Joe into Shouting Joe as he has ranted about the fact that some people don't precisely agree with his every stance concerning the current race. In truth, there are shortcomings on display with our candidates too, and some people have noticed this fact. 

As we've noted, we're going to vote for Candidate Harris, who has been sensational in some aspects of this campaign. As with the previous Candidate Humphrey, she is significantly hobbled by her association with the horrors of the previous Candidate Biden. 

That strikes us as largely dumb and unfair. But that is the expected norm in all human reasoning.

That said, she too seems to be a limited person, as has always been true of everyone else. 

No candidate was ever perfect. As these end days glide along, we'll review our own hopefuls tomorrow.

Tomorrow: Jonathan plays the card


79 comments:

  1. "with the horrors of the previous Candidate Biden."
    Does anyone here imagine Somerby forgiving Joe Biden for the lowest unemployment rate in over half a century?

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    1. Why would an historically low unemployment rate be something for which a candidate should be forgiven?

      Oh, wait. You were being ironic. I wonder if other writers ever use irony? Perhaps even Somerby himself?

      A mind-blowing thought.

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    2. When there is a nation full of people deciding how to vote, what is the point of using "irony" that readers cannot confidently detect as ironic?

      Somerby never defended Biden, so why should anyone think he respects the achievements of our current Democratic president? Somerby doesn't even like the person he says he is voting for. She is far too imperfect for him to ever say anything nice about her, aside from that wonderful smile (women should be attractive, right?).

      Irony only works when the reader is sure of the author's actual intentions. Somerby never says anything clearly, so who knows what he intends with this so-called irony. Somerby wanted Biden gone; that is his context of prior statements. It makes more sense to believe he meant the word "horrors" as a criticism of Biden, perhaps an exaggeration of right-wing criticism of Biden, but not irony.

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    3. Here is a quote:

      “In our view, Candidate Biden is a terrible candidate; Candidate Warren is too. They're terrible in different ways, but they're terrible candidates both.”

      http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2019/11/candidate-biden-calls-warren-schoolmarm.html?
      m=1#comment-form

      Doesn’t seem ironic to me.

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    4. "She is far too imperfect for him to ever say anything nice about her"

      One would inded have to search far and wide, all the way up to today's post, to find Somerby saying something nice about Harris:

      "...Candidate Harris, who has been sensational in some aspects of this campaign."

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    5. Yes, Somerby DID say that Harris has a great smile. That is the ONLY thing he has called sensational about her campaigning. He has otherwise joined those blaming her for not giving enough interviews and sharing her views with voters. We call the people saying that "Republicans" and the press that normalizes Trump.

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    6. It is not possible to think Harris should give more interviews, yet still support her?

      What a cramped and limited world you live in.

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    7. Anything is possible, per some guy with a blog.

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    8. Somerby doesn’t support her. We all see that. He is a liar, like other right wingers.

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    9. Hitler condemned antisemitism in a speech, yet he did what he did.

      It’s not just possible Somerby is being disingenuous, damming with faint praise of those in the blue tribe, it is significantly more probable than the defensive position taken by his fanboys.

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    10. Hitler condemned antisemitism in a speech. Yet he did what he did.

      Is it not just possible that Somerby is disingenuous, it is the more likely circumstance.

      The fanboys that rush to defend Somerby sound more like sheep bleating than anything else.

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    11. 12:56 -- "Somerby doesn’t support her. We all see that. He is a liar"

      Do we all, in fact, "see that"? Actually, the truth is that some of us think that Somerby supports Harris (as he claims) and some of us think that he doesn't. Since you read the comments, you know about this difference of opinion. So when you say, "We all see that," you are telling a lie.

      Of course, we all know it's a lie, so it's not fooling anyone. You're just trying to manufacture some false evidence to support your point of view.
      Nevertheless, what you are doing is telling a lie.

      Generally speaking, I tend to ignore contentions that are made by obvious liars.



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    12. 2:57 - Comparing Somerby to Hitler is beneath contempt.

      This has really been a banner day for the Somerby-haters.

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    13. Soon, if Trump is elected, comparing Hitler to Trump will be considered beneath contempt. Trump will be considered much worse, especially if you include his unnecessary covid deaths during his first term and the blame that historians will assign to him for the Ukraine War.

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    14. PP, when I said "we" I was referring to the actual liberals here, not the right wing trolls. It doesn't makes any sense to consider trolls with opinions, since they are paid to say what their owners want them to say. Similarly, it makes no sense to consider bots with free will (opinions) either.

      Pointing out that Hitler lied and then did different things (including when he agreed to treaties and then broke them, or lied to Jews to get them to move to ghettos, or took money from ALL German taxpayers on the pretext of giving everyone a VW) is not the same as comparing Somerby to Hitler, but is merely pointing out that behavior matters, not words. Someone needs to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, whether they are Hitler or Somerby or Trump or even you, PP.

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    15. It is also possible to hate the sin but love the sinner. You, PP, keep referring to critics of Somerby's words as Somerby haters. What if we are in fact not hating him but trying to help him be the best he can be? What if we are trying to lead him back to the path of liberal thought? What if we don't like his essays but have nothing against him personally?

      When you call those of us who are Catholics or Evangelical Christians "haters" you are accusing us of a sin we may consider worse than what Pilate did, because it suggests we do not take our vows seriously, our commitment to Christ and walking in his steps by living a Christian life.

      You are getting a bit free with the insults today.

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    16. My goodness. Those who bear false witness against Somerby are preaching about Christian love.

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    17. But that works for me. I've long thought that one of Somerby's themes was that we liberals should be more worried about the beams in our own eyes, and that this message is so unsettling that it got Jesus crucified and it seems to provoke the sort of hatred that we see in these comment sections.

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    18. You think that preaching against the hatred embodied by Trump/Vance is a form of hating. That makes you the confused one here. Criticizing Somerby is not necessarily hating him, but you can't seem to separate the two. That is 4:57's point.

      I don't think I would like Somerby much, if I were to ever meet him, but I don't hate him, or you, or Cecelia. That may be another difference between the right and the left, but I don't have a big enough sample to know. I do know that it is the right buying lots of guns (compared to the left), the right is using those guns in random and purposeful shootings, there is a lot more hate speech in right wing candidate speeches, there is a huge increase in hate crimes and more are committed by the right than the left (setting aside mentally ill people and children), hate crimes and shootings are correlated with red states more than blue states, domestic violence and crimes of violence are correlated with red states, discrimination and negative feelings about immigrants and other forms of difference (transgender, gays, atheism, non-conformity) are correlated with red states more than blue. Oddly, religiosity is stronger in red states even though there is more hate there too. Places that emphasize kindness, tolerance, acceptance of difference, all are found in blue states more than red ones.

      Hate can be measured and it is not a trait that goes with lefty political views and values. Then look at Harris and see how her campaign is about optimism and joy, while Trump/Vance's is about hating immigrants, preventing doom gloom and fear by electing a strongman who won't allow people to have rights and freedom (other than to carry a gun). Tell me again who the haters are here?

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    19. Haters gotta hate.

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  2. "As for the three who did reach the White House, none of the three left that position of his own full free will. "

    Ignore the facts. Only JFK left office involuntarily by dying. LBJ decided not to seek another term and Nixon resigned. That is voluntary, even if there were factors affecting their decisions. When you bend the facts, as Somerby is doing, you lose track of reality. Keeping touch with reality requires being faithful to truth in your own thinking. Somerby doesn't do that much, based on his writing here.

    Somerby's headline today is vague but suggestive. He says: "Two candidates continue their fall!" Then he recaps four presidential candidates from the past, who cannot be the two in question because there are too many of them. Then Somerby spends some time recapping Vance and Trump's latest disasters. Are they the two candidates in fall? Could be, but Somerby doesn't say so. Then he gets to Joe Scarborough, who is blamed for holding opinions on his own show. And then Somerby winds up saying this about Harris:

    "As we've noted, we're going to vote for Candidate Harris, who has been sensational in some aspects of this campaign. As with the previous Candidate Humphrey, she is significantly hobbled by her association with the horrors of the previous Candidate Biden.

    That strikes us as largely dumb and unfair. But that is the expected norm in all human reasoning.

    That said, she too seems to be a limited person, as has always been true of everyone else.

    No candidate was ever perfect. As these end days glide along, we'll review our own hopefuls tomorrow."

    So perhaps the two candidates in "fall" are Harris and Walz, but that doesn't fit Somerby's description either, because despite his admonition to ignore useless polls, Harris and Walz are pulling ahead in the polls, rising in stature as people discover more about Harris and as Trump/Vance self-destruct. So, is the word "fall" really appropriate? Does it describe anything about Harris/Walz? Not in terms of reality, polling data, or any other measure. So, why the negative label? Does Somerby wish to see Harris fall? You'd almost think so, given that he can barely say anything positive about the candidate he says he supports.

    This is how Somerby plays his word games. But when you play word games, you come across as confused. You longer someone pretends to be something else, the less sure he will be of who he really is. But perhaps Somerby has taken to shilling for the right because he lost track of his own values back in 2015. If he no longer knows what he believes, he has nothing to lose by being what others want him to be.

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    1. It seems as though Somerby is judging Harris based on her show-biz performance as a candidate and not based on her accomplishments, policies, values or plans as president. He says "she has been sensational in some aspects of this campaign," as if the ability to campaign were a qualification for doing the work of president, when it is far from it. This is the same mistaken argument Somerby (and others) made when they demanded Biden not run because of his lack of vigor as a campaigner.

      When did campaigning become theater, a reality show, instead of a means for voters to find out about the candidates? Somerby's focus on the advent of TV, suggests it may have been back when voters started to get a good look at their candidates. Instead of analyzing whether this change has been a good way to select the president, Somerby joins the crowd by suggesting the arm-waving abilities matter to the job after the election. If that were true, Trump might have been a good president instead of the worst ever.

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    2. "...when they demanded Biden not run because of his lack of vigor as a campaigner."

      The argument for Biden to withdraw did focus primarily on his weakness as a campaigner, which may not be much of a predictor as to how you'll govern, but is an excellent predictor of whether you'll govern.

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    3. Was it a good predictor of whether Trump would serve well in the job in 2016? It seems to me that Trump was very energetic at his rallies and then spent his presidency playing golf and engaging in "executive time" which consisted of naps and TV watching, while refusing to do traditional aspects of the job itself, including listening to morning briefings (since he refused to read anything).

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  3. “ latest largely useless polls”

    NOW the polls are useless.

    Somerby was reporting daily on polls when Biden was being drummed out of office.

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  4. How can Harris be hobbled by a successful presidency, like that of Biden? Humphrey was supposedly hobbled by LBJ's presidency, but it was more that he was hobbled by the Vietnam war, and racist backlash to the Civil Rights Act, and an unhelpful VP choice. LBJ did not start the war and he didn't cause the youth movement that supported the push for civil rights emerging in the 1960s and continuing through the 70s until the "greed is good" 80s.

    Somerby makes a historical analysis mistake when he reduces social and economic factors to personality flaws in candidates. But Somerby has expressed his idea that charisma overcomes such factors before. He complained about Biden's lack of charisma, but look how Biden transcended his lack of Trumpian arm-waving to do a stellar (not horrible) job as president! (no irony intended by this exclamation point, just emphasis and enthusiasm)

    Whatever Somerby is looking for in a "perfect" candidate, perhaps he is seeking the wrong things. And does anyone need to be reminded of Gore's lack of charisma? Gore too might have been one of those men who would achieve well in the job, even if he was lacking charm as a circus performer.

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  5. "That strikes us as largely dumb and unfair. But that is the expected norm in all human reasoning."

    I think it is dumb and unfair of Somerby to characterize human reasoning this way. Human reasoning evolved to enable the survival of our species. Judging by population data, we have done an excellent job at that. Individual people might reach an occasional dumb and unfair judgment, but if we did that regularly as a species, we wouldn't be doing as well as we are.

    This is more of the doom and gloom thinking that embodies Trump's approach to politics, instills fear for the future and drives people to vote Republican. Somerby's ongoing lack of optimism and his depressive tone are additional reasons why I believe he is not liberal but is shilling for the right wing.

    He seems to be pretending that he just must damn Harris with faint praise (no praise) because he has high standards and demands perfection in candidates for office, and indeed, in all of humanity. But that is hogwash. Accepting the imperfections of the world doesn't require that a person go to the other extreme, calling all the Democrats terrible candidates, ignoring the good done by Biden (with Harris), never acknowledging what Harris does right (which is considerable not occasional), and noticing that the world has gotten better over time, by applying human reasoning to solve our shared problems and make this a better place for everyone to live (worldwide). Those things are true too, while Somerby spins a Trumpian tale of dysfunction that requires a strongman leader because democracy has failed and it is time for the neo-Nazis to take over (because this where Somerby's reasoning leads him).

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    1. Harris should be cleaning houses, not President. All women need to learn their place and get back to the kitchen. It is their job to provide for men what they want, when they want it.

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    2. All men need to learn their place and get back to the fields and the mines. It is their job to put food on the table for women and children, when they want it and especially when they need it.

      Why is that part of the Christian Nationalist, White Supremacist, incel manosphere, Men's Rights, party line never quoted? I think you guys are trying to evade your duties as providers and Trump has now promised women that you guys are going to pick up the slack when he's elected. He said women are going to have to worry about keeping you guys in line any more, when he becomes Dictator on Day 1. Personally, I can't wait!! (no sarcism intended) In fact, why are you lazing about on the internet instead of toting that barge? I'll bet you haven't cut the grass on your lawn in years. That dog on a chain you have guarding your guns isn't going to last much longer, you know. The bigger the dog, the shorter the lifespan.

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    3. typo correction: Trump said women aren't going to have to worry...

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    4. Men are in the fields and the mines. They never left. Look around the room you are in. Men conceived and built every single thing you are looking at. So, calm down, honey. Trump will win and you can get back to doing what you do best. Chopping carrots.

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    5. Look at all the asshole men who desert their wives and families and have to be sued and still don't pay their support. Perhaps Trump is promising that when there is no more divorce allowed, men will be forced to take care of their own children (even the bastards). I'm for that!

      Men didn't conceive or build any of the things women did, except working in mixed-gender teams. A woman won the Nobel Prize for her contribution to the covid vaccine (but you probably think that was evil, even though it saved so many lives). A woman designed and supervised the building of the Brooklyn Bridge. If I were in NYC, I might be looking at it this minute. More importantly to you, I assume, your mom created you and no man's invention can top that. That's why men are so jealous all the time.

      Women are now more than 50% of enrollees in colleges and universities, including professional programs like law and medicine. Men have decided to be too stupid to study, so they are not being accepted to college. If that continues, women will be telling men what to do in every discipline, including the military. That's why guys like you are so scared you have to back an imbecilic tyrant like Trump. But you be you. No one else wants that job.

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    6. Some women can fit into and be productive in today's society that men conceived, built and continue to operate. I am happy to know that women with degrees will soon be paving our roads, fixing our broken toilets, repairing our roofs, building our skyscrapers and protecting us from murderers and going to war for us. Something men current do exclusively. (Some dykes are plumbers though, it's true.)

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    7. Women are just as capable of looking up how to fix a toilet on Youtube as men are. If men were protecting women from murderers, they would stop murdering them. A woman designed and supervised building of the Brooklyn bridge. Women work in all jobs listed in the Dept of Labor’s Dictionary of Occupational Titles, including road work. Men also work in jobs like nursing, teaching, child care, clerical and retail customer contact, waiting on tables. The world has changed and women are not going back.

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    8. Those two failed Trump assassination attempts are what you get when you send a man to do a woman's job.

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  6. "Sad! Adopting a braindead formulation which largely comes from within Blue America's tribe, the candidate said that the people of Springfield have been "stating their truth" about the eating of their city's cats and dogs. Even Pilate didn't stoop to that level when he posed his famous question, "What is truth?""

    Somerby calls listening to what the people are saying a "braindead formulation" and claims it arises on the left, even though Vance uses it here to justify the anecdote he has admitted "creating" to keep the focus on immigration issues.

    What kind of liberal calls the values of his own side "braindead"? Politicians are supposed to listen to the needs of their constituents because that is how democracy works. It is not braindead to insist that happen, nor is it braindead to champion the interests of the people (as Harris does when she supports the middle class against corporate abuses, as she has done her entire career).

    Vance stole that idea and advanced it as a justification for his lie, but instead of pointing out that Vance is lying and blaming non-existent people in Springfield for that lie, Somerby agrees with Vance and disavows the lefty view that the needs of the people matter.

    The idea of immigrants eating pets is an anti-immigrant slur applied to stigmatized people from early days. Somerby should have recognized that and called that out in Vance's braindead defense of his lies about Haitians. Somerby is more likely to agree with the attacks on immigrants and Biden's horrible immigration policy (adopted from Trump) instead. Somerby buys into Trump's hate-mongering and holds that against Harris and Biden (and by extension Democrats, who favor humane treatment and rational immigration policies).

    So, Somerby defends Vance when he wraps himself in lefty rhetoric in order to excuse his lie about Haitians eating pets, by attacking left-wing views about listening to the complaints of the people. Even though Vance didn't actually do that, in this situation.


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    1. Maybe Somerby was being ironic again?

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    2. "Somerby calls listening to what the people are saying a "braindead formulation" and claims it arises on the left"

      No. The braindead formulation to which Somerby refers is that people should state THEIR truth, as if we each carry around a version of the truth in our hip pocket rather than there being objective truth to which we are all subject.

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    3. We each DO have a subjective reality that may be different from collective experience and so-called objective reality. That is known from psychology which uses the the term phenomenology. This doesn’t change because Republicans object to it.

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    4. Hector, the problem is the way Somerby talks about Harris.

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    5. In your subjective reality, "Somerby defends Vance" by saying that Vance reached the "the bottom of the moral barrel" and was stooping lower than Pontius Pilate.

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    6. Somerby has said before that Vance should be pitied because of his unfortunate upbringing. Same excuse as for Trump. Somerby defends Vance by attributing the braindead formulation VANCE employed to the woke left, so it isn't Vance who is lying, but the left who says it is OK for different people to have different lived experiences.

      This whole defense of Vance is ridiculous because no one in Springfield said their cat or dog was eaten by a Haitian.

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    7. Outside of some aspects of math, everything in the universe is on a spectrum, is uncertain to some degree, is only known in terms of probabilities.

      Somerby typically seems to prefer Hobbes over Rousseau. That’s his truth.

      Today he strays a bit, suggesting that unresolved childhood trauma explains how some folks have lost their way. Good on Somerby!

      OTOH Somerby has been insisting for years that we listen to those in the red tribe, that their truth holds some validity, harshly scolding the blue tribe for supposedly neglecting to attend to this notion. Yet today Somerby calls it a braindead formulation.

      There is no coherency or much consistency to Somerby’s posts; what binds them is a cynical bitterness, borne from his own troubled past.

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    8. "This whole defense of Vance is ridiculous"

      What is even more ridiculous is that you think Somerby is defending Vance.

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    9. Vance is the one talking about his constituents truth. Somerby called that a braindead formulation but instead of attributing it to Vance, he blamed the left.

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    10. Somerby defends the overall worldview of Vance and those of his ilk, but he is mad at Vance for poor execution.

      The “defense” 2:10 is referring to is blaming the blue tribe for Vance’s lack of competency in spreading the misguided values that Somerby himself clings to.

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    11. Actually he attributed the "speaking their truth" quote to Vance, but noted in passing that the "speaking their truth" trope was one favored by the left. Which, of course, is true.

      Somerby also said that Vance was on a lower moral plane than Pontius Pilate, the man who ordered Christ's crucifixion. It's difficult imagine a condemnation greater than that. Yet this is your idea of a "defense."

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    12. Can you imagine a defense lawyer arguing to a jury: "To sum up my defense, my client is worse than the killer of Christ!"

      Delete
    13. Can you imagine anyone equating a comment squabble to a criminal trial?

      Delete
    14. PP, yes the left uses the "speaking their truth" trope, as you call it, but that is because the left tends to embrace science more than the right does. As I originally pointed out above, this comes from psychology, which is a science because it uses the scientific method to study human cognition and behavior. Before that, as Somerby has himself said here, the Greek philosophers understand that we are embedded in a subjective perception of reality that prevents us from directly knowing what is real. The Greeks thought that was unsolvable, but later scientists figured out ways of measuring and knowing an objective reality independent of human subjectivities (and quantitative methods capable of dealing with the probabilistic nature of measurement of the physical world). They even discovered that human beings reason probabilistically, because they needed a way of thinking that dealt with the nature of the world itself. I have explained that too here, back when Somerby was accusing human of being failures at reasoning because they didn't follow formal logic (as invented by the Greeks back before science was invented).

      I am not Catholic or Christian, so no, I don't consider Vance lower morally than a dead persecutor of a fictional Christ, thanks for asking. Somerby has said before that he is not religious either, so I doubt he considers this as great a condemnation as you claim. He is being poetic. Vance is scum. Somerby needs to say so directly, not beat around the bush the way he always does, preserving plausible deniability and maintaining his cover as a self-designated liberal. You don't call Vance scum by blaming his "sins" on the left, especially when Vance was perhaps being sarcastic or ironic by using a lefty argument against lefty criticism. Somerby bought into his ploy, which is not holding him accountable, as he should have it he truly thinks Vance is morally low.

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    15. Somerby didn't "blame Vance's sins on the left." He blamed Vance's sin -- which is persisting in slandering Haitians in Springfield -- on Vance. All Somerby did was note that Vance made use of a trope popularized by the left, and for some bizarre reason you think of this as a defense of Vance.

      Delete
    16. "the left uses the "speaking their truth" trope, as you call it, but that is because the left tends to embrace science more than the right does. As I originally pointed out above, this comes from psychology, which is a science because it uses the scientific method"

      How does the science of psychology determine whether someone is 'speaking their truth'?

      Do they measure the units of 'truth-spoken'? Do they ask the person after they've said something, 'Were you speaking your truth?' Or 'how much of your truth did you just speak?"

      Do they compare test scores of people who speak their truth with people who don't?

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    17. Mocking psychology just reveals your ignorance. You go to grad school to learn methods of research and there isn't space to describe them here. Self-report is not considered a reliable measure but there are many indirect ways of studying what people experience under well-controlled circumstances. Tests are used only in a limited set of circumstances, when studying attitudes and beliefs for example. There are quite a few trade books about perception, judgment, language, memory that describe some of the kinds of experiments used. Seeing whether people all think the same or differently is one of the first questions -- it concerns human variability. When it was found that people differ about the simplest things, early scientists decided that human behavior could not be studied scientifically. That changed when statistics for dealing with variability were developed (means, std deviations, t-tests and ANOVA and more recently cognitive modeling, data reduction applied to multivariate statistics, correlation and regression, methods for holding variables constant or measuring their impact on other variables). These statistical approaches, originally developed for use in psychology, have now been applied to biomedical research and other fields.

      Try John R. Anderson's "Cognitive Psychology and its Implications, a textbook that describes classic experiments and their findings.

      https://store.macmillanlearning.com/us/product/Cognitive-Psychology-and-Its-Implications/p/1319067115?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxsm3BhDrARIsAMtVz6OpjE9EvEai9Had3wfML7gF_Ef80xqieVfKMUrnl2DSWhO56CS8hVYaAmTDEALw_wcB

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    18. They are using neuroscience fmri brain scans to detect lying, so why couldn't they use them to determine who is telling their own truth and who is not?

      Delete
    19. Paul Ekman studied lying and controlled for motivation by setting up experimental contexts where incentives were offered and manipulated to see the effect on a person's responses (whether they lied or told the truth). But the original question was whether people have their own subjective truth that differs from the truths of others, and that is true across a wide variety of situations.

      For example, what is the personal truth of a MAGA Trump supporter compared to someone who is a never-Trumper? It is different, right? What is the personal truth of someone who thinks Kamala Harris is an inspiring woman who is leading black women into a new age of acceptance and opportunity? The same as Somerby's lived truth? I doubt it.

      So it does make some sense to say that the lived experience of people with pets in Springfield is not the same as what Vance claimed it was. Is there a reality. I makes sense to talk about how much of that reality is shared across different groups of people. If a person truly believes that Haitians eat cats, does it matter what the actual reality is, if that person believes something different? Politicians are trying to change the lived truth, the person truth of voters to coincide with positive views of Harris, who she is, what she has done, what she can do. If they went to the polls without campaigning, assuming that everyone already knows the true reality about her, they might lose, because everyone does not share the same reality when it comes to knowledge about political candidates.

      This is so obvious that I am surprised anyone disputes it. In fact, I consider it an indicator of major ignorance on the subject of how people think and how their minds work.

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    20. 7:07 - "Mocking psychology just reveals your ignorance."

      I don't think it was "psychology" that Hector was mocking.

      Delete
    21. He was suggesting that someone's lived truth cannot be effectively measured. It can.

      Delete
    22. Thank you for speaking your truth.

      Delete
    23. You two ought to get a room.

      Delete
  7. Somerby says: "Inevitably, there are also the two Democratic candidates—Candidates Harris and Vance. At present, they're being slimed as obvious Commies and China symps all over the Fox News Channel."

    And in the paragraph above by Somerby, Vance is also being slimed as being a Democrat, when he is Trump's VP and Somerby obviously meant to slime Walz instead.

    Meanwhile Somerby repeats Vance's canard about being raised in Appalachia when Vance grew up in a middle class suburb in Ohio. His grandparents also lived in Ohio, not Kentucky, while Vance was growing up. None of them is a hillbilly, unless you want to apply that term to all middle class midwesterners.

    Vance told lies in his book Hillbilly Elegy. These are catalogued by several reviewers and there has been some outrage in Kentucky about them too. Why can't Somerby take the time to investigate the things Vance says before repeating them?

    And if he is going to repeat a slur against Harris about being Communist and supporting China, can't he spend a sentence debunking those slurs? Or does he want them to stand?

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    Replies
    1. "And in the paragraph above by Somerby, Vance is also being slimed as being a Democrat, when he is Trump's VP and Somerby obviously meant to slime Walz instead."

      Quite possibly the most confused piece of writing ever put in front of me.

      Delete
  8. “ Inevitably, there are also the two Democratic candidates—Candidates Harris and Vance.”

    Oops. Vance?

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  9. Along with the decline in quality of government leadership is that things more and more don't work. In fact, we less and less expect them to work.

    -- The War on Poverty has been lost despite continuing spending of trillions. There appears to be a permanent underclass in portions of most cities.

    -- Our military hasn't had a success in a long time. Meanwhile the Houtis control access to the Suez Canal. We seem powerless to stop them.

    -- Our space program is way behind Musk's Space X

    -- Social Security and Medicare will be insolvent in just a few years, Nothing is being done to fis the problem.

    -- Most economists agree that our rapidly growing Federal Deficit is unsustainable, but nobody seems to be even trying to fix it.

    -- Despite lots of talk and attention and spending, the world isn't reducing its use of fossil fuels.

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    1. David,
      I'm trying to fix the deficit. I'll be voting straight Democratic ticket, because there's a good chance they'll rescind that ridiculous tax break Trump gave to the rich and corporations, which blew-up the deficit, if they control the Presidency, the House, and the Senate.
      You're welcome.

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    2. "trying" -- that's part of the problem. Instead of "trying", I want "succeeding".

      Neither party has a program to actually fix the deficit. All they have is the claim that the opponents' approach will work even worse than their approach. The deficit is viewed as way to criticize the other party, rather than as a problem they're committed to solving.

      Delete
    3. Yet, immigrants continue to come here, seemingly oblivious to David's middle-class white man problems.

      Delete
    4. Re: the view of the deficit.
      If defense contractors need more entitlement spending, the deficit can be safely ignored.
      However, if funding is needed to help the struggling middle/ lower classes, the deficit is a very important problem which needs to be discussed endlessly.

      Delete
    5. More to the point: the deficit only matters when a Democrat occupies the White House.

      Don't believe me? Ask Dick Cheney.

      Delete
    6. Child poverty was nearly cut in half in a single year recently by Biden/Harris/Dems in congress.

      That legislation was halted by Republicans, who are the main impediment to societal progress.

      Republicans truly only support and represent the top 1-10%, they are extreme elitists, although they have managed to motivate other elements, those suffering from traits that make them racists, sexists, and xenophobes, but this is little more than a con - Republicans will turn on those people in a heartbeat if it serves the top class.

      Things are decent right now, but if one is interested in progress, in positively resolving some of our main issues, the only way to do that is to not vote for Republicans.

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    7. Anyone the least bit serious about reducing the deficit cannot vote for the idiot who proposes large scale deportations, across the board tariffs and more tax cuts for the 1%. Wharton economists, Goldman Sachs, Jamie Dimon and others have weighed in and are unimpressed, to be kind. But we have a similar example of republicans sinking the economy in the not distant past. George W. Bush, whose first term resulted in the Iraq war and Afghanistan escalation, hideous examples of foreign policy bungling, though not as catastrophic to American lives as Trump's Covid mismanagement, managed to get re-elected with a tax cuts for the rich economic policy that like Trump's skyrocketed the deficit. His second term was a disaster for the economy, the great recession of 2008. Trump's platform is predictably inflationary and scored to add an additional 5+ trillion dollars to the deficit. Republican administrations have an economic track record historically that is abysmal compared to their Democratic counterparts. The billionaire genius who could not get a business loan from any US bank prior to his election will likely be an economic disaster based upon his stated ambitions if elected.

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    8. QiB re: poverty. Don't tell DIC. It will ruin his day.

      Delete
    9. And of course, contrary to DIC's contention (as an actuary, no less), the Social Security solvency problem is solvable except that Republicans would rather it go under:
      https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/03/changes-americans-are-willing-to-make-to-fix-social-security.html

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    10. I have come to the conclusion that DiC and most of MAGA are wishing for anarchy. That is the only possible explanation I can think of for their unqualified support for Trump.

      Delete
  10. From Jeff Tiedrich:

    “ the press hounded Joe until he finally dropped out of the race. but here’s the thing: Joe Biden could have avoided all this controversy just by being A Very Special Boy, like Donny Convict is — because if you point out to any of the worthless scribblers of the corporate-controlled media that Donny is old, too, you’re going to get an earful of well of course he is. so what? cut the guy some slack.”

    Somerby could mention this but he is in the “very special boy” camp for Trump AND Vance.

    ReplyDelete
  11. A lawsuit has been filed against Trump and Vance for their lies about Haitians in Springfield eating pets. Good!

    ReplyDelete