THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 5, 2024
The Kennedy / Nixon reporters: American media have come a long way since Labor Day 1960. An observer might even think of the way Laura Ingalls Wilder began her famous first book, Little House in The Big Woods:
WILDER (page 1): Once upon a time, sixty years ago, a little girl lived in the Big Woods of Wisconsin, in a little gray house made of logs.
The great, dark trees of the Big Woods stood all around the house, and beyond them were other trees and beyond them were more trees. As far as a man could go to the north in a day, or a week, or a whole month, there was nothing but woods. There were no houses. There were no roads. There were no people. There were only trees and the wild animals who had their homes among them.
Writing in 1932, Wilder was describing the Wisconsin of the late 1860s—the deeply forested, largely uninhabited Wisconsin of her early childhood and her 1867 birth.
"There was nothing but woods," she wrote. "There were no houses. There were no roads...There were only trees and wild animals,"
It's a bit like that when we look back to the American media landscape of the early 1960s—to the media landscape within which Candidates Kennedy and Nixon vied for control of the White House.
There were no national "talk radio" programs. There was no Internet. There was no social media.
There were no "cable news" stations! There was no such thing as the Fox News Channel, or even CNN.
It's as we noted yesterday, based on the reporting by Theodore White in his own famous first book, The Making of The President 1960. Within that limited media landscape, presidential candidates had to struggle, scuffle and strain to gain access to "the cheering mass."
It's as we noted yesterday. On the Friday morning of the Labor Day weekend of 1960, Candidate John F. Kennedy flew from the Washington area on to Maine. He then flew across the country to San Francisco.
From San Francisco, it was on to Alaska. He then turned his plane back to the east, landing in Detroit on Sunday evening for the formal start, early on the morning of Labor Day, of his White House campaign.
There was no cable news at that time; there was no Internet. A candidate had to fly all around the country, shouting himself hoarse.
Last week, a vastly different situation prevailed as Candidate Trump sat with the Fox News Channel's Mark Levin to tape a pair of hour-long broadcasts—hour-long programs which aired on Saturday and Sunday nights of this year's Labor Day weekend.
A vast array of media now stood at a hopeful's command. This profusion has created a challenge to the American political system, but also to us the people—a challenge we the people may not be equipped to negotiate, address or withstand.
The proliferation of media didn't come all at once. As far back as 1992, Candidate Bill Clinton went on Arsenio Hall's late-night TV program to speak directly to millions of people, "over the head of the press."
Last weekend, for better or worse, Candidate Trump took advantage of a similar opportunity. Our systems had come a long way since Candidate Kennedy took that long plane ride to Alaska, followed by that long ride back.
Before we more fully examine what happened on last weekend's airings of Life, Liberty and Levin, it might be worth recalling the portrait Theodore White drew of the men—and presumably, they were all men—who flew around the country with Candidates Kennedy and Nixon back in 1960.
Given the primitive media landscape which prevailed in the big woods of that time, these "forty or fifty men, generally middle-aged," played a highly significant role in the spread of information during the 1960 campaign.
White's book about that campaign is almost as famous as Wilder's. He described these men, and the role they played in that campaign, in a brief, six-page passage which came fairly late in his book.
Being one of those men himself, White painted a sympathetic portrait of the conditions they faced as they pursued their role in that important White House campaign. As his portrait started, he pictured those men on those planes:
WHITE (page 333): One must begin any reflection on the press reporting of the 1960 campaign by dissolving the word “press” from mind and replacing it with the picture of forty or fifty men, all veterans of their craft, all proud of their integrity and their calling, most of them having won the right to report the campaign after long careers of merit in their newspapers, magazines, or radio networks—and all of them individuals.
One must see these forty or fifty men, generally middle-aged, rocking groggily off a plane at between one and two in the morning (“Where are we now?” “Do we get our baggage here?” “Hey, where are we sleeping tonight?” “Are they feeding us here or not, do you know?”’), then wearily listening to the worn remarks of the candidate as he greets the greeters, then piling into the bus to be driven half an hour to the hotel (watching for local color as they go), dashing upstairs to the hastily arranged press room (“Are there coffee and sandwiches there?”) and getting the story off. Then to sleep between two and three, to be woken by the hotel clerk (who has been instructed by the advance man that all baggage must be in the lobby at six in the morning); downstairs to fight with the advance men, the staff, the other correspondents for eggs and coffee, before dashing off to hear the breakfast rally...
Borrowing from Langston Hughes, life for those forty or fifty men wasn't "no crystal stair."
In his evocative portrait, White describes the massive tedium and the persistent indignities involved in covering the 1960 White House campaign. Before he described "what happened, I believe, in the press reporting of the campaign," he offered a further portrait of the journalists in question:
WHITE (page 335): ...The men assigned to cover a Presidential campaign are, normally, the finest in the profession of American journalism—men of seniority and experience, some of them men of deep scholarship and wisdom, all of them full of dignity and a sense of their own importance. Yet for weeks and months they must live like tramps —shaken, rushed, fighting with police at police lines, dirty and unbathed for days on end, herded into buses like schoolboys. Physical care and handling of the correspondents were much alike in both revolving headquarters—the same instantaneous telegraphic and telephonic communications, the same box lunches, the same baggage-laundry-feeding hotel arrangements. But none of this meticulous, logistic care could erase the turbulent reality of reporting, the insane jet-flight quality of the 1960 campaign—or protect the simple individual dignity of men who had to combine the qualities of roustabouts and philosophers under circumstances that inexorably deprived them of the last shreds of dignity.
Who were the people who'd been assigned to report the 1960 campaign for us, the American people, such as we were at the time? White's overall assessment is clear:
In White's account, these forty or fifty men were "all veterans of their craft, all proud of their integrity and their calling." In White's account. most of these men "had won the right to report the campaign after long careers of merit in their newspapers, magazines, or radio networks."
(At that time, "radio networks" were still of great consequence—and that wasn't a reference to the partisan national radio "talk shows" which developed years later.)
According to White, the men who reported this White House campaign were "the finest in the profession of American journalism." They were "men of seniority and experience." Some of them—though apparently not all—were "men of deep scholarship and wisdom, all of them full of dignity," though perhaps with an occasional "sense of their own importance."
It's interesting to see White describe these reporters this way, because—as we noted last week—he goes on to describe astounding journalistic misconduct on the Kennedy plane, as the reporters assigned to cover that candidate began to see themselves as an extension of his campaign.
("By the last weeks of the campaign, those forty or fifty national correspondents who had followed Kennedy since the beginning of his electoral exertions into the November days had become more than a press corps—they had become his friends and, some of them, his most devoted admirers," White wrote. And yes, it got worse after that.)
For the reporters covering Candidate Nixon, it was a whole different ballgame. Still, they struggled to do their best work, White maintained:
WHITE (page 335-336): What happened, I believe in the press reporting of 1960 was that the sense of dignity of these men, their craftsmen’s pride in their calling, was abused by Mr. Nixon and his staff—and not by accident, but by decision. The brotherhood of the press was considered by Mr. Nixon and his press staff, not a brotherhood, but a conspiracy, and a hostile conspiracy at that; it was as if he accepted them permanently in their uncomfortable and unpleasant campaign role—as vagabonds.
The decision that the press was a conspiracy had been taken long before Mr. Nixon was actually nominated. One of his aides declared to me in June in flat words, “Stuff the bastards. They’re all against Dick anyway. Make them work—we aren’t going to hand out prepared remarks; let them get their pencils out and listen and take notes.” This philosophy was expressed, not only to me, but to any number of members of the brotherhood...
Nor was the hostility between press and the Nixon campaign simply a fruit of this trivial disdain. Predominantly Democratic in orientation, the reporters who followed Nixon were, nonetheless, for the sake of their own careers, anxious to write as well, as vividly, as substantively as possible about him. Yet he held himself aloof; erratically, he would sometimes permit reporters to ride his personal plane and at other times forbid it...Nixon kept to himself, believing (until too late in the campaign) that he could reach the American people over the heads of the press...
White couldn't have known this at the time, but he was sketching a storyline which would prevail right up to the present day—a storyline according to which national journalists were "predominantly Democratic," with many such people seeing themselves as agents of their day's Democratic nominee.
Nothing has ever undermined the power of this enduring portrait—not even the hostile coverage extended to Candidate Gore during Campaign 2000. But even as he described the divergent atmospheres on the two campaign planes, White insisted that his colleagues on the Nixon plane were "anxious to write as well, as vividly, as substantively as possible about him," if only (in some cases) "for the sake of their own careers."
There was no "cable news" in the landscape of that White House campaign. There was no Fox News Channel, not even a CNN.
There was no Sean Hannity in the Big Woods. There was no Morning Joe.
"Radio networks" still held sway! There were frantic plane rides to Alaska, with other long plane rides back.
The media landscape was very different when Candidate Trump sat down with Mark Levin for the taping of an endless interaction which was scheduled to air on the Labor Day weekend.
Candidate Trump made no personal appearances on this year's Labor Day. Instead, he had created two hours of air—and his "interview" had been conducted by a type of media figure who had barely existed way back when, in the thinly populated Big Woods of the 1960 campaign.
Levin is an open supporter of Trump, as is his perfect right. That said, a profusion of media now exists—a profusion which presents a serious challenge to our traditional systems.
Democratic norms are under assault from the inhabitants of today's woods. It isn't clear that we the people will have what it takes to handle this ongoing challenge.
Tomorrow: As aired on the Fox News Channel
I cannot figure out what Bob's point is in this post.
ReplyDeleteOur Host, from time to time, takes us on a winding journey only to reach the destination of his final sentence: "It isn't clear that we the people will have what it takes to handle this ongoing challenge."
DeleteIt's not exactly a point. More of a framing of posts yet to be written.
The point is today’s media saturation may make it harder for the public to effectively navigate political challenges.
DeleteBut Somerby doesn’t seem to know what media people are using?
DeleteI can now understand the suffering of people with TDS. Just watching a few Comma La clips did it. For the 250th time, she says “we are not going back” and the crowd rapturously cheers. She says “I am speaking now” and the NPC crowd roars. The dingbat cackles, crowd develops mushy feelings. Morons and losers. Perhaps their 8th Covid booster shot did this to them. It’s a devolution from the crowds of 1960s.
ReplyDeletemake america great again.
DeleteExample of TDS -- A classmate in an informal philosophy class cannot restrain herself from criticizing Trump and MAGA in ways that are inaccurate. E.g., claiming that his pro-Americans comments were really pro-white Christian-Americans -- something he never said and AFAIK has denied. His treatment of his daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren belies the accusation.
DeleteAside from being wrong, she shouts out this sort of accusation even when it's not really relevant to the discussion.
She apparently finds it relevant. You might try to understand her position and see why she thinks so.
DeleteDavid in Cal will NOT be voting for that classmate, because that classmate isn’t telling him the lies he wants to believe.
DeleteFriends and neighbors, David in the years before Trump would have disassociated himself from Mao’s drivel here. Trump pushed himself out into the light so now we can really see him.
DeleteI hope David lives long enough to devolve into the holocaust-denier his friends on the Right are setting him up to be.
DeleteMisogynist gonna misogyny.
DeleteDOJ has accused the following social media personalities of being funded by Russia: Tim Pool, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, Lauren Southern, Taylor Hansen and Matt Christiansen.
ReplyDeleteSomerby, as cunning as he is fiendish, somehow avoided inclusion on the list.
Surely you think that the DOJ knows about and indicts all crimes and corruption ever committed, otherwise, your pronouncement is remarkably ignorant.
DeleteIn reality, Somerby is indeed like a slightly more cunning and erudite Tim Pool type figure. If you got conned, that's on you; ignorance is bliss, so enjoy it.
Four years ago, Trump was attacked for fictional Russian connection, based on the baseless Steele Dossier. Well, it's election time again...
Delete1 out of 3 correct beats your average David.
DeleteBravo.
A couple right wing scumbag treasonous bastards have been exposed for COLLUDING with Russia to help re-elect Donald J Chickenshit! Bwahahaha! Dic, how does it feel to be a useful idiot?
DeleteDavid, am I understanding you correctly? Are you concluding that because this news is detrimental to the Trump campaign it must therefore be wrong?
DeleteFrom the Mueller report:
Deletethe “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the (Trump) Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”
Mueller described “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.”
He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”
He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.
"In reality, Somerby is indeed like a slightly more cunning and erudite Tim Pool type figure."
DeleteYou left out 'fiendish'.
Also David, you apparently missed a few years. The Steele dossier wasn't four years ago--it was eight!
DeleteThis time, the Russian interference allegations are so clearly fake and phony that conservative Blaze Media has summarily ended its contract with the media contributors at the center of the scandal.
As the young dudes say, Read All About It!
Quaker - well I was never very good at numbers ;)
DeleteIs news detrimental to Trump automatically wrong? Of course not. I even comment on some of it, such as his lousy "interview" that Bob wrote about.
I was thinking of the adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." We were once fooled by a claim that Russian interference helped Trump get elected. Based on the past, I am suspicious of that claim today.
The Republicans and the Democrats put enormous resources into the election. The richest man in the world is bankrolling Trump. Thousands of volunteers are working for Harris, including good friends of mine. Given this level of effort, I tend to doubt that whatever Russia does could be a significant factor.
Here's an interesting look at the Steele dossier.
DeleteAnd here's a good summary of the larger "Russiagate" story.
We were not fooled by a claim that Russian interference helped Trump. The Mueller Report confirmed that Russia intervened on Trump's behalf and members of Trump's team knew about it. What is unconfirmed is whether the Trump campaign actually worked in conjunction with the Russians.
"Significance" is a difficult measure to take. In an election decided by a few thousand votes in a handful of states, a small influence can have an outsized effect on the outcome.
And re: the number of years since Steele:
DeleteWe can split the difference and call it 5 years. The dossier was compiled for the 2016 campaign, but it became known to the public in 2019.
"We were once fooled by a claim that Russian interference helped Trump get elected."
DeleteIt is indisputable that Russian interference helped Trump get elected. What we can never do is quantify, in terms of votes, just how helpful it was.
“It is indisputable” means “I am providing no evidence of my assertion”
DeleteThe evidence is included in the comments above. You should have seen it there, so Hector need not repeat it.
DeleteHere's some more evidence:
Delete"Donald Trump's former campaign adviser stands accused of working with the Russians and laundering cash they paid him, prosecutors announced Thursday.
Dimitri Simes, a Russian-born U.S. citizen who advised Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, is named in a Justice department indictment accusing him and his wife Anastasia of accepting more than $1 million, a car, and driver as payment from the state television network, a press release shows."
It helped that the fucking criminal pardoned Manafort and others, as he promised he would if they just don't rat him out.
Delete'“It is indisputable” means “I am providing no evidence of my assertion”'
DeleteMy apologies, David. My post was aimed at those with a more substantial news diet than your own.
The evidence you seek can be found in the Mueller Report (see excerpts from my post at 12:58 above), subsequent indictments of Russian nationals, and findings of the GOP-led Senate Select Committee on Intelligence issued in July 2018.
Do you need me to link you to them, or can you do that all by yourself?
You'll need to do it for him. However, he still won't read it.
DeleteIt's indisputable that Mueller found Russian interference. But it's hard to understand what evidence has been provided that it helped Trump get elected. What exactly is that evidence?
DeleteDavid,
DeleteOnce the media collectively disappeared the open bigotry of Trump for the reason he was elected, stories like Russiagate were inevitable.
Neither the Mueller Report or GOP-led Senate Select Committee on Intelligence issued in July 2018 assert the Russian interference helped Trump get elected.
DeleteThe interference in question was 50 thousands dollars worth of very amateurish Facebook ads.
DeleteJust a few quotes frm the Mueller Report for context:
DeleteCoordination with the Russian Government:
Investigation of Coordination
"The investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
Conspiracy or Coordination
"The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
Efforts to Change the Republican Party Platform on Ukraine
"The investigation did not establish that one Campaign official’s efforts to dilute a portion of the Republican Party platform on providing assistance to Ukraine were undertaken at the behest of candidate Trump or Russia."
General Contacts Between Trump Campaign and Russia
"The investigation examined whether these contacts involved or resulted in coordination or a conspiracy with the Trump Campaign and Russia, including with respect to Russia providing assistance to the Campaign in exchange for any sort of favorable treatment in the future. Based on the available information, the investigation did not establish such coordination."
Specific Incidents:
Manafort's Polling Data Sharing
"No evidence was found connecting Manafort’s sharing of polling data to Russian election interference. The investigation did not establish any further coordination."
Post-Election Russian Contacts
"After the election, Russian contacts were made with Trump Campaign and Transition Team officials, but the investigation found no coordination related to election interference."
Summary Conclusion:
"Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities."
That Trump was colluding with Russia is a total fantasy. It's an insane and preposterous assertion. That the Russian interference had any effect on the outcome of the election is indetectable but equally as crazy.
DeleteGuys - here is every single one of the Facebook ads that made up Russia's scary Russian interference that "helped Trump get elected".
DeleteWhich one do you think was most effective?
https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/hpsci-11-1/hpsci-minority-open-hearing-exhibits.htm
Keep in mind you're claiming just over $100,000 worth of poorly targeted Facebook advertising could swing a presidential election.
Keep in mind the interference added up to 80,000 Facebook posts in total and Americans saw 33 trillion posts in their Facebook news feeds between 2015 and 2017.
And that the Russian Facebook ad buy was $1,979 in Wisconsin, $823 in Michigan and $300 in Pennsylvania.
3:36 PM
DeleteAn indictment is not evidence and the accusation is something that happened in 2022.
I don't think the founding fathers ever considered that the power of the pardon by the chief executive would be used to cover up his own criminality.
DeleteYes, the witness tampering, the obstruction, and the removal of the AG for a corrupt AG worked, trollboy.
6:03,
DeleteGood point.
If the media hadn't first come out and claimed the "economic anxiousness" of Republican voters (can you imagine??) as the reason Trump was elected in 2016, Russiagate wouldn't have looked so plausible in comparison.
Re. the Russia's frightening fifty thousand dollar Facebook interference, keep in mind Mueller "did not identify evidence that any U.S. persons conspired or coordinated with the IRA."
DeleteKeep in mind re. the Trump Tower meeting, Mueller said "the investigation did not identify evidence connecting the events of June 9 to the GRU’s hack-and-dump operation."
DeleteKeep in mind re. Manafort and polling data Mueller said "The Office did not identify evidence of a connection between Manafort’s sharing polling data and Russia’s interference in the election, which had already been reported by U.S. media outlets at the time of the August 2 meeting. The investigation did not establish that Manafort otherwise coordinated with the Russian government on its election interference efforts."
DeleteRemember, Mueller found no evidence that any Campaign official or associate knowingly and intentionally took part in the conspiracy to defraud, as outlined in Volume I, Section II. As a result, no Campaign associate or U.S. individual was charged with conspiracy.
Delete(page 188)
Don't forget an investigation into the Steele Dossier and Crossfire Hurricane found significant issues with the FBI’s handling of intelligence on alleged Trump-Russia collusion. The Steele Dossier, a key source for FISA surveillance, was largely based on unverified rumors and casual conversation from Igor Danchenko, who admitted he couldn't corroborate its allegations. The FBI omitted exculpatory evidence, failed to properly investigate Danchenko’s credibility, and ignored his prior involvement in a counterintelligence probe. Charles Dolan, a Democratic Party associate, was found to have fabricated information that appeared in the dossier. An FBI attorney also falsified a document used to obtain a FISA warrant. The report highlighted confirmation bias, lack of investigative rigor, and reliance on politically connected sources.
Delete6:12 PM Actually, the founding fathers debated that issue during the Constitutional Convention in 1787. Eg.
DeleteJames Madison acknowledged the danger but believed impeachment could act as a check, stating that "if the president be connected in any suspicious manner with any persons, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter himself, the House of Representatives can impeach him.". And George Mason raised concerns about the potential abuse of the pardon power, saying the president "ought not to have the power of pardoning, because he may frequently pardon crimes which were advised by himself." He worried this could allow the president to "pardon treason," effectively covering up his own involvement in criminal activities.
Guys - these are all of the Russian Facebook ads from 2016.
DeleteWhich one was the most effective in swaying voters to Trump?
This is the Russian interference of which you speak and of which you have been propagandized to think was meaningful.
So you must have an opinion on which one did the most damage.
https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/hpsci-11-1/hpsci-minority-open-hearing-exhibits.htm
Hector - I would like to hear from you if you don't mind. Where is the evidence that you snarkily insisted you had provided that indisputably showed Russian interference helped Trump get elected?
DeleteSo now we are told by the DOJ and "U.S. Government Officials" and " U.S. Intelligence and Law Enforcement Agencies" that following social media personalities are being funded by Russia: Tim Pool, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, Lauren Southern, Taylor Hansen and Matt Christiansen.
DeleteHowever the DOJ indictment does not name any company, and says the influencers were unaware of the true funding sources and does not accuse them of any wrongdoing.
Isn't it so scary!!??
6:29,
DeleteIf it’s what you say I love it especially later in the Summer.
7:04 Just what we all knew and what is obvious. You got nothing.
DeleteIt's an old Right-wing saying that means "Get away from me you criminal, America-hating piece of shit".
DeleteYet, you responded anyway. What gives?
6:29,
DeleteDid you find that on Hunter Biden's laptop?
So, let's review: "Four years ago, Trump was attacked for fictional Russian connection, based on the baseless Steele Dossier."
DeleteNo one can dispute this with any evidence. And no one can claim it is indisputable that Russian interference helped Trump get elected.
Goodnight.
6:49,
DeleteYou poor little lamb. Didn't Fox News tell you any of this?
https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/dl
The Mueller report found (all quotes below from pp 1-2 of Introduction to Volume 1):
the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the (Trump) Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”
Mueller described “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.”
He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”
He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/committee-findings-2017-intelligence-community-assessment
The Senate Intelligence Committee, chaired by Sen. Burr (R-NC), evaluated intelligence community assessments (ICAs) in its report. One such assessment was:
Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump
About this intelligence community assessment, the Committee concluded:
• The Committee found that the ICA provided a range of all-source reporting to support these assessments.
• The Committee concurs with intelligence and open-source assessments that this influence campaign was approved by President Putin.
• Further, a body of reporting, to include different intelligence disciplines, open source reporting on Russian leadership policy preferences, and Russian media content, showed that Moscow sought to denigrate Secretary Clinton.
The Committee also noted that:
• The ICA relies on public Russian leadership commentary, Russian state media reports, public examples of where Russian interests would have aligned with candidates' policy statements, and a body of intelligence reporting to support the assessment that Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for Trump.
“
Where is the indisputable evidence that Russian interference helped Trump get elected?
DeleteHector - thanks for letting us know the ICA provided a range of all-source reporting to support these assessments. Cool!!!
DeleteA Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Right? Here is every single element of that social media campaign.
Which one do you think most influenced people to vote for Trump?
https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/hpsci-11-1/hpsci-minority-open-hearing-exhibits.htm
This is an event they set up - thousands of people attended - in New York.
Deletehttps://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/anti_hrc_event_.pdf
If they were serious - why didn't they do that in a swing state?
Here's one of the scary Russian ads in the social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton that favored presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Did you know many of the ads favored presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and that a majority of them did not have anything to do with the election at all?
Deletehttps://abcnews.go.com/Technology/check-russian-ads-facebook-2016-election/story?id=52010115
Hector - Russia spent $823 in Michigan on these ads. (in a multibillion dollar election). Which ones do you think helped Trump get elected?
DeleteHector - provide us with that indisputable evidence you mentioned when you get a chance.
Delete"Where is the indisputable evidence that Russian interference helped Trump get elected?"
DeleteI gess u don't read so gud.
8:35,
Deletewho told you it was entirely about social media, Mike Lindelll?
You haven't provided indisputable evidence Russian interference helped Trump get elected. Mueller didn't claim that. Senate Intelligence didn't claim it - nothing you posted about did either.
DeleteTells us all about it! Tell us about the bots!! Show us the indisputable evidence Russian interference helped Trump get elected.
DeleteYou can't because their isn't any. It's indetectable.
DeleteAnd no, if $100k of Facebook ads (and anything else you would like to mention) could swing an election, everyone would do it. It's a fantasy. Sorry.
I'd suggest a reading tutor that emphasizes phonics. They could probably get you up to a 3rd grade level in no time.
DeleteEnglish is a difficult language. Lots of words have multiple meanings. Like when the GOP-led Committe concluded Russia had 'denigrated' Clinton. That could mean anything, right?
Delete'Denigrate' is such an ambiguous term. It doesn't mean Russia was helping Trump.
Anonymous is making up those Facebook amounts to deflect Mueller Report findings. It is troll damage control.
DeleteRussia 'denigrating' Clinton is not indisputable evidence their interference helped Trump get elected. The evidence of denigration may suggest a negative impact on Clinton, but it does not prove that Russian interference directly led to Trump’s election victory. You would have to quantify the extent of denigration, who was exposed to it, and whether the denigration swayed a significant number of voters.
DeleteAds and campaigns can denigrate a candidate without being decisive in an election. Elections are influenced by a variety of factors. To establish indisputable evidence, one must demonstrate that the Russian interference was a critical and determining factor among these variables.
So please show us this evidence when you have a chance.
Interesting. You're just about exactly as dumb as Mike L! ;)
Good thread. David in Ca, along with other gutter MAGA folk, have been lying their pasty butts off about Impeachment 1 for years. The new incitements underscore this. We’ll see if Bob finds a way to comment.
DeleteIf Russia was really trying to help Trump, the majority (or pretty close to it) of Republican Congresspeople would be compromised by Russian intelligence.
DeleteAs everyone knows, that's practically not even the case.
Why would Russia want to help someone who doesn't understand what NATO means, be elected President of their sworn enemy?
DeleteWow, with the revelation yesterday of Russian payoffs to right wing idiots polluting our national discourse, the treasonous bastard Russian simps came out in force yesterday.
Delete"The evidence of denigration may suggest a negative impact on Clinton, but it does not prove that Russian interference directly led to Trump’s election victory."
DeleteRight. But then no one said it did. So who are you rebutting? Who are you arguing with, except yourself?
The statement that launched a thousand posts was that Russia 'helped' Trump.
Denigrating Clinton is helping Trump. Helping Trump is not the same as 'directly leading to Trump's victory..' Learn to read.
"Tells us all about it! Tell us about the bots!! Show us the indisputable evidence Russian interference helped Trump get elected."
DeleteYou'll never see this evidence.
Just like you'll never see the Republican voters who care about something other than bigotry and white supremacy.
Hector,
DeleteI should learn to read sentences like this one that you wrote?
"It is indisputable that Russian interference helped Trump get elected."
Or learn to read the post above where you say that is not the same as saying Russian interference "directly led to Trump's victory."?
Cool!!!
So, let's review:
- There is no indisputable evidence that Russian interference helped Trump get elected.
- The main charge against Trump was that his campaign colluded with Russia but Mueller found that "the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities" and he could not identify any evidence at all that "any U.S. persons conspired or coordinated with the IRA."
- The ICA provided a range of all-source reporting to support the assessment that Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency but they say nothing about the scope and impact of such goals.
- Hector thinks I need to learn how to read.
- When Democrats make easily disprovable claims about Trump and Russia because it makes them feel good, it ends up helping Trump while making Democrats look reeeally dumb. Which why it is and always has been a really dumb idea and why I have always been against it.
Suppose you decide you want to learn how to read. But you don't have a car to drive to the reading clinic. So I drive you to the clinic.
DeleteSuppose further (and this is, I admit, a bit fanciful) at the clinic you do learn how to read.
Then it is indisputable that I helped you learn to read by driving you to the clinic. But it is not true that my driving you to the clinic caused you to learn to read, or even was the decisive factor (after all you could have walked or taken the bus).
See the difference? No, you probably don't. Okay, suppose I drove you to a clinic on how to think....
For that analogy to work, you would have to prove the Russian interference was:
Delete- Successful in changing voter behavior.
- Widespread enough to reach many voters.
- Targeted effectively to influence key voter groups.
- Impactful in critical regions or states where small changes could determine the outcome.
- A meaningful contributor relative to other factors in the election.
This is where we diverge. Your analogy assumes that even a minor contribution (like driving to the clinic) can be considered "help" but I am asserting the impact of the interference in a complex, multi-billion dollar election was too small to matter and must be proved to make a claim it helped Trump get elected. We don't know that did. We know it was intended to but that's it.
Eg. if someone else took me to the reading clinic in a car that you helped change the oil once a few years ago led you to claim it is indisputable that you helped me learn to read.
Today Somerby notes that things change as time passes.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sage!
Russia is a hoax, Russia is a hoax, Russia is a hoax!
ReplyDeleteOh wait...nevermind.
Meanwhile, the cable sources Somerby thinks are "new" are actually less popular now than social media. Somerby doesn't seem to have a clue where people are getting their news today or how that works. Further, Somerby's claim that there was no "talk radio" is wrong. There were several radio and late night demagogues (Father Coughlin, Anita Bryant, Joe Pine), and there were talk radio shows on public radio, and lots of conservative radio hosts outside major cities (on primarily country music stations). Limbaugh became big with syndication, which may have been a new development nationwide, not the existence of such shows. Steve Allen did call-in and man-on-the-street interviews, transitioning from radio to TV via wrestling announcing, not that he was a demagogue. Just saying that Limbaugh didn't invent his genre, as Somerby seems to suggest. Christian broadcasting arose from local TV shows featuring religious demagogues like Aimee Semple McPherson in Los Angeles. What was new with cable was the collusion between the Republicans and dedicated right and alt-right media, making them a propaganda arm instead of journalism. Somerby won't go there -- he keeps blaming this on partisanship and pretending the left owns networks too when it doesn't. He is dedicated to his false equivalence so that he can berate the left and pretend he isn't pushing Trump's candidacy himself.
ReplyDeleteSomerby seems to pull his "history" out of his own memory and it rarely conforms to history found in places like Wikipedia and historical books on media.
Laura Ingalls Wilder had nothing to do with media, obviously. She wrote children's books. Indians would take issue with the idea that no people lived in those forests -- it is one of the criticisms of her series of books, that they didn't deal fairly or accurately with the people indigenous to the woods where her stories took place, representing the Indians in her stories (and on the later TV show) in a bigoted way.
https://lisahoweler.com/2021/04/29/was-laura-ingalls-wilder-racist/
https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/steve-allen
Odd that the State of GA doesn't seem to exist for Somerby. Yesterday, two days after the start of classes, the state experienced its 13th mass school shooting of the year (45th nationwide). Does Somerby even notice? Does he care about gun violence affecting children in schools? Not much, judging by his preoccupation with JFK's campaign, ensconced securely in the past.
ReplyDeleteGA has extremely lax gun laws. It's right wing political representatives sent out election flyers posing with their firearms, yes, including Marjorie Taylor Greene. They apparently have no interest in stopping the carnage. And Somerby has never spoken out about gun control in his own blog. And he won't. Because that's the kind of guy he is.
Why, exactly, is getting as many guns into the hands of criminals as possible, such a foundational aspect of the Republican party's platform?
DeleteThe father has been charged with manslaughter in the Florida case. The FBI had been out to the house to talk to the family about the kids online school shooting threats. Then the Dad bought the kid a gun for Christmas.
DeleteBob, as he did in the horrible case of the MAGA Crumblys, may just feel bad for the Dad.
Should be Georgia case.
DeleteWhat a fucking party:
ReplyDeleteTexas attorney general sues county for trying to mail registration forms to unregistered voters
How dare you try to encourage voter registration.
What the fuck is wrong with your party, Dickhead?
I hope the Texas AG used #freedom when he filed the suit.
DeleteQuoting Ball Four. Very sly.
ReplyDeleteMore brawls in hockey, so it is clear there isn’t as much hitting as Somerby says.
Delete