SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2024
...it's Pacific-10 greatness again: We could imagine a different tone shaping the New York Times news report.
We could imagine placing the news report on the Times' front page. (In this morning's print editions, the report in question appears on page A21.)
To our ear, the report starts with a somewhat jocular tone. Print edition headline included, the news report starts like this:
Threats Unnerve Ohio City After Trump’s False Claims
The dogs and cats of Springfield, Ohio, appear to be perfectly safe, but many of its people are finding their lives upended this week by political rumormongering that has resulted in multiple bomb threats, school closures and a decision to dispatch the F.B.I.
Ever since former President Donald J. Trump claimed on national television that undocumented migrants were stealing and devouring the household pets of Springfield—“they’re eating the dogs,” he practically shouted, “they’re eating the cats”—the rhythms and routines in the city have not been the same.
Never mind that city authorities have refuted the story and that many residents called it ridiculous. The furor created by Mr. Trump during Tuesday night’s presidential debate has put Springfield in the cross-hairs of the nation’s political wars. For the past two days, bomb threats have proliferated, closing City Hall, schools and a motor vehicles office. F.B.I. agents have descended on the community to guard against danger not to animals but to humans.
The unexpected and unwanted attention generated by Mr. Trump’s false stories led to real-life confusion and anxiety for some residents. Schools have been evacuated, children sheltered at home and parents forced to make other plans during the workday. Gethro Jean, a Haitian pastor, said that he had been fielding questions from congregants who were concerned about attending church on Sunday.
Let's be fair! By paragraph 4, readers have been told, more than once, that there have been bomb threats and evacuations of schools.
On the other hand, the 33-paragraph news report begins with a somewhat jocular tone. The dogs and cats of the city appear to be safe, readers are told in a somewhat whimsical manner.
Stating the obvious, there's no perfect way to report a news event. That said:
At least as a theoretical manner, we could imagine seeing a report about these events on the front page of this major newspaper, not on page A21. Also, we could imagine a different tone, and a somewhat different focus, as this lengthy report begins.
We plan to start with this topic tomorrow. We'll spend the week examining some of the problems facing the Democratic Party's nominee as the fall campaign, post-debate, finally goes full bore.
That nominee says she's the underdog in the race. To the extent that we could even make a guess, we'd be inclined to agree with that assessment.
Also, we don't know. At any rate:
Starting tomorrow, we plan to explore some of the problems confronting that nominee. For today, though, it's more of the same:
It's enduring Pacific-10 greatness.
Yesterday, it happened again! One of our dominant Pacific-10 teams vanquished a higher-rated team from the Midwest:
College football / September 14, 2024
Washington State: 24
Washington: 19
The outcome evoked a thousand Rose Bowl wins. Big-10 football went down once again. Regional greatness prevailed.
"There is never any ending to Paris," Hemingway wrote at the end of A Moveable Feast (original 1964 edition). Let's present the start of his final paragraph at slightly greater length:
There is never any ending to Paris and the memory of each person who has lived in it differs from that of any other. We always returned to it no matter who we were or how it was changed or with what difficulties, or ease, it could be reached. Paris was always worth it and you received return for whatever you brought to it...
There's one more sentence after that. At that point, the memoir ends.
There's never an ending to Paris, Hemingway said, no matter how it has changed. Very frankly, it's a bit like that with the ongoing greatness of the Pacific-10.
Why tease Hemingway's last sentence:
ReplyDelete"But this is how Paris was in the early days when we were very poor and very happy.”
Does being poor and being happy affect one's memories of a place? Almost certainly.
Somerby is being sappily nostalgic about the Pac 10, which perhaps makes sense to football fans, but none at all to those of us who don't follow and thus do not care about the Pac 10. The Rockies beat the Cubs, which is fine because we will take any victory we can get.
Somerby is equally nostalgic for the good old days of media, back when Cronkite got on tv and told you what to think and then went off and partied with Republicans and their corporate donor class.
DeleteI do not understand why anyone is making bomb threats against schools or public offices in Springfield OH. What political point does that even make? This seems like random violence. Does anyone think the school kids or the DMV are eating pets? What is going on?
ReplyDeleteWhat is going on? Donald Trump poisons everything he touches, that's what has been going on for the last 9 years. And the fucking Fraternal Order of Police have endorsed the reckless son-of-a-bitch who incited an attack on our Capitol.
Delete"De-fund the police" is the moderate/ centrist position.
DeleteThe USA would be a lot safer country, if the police would stop selling their guns to criminals.
DeleteThe threats are a misguided attempt to terrorize the migrants, and make them leave. Additionally, the threats are coming from Trump who is desperate to juice his dying campaign, or from Trump supporters who want to show loyalty to Trump and demonstrate their ginned up anger at The Other; either way, we are dealing with people who, due to the circumstances of their backgrounds, are incapable of being rational when they feel challenged.
DeleteI've been to Paris but also to a lot of other world cities. It seems to me that what made Paris special to Hemingway is that he was there. If he were somewhere else, that might be his special place. Someone going to Paris and expecting it to be like it was when the lost generation was there, would be very disappointed.
ReplyDeleteI am finding that Somerby makes a fuss about a lot of writers and poets who I don't particularly admire. A week or so ago it was e.e. cummings, who turns out to be a Republican admirer of Joseph McCarthy. Now it is Hemingway who was an alcoholic womanizer who wrote stories Tucker Carlson would like, glorifying toxic masculinity.
Agree, well said.
Delete"The dogs and cats of the city appear to be safe, readers are told in a somewhat whimsical manner."
ReplyDeleteA lot of people care about dogs and cats. They wouldn't consider the tone whimsical but respectful of the importance people place on their pets. Somerby's attitude is less than respectful, in my opinion.
The reason why Republicans might think that their disinformation about Haitian immigrants would work is that people get upset when animals are harmed. Further, the harming of animals signifies someone is less than human, because torturing animals is the hallmark of a psychopath. Trump's goal is to portray immigrants as less than human, so claiming that they eat pets is to characterize them as horrible people, less than human, not like us because we treat pets like children. So Trump is saying the equivalent of Haitians eat babies, when he claims they eat pets.
Somerby may wish to diminish the impact of this disinformation, spread deliberately by Trump and Vance. However, the way to do it is not to suggest that people care too much about dogs and cats, which is what Somerby does when he characterizes the jounalist's tone as whimsical. Whether Americans should care more about other people (such as Haitians) than they do about animals the way to do that is to say so directly, not mischaracterize the journalist's attitude toward them. It makes more sense that this journalist was reassuring people that no animals were harmed in the writing of the column, than to belittle the importance of animals to people in our culture, which is plainly Somerby's attitude.
Trump and Vance do not like pets. Trump has no pets. That makes him suspect to those who do. Vance had to walk on eggshells to remind his audiences that he has nothing against cats, just women who like cats. And that is why he is such a creepy guy, so weird. Because pets ARE important to normal human beings in our culture. I think Trump and Vance are both way out of step on this, not least because of their own personality flaws. Reinforcing that in the public mind is the wrong way to attract votes. But Somerby is no better, in my opinion.
"Somerby may wish to diminish the impact of this disinformation, spread deliberately by Trump and Vance."
DeleteHe may want to. But there isn't any evidence that he does.
"Russell Moore: “The accusation that Haitian immigrants in a small Ohio city are abducting and eating their neighbors’ cats and dogs relies not on one falsehood but on a web of them. The rhetoric evokes racist tropes about ‘savages’ who do not conform to our civilized Western world. There’s also a religious angle: the idea that Haitian refugees are voodoo occultists who might be worshipping the devil.”
Delete“As an evangelical Christian who actually believes in the existence of Satan, I agree that we can indeed see the work of the devil at play here, only it’s not on the menu of the Haitian families but rather in the cruelty of those willing to lie about them.”
So, this is a dog whistle to religious fanatics (Q-Anon, for example). But again, where are the bomb threats coming from and what do they mean? Trump today said that Haitian migrants have taken over Springfield, but what would targeting schools with bombs have to do with that? Is this terrorism aimed at making Haitian migrants leave?
I don't think the memes help portray Trump as a serious candidate. They work against his competence, in my opinion.
DeleteWhy would a lie about cats and dogs be coming from undecided voters? What is your rationale about that?
DeleteTrump is too a serious candidate. Just today, he posted “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!” like the adult he is.
DeleteTrump continues to drop in the polls, the notion that his dangerous and racist rhetoric on Haitian migrants is doing anything positive for Trump is just laughable, and speaks to the desperation of his supporters to even attempt to push such an obvious falsehood. Indeed, the more Trump and his supporters double down on the “they’re eating the dogs”, the deeper they dig their own grave, more power to them.
DeleteI'm waiting for Trump and/or his supporters to make false denigrating comments about Jews followed by a rash of attacks on synagogues. Should make DIC very happy if it can be spun to win Trump votes.
DeleteVance went on CNN this morning to tell Dana Bash he has to lie to the American people and is quite happy to do it.
DeleteGo fuck yourself, Dickhead in Cal.
Your baseless opinion is very important to you, so enjoy. Trump just tweeted that he hates Taylor Swift. Should win him the election in your private world. Maybe it is time for your family to organize an intervention, the way Trump was carted off for a dementia workup on a Saturday years ago.
DeleteDickhead, it is the act of a desperate madman, similar to how Hitler ordered the rocket attacks on London.
Delete12:07 your false claim only serves to minimize your credibility. In reality, Trump is dropping in the polls, in particular with undecided voters.
Delete@11:51 I think your point is shown on this 3 minute snippet from the interview. https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/15/politics/video/jd-vance-haitian-immigrants-baseless-pet-eating-claims-bash-sotu-digvid
DeleteI invite people to watch it and decide for your self.
BTW I recommend this snippet from the same interview. It shows that Vance is a very effective presenter on adversarial TV interviews.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/09/15/jd_vance_to_cnns_dana_bash_i_noticed_you_gave_kamala_harris_and_tim_walz_multiple_choice_questions_and_didnt_interrupt_their_answers.html
Vance clearly said he and Trump have to "create stories" about migrants eating cats and dogs "so the American media actually pays attention..."
Delete"we are creating a story"
Go fuck yourself, Dickhead.
DIC is about as authentic as that microsoft tech named Steve speaking in an Indian accent who wants you to give him control of your computer.
DeleteDavid,
Deletewhen Trump and Vance tell us something, how do we know if they're telling the truth or 'creating stories'?
Side note: those rockets were later repurposed by the US to eventually help us land men on the moon, an effort headed up by Nazi sympathizer Wernher von Braun (he used Jews as slave labor in developing those V2 rockets) that was in part sparked by him providing technical support on a Fritz Lang movie called Woman in the Moon.
DeleteJust yesterday, Dickhead in Cal posted essentially the very same thing Vance conceded on CNN today.
Delete**********
David in CalSeptember 14, 2024 at 12:42 PM
Hector - Neither point resonates much with me.
Trump's comment showed that Trump is a big liar, but I already knew that.
To say that the comment shows Trump is crazy could hardly be more false. This is a smart, sensible, well-chosen lie that IMO will help Trump's campaign.
The accusation that Haitians eat pets doesn't make me anti-Haitian, because I don't believe it.
**********
Here is Dickhead in Cal clearly cheering the employment of a "smart, sensible, well-chosen lie that IMO will help Trump's campaign."
JD just went on CNN and said the very same fucking thing, but now Dickhead in Cal wants to argue about it.
You are fucking depraved, David.
Vance, the least popular VP pick in modern times, has returned to wearing eyeliner.
DeleteVance is a drag on Trump’s campaign, but Trump is losing support on his own account.
Personal responsibility, folks!
@12:44 you deplore Trump's lies, but you overlook Harris's lies. In my book they're both liars.
DeleteBTW exaggerating to drive home a political point is normal. E.g., there have been countless exaggerations about threat of climate change. These exaggerations help make the world more concerned and more apt to take useful action.
Welp, DiC is the energizer bunny of intransigent recidivist Trump apologists. Its a wonder to observe it.
DeleteMake up your fucking mind, Dickhead! We already know Trump is a fucking coward punk bully racist prick, sinking in the polls and desperate to incite some violence in a small town in Ohio. He ain't fucking exaggerating you, double talking bastard. He's lying.
DeleteThis is why it’s better to ignore trolls like DIC and not respond to them. They are never genuine or argue in good faith, they get off on baiting and triggering others. The best way to handle such people is to ignore them, and they will fade away instead of being inspired to troll more and spread more disinformation.
DeleteDiC: "...it allows Trump to present himself as concerned about the welfare of pets..."
Delete...and completely unconcerned about the safety of human beings affected by his insane tale.
Is this "expert super-persuasion" again, David?
"exaggerating to drive home a political point is normal"
Delete1. Sure. But they're not exaggerating. Exaggeration would be to say that 10 cats were eaten when it was only one.
They're lying. There's saying an unspecified number were being eaten when there was none.
2. They're unapologetic. As a true Trumpian should, Vance took on a righteous tone when Dana Bash confronted him about the lies.
But if it helps him get elected, I guess it's okay. After all, Trump will make the trains run on time.
I take your point, Hector. However another way to look at it would be that the Haitians are a burden on Springfield. Trump exaggerated that point by pointing to a false type of burden. Trump also pointed out valid ways in which the Haitians are a burden on the citizens of Springfield.
DeleteTrump’s lie helped the people of Springfield. Thanks to the fuss he created, the state gave millions of dollars to Springfield to help them deal with the burden created by the huge influx of immigrants.
I don't find evidence from google that Trump 'pointed out valid ways in which the Haitians are a burden' to Springfield.
DeleteAny concrete help now being provided to Springfield is an accidental, not intended, result of Trump's lying, which was done to get himself elected.
Hector - I didn’t find such evidence either, so maybe I was wrong. I heard Vance making the point regarding the burden on services, so I assumed Trump had made the same point.
Delete"It shows that Vance is a very effective presenter on adversarial TV interviews."
DeleteOK, so he lies--but he's really good at it!
Meanwhile, here in Colorado, the apartment residents who were supposedly being threatened by Venezuelan gang members are now receiving death threats from anti-immigrant vigilantes:
Delete"Many residents of the apartment buildings in question are receiving death threats and fear for their safety, not from the Venezuelan gang but from would-be vigilantes who are threatening the residents with violence."
I keep hearing that there is nothing Trump can say or do to make his voters turn against him. Bullshit.
DeleteLet Trump call for reparations to black people, and watch how quickly he never gets another Republican vote.
Dickhead in Cal, furiously looking for the diamond in the pile of shit that is Trump.
DeleteHow fucking stupid are you, Dickhead? Or are you just blowing smoke?
The Governor of Ohio is a republican and supported the migrant program for Springfield. Why the fuck would he need Donald J Chickenshit spreading inflammatory hateful racist lies to increase funding for that city? Trump's own VP running mate is a goddam US Senator representing the state of Ohio and didn't lift a goddamn finger until now.
Ask the fucking Haitian migrant workers if they appreciate the "help" from that fascist prick you adore. Ask the schools that are receiving bomb threats. Ask the hospitals that had to close due to Trump's little army of Nazis' threats.
Ask Trump's new fascist advisor, Laura Looma what she meant by suggesting people take the law into their own hands in Springfield.
Go fuck yourself, David.
Trump isn't trying to help the Haitian migrant workers, he is now campaigning on deporting them all to Venezuela, you dumb bastard, Dickhead.
DeleteTrump is smart to go all in on bigotry. After all, he's trying to get elected President by Republican voters. What would you rather him do, talk about economics and watch their eyes glaze over in confusion?
Delete"Donald Trump falsely claimed that Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau is the son of former Cuban dictator Fidel Castro in Save America, the former president’s new photo book that also provides commentary, Politico reports."
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting because it shows the intensification of bigotry in Springfield in response to Trump's disinformation during the debate:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/fascist-fuckery-intensifies-in-springfield
The Proud Boys and the KKK are on-site with their hate messages. Bombers are now sending threats to hospitals.
He also mentions that the NY Times, in keeping with Nazi stereotyping of Jews in Germany in the 30s, is running a story about a Haitian who was in a minor car accident in Springfield, in a "all Hatitians are criminals" sort of article. What possible relevance could such an article have to anything in NYC or nationally, except to target and label migrants as bad people, in keeping with Trump's campaign? This is ugly stuff and our major paper of record is egging the bigots on.
A cute cartoon about why we need to vote for Harris and not Trump:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2024/09/15/for-non-political-geeks/
Schoolhouse Rock version of the Project 2025 plan.
Christopher Rufo's claim to have verified the cat-eating is fake:
ReplyDeletehttps://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2024/09/jd-vance-and-chris-rufos-pet-eatuing.html
The wrong immigrants (African) in the wrong city (Dayton) supposedly grilling cats but in reality making a fake video. This is what happens when someone like Rufo offers a $5000 bounty for evidence supporting a bogus claim.
While noticing what he calls a jocular tone in a story about vile accusations leading to bomb threats, Somerby provides his own jocular tone by including a discussion of football.
ReplyDeleteSteve M. at No More Mister Nice Blog, suggests that Trump isn't the source of all of his disinformation, so when he loses, the disinformation may not go away:
ReplyDelete"The GOP cult is a disinformation cult -- followers want to believe any lie that reinforces their belief that the people they hate are evil -- but the lies come from multiple sources. In that post a year ago, I provided a partial list: "Steve Bannon and Christopher Rufo and Jack Posobiec and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Candace Owens and Elon Musk and Andrew Tate and Moms for Liberty and dozens of other people who aren't Trump." Let's add Elon Musk and J.D. Vance and Benny Johnson and Donald Trump Jr. and Chaya Raichik and Catturd and whoever runs End Wokeness, a superspreader of the cat story. Who's radicalizing your Trumpist neighbors? The people I've named are as much at fault as Donald Trump -- if not more so. And they'll be doing this long after Trump is gone, unless the GOP has suffered a series of defeats so bruising that it cuts the disinformationists loose."
https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2024/09/trump-is-not-really-leader-of-his-own.html
Is Trump fucking Loomer (the Loomer that just outed Lindsay Graham as being gay after he called Trump’s debate performance a “disaster”)?
ReplyDeleteGutfeld wants to know, but is too shy to ask.
Sure, Melania looks like an alien these days, after all the “work” she has done to herself, but Lordy, Loomer is barely a notch above Ginni Thomas who is harder to look at than an autopsy.
But seriously, calm down folks, there’s no way even a gold digger like Loomer, spelunking for years in the dark caverns of Trump’s jelly fat rolls, could locate Trump’s tiny penis. And even the world’s best gas mask wouldn’t be effective against Trump’s stench.
No, let’s face it, Trump’s fucking/raping days are over, other than whatever awaits him in prison. Good riddance!
Amen.
DeleteVance on CNN today: “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that's what I'm going to do," Vance said.
ReplyDeleteApparently candidate Vance agrees with DiC. It's a "smart, well-chosen lie."
When you research it further, you may discover "creating stories" refers to news stories, not necessarily inventing lies about cats. “I say that we’re creating a story, meaning we’re creating the American media focusing on it” Vance said.
DeleteHe's promoting a tactic of steering media coverage toward what he views as underreported issues, like the strain on public services due to migration, by sharing these sensational memes. Whether or not it's a smart tactic, I can not judge.
Creating stories out of whole cloth for political gain would be something like the stories created about aluminum tubes that led to a trillion dollar war that we lost or the failed October surprise the Clinton campaign invented that the Trump campaign server was communicating with a Russian bank etc.etc.
Not to worry though - Trump will be killed in the next few months and we can get back to one big happy uniparty.
"He's promoting a tactic of steering media coverage toward what he views as underreported issues, like the strain on public services due to migration, by sharing these sensational memes.'
DeleteOr "telling lies about foreigners and poor people," in plain English.
Vance attempting to cover his tracks with lies about lies is hilarious except to rubes like 5:53 who earnestly implores us to research it further. No, we won't.
DeleteIf you research further, you may find it's more accurate to say, 'using false information that, even with a caveat, weakens his argument and risks misleading the public.'
DeleteI merely feel that if we use the 'telling stories' quote as a meme to criticize Vance and Trump, we should be mindful that he was referring to news stories, not stories about cats. This will help us avoid the same problems we faced with the 'very fine people' and 'If it’s what you say I love it, especially later in the summer' quotes, which may have hurt us more than they helped us after being repeatedly circulated without proper context.
DeleteIf people draw the conclusions these memes are intended to provoke, but later see the full context we’ve omitted, it creates resentment that can far outweigh any benefit we gained from using the out-of-context meme in the first place. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. So we should at least be aware of the context of the meme so we don't fall into the trap of overusing it as this can lead to diminishing returns, to say the least.
Delete5:53: He's the fucking US Senator representing that state, asshole. When did he go talk to the republican Governor of the state?
Delete7:04 I think it was a few minutes after he fucked your mother. Give or take a few hours.
Delete7:11: Why don't you save us all some time and fuck off, maggot.
DeleteOK. Let me get my cock out of your mother's mouth first.
Delete6:52, 7:01. Oh I see, in the broader context, blah, blah, blah. Only nobody is apologizing for calling out Trump's Charlottesville comments. Fine people do not congregate with torch carrying racists and antisemites, who identify as such with signage and chants. The comment was appalling in the real time aftermath of a murder at an event organized by right wing extremists. When the Springfield mayor and governor of Ohio warn against the very real risk of dangerous consequences from Vance/Trump lies, Vance's disingenuous back peddling is believeable to only the most gullible.
Delete"He's promoting a tactic of steering media coverage toward what he views as underreported issues, like the strain on public services due to migration
DeleteYou left out the lying part. He's steering media coverage by lying.
6:52,
Delete"If it’s what you say I love it, especially later in the summer'"
What was the exculpatory context for this quote to which you seem to refer?
You could say lying if you wish. You can call out Trump's Charlottesville comments and the rest in the same way if you wish and think it's is a smart political tactic. My point is that leaving out the context may do more harm than good. It's not like there's evidence promoting the Charlottesville comment in the way we have, in the way Harris did in the debate, has paid off for us. There is evidence of the opposite in that Trump is more popular with Blacks than any Republican in two generations. Say and do what you must but don't forget there may be adverse, unforeseen political consequences.
DeleteHector, can you tell me what you think is inculpatory about the statement? It is used to imply Trump was colluding with Russia, no?
DeleteThe statement itself was not used to imply collusion. It was used to show how open the Trump team was to receiving Russian assistance in the election, and possibly colluding with them.
DeleteIt was behavior you might call collusion-adjacent.
The statement does illustrate how open the Trump team was to receiving Russian assistance and suggests they may have been willing to collude. If framed that way, the statement is accurate and won't expose us to accusations of being misleading or disingenuous. However, many of us take the line out of context, implying that the Trump campaign was actively seeking help from Russia, which is false. Others use it to suggest that it proves actual collusion or coordination, which is also untrue. This is where the trouble starts, potentially leading to negative consequences that may outweigh the benefits of using it int he first place.
DeleteMany people don't realize that the 'damaging information' mentioned by the British music publicist in the original email to which Donald Trump Jr. responded with the controversial quote was never actually discussed during the meeting. And that there was no follow up on the part of any of the attendees.
DeleteAlong with all your other nonsense, Trump is not more popular “with Blacks”.
DeleteYour claims are not well reasoned, you’re an obvious troll, therefore your comments are wasted, as everyone here sees you as the irrelevant moron you are.
I'll believe minorities support the GOP's Presidential nominee, the day the GOP stops trying to suppress the votes of minorities.
DeleteIn other words, I'll never believe minorities support the GOP's Presidential nominee.
7:11,
DeleteMy Mother The Couch.
BTW Trump’s fuss may have hurt the Haitian immigrants, but it also helps them. Thanks to Trump’s fuss the state is proving extra support to Springfield. The extra support from the state will make things better for all residents of Springfield.
ReplyDeleteThis is the silver lining of Trump knowing that Republican voters only care about bigotry, that we have been waiting for.
DeleteNot a 'fuss', no matter how many times you say it.
ReplyDeleteIt was a series of lies aimed at helping his campaign, not the people of Springfield.
Yeah , someone was making a fuss about Trump this afternoon on a South Florida golf course.
ReplyDeleteTrump is being criticized for supposedly dangerous rhetoric, which has led to zero violence. OTOH Dems continue their dangerous anti-Trump rhetoric that led to two assassination attempts -- both close calls. It's time for Dems and their supporters to moderate their dishonest rhetoric about Trump being Hitler or ending Democracy or supporting Nazis and white nationalists.
ReplyDeleteYes, otherwise more Republicans will feel compelled to shoot him
DeleteIt's pretty clear that the first assassin was mentally disturbed. It seems likely that the second one was, too. But, that doesn't excuse the dangerous Democratic rhetoric. There are a lot of nuts around with access to rifles. Getting them in a homicidal mood is a bad idea.
DeleteIf an insane Democratic Springfieldian killed a Haitian, I would still blame Trump's rhetoric. Wouldn't you?
If the polls remain tied or he gets ahead in the polls, he will be killed. He will not be elected president again. This is America. What we do best, and what we are known for around the world, is killing people. That includes our presidents. We blow their heads off in public and leave their brains splattered all over their wives. We kill any president that may stand in the way of our futile infatuation with hegemony. You'll see. The question is how they will spin it and how we will live with ourselves for buying that spin.
DeleteDidn’t Vance call Trump America’s Hitler? Why, yes, he did.
DeleteIs it any better what Bob Somerby is doing, David? He’s spent the last 8 years calling Trump a sociopath/psychopath, among other things, and wishes that that would become a common theme when discussing Trump.
DeleteI’d say at least part of the problem is that mentally ill people in this country, unlike many others, have easy access to high powered weapons.
Delete"It's time for Dems and their supporters to moderate their dishonest rhetoric about Trump...ending Democracy"
DeleteWhat was Jan. 6? An attempt to end democracy. It's time for commenters to moderate their dishonest rhetoric and admit that.
"There are a lot of nuts around with access to rifles."
DeleteAnd no one can explain why! It's a mystery.
"Dems continue their dangerous anti-Trump rhetoric that led to two assassination attempts"
DeleteZero evidence.
Hector, I don't want to re-debate Jan. 6, but a group of unarmed demonstrators do not have the power to choose a President who wasn't actually elected. You cannot describe any scenario whereby the Jan 6 rioters could possibly have forced Trump to be selected as President.
DeleteNo, the Jan 6 demonstration and riot was an illegal, bad, ugly way to try to delay the finality of the election. This was really stupid. First of all, the election wasn't stolen. Even if the election had been stolen, as they imagined, that ship had sailed. There would have no way to prove it.
You never debated Jan 6 in the first place, you fucking disingenuous treasonous bastard. That ship didn't sail yet, Dickhead. Your fucking fascist candidate just last week claimed the election was stolen from him in front of more than 60 million people, you lying bastard. Pence got thrown under the bus. He has now selected a VP who is willing to do what Pence didn't do. That was the fucking plan, jerkoff. The plot to steal the election didn't start and end on Jan 6, fuckface.
Delete"Trump is being criticized for supposedly dangerous rhetoric, which has led to zero violence."
DeleteShort memory, DIC. January 6th, 2021.
Dishonest troll.
"You cannot describe any scenario whereby the Jan 6 rioters could possibly have forced Trump to be selected as President."
DeleteYou're arguing against a strawman you've created.
The goal, as stated by Trump, wasn't to have him installed in the White House by the J6 mob. It was to pressure Pence into 'sending the election results back to the States' so that Trump and the GOP congressment could keep twisting arms to overturn the certifications.
This isn't gonna be over until that fucking treasonous criminal you support gets his fat corrupt lying ass locked up in Federal Prison, David.
Delete7:44 Well, Nostradamus, we have had one presidential assassination in the last 60 years, but sure, it's inevitable, deep state and all.
DeleteBlaming democratic rhetoric for these two events without even a shred of supportive evidence is right up your ally. Keep up the good work.
DeleteHector, is it reasonable to call a goal to pressure Pence into 'sending the election results back to the States' an "attempt to end democracy"?
DeleteThese “assassination attempts” were perpetrated by White male Republican gun enthusiasts.
DeleteYet the Republicans want to blame Dems.
Talk about extreme.
I agree with David. The heart and soul of the Republican voting base (i.e. snowflakes) throwing a childish temper tantrum, just because black people's votes were counted in the 2020 Presidential election, is hardly a coup.
DeleteThese clowns, who fear drag queens FFS, cosplaying as revolutionaries who are going to overthrow the United States Federal Government (LO-fucking L) are delusional. My 9-year old niece's soccer team would kick their asses, THEN eat orange slices.
Hector, can you game this out for me? I'm trying to understand this claim in practical terms.
Delete"The goal, as stated by Trump, wasn't to have him installed in the White House by the J6 mob. It was to pressure Pence into 'sending the election results back to the States' so that Trump and the GOP congressment could keep twisting arms to overturn the certifications."
1. You feel that Trump wanted to "end democracy".
2. So his first step in accomplishing this goal was to organize a rally and instigate a mob of the attendees to enter the Capitol Building to pressure Pence to send the election back to the states. (battleground states with GOP-controlled legislatures.)
3. This would imply that Pence had the authority to halt the certification process, something constitutional scholars widely reject, as his role is primarily ceremonial.
4. But if the mob did pressure Pence to somehow delay the certification and send the results back, the plan depended on the their presence to apply pressure, so logically, the mob would need to remain there applying pressure as long as it took to get the Republican states to decertify the votes.
5. But the those certifications are generally final. There’s no clear mechanism for state legislatures to decertify them retroactively. So, the legal mechanism would have to be created by each individual State Legislature to decertify the votes while the mob was still in the Capitol pressuring Pence.
6. So under the plan to end Democracy, the mob deputized by Trump would be in the Capitol building pressuring Pence for days or weeks. (The inauguration was 14 days away.)
7. Once the mob disperses, their immediate influence diminishes and the legal process would resume its normal course so Trump's plan would include not only arm turning but a multi-faceted effort to continue challenging the election results while hundreds of rioters habitated the Capitol Building.
8. Theoretically, state legislatures could take their time or delay the process to wait out the rioters, especially if they felt pressured by them
9. Trump's plan includes federal and local authorities being unable to taking action to restore order for days or weeks while hundreds of rioters continued to live and occupy the Capitol Building with Pence in it's underground bunker.
The plan doesn't make sense in any way. It depends on distorting constitutional norms beyond their typical interpretations and an unsustainable, prolonged occupation that would certainly delegitimize Trump's political efforts. It actually probably wasn't Trump's plan.
@11:47 Actually
DeleteThe Hawaii man suspected in former President Donald Trump’s assassination attempt on Sunday is a long-time Democrat, donating exclusively to the party’s candidates 19 times since 2019, records show.
Between September 2019 and March 2020, Ryan Routh contributed more than $140 on the Democratic fundraising platform ActBlue, Federal Election Commission (FEC) filings show.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/alleged-would-be-trump-assassin-ryan-routh-donated-exclusively-to-democrats-since-2019/ar-AA1qD0OO
12:28: It was an attempted coup which involved fraudulently generating alternate slates of electors in 7 states.
DeleteHow about we let the fucking coward, Donald J Chickenshit, have his day in court, let's let a jury hear the evidence and decide. Will Trump testify under oath at his trial? Bwahahaha!!!! Just kidding, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.
David in Cal,
DeleteIt turns out that a male wanted to use a gun to kill a Presidential candidate.
BTW, why do you paint with such a narrow brush?
12:28,
Delete"It depends on distorting constitutional norms beyond their typical interpretations and an unsustainable, prolonged occupation that would certainly delegitimize Trump's political efforts. It actually probably wasn't Trump's plan."
I didn't say it was a plan that was legal, constitutional or made sense. I said it was Trump's plan.
Think back to Trump's Muslim ban at the beginning of his time in office. Did that look like it made any sense? Think of the things Trump says, like that the Haitians were eating cats, things that he grabs out of the air as they fly by.
12:28,
Deletehttps://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-capitol-jan-6-panel-turns-attention-pence-thursdays-hearing-2022-06-16/
The certification vote on Jan. 6 had become a focus for Trump, who saw it as a last-ditch chance to retain the presidency despite his loss at the polls.
Marc Short, who was Pence's chief of staff, said in videotaped testimony that Pence told Trump "many times" that he did not have the authority to stop the vote certification in Congress as the Republican president sought.
Gregory Jacob, an attorney for Pence, said the main proponent of that theory, attorney John Eastman, admitted in front of the president two days before the attack that his plan to have Pence halt the procedure would violate the law.
Eastman had argued that Pence could reject results from certain states if he thought they were illegitimate, giving Republicans in those states an opportunity to declare Trump the victor despite the actual vote count.
Advisers to Pence told the committee that idea had no basis in law.
"It is breathtaking that these arguments even were conceived, let alone entertained by the president of the United States," former U.S. Appeals Court Judge J. Michael Luttig, an informal Pence adviser, said.
Hector, the plan was to throw out the electoral votes from the states where the plotters had forged an alternate slate of electors. That would serve as the pretext for giving Pence the authority to do it since he could claim the states had two slates of electors and it was in dispute which was the valid one. That would result in neither candidate having enough electoral votes to declare victory. The next step was to use the manner described in the Constitution to throw the election to the House of Representatives where each state gets one vote. Since republicans controlled 26 states vs 24 democratic states, it would give the election to Trump. That was the plan.
DeleteI will also add that this plan would have succeeded if Pence went along with it because of the imprecise language in the Electoral Count Act of 1887. Due to this fact Congress had to take the extraordinary step of revising the ECA in 2022.
The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022 is a revision of the Electoral Count Act of 1887, adding to procedures set out in the Constitution of the United States for the counting of electoral votes following a presidential election.
Trump poisons everything he touches.
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/what-trump-asked-of-pence/
DeleteFrom the J6 indictment:
"The Defendant did this first by using knowingly false claims of election fraud to convince the Vice President to accept the Defendant’s fraudulent electors, reject legitimate electoral votes, or send legitimate electoral votes to state legislatures for review rather than count them
The state legislatures had already certified the legal slate of electors. Each state had deadlines by law which set the time for when the certifications must be completed. There is no purpose to send them back to the state legislatures.
Delete"...dishonest rhetoric about Trump being Hitler or ending Democracy or supporting Nazis and white nationalists."
ReplyDeleteNick Fuentes? Laura Loomer? Stephen Miller? Proud Boys?
If this is true, it's a huge story. It's supposedly supported by sworn testimony from a whistle-blower. I will wait for confirmation. I will wait to see the supposed affidavit and alleged secret recordings made public.
ReplyDeleteABC News whistleblower swears under penalty of perjury that the Kamala Harris campaign dictated the terms of the questions during the presidential debate....
The unnamed individual states that he or she is in possession of secret recordings that will prove that ABC News rigged the presidential debate.
https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1835347966586171523?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1835347966586171523%7Ctwgr%5Ee482fc3c13be2e4b8222075025dd4255a85d23c8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Dpj-instapunditt_i%3D1-672619t_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Finstapundit.com2F6726192Ft_e%3DHMM3A2020ABC20Must20Be20Feeling20the20Heat3A20Martha20Radditz20Obliterates20MA20Gov.t_d%3DInstapundit20C2BB20Blog20Archive20C2BB20HMM3A20ABC20Must20Be20Feeling20the20Heat3A20Martha20Radditz20Obliterates20MA20Gov.t_t%3DHMM3A2020ABC20Must20Be20Feeling20the20Heat3A20Martha20Radditz20Obliterates20MA20Gov.t_cs_o%3Dpopularversion%3D4ef1b4e67a51bc2b38fed77fda108743
There were a lot of 'stolen election' affadavits in 2020 . Rudy Giuliani had a stack of 'em.
Delete“ If this is true” IF…that is the operative word. It’s already been debunked.
Delete@9:43 do you have a link to the debunking? Thanks.
DeleteOMG! A MAGA posted it on Twitter/X. Must be true.
DeleteI am still getting over the shock that Taylor Swift didn't endorse Trump. Knew it was true, finally, after he posted that he hates her.
Anyone who follows this blog is aware of DIC's track record when he posts a link. I wish there was a gambling website that would let us make money on the odds.
I fully expect Trump to accept the challenge to another debate at a neutral site, Fox, now that he knows that his face plant was rigged.
An unnamed whistleblower with secret recordings?
DeleteRiiiiiight.
I agree with you, Quaker. As I said, I do not trust the story without more supporting information.
DeleteThe story has been debunked, DIC fell for it again.
Delete@11:49 do you have a link to the debunking? Thanks.
DeleteThis smells a lot like the lie Trump/Vance lies they told, and refuse to recant, about the Haitians.
DeletePhotos of the alleged affidavit were released, but with the names blacked out. It could as forgery, if it’s valid, I would be impressed with sworn testimony.
DeleteI haven't seen David this worked-up, since that time there was a rumor going around that a Republican voter who isn't a bigot had been identified.
DeleteHopefully, for David, the rumor he is now hearing will be true, this time.
if it’s valid, I would be impressed with sworn testimony....
DeleteWhen will we be hearing Donald J Chickenshit's sworn testimony in his upcoming felony trials, Dickhead?
BTW, Dickhead in Cal, this is America. Nobody needs to disprove charges. The burden is on you to prove the allegation, ok, you treasonous bastard?
Delete"if it’s valid, I would be impressed with sworn testimony."
DeleteThere are people in America who will swear to whatever makes them feel good. We learned that in 2020.
What’s even stupider than blaming the assassination efforts on Democratic rhetoric? Blaming the attacks on Haitians on Ttump rhetoric, when there haven’t been any attacks.
ReplyDeleteThere have been terroristic threats.
DeleteDavid,
DeleteAre you suggesting Trump and Vance's outright lies about Haitian immigrants, advanced to amp-up Republican voters due to their bigotry (which is what Republican voters crave ), haven't led to any problems in Springfield?
I am suggesting that dropping 20,000 Haitian immigrants in a town of 60,000 is causing problems far larger than whatever problems may be caused by criticizing the Haitians. The problem of inadequate health, education, etc. services available to handle all the residents plus all the immigrants are clear and measurable Whatever effect Trump's criticism may have is not measurable.
DeleteWhat exactly do you mean, “Dropping 20,000….”? How do you think this works? Try educating yourself. Look things up on the internet that you don’t understand rather than spew your ignorance on to this site. Do you think that someone in the Federal Government rounds these people up and transports them to Springfield? Is that how you think it works? Local officials, incidentally place the numb er at 12-15,000.
Delete3:26,
DeleteIn David's defense, he s a mouth-breathing moron (i.e. Republican voter).
"Whatever effect Trump's criticism may have is not measurable."
DeleteNot 'criticisms'. Not 'fuss'. Not 'exaggerations'.
They were lies.
What exactly do you mean, “Dropping 20,000….”?
DeletePoof - and just like that Dickhead in Cal disappears.