WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2025
Only within a charade: The final score was 217-215—and it wasn't even an NBA all-star game!
In the midst of this conflagration, "the most authoritative and trusted source of entertainment business news" decided it was time to profile the Fox News Channel's Greg Gutfeld, the 60-year-old host of the Fox News Channel's weeknight Gutfeld! program.
Briefly, we'll revisit our dead horese. Variety's lengthy cover story started exactly like this:
How Greg Gutfeld Became the Bill Maher of Fox News—And Toppled Fallon and Colbert in the Ratings
On a Tuesday in February, Hollywood is in the throes of a “Bonfire of the Vanities” moment. Karla Sofía Gascón’s old social media posts, with shocking takes on George Floyd (“a drug addict swindler”) and Islam (“an infection for humanity that urgently needs to be cured”), are roiling awards season and have turned the actress into a pariah. But the “Emilia Pérez” star, the first openly trans person nominated for an acting Oscar, is also a tricky subject to satirize.
Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert have ignored the conflagration that has engulfed this year’s standard-bearing #Resistance film. The task is left to Greg Gutfeld, whose eponymous Fox News show has made him the most-watched man in late night.
Throughout the profile, Tatania Siegel fashions Gutfeld as the hoist of a "late night" comedy show. At one point, she even calls him "the king of late night.")
There are two parts to that designation. In our view, each part is inaccurate—part of a sprawling charade.
Is Greg Gutfeld really the host of a late night comedy show? In fact, his program doesn't appear in the "late night" hours anywhere in the country.
Way out there in Tinseltown, the program airs at 7 p.m. That isn't even part of primetime, as that realm has traditionally been defined, for example by the leading authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_time
True believers will probably say that one out of two ain't half bad. Gutfeld! may not be a late night show, they'll say, but surely it must be a "comedy" show.
So a reader might assume after reading Variety's profile.
We're sorry, Virginia, but no! Without any question, the program incorporates comedy elements into its nightly proceeding. But like almost all shows on the Fox News Channel, Gutfeld! is primarily a propaganda show—a program designed to spread the preapproved messaging of its corporate owner.
To be even more precise, Gutfeld! appears on a "cable news" channel. But it would also be a major stretch to think of it as a "news" program.
Like almost all shows on the Fox News Channel, Gutfeld! is primarily a propaganda program. It's a primetime program devoted to advancing the pre-approved messaging of its corporate owner.
Sometimes that pre-approved messaging may be built on a plausible base. Sometimes, the premise behind the preapproved messaging may even, on balance, be "right."
On balance, though, this is a hard-core propaganda show which uses comedy elements to drive its messaging—messaging which is frequently remarkably ugly and stunningly atavistic.
Whatare the comedy elements to which we refer? Let's take a look at the structure!
Aas far as we know, the 60-year-old host of the show never earned his living as a comedian. That said, he typically starts each program with two or three minutes of jokes.
It's rarely hard to spot the onset of the night assault—of the corporate propaganda. Last night, to cite one recent example, this was the host's second joke:
GUTFELD (2/25/25): Rachel Maddow slammed her own network over its decision to replace a number of on-air talent. True, it does look bad that MSNBC fired a black woman and yet kept on two white women.
[PHOTO OF MADDOW AND CHRIS HAYES]
AUDIENCE: LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE
We were still in the program's first minute. After an initial joke comparing Joy Reid to a cannibalistic (black) murderer, Gutfeld drew a big laugh from his studio audience by describing Hayes as a woman.
We were still in the program's first minute. The lid had already been removed from the can.
The tone of the sequence continued. In a tagline to his third joke, the host referred to Governor Tony Evers (D-Wisc.) as Wisconsin's "lesbian governor." The fourth joke was based on the premise that Governor Pritzker (D-Ill.) is just too freaking fat.
At 10:02—7:02 out on the coast—the merriment ended with this:
GUTFELD: Finally, in England, a horse was rescued after falling halfway through a wooden bridge. Welcome to my world, said one woman.
[PHOTO OF JOY BEHAR]
AUDIENCE: LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE
Behar is 83 years old. On a nightly basis, Gutfeld compares her to elephants, horses, walruses, cows, jokingly saying that she's too fat, but also that she's sexually unattractive.
It was now 10:03—7:03 on the coast. Whatever you might think of a string of jokes of this remarkable type, the string of jokes was now over.
With respect to that nightly string of jokes, trust us—it can get worse. At this point, a problem appears:
In her profile of Gutfeld, Siegel never comes to terms with the content of this program's comedy elements. In fairness, she does come close at one point, when she reports this one lone criticism of Gutfeld:
“I think he uses this label of ‘comedian’ as armor to be able to get away with things that Bret Baier or Sean Hannity wouldn’t say,” says Andrew Lawrence, deputy research director of advocacy organization Media Matters for America. “I know humor is subjective. I know people do find him funny, but I don’t really see where the humor is in there. He just really strikes me as mean.”
That’s precisely the point.
The meanness is precisely the point, Siegel says, in her own voice. That said, she doesn't offer any examples of what she's talking about. Readers are given no examples of the gentleman's meanness—or of the obsession with insults based on sex and gender which anchors his comedy pallet.
These insults, based on sex and gender, routinely seem to carry a certain familiar odor. As noted, Behar and the other women of The View are routinely compared to very large animals.
Other jokes are routinely built on the theme that Nancy Pelosi—she's 84 years old—has had too many facelifts or has perhaps used too much Botox. In the last month or so, a photo of Governor Hochul's face has often been thrown up on the screen, where it's subjected to ridicule.
This pallet forms the basis for this 60-year-old person's nightly array of jokes. In a clownishly comical bit of evasion, Siegel never mentions this, but she does offer this at one point:
When Gutfeld surveys the broader comedy field, he’s unimpressed. He struggles to name a host he finds funny outside of [Bill] Maher and Joe Rogan.
[...]
The election proved that some of those “other guys” no longer are influential. Democratic nominee Kamala Harris opted to sit down with Howard Stern on SiriusXM, thinking his audience of white men could help tip the election in her favor. But for better or for worse, Stern was more relevant when he was a shameless misogynist who fixated on porn stars.
Sad! Correctly or otherwise, for better or worse, Siegel is willing to say that Howard Stern was once "a shameless misogynist." At the same time, she never reports a blindingly obvious fact:
She never says that Gutfeld's comedy pallet is littered with material which seems to come from a much earlier cultural era—with material which would strike almost anyone as being overtly misogyny=adjacent as judged by present-day standards and norms.
Stern was a shameless misogynist; Gutfeld is said to be "mean," in a way which goes described. This is the way a profile goes when it's really a journalistic charade—an imitation of life.
Back to last night's program! It was now 10:03 p.m. —7:03 out on the coast—but the opening jokes were done. That said, the program's comedy elements were still in the saddle. On a nightly basis, the program works like this:
The program's 60-year-old host starts with some jokes in which he assails women in their mid-80s for being too fat, for failing to meet his standards of sexual attractiveness, and for using too much Botox.
After several minutes of this, he offers the evening's "monologue"—a lengthy statement of his view on some matter of public policy.
Insulting, "humorous" side remarks are likely to continue during this presentation. But he is now engaged in a type of presentation which is much more like an opinion column and much less like a "comedy" set.
After presenting his view, he tuirns to a four-member panel of guests, asking them to offer their views on the topic in question. As the show continues through the hour, this same panel will be asked to state their views on three or four other topics.
Is this program a comedy show? On a regular basis, this four-member panel will include several lesser-known comedians. Last Friday night, all four members of the panel were lesser-known touring comedians.
That said, these people won't be asked to offer stand-up performances. Instead, they'll be asked to offer their views on the topics at hand. One instant problem obtains:
However one may regard these panelists as comedians, there is rarely any sign that they bring anything resembling expertise or specialized knowledge, to the discussion at hand.
This program doesn't offer commentary from expert guests. As a general matters, it offers commentary from a panel of fairly obvious flyweights—each of whom is guaranteed to agree with every single word the program's host has just said.
All in all, this stage-managed format produces one of the stupidest "cable news" programs ever put on the air.
For better or worse, mainstream journalism lacks an established language for describing a program like this as simply being stupid. In fairness, that lack of a journalistic tradition isn't Siegel's doing or fault.
That said, her refusal to describe what actually happens on this show frequently takes us past the comically awful to the realm we would describe as an imitation of life. This, for example, is the way Siegel describes the Gutfeld comedy pallet:
Gutfeld differs significantly from the field in tone. After Fallon expressed regret over having Donald Trump on as a guest in 2016 and tousling his hair, he now mostly avoids the polarizing president in his monologues, while Colbert and Meyers have gone all-in on #Resistance humor. Most stick to the Carson format of a celebrity guest promoting a new project. “Gutfeld!” is a closer match to Bill Maher’s old ABC show “Politically Incorrect,” with co-hosts Kat Timpf and Tyrus helping to anchor conversations that frequently rib the obese, the easily triggered and the hosts of “The View.” (Writer Gene Nelson leans into the we’ll-go-there sensibility, telling the crowd ahead of the taping I attend: “I can make fun of fat people because my best friend is”—his voice drops to a conspiratorial whisper—“gay. And Jewish.”) His elaborate, stagy pauses turn the statement into a joke and briefly conceal that what he says makes no sense.
Truly, that's a journalistic charade—an imitation of human life.
According to Siegel, Howard Stern used to be shamelessly misogynistic. Gutfeld merely engages in humor which "frequently ribs the obese." That's all he's doing when he compares the women of The View to a succession of barnyard creatures!
He and his co-hosts and guests also "rib the easily triggered," Siegel murkily says, making no attempt to explain that fuzzy statement. Along the way, she spends more time quoting incoherent remarks by one of the program's writers than she devotes to describing the actual content of what Gutfeld says on the air.
Clownishly, Siegel also quotes Gutfeld saying this, as we noted in yesterday's report:
Gutfeld is an unlikely king of late night. With a panel format instead of the one-on-one setup of his peers, “Gutfeld!” features a hodgepodge of regulars who were once ubiquitous until they tilted rightward, such as comedian Rob Schneider and Vincent Gallo. His rivals, he says, are losing audience share because they adhere to “a very narrow, agreed-upon groupthink” and, therefore, can “never be funny.” ... In fact, “Gutfeld!” is beating “The Late Show With Stephen Colbert,” “Jimmy Kimmel Live!,” “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon,” “Late Night With Seth Meyers,” “Real Time With Bill Maher” and “The Daily Show” by every measure and is uniquely poised to ride the Trump 2.0 wave.
As we noted yesterday, Schneider and Gallo simply aren't regular guests on the Gutfeld! program. Other people actually are.
Also, the idea that his guests were once "ubiquitous" (gifted with mainstream popularity?) until they shifted rightward is a ridiculous fantasy. Most of his comedian guests are drawn from the touring D-list—are people who have massively gained in exposure, income and popularity from appearing as regulars on Gutfeld's program.
That said, nothing could possibly be more absurd than Gutfeld's complaint that network hosts like Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon adhere to “a very narrow, agreed-upon groupthink” and therefore can “never be funny.”
However one might assess the work of those network hosts, no one on the face of the earth adheres to “a very narrow, agreed-upon groupthink” to a greater extent than the host of the Gutfeld! program. Gutfeld! is one of the dumbest "news" shows ever aired, but it's also one of the most predictable and most aggressively scripted.
Starting with co-hosts Tyrus and Timpf, the program's scripting is largely accomplished through its selection of stooges as guests. You will simply never see a panelist question or challenge the host's fundamental point of view or anything the host has said.
The guests are paid to sing along, and sing along they do. Aside from the program's unending coarse tone, this produces one of the stupidest TV "news" programs in the history of the medium.
This is one of the dumbest "news" programs ever aired. It's actually a propaganda program—and yes, it's on the air in prime time. Siegel wasn't even willing to make that simple point clear.
In closing, let's be fair! Some of the viewpoints Gutfeld advances are built on a reasonable base. That said, his program comes from the emotional realm of the ancient "night assault," from the realms of plunder and arson.
At the world's most authoritative site, Siegel was willing to see and report none of this. Instead, she offers a journalistic charade, but she's hardly alone in her refusal to walk and talk like an actual human with respect to this very strange, aging host.
Tomorrow: Let's take a look at the panelists
Jeff Bezos has decided to eliminate communist opinion at the Washington Post.
ReplyDeleteI’m writing to let you know about a change coming to our opinion pages.
We are going to be writing every day in support and defense of two pillars: personal liberties and free markets. We’ll cover other topics too of course, but viewpoints opposing those pillars will be left to be published by others.
There was a time when a newspaper, especially one that was a local monopoly, might have seen it as a service to bring to the reader’s doorstep every morning a broad-based opinion section that sought to cover all views. Today, the internet does that job.
I am of America and for America, and proud to be so. Our country did not get here by being typical. And a big part of America’s success has been freedom in the economic realm and everywhere else. Freedom is ethical — it minimizes coercion — and practical — it drives creativity, invention, and prosperity.
Please use quote marks when quoting. It isn't clear what Bezos or the Wash Post said vs what you said. Thanks.
DeleteJeff Bezos has decided to eliminate communist opinion at the Washington Post:
Delete"I’m writing to let you know about a change coming to our opinion pages.
We are going to be writing every day in support and defense of two pillars: personal liberties and free markets. We’ll cover other topics too of course, but viewpoints opposing those pillars will be left to be published by others.
There was a time when a newspaper, especially one that was a local monopoly, might have seen it as a service to bring to the reader’s doorstep every morning a broad-based opinion section that sought to cover all views. Today, the internet does that job.
I am of America and for America, and proud to be so. Our country did not get here by being typical. And a big part of America’s success has been freedom in the economic realm and everywhere else. Freedom is ethical — it minimizes coercion — and practical — it drives creativity, invention, and prosperity."
Thanks!
Deletefreedom in the economic realm and everywhere else.
DeleteI can't wait to read his first column on the value of workers' unions. It will be about a month from never.
Communism is primarily concerned with increasing democracy in the workplace.
DeleteCrack a book sometimes, folks.
"Personal liberties" and "free markets" refer to the neoliberalism and pro corporate stance, corporate media like the Post have always supported.
Some on the right cried and whined about Clinton/Obama's neoliberalism, but Trump's neoliberalism is just fine because it includes the "freedom" to be unapologetically racist and sexist.
Typical of Republicans, lacking integrity is a feature, not a bug.
@1:12 has a brainwashed, childish, ahistorical view of communism. Our work is not yet finished.
Delete1:12 is correct. 2:58 hasn't a clue about communism.
DeleteJust when I think things can't get any crazier, Trump does something like this:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/donny-posts-his-nightmare-hallucination
It's less crazy - more corrupt and criminal.
DeleteTrump is like RFK Senior.
DeleteRobert F. Kennedy quoted George Bernard Shaw as saying, “Some men see things as they are and ask 'Why? ' I dream things that never were and ask, 'Why not? '”.
And Trump actually accomplishes some of these miracles! Peace in Gaza and in Ukraine on Day 1 seemed impossible. Yet Trump essentially fulfilled his promise.
Sadly, people suffering from TDS, including my wife, are unmoved. They hate Trump and will always look for reasons to hate him. E.g. Which of those blaming Israel for the slaughter of Gazans now publicly praise Trump for ending the slaughter?
Another RFK quote that applies to Trump:
Delete“Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly".
The wars in Ukraine and Gaza are raging on, and the circumstances are worsening, not improving, due to Trump's chaos-inducing interference that only serves the interest of Trump himself, Putin, and Netanyahu.
DeleteFake David mocking the real David's sad attempts at gaslighting is hilarious!
Can someone please arrange an intervention and get Dickhead's poor wife out of that dysfunctional house.
DeleteWhich of those blaming Israel for the slaughter of Gazans now publicly praise Trump for ending the slaughter?
DeleteYou denied the slaughter was happening but you want to praise tRump for ending it. You sure are an odd little fascist freak.
It is an insult to RFK Sr to say Trump is anything like him.
DeleteTrump is like RFK Senior.
DeleteYes, some people dream of a brighter future. Others dream of ethnic cleansing, displacement, and subjugation. I dig.
"Peace in Gaza and in Ukraine on Day 1 seemed impossible. Yet Trump essentially fulfilled his promise."
DeleteWhat is wrong with you? Neither peace in Gaza nor in Ukraine seemed 'impossible'. All wars eventually end, doofus.
And is there 'peace' in Ukraine? They're nowhere close. Zelensky is stressing the minerals agreement is not a done deal. Get your head out of Trump's butt.
If Gutfeld is a bad comedian (and Somerby ought to know) and he is bad at reporting news too, why is it necessary to decide whether his show is comedy or news? Either way it is bad.
ReplyDeleteObviously Gutfeld and everything appearing on Fox News is propaganda and that is neither news nor comedy. That makes Somerby's essay a waste of everyone's time.
You'd think a Wittgenstein aficionado wouldn't be fixated on something so stupid.
DeleteSomerby sees Gutfeld as bad branding for Repubs, thus his attacks.
DeleteSomerby is promoting Gutfeld with every essay he writes about him.
DeleteCrickets from Somerby about Maddow's on-air statement supporting Joy Reid and talking about the treatment at MSNBC of behind-the-scenes staff. It is as if Musk were in charge of MSNBC staffing too. As Maddow mentioned, they have removed all of their minority hosts from their shows. What does that look like to you? To me it looks like an anti-DEI maneuver from a supposedly left wing network. Who do they think will watch them after they do that?
DeleteI'll bet Maddow would resign if she didn't have a contract.
Anonymouse 11:44pm, right. Anonymices less critical (abusive) when Bob is going after mainstream or blue media. Or Einstein.
Deletehuh? Cecelia's English translator on the fritz again.
DeleteSomerby thinks Gutfeld is building on a solid base. He says so today. That's ridiculous and shows where Somerby is coming from. He has often said before that people on Fox have some good points. That's why Somerby himself is an unreliable source.
ReplyDeleteThat's right. Turn yourself into a pretzel arguing that Somerby's attacks on Gutfield and Fox prove that he is right-wing.
DeleteSomerby is right wing, that's been an uncontroversial notation for years here.
Delete1:16 - Two false statements in 12 words. Not bad!
DeleteAnd it's "notion," not "notation."
DeleteSomerby is right wing. So is Gutfeld. Nothing to be proved about either one. They condemn themselves with their own words.
DeleteAnd, BTW, that "Everybody knows . . ." mode of argument is very Trumpian, for instance, "Everybody knows the 2020 election was stolen!"
Delete1:48 - Fair enough. What words do you see in today's column that condemns Gutfield as hardcore propaganda do you see as revealing Somerby's secret right-wing views? I'll wait.
Delete"Notation" is correct, as well as the longtime consensus that Somerby is right wing.
DeleteYour excessively literal defense of Somerby, probably even embarrasses Somerby.
Somerby enjoys Gutfeld as a guilty pleasure, stifling his smug snickering as he types his daily magnus opus, but Somerby has enough awareness to understand Gutfeld is bad for Republican branding.
DeleteSomerby tries to get a rise out of Dems, by repeating/amplifying Gutfeld's schtick here, but Dems do not suffer from the delicate sensitivities of Repubs.
Anonymouse 2:13pm, oh, yeah. Bob criticizing Gutfeld! is just a ruse to expose you to partisan insults. Anonymices are too thick-skinned to be dinged by Greg Gutfeld. On the other hand, Bob Somerby can set you off by merely suggesting that you’re only too human… or by relaying Gutfeld’s jokes in an essay decrying Gutfeld’s jokes. Oh, you're not sensitive.
DeleteCecelia, what is the point of criticizing Gutfeld here? No one here likes him and we all know why we dislike him. This is not worth anyone's time. No one here bothers defending Behar, who can be as fat as she wants -- it's a free country still. No one here cares what Gutfeld says, since it is clearly garbage. So no one is being "set off" by what Somerby says. We don't like the way he ignores important issues to promote a Fox News show like this.
DeleteWhen you attack a show by saying that it is #1 in ratings, that is more likely to cause people to want to see what makes it so popular, not leave it alone because Somerby makes some criticism of the type that attracts bros (like the things that used to be said about Andrew Dice Clay and on the Man Show. Bros hear that and say "that sounds like my kind of show" and can't wait until 7 pm rolls around. Then Cecelia whines "but he said mean things about Behar" when that is what all the naughty boy stand ups do these days, while calling women "scolding bitches" (termagants is the word Somerby uses). No one is being fooled by Somerby's pretense at disliking Gutfeld. No one has ever worked so hard to promote a standup as Somerby has for Gutfeld. It makes me wonder if they're related.
DeleteI think they both spent time in CA, back when it was more of a Republican state.
DeleteInterestingly, comparative analysis academics can trace aspects of Homer/Greek mythological epics back to indigenous people in the CA area. Maybe that explains Somerby's weird obsession with Illiad.
Somerby's obsession with the Iliad arises from his association with white supremacists today, who consider the Iliad to represent a warrior culture with better values that bro culture wants to nostalgically return to, when women were property and men were manly.
Delete"If you peruse the corners of the internet occupied by the “alt-right,” sometimes called the “manosphere,” you’re likely to encounter a lot of references to ancient Greece and Rome.
There’s a fascination with Spartan culture and stoic philosophers and famous thinkers like Aristotle and Plato. The men who consume this stuff — and yes, it’s almost exclusively men — tend to believe two things: that ancient Greek and Roman culture are the basis of Western civilization and that these cultures are the exclusive achievements of white men.
But the idea isn’t merely to celebrate these ancient cultures. The goal is to turn a phrase like “Western civilization” into code for “white culture” and to cement a narrative about history that glorifies patriarchy and undercuts cultural progressivism.
This, of course, isn’t all that new. As I wrote back in 2018, the alt-right appropriates the philosopher Nietzsche in similar ways and for similar reasons. But the obsession with Greece and Rome seems to be more widespread, and perhaps even mainstream.
Donna Zuckerberg, editor-in-chief of Eidolon, an online Classics magazine, examines this trend in her book, Not All Dead White Men: Classics and Misogyny in the Digital Age. I spoke to her recently about the appeal of ancient history to the alt-right, how it’s used to reinforce misogyny and racism, and why the field of Classics has a major problem on its hands."
https://www.vox.com/2019/11/6/20919221/alt-right-history-greece-rome-donna-zuckerberg
Somerby accidentally quoted some of the guys caught up in this aspect of the manosphere, so we know he reads this stuff and it seems to tie together his misogyny and rightward shift. There is nothing liberal about any of this, which undercuts Somerby's pretense to be a liberal and a Democratic voter.
Somerby also frequently quotes My Antonia, which is another favorite of the alt right and white supremacists, extolling the virtues of white Scandinavian women. The title character (Antonia) is around Somerby's favorite age in the novel and the protagonist is a young boy who admires her excessively, as Somerby does.
Gutfeld and Somerby both lived in the same approximate area of California, but they are far apart in age -- Somerby is 20+ years older than Gutfeld. I think it is more likely that Somerby met Gutfeld when Somerby was managing a comedy club and Gutfeld was starting out in standup comedy. Or maybe they were introduced by a mutual friend in right wing politics. No way to know and Somerby doesn't say. I don't think Somerby keeps talking about Gutfeld for no reason. Hiding such connections is one reason why I consider Somerby dishonest -- a journalist usually discloses connections, but Somerby is not a journalist but a propagandist, so concealing his motives is part of his trade I guess.
DeleteAndy Borowitz is touting this guy as the next Bob Dylan. That should interest Somerby, except the lyrics are not right wing...so maybe not.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s5fMiLdBsY
Bill Maher is a huge asshole, nothing to aspire to.
ReplyDeleteSo is Somerby.
DeleteSo is Trump.
So is Musk.
etc.
Bob, you must post on “MSNBC and “The Uterus Collector”’ . Anonymices have been polishing their insult-laden harangues/posts against you since yesterday when you said that you might blog on it. How could you? Can you see why they hate you?
ReplyDeleteHe didn't say "might."
DeleteThey hate Somerby, like the Republican voters hate anything the government does that helps a black person.
ReplyDeleteOh, far worse than that. They hate Bob like anonymices hate minority members who don’t want or think they need your dumb honky help.
DeleteCecelia may pretend to be a woman but he is reliably racist.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:58pm, think of me as being one of those misogynistic and Uncle Tom black males.
DeleteCecelia: Honky is a deprecated term. It's so...eighties, or seventies -- got it, cracker?
DeleteIIya, “cracker”. Right on…
DeleteLeaning into your racism does not enhance it or excuse it in anyway.
DeleteAnonymouse 1:27pm, neither does your trivialization of racism as your all-purpose put- down of everyone from Bob to less than politically obedient black people. Blow it out of your nose with a rubber hose.
DeleteCecelia, YOU are one of the racists. You seem confused about that.
DeleteAnonymouse 1:46pm, no, I’m not confused that you use that appellation like it’s saltpeter for dissent.
DeleteNo one thinks Cecelia is not racist, even Cecelia's own protestations ring hollow.
DeleteIn all likelihood, it is how he was raised, the tragedy of bad parenting.
Anonymouse 2:16pm, now you’re conveying the sort of generosity that you detest in Bob. Only with him it’s genuine.
DeleteSomerby is not generous. Nor is he genuine about anything.
DeleteSomeone needs to buy Cecelia a dictionary. Racist does not refer to dissent. It refers to bigotry and prejudice against those who are different, something Cecelia displays every day of her life, whether she is an Eastern European troll or a man who likes to impersonate women.
"I’m not confused that you use that appellation like it’s saltpeter for dissent."
DeleteI'll bet Cecelia doesn't know that saltpeter has traditionally been used to chemically castrate pedophiles and other sex criminals. Her use of the term implies that only males engage in dissent, which is telling given "her" assertions that she is female. Not an image that jumps to female minds.
But the oddest thing about her remark is that the libs are the dissenters here. She is part of Somerby's establishment -- she may even be him, for all we know. But she is not one of us, and WE are the ones who oppose and criticize Somerby from day to day, especially given his promotion of right wing talking points, while David and Cecelia advance the same right wing memes as Somerby. So who is that saltpeter being applied to? If it comes from the liberals in the form of the term "racist," then it is not being applied to any dissenters. It is being applied to those who don't use their genitals for good instead of evil. People like herself, except then the metaphor gets weird again.
Anonymouse 2:47pm, no “racism” has to do with race. Bigotry is a broader word. These appellations are words that anonymices use like they’re soup cans they fling at the heads of cops. No more, no less.
DeleteCecelia thinks Blacks are inferior to Whites.
DeleteStop the presses!
So does David, so does Somerby, so does Trump/Musk/most Republicans (even Lincoln). Birds of a feather flock together.
Republicans are hell bent on destroying our country in order to benefit a handful of billionaires, yet Somerby (and his trolls/fanboys) keep whistling their same dumb right wing tune, without a sincere, or coherent, or genuine care in the world.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:150pm, no, dissent and being a dissenter are apt words for any party disputing what others are defending as a truism. You can have several factions of people in any argument. Yes, I knew the history of saltpeter which is why I used the term. Anonymices don’t merely dissent during discussion, they attempt to stifle it, to suppress it by personal attacks on Bob and anyone countering them. You’d shut this place down tomorrow if you could.
DeleteBtw- no anonymouse of either gender would ever need saltpeter.
The personal attacks on Somerby are not an attempt to suppress what he says. They are complaints about his behavior, especially his dishonesty. I would like to see Somerby adopt a new hobby because what he does here is actively harmful to others, but I wouldn't close him down, even if I could.
DeleteI don't think you knew the word at all, because it makes no sense as a deliberate word choice. I find it more offensive than what Gutfeld says about Behar. Early experiments with medical interventions on criminals are part of the bad old days of inhumane treatment, along with forced lobotomies and sterilization.
Anonymouse 3:52pm, I didn’t say that disagreement with Somerby is an attempt to shut him up. Distorting what he has said and concocting nefarious reasons behind what he said is not dissent. That’s not discussion. That an attempt to smear him. There are liberals on this blog who manage to disagree with Somerby or to complain about his content, without impugning him. Most anonymices are here to do nothing other than impugning him.
DeleteYour idea that anyone who understands Somerby differently than you do is "distorting" what he said, is ridiculous. When Somerby does not explain himself, it is fair to suggest explanations. He can contradict whoever he wants -- he's the one with a blog. Somerby impugns others here, including Harris, which may have contributed to her losing to Trump. Every anonymous here has a genuine complaint against Somerby -- no one impugns without a reason. Just because you disagree with their complaints doesn't mean they have none.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:45pm, what commenter here has Somerby impugned as being on the payroll of Putin? Has Bob called anyone a pedophile? What reason is there, other than the fact that he isn’t a complete fire and brimstone party hack, that justifies the kind of things you say about him?
DeletePeople here have suggested either Putin or the RNC. Perhaps they are the same to you, but I don't know. Somerby has defended a pedophile, does that count? I think it does. He has also defended a rapist, suggesting he should be pitied instead of being held accountable for his crimes.
DeleteWhat justifies saying this stuff about Somerby? How about because it is true? Isn't that why actual journalists say things? And because when someone goes out of his way to defend Roy Moore against 12-14 year old girls accusing him, someone should be on the girls' side too.
Ukraine is still going strong, same with inflation, the genocide of Palestinians, and Republican's desire to cut programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security.
ReplyDeleteWho knew?
"Trump Says Those Who Didn’t Respond May Be Fired
ReplyDeleteFebruary 26, 2025 at 1:10 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 35 Comments
President Trump said that federal workers who didn’t respond to Elon Musk’s request to outline what they did at work “are on the bubble,” Axios reports.
Said Trump: “I wouldn’t say that we’re thrilled about it, they haven’t responded. Those people are on the bubble as they say, maybe they’re gonna be gone.” [Political Wire]
This seems like an excuse to fire more people. Many of those who did not respond were told not to by their supervisors. It is Trump's bad management if his own people were not on the same page when it came to Musk's email. Workers shouldn't have to suffer because of lack of communication at the top. But if the goal is to have some legal excuse to get rid of a bunch of people (for no good reason), then this may be a ruse to eliminate more staff indiscriminately, with cover if there are lawsuits. Not good cover.
Whatever happened, this is despicable and no way to treat any employee. Many of those being fired are Trump voters, but that doesn't seem to help them.
Trump is creating a whole lot of good reasons for people to hate him, on a personal level. If he were ever going to run for anything again, this would undermine his campaign. If I were a MAGA, I would hold it against the Republicans who not only put him in office but have been doing his bidding without opposition, up to this point. Other Republicans could put the brakes on this mistreatment of working people. It is not a crime to work for the government, and no, most govt employees are hard working and not scamming taxpayers. Work is a source of pride for most of us and we do not slack because it is dishonest but also contributes nothing to anyone's sense of self-worth.
They made it perfectly clear that if their position is not essential or they are not doing the job well, they will be fired. They don't need additional "excuses" to fire these people who are stealing from taxpayers.
DeleteNo one who is essential and doing their job well would be concerned in the least and if anything will see it as improving his chances for promotion.
2:55 apparently you are unaware that Trump/Musk have to keep rehiring federal workers they "fired", as well as having to keep walking back all their other bluster and nonsense. Either that or you are a troll operating in bad faith. Hmmmm, I wonder...
DeleteAt this point they can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson.
They don't seem to want to bother examining whether an employee is doing the job well or not. That's why they are manufacturing stunts like this. And notice that they didn't bother building any case against the racial minorities and women they have fired.
Delete"No one who is essential..." It can be argued that no one is essential, so that is perhaps a loophole, but if a guy is told by his boss not to respond to an email but told by Trump he has to respond, what is a guy to do? He will be fired either way -- Catch 22. And that is not a decent way to treat workers.
Anonymouse 3;09pm, an employee would respond to an order coming from the POTUS or his (potentially HER) appointee. That shouldn’t be a hard concept no matter who’s president.
DeleteIs that why they fired all the JAGS, cec?
DeleteAnonymouse 3:57pm, if you’re suggesting that the president asked JAGs to respond to the same directive and they failed to do that- yeah.
DeleteThey were not sent those emails. Can you think of a really good reason, Cecelia, why a president would want to fire the JAG’s? Think real hard.
DeleteSo what if they fire then rehire? It's better than retaining in the case of those not rehired.
DeleteFiring then rehiring, because you fucked up, is disruptive, stupid, inefficient, and incompetent. It also destroys morale and instills mistrust in your “boss”.
DeleteHey, I’ve got an idea. All those people fired surely had bosses who did evaluations on them. Why not consult with them, as people familiar with their work history, as opposed to some entitled jerk waltzing in and deciding he knows better.
DeleteThat was sort of the point made by Patel, Gabbard and several other heads of agencies. It was quickly overridden by Trump himself, who is ordering all of the federal workers to write such memos. But all of Trump's appointees were chosen for their willingness to be set aside by Trump, as the whim takes him.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:14pm, as you’ve implied, no one needs to think very hard about this. Pres. Trump doesnt trust them anymore than you trust SCOTUS. However he CAN fire them.
DeleteSo Trump appointed a bunch of incompetents who he rules by fear, because their virtue is that they can be fired? That would be true even of more competent people. Think harder, there must be more to this than you've figured out so far.
DeleteAnonymouse 6:00pm, no, I didn’t say that their virtue is that Trump CAN fire them. Their virtue is that he doesn’t think they’re corrupt. Similarly, many leftists think the conservative SCOTUS justices are corrupt and therefore the court should be packed.
DeleteFDR used the threat of court packing, not actual packing, to get the court to leave the New Deal alone.
DeleteNothing President Biden proposed for supreme court reform can in any way be characterized as "court packing", crazy lady. More than half the country does consider the current supreme court to be corrupt. Trump fired the JAGs because he plans to break the law. Very simple.
Delete"Some of the viewpoints Gutfeld advances are built on a reasonable base.
ReplyDeleteReally? Like what?
Maybe StinkyinCal and Stinkelia can elucidate.
Somerby is your typical right winger, notorious for his dabbling in racism and sexism, so it is unsurprising he finds aspects of Gutfeld "reasonable".
DeleteAnonymouse 3:09pm, so it’s totally unreasonable for Bob to think that Gutfeld is a threat to hearts and minds, but also suspect when Bob doesn’t dismiss Gutfeld! as being complete babble?
DeleteTo the extent that Somerby thinks Gutfeld should be removed, Somerby is not supporting free speech and first amendment rights. The only person here who has been saying Gutfeld should be suppressed is Somerby. The rest of us may not like Gutfeld, but we know how to change the channel when something is not to our taste.
DeleteI don't know why Somerby is obsessed with Gutfeld. It males no sense when there are better targets, such as Joe Rogan. I think it is very likely that Somerby knows Gutfeld in real life.
Anonymouse 3:44pm, with that logic if the media countered anything it would be tantamount to threatening censorship Bob hasn’t asked the government to get involved, he’s asking why people like Maddow aren’t calling upon Fox News to explain how it is that they allow their personalities to make jokes about FLOTUS and Hunter Biden bumping bellies. It’s a puzzle why they’ve ignored this. I think they’d be questioning this sordid and nasty treatment night and day if Melania was the target.
DeleteBecause people like Maddow have more important things to talk about than Gutfeld’s crude jokes? Just a guess, Cecelia.
DeleteCecelia is making no sense. First, Maddow is not going to care what they say about Melania, especially if it is true. Second, Jill Biden doesn't need defending. The jokes are so obviously malicious and Hunter is a relative, so that is an accusation of incest -- even stupider. This idea that women need defending against ugly press comments is demeaning to women. Maddow of course knows that Behar doesn't care what Gutfeld says, and neither do most other women. Third, Maddow's job is not to defend anyone on the left -- she is a journalist reporting on stories as objectively as she can. Defending people against stupid jokes is not objective. Jokes are made up, not facts.
DeleteDoes Cecelia think of the news as a bunch of people lining up on two different sides and throwing pies at each other? Gutfeld is a partisan comedian spreading propaganda while Maddow is a journalist reporting on researched stories of interest to center and left viewers. Maddow tries to tell the truth. Gutfeld tells jokes. Not the same thing at all. But what planet is Cecelia living on that she doesn't know this?
Anonymouse 4:10pm, if there was a show on MSNBC that treated Mrs Trump in that manner, both Maddow and Fox News would publicly object to it. The reason they don’t with Fox News is because corporate people have told them not give Gutfeld! the publicity. They’ve obeyed. Bob- wouldn’t.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:25pm, Maddow and other female news personalities have had no trouble denouncing MSNBC for showing Joy Reid and her low-rated show the door. Wonder how Rachel has managed to keep her job for doing that? Because the fact that she did it, means it over, she did the “right thing”, the network was chided, so MSNBC moves on…
DeleteWhat is your evidence for this? I haven't seen Maddow ever defend Melania or Jill Biden. If Somerby is giving Fox and Gutfeld publicity against the orders of MSNBC and supposedly the liberal establishment, why doesn't that make him a right wing supporter, as several of us have been claiming he is?
DeleteThere are some journalists talking about the attack on Republican women now being mounted by the right -- Amanda Marcotte most recently:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-child-maga-quickly-turns-105907677.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF9N2WiALbX3zNYuYz7D4K2cvrJulp-gJ_KHbEAVlZKIXthLInNpszhslUcJW489jQwKFyYsanieJXbpIbPXh1RVSNC_VNw0aO_gXOcgDJnP34K6azz4_9YhjhtSGTUNmqloiLp7a_MwJPScAGTmR21wiojSZWQ1Z-Ig4NJ2K1SI
Maddow is more interested in politics in general than in feminism. So on what basis do you think she should be defending Behar against Gutfeld? There is nothing serious about that situation, not like the attack on women's voting rights that Marcotte discusses. And Somerby will never discuss any of this either. He dislikes women and perhaps believes women shouldn't be voting. He has no interest in MTG or Boebert and didn't talk about Nikki Haley or Kristi Noem. If you think Somerby is talking about Gutfeld to defend Behar, you are an idiot. The only female comedian Somerby has defended here is Roseanne Barr, because she was nice to him when she was first starting out. Never mind how crazy she is now.
Cecelia is twisted up in her own arguments and has lost the thread. She isn't saying anything internally consistent or that makes sense in any context. Time to let her drink and hope she goes away soon.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:42pm, no, you’re just not very bright. Allowing Maddow to have a snit fit over the firing of Reid, allows Maddow ( the network’s huge money maker) to look sufficiently feminist and antiracist for her audience. She denounces the firing of Joy. MSNBC says nothing. It’s over. Corporate understand that. Maddow understands that. On the other hand, Corp sees no profit (money wise or publicity wise) in publicizing the sexist “humor” of the highly rated Gutfeld! So the courageous Maddow stays radio silent.
DeleteFigure it out…
Anonymouse 4:41pm, Somerby doesn’t work for MSNBC. He can live up to his own stands and decry the filthy treatment of POTUS. The only standard you must abide is “get Bob”. So you have to act like it abridgment of speech to ask a network why it’s making dirty jokes about the First Lady. Fox News is a news channel, not HBO late night.
DeleteRight, I'm the one who isn't bright. Somerby does the weave more than Trump and is too evasive to hold accountable, so why bother? The good news is that Somerby is older than Trump, so both of them will not be around much longer, with any luck (or justice).
DeleteAnonymouse 5:59pm, I always love it when anonymices reveal how they truly define the term “empathy”.
DeleteHow do you define it Cecelia?
DeleteCecelia: Maddow has been doing excellent reporting, every damn night. Can't you just appreciate that, which is her job, and not try to pretend you have any fucking idea why she broke away to express her opinion about the firing of Reid?
DeleteAt this point, I think it is pretty clear that tRump and his gang are deliberately trying to trigger a deep recession. This is not gonna end pretty.
ReplyDelete“ Some of the viewpoints Gutfeld advances are built on a reasonable base.”
ReplyDeleteThis cuts against the idea that Somerby’s Gutfeld posts are merely an attack on him.
Somerby isn't the only one who misunderstands and misuses psychological terms. Trump has no idea what he is talking about when he discusses mental illness:
ReplyDelete"President Donald Trump’s recent executive order on chronic disease and mental health is dangerous: It groups autism and ADHD — natural, genetic neurotypes — alongside chronic diseases. This is not just inaccurate, it is harmful to millions of neurodivergent Americans fighting for acceptance and equal rights.
Autism and ADHD are not diseases. They are not illnesses. They are not a “health crisis.” They are neurodevelopmental variations, passed down through families — just like eye color.
I am neurodivergent. So is my child, my mother, my sister and my nephew. We are not sick. We do not need curing. What we need is recognition, support, and a society that doesn’t try to erase us.
This harmful framing isn’t just offensive — it’s a strategic attack on disabled people, targeting our children first."
Other forms of neurodivergence include people with high IQs, perfect pitch, musical talent, tetrachromaticity, and so on. Whether a trait is an asset or a deficit depends on the fit with society as much as on the nature of someone's divergence. People with birthmarks used to be considered witches or in league with the devil. Trump is just as ignorant, and so is Somerby based on the kinds of things he has been saying here.
Without neurodivergence, there wouldn't be evolution. Natural divergence allows natural selection to improve plants, animals and people. Without it we wouldn't be here as a species.
DeleteThe targeting of those who are different, whether through racism, ethnic cleansing, sexism and other discrimination, interferes with the struggle of all creatures to survive and thrive in their environments. This is part of what eugenicists get wrong. Trump thinks he has superior genes. That alone should motivate people to let nature take care of guys like him. Instead, racist assholes put him into a position where he can affect outcomes for too many people.
Anonymouse 4:36pm, you should have stopped after linking Bob with Trump because Bob probably isn’t familiar with the term neurodivergent any more than Trump is familiar with it.
DeleteEverything past that preface was lost in the hilarity.
That was the point, idiot.
DeleteIs Gutfeld really a comedy show?
ReplyDeleteIs Somerby really a blogger?
No, Gutfeld! is a British serial and Bob is Corby.
DeleteYou perhaps think you're funny but you are as much a waste of space as Somerby and Gutfeld combined.
DeleteWhy pick on Corby again today? Someone posted a quote from Digby on the other essay. Why not go pick on Digby? Neither has done anything to you, but when does that stop anyone on the right from bullying others? Elon is the biggest joke in town -- go pick on him why doncha? Is it because he is bigger than you? He isn't meaner.
Anonymouse 5:57pm, yiu fake righteous indignation at the drop of a pine needle. You can feign a blown gasket over “Corby” and not make a peep over the epithet of pedophile.
DeleteSomerby said what he said. No one made him defend Roy Moore and no one has called him a pedophile either. After all, his point was that those who lust after slightly older children are called a different name.
DeleteCecelia’s party (gop) routinely calls Democrats pedophiles because of their support for LGBTQ (including transgender). So Cecelia can retire to her phony fainting couch and pretend to be outraged about “pedophile.”
DeleteGutfeld and his panelists learned long ago not to wander outside their bubble. They don't appear anywhere their words or actions might be challenged.
ReplyDeleteLikely, they're afraid they'll be humbled the way Tucker Carlson was when he appeared with Jon Stewart.