Part 1—About an important topic: Out of general curiosity, there's a certain survey we'd like to see.
Actually, there are at least two. Out of general curiosity, we'd also like to see a survey in which respondents get asked how much they think cable news hosts get paid.
Let's set that survey aside for now. Let's turn to a different survey.
For this week, the survey we would like to see concerns a different important topic. It concerns the question of police shootings—more specifically, the questions of police shootings in terms of so-called race.
Sometimes, people get shot and killed by police. For the record, a clear majority of police officers won't shoot anyone today.
Sometimes, though, such events do occur. Such events are of course important.
It can also be argued that such events have perhaps become grist for the occasional mill. This is especially true with respect to the topic C-Span recently explored, "Police Shootings and Race."
Right away, let it be said that "race" can be seen as a murky concept.
The belief that we have several "races" of people in this country comes to us, live and direct, from "the world the slaveholders made." The concept, as these intellectual giants devised it, generally turns on questions of "skin color" and ancestry.
We liberals all know we should generally say that there's no such thing as "race." We also tend to cling to the wisdom of the slaveholders in much the same way that lichens may cling to a favorite rock.
In our current state of awareness, we may tend to make little distinction between two distinct concepts. We know that people get treated as if they belong to a race. We know that people have been so treated all through the annals of American history.
We're less likely to be clear on a second question. Do we ourselves believe that a person belongs to a "race?" And if so, in what does that membership consist?
In the modern liberal world, these questions generally get swept aside. We insist that everyone belongs to a race; that we get to say what that race is; and that this membership defines their "identity," which we bestow on their heads.
We cling to the concept the slaveholders made. No one seems to admire Ole Massa's wisdom quite the way we do!
Having offered these apologies, we return to the survey we'd like to see. That survey would involve police shootings and so-called race.
Essentially, police shootings have been in the news since the death of Trayvon Martin, who of course wasn't shot by police. But in the wake of Martin's death, other shooting deaths occurred:
Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer. So was Tamir Rice. Such incidents have played a large role in the news in recent years, thought one apparent rule obtains:
When it comes to high-profile shootings by police, no others need apply!
What do we mean by that award-winning nostrum? Only this:
When "blacks" are shot and killed by police, a great deal of attention is paid. When "whites" and Hispanics are shot by police, even in plainly ridiculous ways, it may seem that nobody cares.
Attention is paid to the one type of incident, as of course should be the case. The other incidents are ignored. No other "race" need apply!
(Your lizard is saying that 1) our claims are crazily wrong, and/or 2) that we're ignoring the obvious reasons for this selective attention. In this case, as in several others, we'll suggest the possibility that your lizard is wrong.)
Back to the survey we seek! As a possible starting point, we wonder how respondents would react to a question like this:
Possible survey question:No, seriously! For starters, we wonder how many people would be inclined to think that no so-called "whites" were shot and killed by police last year.
According to the Washington Post, police officers shot and killed 223 African-Americans in the year 2017.
As far as you know, did police officers shoot and kill any "whites" during that year? If so, can you give an estimate as to a possible number?
We offer a bit of background:
Presumably, most people have never examined the numbers compiled by the Washington Post or by any other org. They're unlikely to have seen any such data at any of their favorite news orgs, even on cable news.
(Dearest darlings, use your heads! Presentation of data on cable news? Such things simply aren't done!)
Presumably, most people have never stopped to think about the questions we've posted above. Still and all, we'll guess that a certain number of people would be inclined to say that no "white" people were shot and killed by police last year.
Would some people be so inclined? If that is true, the following survey question might be better equipped to elicit that fact:
Possible survey question:If we don't put our thumb on the scale by including a number in our question, we might find that people are more likely to say that there were so such incidents—to show that's what they tend to believe.
In a number of high-profile incidents, police officers have shot and killed African-Americans in recent years, including last year.
As far as you know, did police officers shoot and kill any "whites" last year? If so, can you give an estimate as to a possible number?
While we're at it, let's imagine a third way of asking our question. It night go exactly like this:
Possible survey question:Police shootings which involve unarmed victims have gained special attention. We'd be curious to see how respondents would answer a question about those particular cases.
In a number of high-profile incidents, police officers have shot and killed unarmed African-Americans in recent years, including last year.
As far as you know, did police officers shoot and kill any unarmed "whites" last year? If so, can you give an estimate as to a possible number?
Your lizard is saying that it's misleading to focus on the numbers alone with respect to this fraught topic. That may well be true. We'll consider that question before the week is done.
That said, we'll suggest, once again, that you should consider ignoring your lizard just this once. For today, we're simply wondering what people think about the frequency of these types of occurrence—about the frequency of police shootings in terms of so-called race.
Long ago and far away, many different types of groups were told, in various ways, that they need not apply for the fruits of citizenship. No one was treated more brutally than Americans of African descent.
Is it possible that this historical fact may perhaps sometimes lead to a type of "over-correction?" Has it possibly led to a world in which we liberals think your identity is determined by your "race," and that it only matters if people of certain "identities" get shot and killed by police?
Is it possible that we've come to think that others need not apply?
Is it possible that that's what we have come to think? Your lizard is bouncing off walls inside his cave as we pose this thoughtful question. On just this one occasion, is it possible that your lizard is wrong?
Is it even dimly possible? That when it comes to shooting deaths by police, no others need apply—not even Hispanics and Muslims?
Tomorrow: Did this recent headline possibly come from the world the slaveholders made?
Excellent column by Bob. An additional point would be number police shootings of Asians. Asians are shot at a lower frequency than whites. Is that because police are prejudiced against whites and in favor of Asians? No, it's clearly because Asian less frequently behave in ways that lead to being shot by police. This illustrates the general proposition that the frequency with which a group of people are shot by police is affected by the behavior of this group.ReplyDelete
Also affected by the behavior of the group doing the shooting. For instance, the piss poor training of police officers is a big part of this problem. Also, waving away any accountability for bad police work, because "Blue Lives Matter", or other such bullshit, affects the group behavior as well.Delete
They are a much smaller % of the population in the USA than blacks are.Delete
Do you not know that there are Asian gangs in Los Angeles and other cities with large Asian populations (Garden Grove, Santa Ana, San Diego)? Your persistence in considering Asians the "model minority" blinds you to actual problems among Asians in our society.
"Is it even dimly possible? That when it comes to shooting deaths by police, no others need apply—not even Hispanics and Muslims?"ReplyDelete
You know the answer, Bob, just like everyone else. The only way liberal elites manage to cling to power is by inciting racial hatred.
A major segment of their (your?) electoral base - self-identified 'African Americans' - need to be instilled with victimhood mindset. That's critical. And that's all there's to it. Politics.
It comes from a deep place psychologically. Liberals think of themselves as weak. So they try to identify with other groups that they think think are weak. They project the victimhood on the minority groups. But still, as is obvious, the Republicans are so ridiculous and so exploitative and greedy that the minority groups will side with the Democrats projection of victimhood, weakness and helplessness over the bad faith and the lies of the Republicans .Delete
I don't know what "liberals think of themselves" in general. The true believers think, I suppose, what all true believers think of themselves: that they're virtuous and righteous.Delete
As for "exploitative and greedy", I don't know what could be more exploitative and greedy than globalist efforts to de-industrialize their own country by chasing cheap labor all over the world, and to bring masses of desperate people from abroad to compete for jobs with their working-class citizens. And this process is managed, for the most part, by the liberal elite.
And Republicans are just dragged along kicking and screaming by Democrats into the vicious world of globalism? Pull your head out of your ass you fucking stupid faggot. You're boring. Stick your dim, binary scapegoating up your ass.Delete
' don't know what could be more exploitative and greedy 'Delete
How about a Russian Troll named 'Mao' trying to earn a paycheck from Uncle Vova ?
Trump tariffs protect Ivanka's overseas businesses. But ........Delete
Trump: "Farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they're doing this for the country." pic.twitter.com/fAALBODo0Q
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) April 9, 2018
Somerby keeps buying into the notion that slaveholders invented the concept of race. They may have used it, but it wasn't invented by them.ReplyDelete
Here is a better description of where our ideas about race come from:
Somerby says: "Long ago and far away, many different types of groups were told, in various ways, that they need not apply for the fruits of citizenship. No one was treated more brutally than Americans of African descent."ReplyDelete
I take issue with this statement. There have been any number of examples of people treated more brutally than African Americans. Aboriginal Americans were treated more brutally. Chinese working on the railroads were treated more brutally. Hispanic people occupying certain areas of the Western states were treated more brutally, including lynchings, rapes, and other mistreatment. Hispanic and Indian people enslaved at the missions were treated more brutally. The mentally ill were treated more brutally.
There is no point in saying stuff like this. It has prevented African Americans from finding common cause with other oppressed groups. It doesn't weaken the legitimacy of complaints about brutality to know that other people have been treated badly too. But there is no unique mistreatment suffered by African Americans that has not been suffered by other people in our nation's past.
"(Your lizard is saying that 1) our claims are crazily wrong, and/or 2) that we're ignoring the obvious reasons for this selective attention. In this case, as in several others, we'll suggest the possibility that your lizard is wrong.)"ReplyDelete
Well, that's the end of that discussion. "If you disagree with me, it's just your lizard brain talking."
Did you insult your pupils like this when you were a teacher, Bob?
People who push back against the racist thinking of the "slaveholders" are pushing back because the racist thinking of the slaveholders still exists, and may be on the rise. When this racist thinking leads to racially discriminatory laws and policies, it has to be opposed precisely because it is racially discriminatory.ReplyDelete
White women earn 83 cents on the white male dollar. Black women earn 68 cents. Latina women earn 53 cents. Focusing only on a black/white racial disparity neglects other groups that have encountered discrimination too.Delete
Liberals don't focus solely on a black/white disparity. It is one disparity among others. Somerby is specifically talking about racial issues in his post here, and he criticizes the very notion of looking at race.Delete
If you research his blog, you will see that he has also criticized liberals for worrying about the wage gap between men and women.
Somerby explicitly gives primacy to black racial issues. I realize that liberals in general think more broadly. I am addressing Somerby, not liberals.Delete
Anon 2:24 wrote "White women earn 83 cents on the white male dollar. Black women earn 68 cents. Latina women earn 53 cents."Delete
These ratios are NOT proof of discrimination. Any subgroup will earn more or less than white males due to their culture and behavior. E.g., Mormons, Hindus and Jews earn considerably more than average. But, it would be foolish to conclude that there's discrimination in favor of Jews, Hindus and Mormons.
"If you research his blog, you will see that he has also criticized liberals for worrying about the wage gap between men and women."Delete
Yeah, looked into this.
Somerby criticized MISSTATING the gap. You may disagree with exactly what the gap is, and what explains it, but you're making shit up when you say Somerby opposed worrying about wage gaps.
Yesterday, Somerby was anguished about the low achievement of black students relative to white students in our schools. He showed that the achievement gaps persist even when income level is factored in. He says we don't really care about black kids. But today, he criticizes liberals for adhering to the whole notion of "race", because it is a harmful notion stemming from the "world the slaveholders made."ReplyDelete
How can you deal with those "black kids" that Somerby so deeply cares about without treating them as a separate group, AS "black" kids? Their problems to a certain extent stem from that "world the slaveholders made", and cannot be viewed entirely outside that context.
Somerby likes to chastise "liberals" for focusing on race as if the focus on race were merely a way to attack conservatives. But in order to care about those black kids, you have to include that aspect in order to search for solutions.
I think Somerby is trying to suggest that everyone thinks shootings of unarmed black people are more frequent because they get a lot of media attention. He is wrong about that, depending on what people watch in different localities.ReplyDelete
For example, I live in the Los Angeles area. We have footage of the guy from Sacramento who was shot recently, but we also had local coverage of the white homeless man who was shot in Venice Beach for attacking a woman in a café, and the recent trial of the police officer who shot the white schizophrenic man who was wielding a knife. We hear about the white shootings on our local TV news shows. They don't make it to cable because they are not seen as part of a larger national issue, but rather are part of unfortunate local policing, addressed via our citizen oversight of the police commission, and other avenues. Somerby is unaware of this stuff because he lives in Baltimore area. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it does affect our impressions of who gets shot.
I don't know anyone who watches Rachel Maddow but doesn't watch local news.
"Somerby is trying to suggest that everyone thinks shootings of unarmed black people are more frequent..."Delete
That's not what I saw here. I saw Somerby saying, he'd like someone to actually research what people think they know about shootings.
I would also like to know what people think they know about this.
I would be unsurprised if people turn out to largely misinformed. But perhaps I'm wrong and people know exactly what's going on.
This type of research can be valuable. Similar questions have been asked, for example about taxation: "Did your federal tax rate go up, or down, or stay the same while Mr. X (Y, Z) was President?" Turns out, people hardly knew anything.
I agree. But the bigger question is, why are cops shooting people at all? Local cops shouldn’t be armed with fatal weapons as far as I’m concerned. If police encounter a situation they can’s de-escalate on their own, only then should even the notion of fatal force (backup) be brought to bear. As a white guy, I’m afraid of anyone who carries a gun openly, and much more so when they can throw me in jail or kill me “justifiably,” which explains why someone might run away. It doesn’t explain why cops would shoot someone in the back. What are the stats on that, “race-wise,” I wonder?Delete
Cops are actually afraid, and rightfully so, because our nation is swimming in guns, and this results in tragedies. Thanks, NRA! And thank you, Scalia et.al. Your “originalist” interpretation of the 2nd Amendment only exacerbated the problems of our bang bang culture.
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