STARTING TOMORROW: Passionate intensities!

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2023

Information rarely intrudes: This very morning, on Morning Joe, the gang readjusted the focus of what we'd call their passionate intensity.

Over the past few weeks, the focus of their passionate intensity had been the (unexplainable) antisemitism which is allegedly widely found on college campuses—even among presidents of major universities.

Today, the focus shifted back to Donald J. Trump. As for Donald J. Trump himself, his passionate intensity led him to comment, this very weekend, about wiping out "the vermin"—removing them from the land.

Full disclosure:

As Baltimore residents, we've been watching the Baltimore Ravens since the 2001 season. In the past few years, we've often wondered if the nation's various sports pundits have ever watched a Ravens game over the past five years.

So too this morning! We sometimes wonder if the Morning Joe gang have any real idea concerning what's being said, with passionate intensity, over there on the other side.

(On many occasions, our own blue tribe has settled on a dangerous point of pride—we shouldn't listen to what's being said by the Others! Warning: Some of what we saw on this morning's Fox & Friends makes powerful political sense, and even seems to make powerful sense on the merits.)

Full disclosure:

We aren't telling you that Yeats was a political savant. As far as we know, he wasn't.

That said, we thought of one of his famous poems as we watched various factions spout and yell this morning. The lines have been quoted again and again. The famous lines go like this:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst   
Are full of passionate intensity.

So begins The Second Coming. The leading authority on the famous poem thumbnails it as shown:

"The Second Coming" is a poem that was written by Irish poet W. B. Yeats in 1919, first printed in The Dial in November 1920 and included in his 1921 collection of verses Michael Robartes and the Dancer. The poem uses Christian imagery regarding the Apocalypse and Second Coming to describe allegorically the atmosphere of post-war Europe. It is considered a major work of modernist poetry and has been reprinted in several collections, including The Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry.

The poem was written in 1919 in the aftermath of the First World War and the beginning of the Irish War of Independence in January 1919, which followed the Easter Rising in April 1916, and before the British government had decided to send in the Black and Tans to Ireland. Yeats used the phrase "the second birth" instead of "the Second Coming" in his first drafts.

[...]

Phrases and lines from the poem are used in many works, in a variety of media, such as literature, motion pictures, television, and music...

In the aftermath of the First World War, Yeats thought the center wouldn't be able to hold, in part because the least constructive people were "full of passionate intensity."

So it almost seems to go in this very day, right here in our own struggling nation. Can "the center" be expected to hold given the current arrangement of our frequently clownish "news" culture?

Consider:

On Fox, viewers are told that Barack Obama has always had "a deep hatred of Israel"—with apologies, that he needs a sign in his yard, a yard sign which says, "Kill the Jews."

That's what red tribe viewers hear on a lazy Sunday morning, with no one on hand to question such remarkable statements. That said, in the past month, the shouting on certain blue tribe programs has tended in the same general direction. As always, the passionate intensities have tended to work like this:

Even on these blue tribe programs, the shouters say they can't imagine why any decent person's views don't perfectly align with their own. The speaker's views are perfectly right. Everyone else is a monster and, of course, a liar, or so we viewers are told.

This morning, Joe moved on from antisemitism and back to Donald J. Trump. We were back to abortion rights and "the Muslim ban," and on to Trump's newly stated intention to go after the vermin.

Do sports pundits ever watch Ravens' games? More and more in recent years, we haven't felt real sure.

So too with the various intensities which now emerge from all sides. We hear a lot of shouting and yelling. On very, very rare occasions, a tiny dribble of relevant information may be allowed to break through.

Donald J. Trump has now explicitly said that he'll take care of "the vermin." Also, it's said, with passionate intensity, that Barack Obama has always had a deep hatred, even that he needs a sign.

The intensities have been full of passion on various red and blue TV shows. Ratings are up, up, up, up, up. Though also, the polls are scary.

That said, can "the center" be expected to hold in the face of such an array of siftings? In the face of these widely performed "ceremonies of innocence?"

Tomorrow: For starters, an extremely passionate Harvard professor very much hates a key word


97 comments:

  1. 69% of Democrats think Biden is too old to effectively serve as president. Barack Obama harbors a profound animosity towards women.

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    1. a much higher percentage of Democrats would choose Biden over Trump without the slightest hesitation. and no one knows what the fuck you're talking about with regard to Obama.

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    2. I'm talking about women. Obama's women started to hit him. Just to make him know they're there.

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    3. oh i see. yeah, comedy gold

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    4. Same troll who was commenting that Obama is gay. He left out the part about Michelle being trans, but they tell that joke on the right all the time.

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    5. The Right knows 100 times more about comedy, than they do about economics.

      100 x 0 = 0.

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  2. "On Fox, viewers are told that Barack Obama has always had "a deep hatred of Israel""

    But that's okay, really. In this post-colonial era most people on this plane despise the last remaining European settler-colony and apartheid practiced there. Politicians and the government media declaring it sacrosanct doesn't change anything.

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    1. I suppose people are talking so much about Obama because that is easier than talking about present conditions in Israel. Obama is not president. He is a private citizen and his views no longer matter.

      Right wingers love to attack Obama (who Trump sees as his nemesis) and Hillary (who actually was Trump's nemesis in 2016) as a way to own the libs. Why is Somerby encouraging that by repeating a stupid segment from Fox News and joining in the attack?

      This is a distraction and doesn't even address the crisis in Israel in any way. Somerby, of course, will not touch that topic. As always, he is driving his wedge further into the gulf between the two parties.

      Several political analyses have shown that the left has not moved further left to the same extent as the right has shifted right. The right has moved away to an extreme, leaving no center, no moderate position on the right. The left is being portrayed as extreme when it has not shifted leftward but has been pulled closer to center.

      The idea of a large moderate center that is being given no voice is incorrect. That is not what polling shows. There is a third-way, no labels, pretend centrist position that is actually not moderate but a different political view entirely. They will be trying to convince voters that they are the inheritors of the middle, the moderates, when their proposals are as radical as the right's positions, just different from theirs.

      Sometimes it sounds as if Somerby is shilling for that so-called centrist approach. We will know more when they decide whether to throw the election to Trump by running a third-party candidate themselves. Meanwhile, Somerby's rejection of involvement in politics, by rejecting the passionate intensity of people who care deeply about what is happening in Israel, irrespective of their arguments, is mainly a way to declare his own neutrality. It isn't as if he has done anything whatsoever to sift through the disinformation and clarify the situation himself. He just blames others for talking, but how else does change and diplomacy occur -- by talking or fighting, and I prefer talking.

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    2. Going after Obama was on the Right Wing a@shat bingo card last week, our own Cecelia cried “feckless” and Bill Maher unsurprisingly chimed in. Imagine. there might be two sides to this! It’s a lot easier than trying to sort any of this out in a serious way.

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  3. Somerby admiringly quotes a Yeats poem that was written toward the end of his life, during a period when he was drawn toward the rising facism in Europe and abandoning faith in democracy. Somerby says:

    "In the aftermath of the First World War, Yeats thought the center wouldn't be able to hold, in part because the least constructive people were "full of passionate intensity."

    Wikipedia says of Yeats:

    "Towards the end of his life—and especially after the Wall Street Crash of 1929 and Great Depression, which led some to question whether democracy could cope with deep economic difficulty—Yeats seems to have returned to his aristocratic sympathies. During the aftermath of the First World War, he became sceptical about the efficacy of democratic government, and anticipated political reconstruction in Europe through totalitarian rule.[85] His later association with Pound drew him towards Benito Mussolini, for whom he expressed admiration on a number of occasions.[76] He wrote three "marching songs"—never used—for the Irish General Eoin O'Duffy's Blueshirts."

    The Blueshirts were a fascist organization in Ireland. Wikipedia also says this about Yeats:

    " He was a fierce opponent of individualism and political liberalism and saw the fascist movements as a triumph of public order and the needs of the national collective over petty individualism. He was an elitist who abhorred the idea of mob-rule, and saw democracy as a threat to good governance and public order.[66] After the Blueshirt movement began to falter in Ireland, he distanced himself somewhat from his previous views, but maintained a preference for authoritarian and nationalist leadership.[67]"

    Somerby perhaps only quotes Yeats because of the line about passionate intensity. For Yeats, that referred to those involved in the movement for Irish independence from Britain. It does matter what that intensity is directed toward. Decrying all intensity is the reaction of an old man speaking 10 years before his death, losing energy and looking at youth with jaundiced eyes.

    All of this has nothing to do with Israel/Gaza, but it does perhaps reflect Somerby's own psyche. He has seemed to be saying that the emotion surrounding this issue is bad, that "passionate intensity" that keeps the center from holding.

    Meanwhile, Kevin Drum has several times presented graphs showing that the political divide directly parallels the viewership of Fox News and that partisan disinformation has pushed the political parties in the US apart, for the benefit of autocrats who have funded Republicans like Trump and the right wing circus of self-interested greedy morons. Extremism is owned by the right and arose because of deliberate manipulation of right wing voters by billionaires and con artists (Steve Bannon, Roger Stone). It may take some passionate intensity on the left to preserve democracy (as it took to liberate Ireland), but it was cold-blooded mercenary interests (like those of the 1930s fascists) who broke Europe under Hitler's reich.

    Emotion motivates change. Change is necessary to survive under fluctuating environmental conditions. Species that cannot change become extinct. The world is changing whether individual people like it or not. The cry on the right to return to a nostalgic past (encouraged in Hitler's time as well) may prevent us from enacting the measures we will need to adapt to global warming and the upheavals that is already bringing all over our globe. Somerby is wrong about what we need to do, but his longing for peace is natural. He just doesn't know how to accomplish it, so he latches on the emotionally appealing ideas of fascism embodied by Trump and the right, and encourages their attempts to tear down our flexible government system, which was originally designed to cope with the growth of a new nation. That is the way out of this situation, nor is searching for an idealized center position that was destroyed by Fox News. Obama showed us that during his two terms in office.

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    1. Type correction: "That is the way out" should be "That is NOT the way out..."

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    2. Is, is not. Either is correct.

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    3. anhon 10:23, I see your mind is churning, as i does on a daily basis to come up with ways to attack the blogger. But, I don't get it. Where is it that the blogger has "latch[ed] on the emotionally appealing ideas of fascism embodied by
      Trump and the right" and where has he "encouraged their attempts to tear down our flexible government?" What words in this post or any other post has he ever done anything like this? I won't hold my breath for a plausible explanation from you, but stranger things have possibly happened.

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    4. Somerby "latches on the emotionally appealing ideas of fascism embodied by Trump and the right, and encourages their attempts to tear down our flexible government system"

      This, of course, is pure batshittery.

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    5. I remember during the 2016 campaign when Trump suggested that Hillary could be assassinated byt the "2nd Amendment people" -

      "If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know."

      It seemed at the time that Trump had finally crossed the line of decency. That lasted a couple days, then it was back to business for the press and butter-emails 24/7.

      Then he refused to accept the results of the 2020 election and incited an attack on the U.S. Capitol.

      His adoring fans love him even more.

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    6. I would say that Trump has crossed a line here, and that he is fully supported by right wing media and the Republican Party. If Somerby wishes to chalk this up as another of Trump’s mentally ill statements , and talk about pitying him, without condemning the apparatus that supports him in his stated goal to rule as a fascist, then what does that say?

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    7. Classic SDS.

      Your second sentence starts by posing a hypothetical about something Somerby might do.

      But instead of closing with the subjunctive "what would that say?", you close with the present-tense "what does that say?" as if he's actually doing this thing he's only doing in your imagination.

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    8. I’m just saying that Somerby has never had much to say about the wrongness of Trump’s actions, about Jan 6, and those things demand condemnation, in my opinion. We will see how he handles the vermin thing, but if past is prelude, Somerby will just ascribe it to Trump being mentally ill and express his pity and sympathy. At some point, that behavior starts to enable Trump and his apparatus. Trump is sounding more openly fascistic.

      We will see.

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    9. Hector, you beautiful summbitch. That's spot on. The two Somerby-hating yentas on here long ago decided that, come hell or high water, they were just going to come on here every single day, until either they or Somerby shuffle off their mortal coil, and vomit up some kind of negative sounding utterance about whatever Somerby said. Didn't matter if they pulled it out of their ass, didn't matter if it was accurate, didn't matter if it they really believed in what they were saying, didn't matter how utterly uncontroversial or common-sensical a post Somerby might type up -- all that matters is to say something negative. It really is just trolling, plain and simple. It gets to the point of parody sometimes -- when they can't really find anything to fault, they'll just make shit up . . . it kind of sort of seems like Somerby might want to say something along the lines of I hate babies and puppies . . . he's makes me sick. I've laughed out loud sometimes at how far they'll stretch to come up with something negative to say. Only the invention of the internet could ever have given rise to such a phenomenon. I think it all started when Somerby started criticizing Rachel Maddow. They lost their minds when that happened.

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    10. Oh that was mh that said that. My bad. I wasn't referring to mh in my rant above. mh has mostly substantive comments. I was referring to the two Anonymice that just troll Somerby day after day.
      Yours was still a nice little bit of spot-on analysis though.

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    11. Bob's reciting the Right-wing Grievance of the Day isn't helping matters.

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    12. I had no idea that the right-wing was criticizing Fox News for not giving sufficient air time to Palestinian viewpoints or for allowing its guests to imply that Obama was an anti-Semite. Good to know.

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    13. "so he (Somerby) latches on the emotionally appealing ideas of fascism embodied by Trump and the right, and encourages their attempts to tear down our flexible government system"

      Is this curious conclusion drawn from today's post? Wherein Somerby says:

      'Yeats thought the center wouldn't be able to hold, in part because the least constructive people were "full of passionate intensity,' and in which Somerby 3 times brings up Trump's 'vermin' remark as a case in point.

      On what evidence do you base your statement that Somerby encourages fascists?

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    14. Did you not read the part about Yeats' love affair with fascism or did you just not understand it? Somerby has also quoted Ezra Pound's poetry here -- another Mussolini admirer. It isn't my fault if you guys don't know anything about politics from before you were born.

      This is Somerby's understatement about Yeats and fascism. It shows he knows what he was quoting.

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    15. Oops, forgot the quote:

      "We aren't telling you that Yeats was a political savant. As far as we know, he wasn't."

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    16. So the argument is: Somerby quoted Yeats/Pound. Yeats/Pound were fascists. Therefore Somerby is a fascist.

      Or is it: Somerby isn't sure if Yeats was a political savant. Therefore Somerby is a fascist.

      Could it be that what one quotes matters more than who one quotes? And that what one says about a quote matters most of all?

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  4. Isaac Chotiner interviewed Daniella Weiss:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

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  5. The Republican Party and Trump’s base are fully behind Trump’s “vermin” rhetoric. Not a single peep of pushback.

    Will Somerby see the grave danger of this, or will he return to pitying Trump for his so-called mental illness?

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    1. Donald Trump's opponents are not vermin. They are only fascist-racist-sexist-allphobic deplorables, enemies of all goodness and threats to everything we hold dear.

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    2. Thanks for the clarification, that opposition to the one man Donald Trump brands one an enemy of goodness. Good to know the Führerprinzip.

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    3. 1:17,
      That explains why Trump looks so weak and feeble.

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    4. Somerby isn't what he used to be. One day he tells the truth and the next day it's all lies. He stirs things up. What about the good old days?

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  6. The antisemitism on college campuses is perfectly explainable. In fact it has been explained in a number of posts mostly found on conservative sites. Here are some factors:

    1. Antisemitism is universal and timeless. New excuses may be found for antisemitism but the unchanging factor is the antisemitism.

    2. Colleges recently have accepted a number of Islamic students. Antisemitism is an official part of Islam. It's required in the Koran.

    3. Far left liberals are anti-Israel, because Israelis are viewed as oppressors while Palestinians are viewed as victims. Anti-Israel quickly morphs into antisemitism..

    4. Antisemitism has been tolerated by college administrators in a way that racism against blacks would never be permitted.

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    1. Just found a relevant comment on Instapundit. If Bob read Instapundit, he wouldn't find liberal antisemitism so hared to understand

      . “There is an ironically neocolonial feel to the cultural elites’ absolution of Hamas. It is their indoctrination into the politics of identity that leads them to view Israel as the culpable adult in this relationship and the Palestinians as blameless children. Critical-race-theory narratives about white privilege and brown victimhood have led to a situation where not only are whites demonised as powerful and destructive but also non-white people are patronised to an obscene degree as non-powerful and pathetic. This hollow, pat explanation for every political event has now been cut-and-pasted on to the Middle East (despite the fact that Israel is not a ‘white’ country).

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    2. The antisemites in the far left hate President Biden. The antisemites on the right love Trump. Context.

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    3. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2023/11/israeli-fascism

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    4. @David
      "1. Antisemitism is universal and timeless. New excuses may be found for antisemitism but the unchanging factor is the antisemitism."

      If you believe this to be true, do you have an explanation? Or is it an inexplicable world's mystery?

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    5. Well, @1:57, Thomas Sowell's answer is that Jews are hated because they succeed. Another answer is that Jews have always been a minority, so it's safe to hate them. Also, Jews tend to be non-violent. By comparison, it's riskier to hate Muslims, because they more often react with violence. Salmon Rushdie learned this lesson.

      BTW I am particularly bothered by antisemitism in the black community. It's particularly unfair, because Jews played an outsized role in the civil rights movement.

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    6. The IDF does not believe in non-violence.

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    7. You can never be wrong about anyone else’s antisemitism, can you David? Every instance you find is real and undeniable. Such as Obama.

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    8. Anonymouse 2.28pm, I think that’s the D for Defense thing.

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    9. What a bunch of nonsense. No, antisemitism isn't universal. Overwhelmingly, people in western cultures are not antisemitic. And people in the two most populous countries in the world (India and China) are barely aware that Jewish people even exist.

      "Colleges recently have accepted a number of Islamic students."  What in the world??  Were they not supposed to accept "a number" of Islamic students?  And prior to "recently," did they NOT accept "a number" of Islamic students?  WTF are you talking about?

      "Anti-Israel quickly morphs into antisemitism."  No, it doesn't.  Liberals for the most part go out of their way to distinguish between being anti-Israeli government and antisemitic.  And true antisemitism is a much bigger problem on the right. 

      You're confusing people's opposition to a particular nation's (arguably) overreaction to a terrorist attack and its slaughtering of thousands of civilians with antisemitism. 

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    10. Criticism of ObamaCare leads to anti-Americanism. Which leads to hatred of all that America stands for. Which leads to the Right throwing a childish temper tantrum, just because black people's votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election.
      Being more vigilant in fighting criticism of ObamaCare might have kept us from the Right's call for civil war.

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    11. David, you might watch the film The Pawnbroker. It is about a Jewish man who runs a pawn shop in a black neighborhood, and his relations with black neighbors and customers. There is a perception among poor black people that Jewish business owners were price gouging and taking advantage of their poverty in their small businesses. The same situation has existed in Los Angeles between blacks and Korean immigrant small business owners in black neighborhoods.

      It has nothing to do with religion or ethnicity.

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    12. Mike - think about what Biden did with the pipeline now that his family is being pulled in to testify about their business deals with China and Guam. That's not going to make the age issue go away. That's why you may want to reexamine your position.

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    13. I have no idea what right-wing, conspiratorial, six degrees of Kevin Bacon bullshit your peddling. Instead of me reexamining my position, I think you need to have your head examined.

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    14. You've been pretty much already exposed in that department. Takes one to know one, right ;)

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  7. I’ve discussed antisemitism with Corby. We’re both against it.

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  8. A Nazi commander named Hermann
    Was hated because he was German
    But, even while warring
    No one would call Goring
    An epithet nasty as "vermin"

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    1. But it was OK to call him a Nazi.

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    2. That’s so funny, David, because trump is using a term the Nazis used for Jews to justify the Holocaust, but he’s applying it to liberals, so it’s totally cool.

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    3. David,
      We'll know how successful Jews really are, when they replace the Right-wingers who protested them in Charlottesville.

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    4. Did the Nazis call the Jews deplorable?

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    5. Did the Jews call Nazis "vermin"? Or were they too well-mannered?

      I don't know. I think some Jews might've called Nazis "vermin". ...No, wait. No. Clearly, it would be too inconsiderate.

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    6. Anonymouse 3:40pm, and too, calling Nazis vermin is literally Hitler.

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    7. David had some truths to tell me yesterday but the site locked me out so I will give it a go now. He objects to Obama calling Gaza occupied. Many if not most middle east experts consider Gaza an occupied territory insofar as Israelis control electricity, water, commerce in and out and movement of Palestinians in and out of Gaza. Gaza Palestinians are very closely monitored as well with sophisticated technology including facial recognition in major cities.Most sensible people would concur that a territory in which commerce is controlled by an outside state, utilities are controlled by an outside state and the free movement of its citizens is impeded by an outside state is the definition of an occupation. David would do well to find someone with firsthand knowledge as a visitor to this area to describe the conditions imposed upon the Gaza population by the Israelis. David also argues that Hamas was elected by this population and therefore represents its population; they are culpable. 65% of that population is under the age of 25 and had nothing to do with those politics in their unborn state. Meanwhile, Netanyahu advocated the financial support of Hamas, as an adult, in 2019. It can easily be argued that the leader of Israel is more culpable for the activities of Hamas than a grade school child living in occupation there. Finally, David suggests that we accept the Condemnation of Palestinians as a whole, as we did with Germany even though the culprits leading to WWII were a minority group. Wow. There is this entity called the Nazi Party that was wildly popular in Germany right around that time, David. You may need to brush up on your history. I do not recall a more ignorant comment coming from a Jewish person, ever. And you've made your fair share.

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    8. Incidentally, when all commerce that enters and exits a territory is controlled by an entity other than its inhabitants, it is flat out stupid to lay the place the blame for their poverty exclusively at their feet, as DIC has done on multiple occasions.

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    9. Actually, the Nazi party wasn't wildly popular. In the last free election (1932) they got 33% of the vote. Socialists and Communists together got more votes, but unfortunately didn't manage to form a coalition.

      And even if war-time propaganda, both Western and Soviet, did accuse all the Germans, obviously that wasn't any kind of a rational assessment.

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    10. Unamused, go to church why don't you?

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    11. 4:59, how popular were they in 1938?

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    12. Thanks for your response, unamused. The debate over the word "occupied" is merely semantical. A more important question is whether Israel's degree of control over Gaza hampers their economic well-being. I see no evidence that this is the case.

      The horrific attacks on Israel show that Israel did not exercise that much control over Gaza. One can expect Israel to maintain more control to prevent similar attacks in the future.

      The control mechanisms including facial recognition were a reaction to ongoing attack by Palestinians on Israelis. If the Palestinians stopped attacking, Israel would relax their security measures.

      As you say, at one point Netanyahu had positive feelings toward Hamas. Obviously this turned out to be a mistake. If you're assigning blame., that might matter. If you're looking for a solution, it's irrelevant. I mention the Palestinians having elected Hamas not to blame them, but to offer evidence that Hamas is popular.

      As you say, the German military aggression was popular with the German people. Is Hamas's military aggression popular with the Palestinian people? I see no evidence that it isn't. Where are the Palestinians angrily protesting what Hamas did in Israel? Where are the Palestinians protesting hte rocket barrages that Hamas has been firing at Israeli civilians for a long time?

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    13. Cute. But Goering rhymes with wearing, not warring.

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    14. Quaker in a BasementNovember 13, 2023 at 9:06 PM

      "A more important question is whether Israel's degree of control over Gaza hampers their economic well-being. I see no evidence that this is the case."

      Israel has blockaded Gaza for more than 15 years. If you're not seeing evidence this hampers the economy of Gaza, you're not looking.

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    15. The better analogy with Hitler is not Israel but Trump.

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    16. Goering does not rhyme with any English word.

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    17. 5:15 What exactly is your point? What church would you direct me to? I am curious: do you advocate religion as a solution to conflict? If so, give examples. You can start with the Mideast.

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    18. "4:59, how popular were they in 1938?"

      That's impossible to know. Socialists and (even more so) communist were being killed or locked up in concentration camps. Who would want to volunteer their opinion in opposition to the Nazis?

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    19. Did you ever see film of the Austrian Anschluss?

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    20. No. What of it?

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    21. As you say, at one point Netanyahu had positive feelings toward Hamas. Obviously this turned out to be a mistake. If you're assigning blame., that might matter. If you're looking for a solution, it's irrelevant.

      David, I always thought the first step in proposing a solution to a problem is to understand what went wrong before. It wasn't "positive feelings" towards Hamas, Netanyahu was affirmatively funding them. You think his West Bank settlement policy might have something to do with it.

      It is fascinating how you are able to just brush aside the catastrophic leadership of this extreme right wing PM who has been engaged in fighting for "reform" of the court system and tearing his country apart to save his corrupt sorry ass. If this had been a progressive left government that had allowed this horrific attack, I am sure you would be drawing all kinds of prescriptive policy solutions.

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  9. David, you are vermin. But I’m not antisemitic. Cecelia is vermin, too.

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  10. Vermin are adorable.

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  11. I don’t know, Dogface, Bob meanders today like Trump under oath. He starts with a sort of swipe against Morning Joe, floats around to once again hitting an admittedly grotesque moment from Fox News, then a great moment from poetry that had been quoted to death, and ends essentially admitting the Morning Joe crew was on the right track. He must have wanted to do “Trump Trump Trump” but it wasn’t in him. The vermin thing?

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    1. Somerby certainly does like a good meander!

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  12. Be sure to read this interview:


    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

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    1. I'd almost say you're promoting the soft bigotry of low expectations.

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    2. I'd say that if you don't want to conclude that the leader of the settlement movement is a nasty piece of work without a shred of humanity, probably best to skip the article. The last questions- or rather the last answers- are confirmatory. A far right wing Zionist who specifically claims God given rights not bestowed upon Christians nor Muslims. Undoubtedly goes to church to reinforce her contempt for others outside her religious sect, 5:15.

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    3. "A far right wing Zionist who specifically claims God given rights not bestowed upon Christians nor Muslims."

      Wait - this is news to you? Why?

      Confirmatory of what?

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    4. All actually existing Zionists are 'right-wing'.

      Lefties don't do ethnic cleansing. Lefties don't designate preferred ethnicities and undesirable ethnicities. That's just how it is.

      And the same goes for liberal race-mongers everywhere.

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    5. Makes sense , Boris. Thanks for taking Putin's dick out of your mouth for 5 seconds to write that.

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  13. The term "occupied" in this context is not the least bit semantical; otherwise you and the unhinged guest on Fox would not be condemning Obama for the use of the term, David. When the draconian restrictions placed on Palestinians in Gaza are pointed out, you suddenly retreat to an Emily Litella "never mind" fallback position. It is absurd to suggest that the 10/7 carnage is an argument that Israel's embargo and occupation of Gaza has not oppressed Palestinians and sabotaged their prosperity. There are Israelis living in Israel of all places that take exception to the Israeli apartheid against Palestinians. And I will not be walking back that term as "semantical". Amnesty International uses it to describe Israel's " oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control....". Just how many Israelis have been oppressed their entire lives by Palestinians? That is a question but also an answer to the kind of disingenuous posturing you assume in expecting Gaza natives to condemn Hamas while in the process of being bombed . Don't expect some Palestinian child to crawl out from the rubble and express a political opinion here. What you do or don't see is, as well put by Quaker above, is on you. My suspicion is that you wouldn't recognize a NeoNazi if he was standing next to you at a Trump rally. And I don't recall your publicly speaking out against them, for that matter, which by your reasoning renders you complicit with them.

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    1. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge on this subject that 4 weeks ago you knew absolutely nothing about.

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  14. Regarding the comment about the Nazi's popularity, I agree with 5:33. Hitler's popularity increased after 1932 for a variety of reasons but perhaps "wildly popular" is not substantiated. Visit the Holocaust Museum in Berlin and you will be left with the impression that ultimately the widespread hatred of Jews and others is accepted as history by Germans.

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    1. But Hitler lost the 1932 presidential election quite decisively. 37% vs 53% for Hindenburg, with another 10% for Thälmann (KPD), according to wikipedia.

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    2. Oh, after 1932 you say. But that's impossible to know.

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    3. He got 44% in 1933.

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    4. That wasn't a real election. Everything after the reichstag fire, it don't count.

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    5. ...interesting, though, that even in the environment of widespread nazi repression he could only manage 44%.

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    6. Right, it doesn't count but it does count. Brilliant.

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