PROPHECY: Sacred Troy must die, he said!

MONDAY, JUNE 17, 2024

Is history rhyming this year? It's one of western literature's first great scenes. It's part of a wider collection of scenes, involving an array of memorable characters.

We refer to the scene, in the Iliad's Book Six, where "Hector of the flashing helmet" issues an accurate prophecy.

Hector was a prince of Troy. His father, Priam, was the king of that wealthy walled city, which has been under siege for more than nine years as the famous "poem of war" begins.

By most assessments, Hector is the most upstanding character in the Iliad. According to Greek mythology, the gods had given his sister the gift of prophecy, but only with an attendant curse—her prophecies, though accurate, would never be believed. 

That said, Cassandra is barely mentioned in the Iliad. It's Hector who serves as a prophet, right there in Book Six, still early in the poem.

Heading off to a fight from which he wouldn't necessarily return, Hector rejects the plea by Andromache, "his warm, generous wife," that he remain safely behind magnificent Troy's high walls.

In his reply, Hector gives voice to the ancient warrior ethic—an ancient ethic which is bred deep in our species' bones. Also this:

As he rejects the plea of his generous wife, he issues an accurate prophecy. What follows is a small but telling part of what he says:

I would die of shame to face the men of Troy
and the Trojan women trailing their long robes
if I would shrink from battle now, a coward.
Nor does the spirit urge me on that way.
I've learned it all too well. To stand up bravely,
always to fight in the front ranks of Trojan soldiers.
winning my father great glory, glory for myself.
For in my heart and soul I also know this well:
the day will come when sacred Troy must die,
Priam must die and all his people with him...

The day will come when sacred Troy must die! So says Hector to his wife, as part of a much longer, brutal prophecy.

As every future Greek citizen knew, Hector had issued an accurate prophecy. His prophecy included the fate of his own father "and all his people with him." 

(He also prophesied what would happen to his wife after sacred Troy had died. We'll show you that startling part of his prophecy before the week is through.)

At any rate, The day will come when sacred Troy must die! We'll admit it:

We awoke, this past Saturday morning, recalling that sacred line. In the current staging of this ancient story, the role of Priam is being played by President Biden, who either will, or possibly won't, get re-elected this year.

Can President Biden get re-elected? We often find it hard to believe that he will—but then too, he certainly might. 

That said, also this:

We've long been told, in Blue America, that if President Biden falls, "our democracy" will likely fall with him. According to that ubiquitous prophecy, our democracy, such as it is, is likely to die.

That prophecy has been widely issued within our own Blue America. As such, a basic question arises:

Might Blue America, along with its professed ideals, start to meet the fate of Troy before the year is through?

Back to the ancient text:

By the end of the Iliad, it's clear that Hector's prophecy will turn out to be accurate. Hector has been killed in combat by Achilles. His body has been dragged through the dust before the walls of Troy as his father looks on.

It's clear that Hector's aim was true. How about the corresponding prophecy we hear on Morning Joe?

At this site, we continue to shrink from the pain of watching Blue America's "thought leaders" as they attempt to discuss the current election campaign. Beyond that, we hold to our own deathless bromide: 

Everything we ever needed to know we learned from reading the Iliad.

The Iliad is full of brilliant storytelling. It's full of brilliantly shaped dramatic scenes—narrations engineered through hundreds of years of the familiar folk process. 

By way of contrast:

Here in Blue America, our attempts at conducting a discourse have become an embarrassing mess. Our discourse has long since come to resemble a clown show, in ways which we, the people of Blue America, may not be equipped to notice.

It's been that way for at least forty years. We just keep coming back for more, more from the usual suspects. 

Can President Biden get re-elected? If not—indeed, even if so—what will happen next? 

Concerning the first of those questions, we'll get the start of an answer next week, when the president is scheduled to engage in a debate with Candidate Donald J. Trump.

Assuming the event takes place, can President Biden emerge in viable form as a candidate? 

We were encouraged by video clips from yesterday's event in Hollywood. In the larger sense, we'll all start to find out next week. 

Meanwhile, Blue America's "thought leaders" continue to offer a master class in the limits of human capability. A relentless gong show is offered on Fox. By this point, our own nation's "favorite reporters and friends" are almost as bad.

Here in Blue America, we've descended to the point where we're surreptitiously taping utterly pointless conversations with public figures' wives. Where we're claiming that we need to know who may have zoomed who, on one alleged occasion ten years before, before we can know how to vote.

How the gods on Olympus must laugh at these imitations of life!

Is our Blue America—is our Blue American civilization, as least as we imagine it—destined to meet the fate of sacred Troy by the end of this year? Also, how did we get to the place where that seems like a real possibility?

We'll examine those questions this week, drawing upon western literature's first great surviving text. 

History doesn't repeat itself, we're often told. History doesn't repeat itself, but it frequently rhymes.

At present, we think we might be hearing a bit of rhyming as we consider an ancient text.

In the Iliad, a great and wealthy, civilized city is destined to fall after ten years of a brutal siege—a brutal siege conducted by a brutal invading force. In his lengthy introduction to Robert Fagles' 1990 translation, the late Bernard Knox offered this overview of the contrast between those civilizations:

The first city we hear of in Greek literature is Troy. It is characteristic of the Iliad's tragic viewpoint that this city, the literary prototype of all Greek cities. is to be destroyed. The poem ends before Troy falls, but we are left in no doubt about its fate. 

One of the deep sources of the tragic force of the Iliad is that the city of Troy is doomed, doomed go down in fire and slaughter under the assault of the Achaeans, whose cities are far away and half-forgotten in the long siege, whose home for ten years has been the raw world of tent shelters and beached ships.

[...]

Inside Troy the manners of civilized life are preserved; there are restraints on anger, there is courtesy to opponents, kindness to the weak—things that have no place in the armed camp on the shore. 

[...]

But Troy is not at peace: it is under siege, and by men who mean to raze it from the face of the earth. The arts of peace are useless now. Troy will not be saved by the magnanimity and tender-heartedness of Priam...If it is to survive it will do so because of the devotion, courage and incessant efforts of one man, Priam's son Hector. 

Back then, this fight was all about access to "Helen, radiance of woman." In Blue America, we recently conducted a criminal trial about one candidate's reported access to Stormy Daniels. 

More on sexual politics to follow. For now, we'll offer this:

When Hector falls, it's clear that Troy itself is going to fall. Troy is a magnificent, civilized city, but it's been under siege, for almost ten years, by a gang of lunatics who want to get Helen back.

We've shown you only one small part of Professor Knox's portrait. That said, has history started to rhyme?

At substantial length, Professor Knox creates a portrait of the civilizations which are at war in the Iliad. His portrait rhymes with the way we Blue Americans tend to portray our failing nation's current political dispute.

Over here in Blue America, we portray ourselves as civilized, nuanced, intelligent, decent. We persistently see ourselves as under siege by a group of modern-day Achaeans—by a gang of deplorables, "barbarians at the gates."

You can assess that portrait of Red America as you will. But is history possibly starting to rhyme, in a way which might be instructive?

Hector knew that Troy would die. Over here in Blue America, is "our democracy" destined to die if President Biden loses to the invaders this year?

On Morning Joe (and everywhere else), they keep repeating that prophecy. Depending on what happens this year, that prophecy could of course turn out to be painfully accurate.

Is there something we can learn from the western world's first great poem? At the very least, can we elevate our frame of reference as we wait to see what happens next week, and in the years to come? 

Tomorrow: As told to Hector's wife


56 comments:

  1. Mark James died nine days ago.

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    1. James Kent and Mike Downey have died.

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    2. James Mark is still alive.

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    3. Over 37k people have died in Israel's current Gaza genocide, nearly half were children.

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    4. Please do not hijack discussions here to talk about Gaza.

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    5. Copy that.

      This discussion is about significant deaths, so 11:20 is on target.

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    6. The discussion in general is about Somerby's post of the day. Some troll who is not himself on topic is not an excuse to fill blog comments with Gaza propaganda. Take it outside.

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    7. Agree, 11:54, we essentially have the same goal, to be free from trolls like 9:25 and focus on the discourse sparked by Somerby's bad takes.

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    8. Mark James wrote "Suspicious" minds and co-wrote "Always on My Mind".

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    9. That was "Suspicious Minds".

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    10. Jimmy Page wrote the riff for Whole Lotta Love, he is still alive.

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    11. Brilliant riff.

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    12. Mark James wrote wonderful songs. I note his passing with sorrow.

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    13. I do not care for his songs, so his passing is fine, even if he is in heaven, which is unlikely.

      The Ohio Players wrote "Heaven Must Be Like This", a great song although not one of their best, certainly better than the bland noise from Mark James:

      You know what I think heaven is, I think heaven is you
      You know that a place where I can find happiness
      A place close to your loveliness
      Some where to rest my aching mind, al, al
      Where there′s no time, your love just divine
      Heaven must be like this
      It must be like this
      Heaven must be like this
      It must be like this
      The sweet in sour taste of love
      We just made a good place in the shade
      A glass of lemonade, al, al
      Don't be afraid just love
      Heaven must be
      Heaven must be like this
      Heaven must be like this
      Heaven must be like this
      It must be like this
      Wrap your love around me
      Listen, girl, there′s no place like you
      You're all the places
      A place where I can find happiness
      A place close to your loveliness
      Some where to rest my aching mind, al, al
      Where there is no time
      Heaven must be like this
      It must be like this

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  2. "As every future Greek citizen knew, Hector had issued an accurate prophecy. His prophecy included the fate of his own father "and all his people with him."

    We do not know what actually happened to Troy. It is dead now, but it has been thousands of years since it existed. We do not know whether it died at the hands of the Greeks in the battled described by Homer, or in some other way, or just gradually relocated somewhere else due natural causes.

    Of course it is easy for Hector's prophecy to be true. Everyone is dead who was alive then, including the people of all of the cities, Greek or Trojan. No one lives forever (or much beyond 100 years in the case of people). Does that make Hector a prophet? Assuming he even existed at all, predicting that anyone will die, when everyone dies, is no accomplishment. But it seems to have impressed Somerby.

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    1. Everyone dies, and everyone poops too, but most of us do so in toilets, even though one of our presidential candidates (Trump) poops in his pants/diapers, creating a horrid stench.

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  3. I do not understand how the Trojan War relates to modern day US. I don’t suppose Bob means to compare a horde of illegal immigrants crossing our Southern wall to Greeks sneaking inside the Trojan wall by hiding in a giant horse?

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    1. No, in his statement he compares the Democrats (Blue America) to Troy, which would make the Republicans (Red America) the barbarians. He is predicting that Blue America is going to die, because Troy did in the poem.

      "Might Blue America, along with its professed ideals, start to meet the fate of Troy before the year is through?"

      "Over here in Blue America, we portray ourselves as civilized, nuanced, intelligent, decent. We persistently see ourselves as under siege by a group of modern-day Achaeans—by a gang of deplorables, "barbarians at the gates."

      It is bad enough that Somerby is using a metaphor that doesn't work, without you trying to force-fit it to include your own complaints about immigrants.

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    2. Few political observers are less astute than Somerby.

      This is in part due to Somerby getting everything he knows from storytelling. And bad storytelling at that, no one reads Homer because it is childish nonsense that offers no meaningful insight into human nature. We now know a lot about human nature from science, but Somerby can not be bothered to learn, he is too busy licking his wounds.

      I am old enough to remember when the blue tribe was actually dying, in the aftermath of the disastrous Reagan admin, the blue tribe leaned into neoliberalism, converting itself into the Republican-Lite Party.

      And Somerby cheered that on.

      Then the blue tribe woke up, got off their asses, started protesting, progressives started winning elections, and Biden - an establishment Dem, no less - is governing as our most progressive president since FDR.

      In no small part, this is due to the democratization of media, as progressives/leftists can now have a prominent voice, can take up oxygen as Heather Cox Richardson says.

      In reaction to this circumstance, the red tribe has become more open about their lunacy. If Trump wins, it will be the death knell for the red tribe; Trump will engage in authoritarianism, and it will send the red tribe to the ash heap of history.

      Somerby spends his days demonizing the ongoing corrective transition of Dems from neoliberals to progressives, an attempt to soothe his bitterness and emotional discomfort.

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    3. Homer was a dork.

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  4. "We've long been told, in Blue America, that if President Biden falls, "our democracy" will likely fall with him. According to that ubiquitous prophecy, our democracy, such as it is, is likely to die."

    A statement that begins with the word "if" is not technically a prophecy. It seems more accurate to call it a contingency or a statement of cause and effect.

    prophecy definition: "the foretelling or prediction of what is to come. something that is declared by a prophet, especially a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation. a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies"

    We have no divine prophets. Somerby evades specifying who is a prophet by using passive tense "we have been told". But how do we know that democracy may die IF Biden is not reelected? Because of the things Trump says he will do when elected. He says he will be a dictator on day 1. He says he will seek revenge by putting the justice system (DOJ, FBI) under his control and siccing it on his enemies. He has The Heritage Foundation devising Project 2025:

    "Over more than 900 pages, it calls for sacking thousands of civil servants, expanding the power of the president, dismantling the Department of Education and other federal agencies, and sweeping tax cuts...[It] outlines four pillars: restore the family as the centrepiece of American life; dismantle the administrative state; defend the nation’s sovereignty and borders; and secure God-given individual rights to live freely."

    "All signs indicate that Trump, if reelected, is likely to pursue an authoritarian power grab by, for example, purging professional bureaucrats, expanding the Supreme Court or using the Insurrection Act to deploy the military against protesters. Party members may even support him in that power grab." [The Conversation]

    Somerby today mocks these concerns. He suggests that Blue America will go the way of Troy. He claims that it is Morning Joe saying democracy will die, but offers no quotes or evidence that anyone there said that.

    But Somerby's most ridiculous construct this morning is to equate our current struggled with Troy, then question whether Red America are really barbarians (deplorables) after setting up that equation himself. I guarantee that Morning Joe is NOT comparing Blue America to Troy. And Biden is not Hector or Priam and definitely not Cassandra.

    Every time Somerby returns to sacred Troy, I wonder why we cannot be ourselves. We are Democrats who are trying to elect Joe Biden because he is the far better choice than Donald Trump, who may or may not have dementia but is definitely an undereducated crook without the skills needed to competently guide our country, and therefore should not be put back into office. Neither the Greeks nor the Trojans had to contend with a MAGA cult, the way we do. They didn't face global warming or covid. Their discourse was no better and no worse than ours, especially considering that The Iliad is a made up story from Greece several thousand years ago and has no relevance to our time except that it was about people.

    If Somerby's morose tone reflects his emotional state, he needs to see a therapist. He is certainly not wasting any time informing himself about politics, so that he can vote intelligently in the upcoming election. It doesn't take a prophet to see how bad a president Trump would be again.


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    1. What would really help Bob? He needs to have an affair with a young woman.

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    2. Somerby is the same age as Trump. Neither is capable of having an affair with any age woman.

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    3. Somerby maintains his focus on the sex-related aspects of Trump's follies, that is where his mind is. The rest of us are focused on Trump's corruption, which is what he was convicted for.

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  5. "our Blue American civilization"

    Civilization, really? Cracka, please. All you've got there is some braindead crackheads and a few bots.

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    1. This is exactly what a barbarian looks like.

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  6. duplicate comment

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  7. If democracy dies, it will be because of blatant Republican lying, as described by Thom Hartmann:

    https://hartmannreport.com/p/the-dark-side-of-politics-the-gops-749

    Much of this involves the media and Somerby could have been discussing it for the past 8 years, but crickets.

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  8. It may be too much of a challenge to individually debunk all of the Republican lies being told during this election. Perhaps all we need to do is focus on this (Character Matters):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOEMX6_A8MM&t=28s

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  9. If Trump is elected and he imprisons leading Democrats including their next Presidential candidate, democracy will be on life support. And vice versa.

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    1. The Supreme Court should rule that presidents are not immune from prosecution. Instead, they are dithering. Do you think Trump would make use of his immunity? You betcha.

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    2. If Trump "imprisons" Dems through due process because they have engaged in illegalities, which is what happened with Trump, democracy will be strengthened.

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    3. "And vice versa."

      Life support will be on democracy?

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  10. "Over here in Blue America, we portray ourselves as civilized, nuanced, intelligent, decent".
    You have put your finger on the central problem. Your blue tribe and its pathetic leaders are none of these. If your starting point is an unsubstantiated exalted opinion of yourself, life is but a misery.

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    1. Red America portrays itself this way.

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    2. Correct, Bob is just repeating Republican talking points, describing Dems from the point of view of Republicans.

      Sure, it is a disservice to Dems, but he is providing Republicans with exactly what they want.

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  11. Somerby doesn't want to call for the death of Blue America so he says "Sacred Troy must die" and then equates Troy with Blue America. Not very subtle.

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  12. Bob Somerby is alive.

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  13. There was no media in Troy, no vote and no democracy. Cassandra was disbelieved and there was no consequence to her or to others -- it isn't as if anything could have prevented the fall of Troy (according to the Iliad).

    That isn't the case for us in Blue and Red America. Lies do harm us and undermine faith in our institutions. That is why the current extent of lying in our democracy is problematic. Robert Reich discusses this in today's substack: The Lies That Undermine America.

    "...The litmus test for being Trump’s vice president – lying that the 2020 election was stolen, that the rioters were patriots, and that Biden and the Democrats are unfairly prosecuting them and Trump — is also becoming the litmus tests for being a Republican lawmaker. Any Republican who doesn’t spout these lies is politically endangered.

    These are not small lies. They are not political hyperbole. They are lies that cut to the core of our entire system of self-government. They undermine belief in our democracy and system of justice.

    It is one thing for Donald Trump – a pathological liar and sociopath – to conjure up these lies. He is nuts. It has been America’s great misfortune for him to emerge at a time when the nation was already distrustful and disdainful of politics.

    But for an entire political party to wittingly repeat these lies amounts to organized treason.

    How can lawmakers who presumably know how dangerous these lies are nonetheless seek to convince the public they’re true? Is their love of power so great that they would sell out our democracy for it? If so, what do they get from unprincipled power?"

    https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-lies-that-undermine-america

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    1. Blue lies are small lies - political hyperbole. Red lies are end of democracy. You can justify anything if you anoint yourself good and decent and the other side stupid or evil

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    2. Indeed, I can recall that Lincoln lead the Union in anointing the Union as good and decent versus the evil slavers. (He noted in his 2nd inaugural that even God saw it the same way.)

      Same with those that brought down the Nazis.

      Failing to recognize and react to the harmful aspects of our society is not something to take pride in; it is a dereliction of duty.

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    3. The Rebels were an early version of Nazis.

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    4. Correct, the Nazis looked to right wing movements in America as something to model. Then they added their own unique "innovations".

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    5. Hamas is a current version of the Nazis. Fortunately, although Hamas is committed to exterminating all Jews, Hamas is less efficient than the Nazis.

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    6. @8:44 PM - so do many white-nationalist groups supporting Trump, yet you give them pass.

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  14. 9:48 has some major MAGA tears.

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  15. Quaker in a BasementJune 17, 2024 at 1:49 PM

    Elevate our frame of reference?

    Our Host likes to quote famous movies. To His bid to "elevate" our frame of reference, I offer the words of Mozart as depicted in Amadeus:

    "Elevated! Elevated! What does that mean, elevated? I am fed to the teeth with all these....elevated things! Old, dead legends? Why must we go on forever writing about gods and legends?"

    After a brief rejoinder from the Emperor's retinue, he continues:

    "Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty they sound as if they sh*t marble!"

    Our Host loves to try to elevate our discussion with references to the oldest tales. To some though, his efforts mean little more than a pile of...marble.

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    1. Mozart, if we were alive today, will identify with the irreverent Red tribe. Salieri and the Emperor's retinue look and talk like constipated, stuck up liberals.

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    2. Keep working on your English.

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    3. Mozart just wanted to Make Austria Great Again.

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    4. The emperor was a liberal.

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  16. What Bob wants to do is change the subject from any actual examination of MAGA and what it has done to the Country.

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  17. Typical liberals have no plan to get Biden elected. They do however work really hard to convince themselves it will be everyone's fault not theirs.

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    1. All typical liberals need to do is vote for Biden. It is that simple.

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