SOCIOPATHY: She was frog-marched into the countryside!

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2025

No one could call her a slouch: Conceptually, physical illness is easy. By way of contrast, so-called mental illness ("mental disorder") is relatively hard.

Also this:

As we noted a few weeks back, there seem to be hundreds of (clinical) "mental disorders" within the current medical playbook. This week, we chose to feature "sociopathy" for a particular reason.

Long ago, and far away, we learned to pity the child. In her best-selling book about Donald J. Trump, Mary Trump—the president's niece—focused on "sociopathy" at one critical point.

Mary Trump is a clinical psychologist. That doesn't mean that her assessment are necessarily accurate.

That said, she's been observing the family in question ever since she herself was a child. As we've often noted, this is what she said at one point in her best-selling book about the sitting president:

MARY TRUMP (pages 12-13): None of the Trump siblings emerged unscathed from my grandfather's sociopathy and my grandmother's illnesses, both physical and psychological, but my uncle Donald and my father, Freddy, suffered more than the rest. In order to get a complete picture of Donald, his psychopathologies, and the meaning of his dysfunctional behavior, we need a thorough family history.

In the last three years, I’ve watched as countless pundits, armchair psychologists and journalists have kept missing the mark, using phrases such as "malignant narcissism" and "narcissistic personality disorder" in an attempt to make sense of Donald’s often bizarre and self-defeating behavior. I have no problem calling Donald a narcissist—he meets all nine criteria as outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)—but the label only gets us so far.

[...]

[Clinical] experiences showed me time and again that diagnosis doesn't exist in a vacuum. Does Donald have other symptoms we aren't aware of? Are there other disorders that might have as much or more explanatory power? Maybe. A case could be made that he also meets the criteria for antisocial personality disorder, which in its most severe forms is generally considered sociopathy but can also refer to chronic criminality, arrogance, and disregard for the rights of others.

The book in question bears this somewhat murky title:

Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man

The title is explained in the book. The book was published in July 2020.

In her detailed, best-selling book, Mary Trump describes her grandfather, Fred Trump, as "a high-functioning sociopath." At substantial length, she describes the challenges which are typically faced—and the price which can routinely be paid—by the children of sociopaths.

Is it true that Fred Trump was a sociopath? We can't tell you that! But Mary Trump says that her uncle, Donald Trump, might also meets the criteria for the clinical diagnosis which relates to that colloquial term. Also this:

At substantial length, she does explain, in many ways, why we might decide to "pity the child." She doesn't make that specific recommendation herself, but the basis for pity is found all through her book.

In which we can pity the child—pity the five different children—who had to grow up, or who failed to grow up, in the home of Fred Trump and his medically disabled wife.

We would suggest that you "pity the child" who grows up as the child of a sociopath. We suggest you recall what the leading authority on that clinical disorder says about such children:

Antisocial personality disorder 

Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is a personality disorder defined by a chronic pattern of behavior that disregards the rights and well-being of others. People with ASPD often exhibit behavior that conflicts with social norms, leading to issues with interpersonal relationships, employment, and legal matters. The condition generally manifests in childhood or early adolescence, with a high rate of associated conduct problems and a tendency for symptoms to peak in late adolescence and early adulthood.

The prognosis for ASPD is complex, with high variability in outcomes. Individuals with severe ASPD symptoms may have difficulty forming stable relationships, maintaining employment, and avoiding criminal behavior...Children raised by parents with ASPD may be at greater risk of delinquency and mental health issues themselves.

[...]

Causes

Personality disorders are generally believed to be caused by a combination and interaction of genetics and environmental influences. People with an antisocial or alcoholic parent are considered to be at higher risk of developing ASPD. 

We've long advised you to pity the child. It's also true that adults afflicted in such ways should have their ability to do harm removed from them where possible.

Was Fred Trump a "sociopath?" How about his son? Is it true that there can be a genetic component to such clinical "disorders?" Can the syndrome in question be inherited?

We can't answer questions like those. Questions like those are not discussed within polite journalistic circles. For better or worse, it's also true that prevailing rules of the game have decreed that such questions have gone unasked in the case of the sitting president, and with respect to some other unusual people around him.

Under prevailing rules of the game, questions like those can't be asked. Fairly obvious possibilities can't be reported or discussed.

This is part of the cultural background within which we the people have managed to drift to our current situation. In the case of Mary Trump, she became a familiar figure on cable news programs after her major best-seller appeared, but she was treated as a standard political pundit. She was almost never asked to discuss the psychological ruminations which occupy the first fifty pages of her high-profile book.

Our public discourse is extremely primitive. Despite the torrents of praise we're inclined to heap on ourselves, we humans aren't "the rational animal" and we never have been.

Within the journalistic tradition, issues of "mental illness" are routinely reported and discussed with respect to a wide array of "street crimes" and associated behaviors. For better or worse, such issues are never reported or discussed with respect to major political figures.

According to the largest study of which we're aware, something like six percent of adult men can be diagnosed with ASPD. But, again for better or worse, we're not allowed to wonder about the way this clinical "disorder" might be affecting the way our national politics works.

All the way back in 2017, one person stepped forward to confront these issues. No one could possibly call her a slouch. The leading authority on this person offers this highly impressive thumbnail:

Bandy X. Lee

Bandy Xenobia Lee is an American psychiatrist whose scholarly work includes the writing of a comprehensive textbook on violence. She is a specialist in public health approaches to violence prevention who consulted with the World Health Organization and initiated reforms at New York's Rikers Island Correctional Facility. She helped draft the United Nations chapter on "Violence Against Children," leads a project group for the World Health Organization's Violence Prevention Alliance, and has contributed to prison reform in the United States and around the world. She taught at Yale School of Medicine and Yale Law School from 2003 through 2020.

[...]

Early life and education

Bandy Lee was born and raised in the Bronx, New York. She is of Korean descent. As a teenager, Lee volunteered in Harlem as a tutor for homeless African-American children. Her grandfather was Geun-Young Lee, a physician who treated patients in need of care after the Korean War, who Lee says inspired her with a belief that practicing medicine also involves social responsibility.

Lee received her M.D. from the Yale University School of Medicine in 1994 and a Master of Divinity (M.Div.) from Yale Divinity School in 1995. Lee completed her medical internship at the Bellevue Hospital Center in New York. During her medical residency at the Massachusetts General Hospital, Lee was designated as the chief resident. She was then a research fellow at Harvard Medical School. Upon completion, she was offered a faculty position at Harvard University but turned it down to return to Yale.

Career

Lee studied the anthropology of violence in East Africa as a fellow of the National Institute of Mental Health and co-authored academic papers on Côte d'Ivoire, Tanzania, and Rwanda. She is a specialist in violence prevention programs in prisons and in the community and worked for several years in maximum security prisons in the United States where she was instrumental in initiating reforms at New York's Rikers Island jail complex. She has consulted with five different U.S. states on prison reform.

Lee was director of research for the Center for the Study of Violence and, with Kaveh Khoshnood, founded Yale University's Violence and Health Study Group. She heads a project group of the Violence Prevention Alliance for the World Health Organization that contributes to increasing the evidence base on interventions that work to prevent interpersonal violence in low- and middle-income countries. She helped draft United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan's chapter on "Violence Against Children" and is the author of the textbook, Violence: An Interdisciplinary Approach to Causes, Consequences, and Cures.

That's what the leading authority says. We can't vouch for the perfect accuracy of every word. 

That said, no one could call this person a slouch. But back in 2017, she tried to create a discussion of certain issues concerning Fred Trump's child back. For doing so, she was eventually frog-marched into the countryside, never to be heard from again.

Will someone "be telling this with a sigh / Somewhere ages and ages hence?" Everything is possible! For today, we offer this as a portrait of the current state of the American discourse. 

Despite the comical volumes of praise we heap on ourselves, we humans have a long way to go. That includes the widely praised academic and journalistic elites who can't find a way to discuss such topics right here in our own self-impressed Blue America.

We advise you to pity the child—to pity the children—who grew up in the home of Fred Trump. (In part, we offer that advice because it would have been the more politically savvy way to go.)

Today, one of those children has surrounded himself with a remarkable array of top aides who also grew up in highly unusual circumstances. (Did your grandmother ever decide to set her sleeping husband on fire?) 

That group has sometimes been described as "a playroom of broken toys." Our major news orgs have gone to heroic lengths to disappear various aspects of their highly unusual childhoods, along with remarkable aspects of their highly disordered adult lives.

Dr. Lee could have been a contender! She might have helped us understand the forces which are brought to bear on the children who grow up in highly unusual homes. 

Instead, she was frog-marched away. Discussions like that aren't allowed!

We leave you today with one last question:

Is a form of "mental disorder" involved in academic and journalistic conduct of that type? How far does a (colloquial) disorder extend within our underfed discourse?

He could be a "sociopath," his own niece flatly said. In many appearances on cable news shows, nobody asked her about that!


106 comments:

  1. On the other hand, some people grow out of puberty.

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  2. Relieved that we're finally hearing from Mary Trump.

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  3. You do not pity someone who is using all of his faculties to harm others, as Donald Trump has been doing all of his life.

    Bandy Lee was not "frog-marched away". Her appointment at Yale was terminated because her clinical license was not renewed in CT. She continued to work in NYC.

    Her book had little impact on Donald Trump's career because calling someone mentally ill is not the way to keep them out of office. It sounds like (and is) professional name-calling with no consequence for the election. It illustrates that the way to keep someone out of office is NOT to use a colloquial term such as sociopath or crazy or even insane, but to discuss the issues relevant to voters. Professional campaign staff know that, but apparently Somerby and Bandy Lee do not.

    JD Vance has serious mental health problems himself, but that didn't stop him from becoming VP. For that matter, a lot of the voters have mental health issues and certainly Musk does, with his ongoing abuse of ketamine. It has been suggested many times that Trump misuses Adderall. Do we elect drug addicts to the presidency? Apparently we do. Somerby himself has never mentioned Trump's drug abuse, or Musk's.

    But when it came to Biden being "old," Somerby was all over it. Stumble over words in a debate and out you go -- talk about being "frog-marched," that is exactly what Somerby advocated and what some Democrats did to Biden and that put Trump back in office. It would be easy to suggest that Somerby has been focused on the wrong things (since 2015). He doesn't seem to care about treason or rape or fraud, but he cares a lot of pitying boys with psychiatric labels. What is wrong with Somerby?

    We have to suffer Trump's abuses of the populace because Somerby didn't want to campaign against Trump and sat around "pitying" him instead. I am not inclined to forgive Somerby for that, much less pity him. He had his chance to help us elect a qualified president and he chose instead to mock Harris for having a nice smile. He deserves what he gets now. The rest of us don't.

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    1. Somerby pretends to do all this handwringing over what exact mental impairment Trump and Musk suffer from, as a way to distract from the fact that Trump and Musk are both corrupt and criminal.

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  4. “ it would have been the more politically savvy way to go.”

    Biden didn’t express pity for Trump in 2020, and yet Biden won the election. This calls Somerby’s statement into question.

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  5. Yes, you definitely are mental, Bob. TDS has destroyed your brain. I don't think you need to keel illustrating it; we get it.

    Or were you, like all the rest of the Democrats, born retarded?

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    1. Why do we have to have these trolls here? Even Kevin Drum moderates his comments. Somerby lets these guys run rampant, saying nothing and filling up comments with garbage. If Somerby cared about anything, he wouldn't let this happen.

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    2. They do represent the MAGA mindset. Musk has been using the word “retarded” a lot lately.

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    3. There is a phenomenon in children called "restraint collapse":

      "Restraint collapse refers to the emotional release children experience when they come home after a full day at school. At school, children often do their best to behave, suppressing their frustrations, fears, and anxieties. Once they return to the comfort of home, they feel safe enough to release those pent-up emotions. This can result in emotional outbursts, including crying, tantrums, or acting out."

      This happens with adults too, when they must exert mental and emotional effort to behave normally outside the house but then can relax and let it all hang out when they leave their jobs.

      Conservatives who are destroying the restraints imposed on them by having to treat others with tolerance and consideration are now showing a kind of release from restraint by being able to use derogatory terms in public (on social media for example), say intolerant things in their press remarks, laught at out-of-bounds jokes on Gutfeld, and engage in the kinds of hate toward target groups that have been forbidden as recently as 2014 (especially due to Obama being in office).

      They know the word "retarded" is not nice, but that is the whole point. Showing that they can do what they want, say what they want, be what they want, no matter how violent, destructive, ugly, bigoted and harmful to civil society. The point is that they don't have to try any more to suppress their worst instincts and behaviors.

      It is childish, but that is the permission Trump gave them, and why they love him. He is validated their bad behavior and who cares whether Putin takes over Ukraine, as long as these guys get to call people bad stuff in online comments?

      Musk does what he wants because he is a billionaire and who is going to stop him? Musk is the role model for a generation of male children (and Cecelia) who think that they can do the same, and that it is manly or clever to behave badly. At the expense of other people and the well-being of our country.

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    4. I am an ethnic minority and have heard slurs all my life, almost exclusively from people joking around. I do it too. It's funny. That's the problem with Democrats. They are run by scolding women who never laugh and who like to control others.

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    5. Yeah, 10:38, why do black people not like it when white people call them the “n” word? I mean. it’s funny right? Those blacks. Such uptight scolds.

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    6. In most men's lives, women were their mothers and their first teachers, then they encountered mostly women in their preschool and elementary school classrooms. Without good male role models at home, such boys associated restraint and "scolding" (which is actually teaching the rules of society in order to help them get ahead) with women and misbehavior with manliness.

      This has been encouraged by Trump and the toxic masculinity embraced by the right wing. So much for family values. So we have rituals like bachelor parties where men rebel against the restraint of having a wife, and boys nights, where men leave their wives and girlfriends at home in order to drink too much, fight and break things. And some men form a persona that says being male means avoiding entrapment by women that will make them into [insert negative word here]. They then taunt other men using such words.

      Associating kindness with gender is a huge mistake for our culture. Tying good behavior with lack of masculinity makes it hard for some men to do the right thing and still feel bursting with testosterone. Men don't tend to listen when women point out that this is not good for our culture, because it is women scolding them again, which they think is the whole problem. So they idealize slobs like Trump and Putin (whose posing naked on a horse was for the boys, not women to consume).

      Somerby dislikes women but he gushes over young girls (who lack power, being children). He is majorly clueless when it comes to what he calls "sexual politics." That makes it hard for him to be a liberal because he really wants to identify with Tucker and Donny and Musk in their antics. So he attacks liberals and says we are all wrong to scold anybody (from the left) and he would never in a million years have voted for Harris, no matter what he claims. He lives to portray the left as bad for spoiling all that Republican fun.

      It is time for Somerby to say that Trump is destroying our country because of the things he is doing, not because his rich daddy showed him favoritism. Bandy Lee is scolding Trump for being a sociopath, Somerby says. But is she really? I agree with the others here who are pointing out that Lee's message is that Trump is unfit to be president.

      When someone does as much wrong as Trump, why would it ever be wrong to scold? Is scolding really what Dems are doing when they seek to REMOVE THE BASTARD FROM OFFICE?

      Why isn't Somerby calling for Trump's impeachment? Why did he oppose it, the last time it happened? How sincere can Somerby be about criticizing Trump if he won't do a damn thing to stop Trump?

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    7. “I am an ethnic minority” I see, you are afraid to specify your ethnicity. So sad.

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    8. I already know that you Democrats are retards. You don't need to keep confirming it every day, retards.

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    9. I am pretty sure an asshole is not an ethnic minority.

      @Anon10:38: I appreciate your thesis. I think that Trump has normalized assholish behavior and a significant percentage of the population -- although, by far not everyone -- has jumped on the opportunity.

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    10. The New York Times just recently printed a list to date of all the illegal actions Trump and his administration have committed since he started the second term from hell. The only remaining institution trying to check him are State AG's suing in district courts. He has already committed multiple impeachable offenses, yet the congress will do nothing. I don't think people realize we are not living in a democracy anymore.

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    11. Another funny comment from Ilya. Must be a record. But how could I, the asshole in question, think this jab was funny? I was mistaken, I am two ethnic minorities. Someone hurry up and scold me and Ilya.

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    12. 10:38,
      What are you babbling about? I laugh at Republican voters every day of the week. If they didn't want us to, they wouldn't pretend they're serious about economics.

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    13. If you aren't laughing when people try to gaslight you into believing there is a Republican voter who isn't a bigot, you're doing life wrong.

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  6. I wish I had even a fraction of the psychological makeup of either Trump or Musk. Courage beyond normal understanding, charisma, grit, optional sleep, relentless motivation, while maintaining a core of compassion that normal people see despite the attempted monsterization by their inferiors.

    The rewards are obvious beyond the wealth and power and women. Beloved and respected by millions, resented by the mentality of failure. The greatest men of our time.

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    1. Sleep is not optional. It may be that a lot of Trump's dysfunction can be explained by his lack of normal sleep. Certainly, his continuous drinking of Diet Cokes may be to keep some semblance of alertness. We all saw him sleep through his trial (where no Cokes were forthcoming) and other public ceremonies (Jimmy Carter's funeral).

      Adderall is an upper:

      "This combination medication is used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - ADHD. It works by changing the amounts of certain natural substances in the brain. Amphetamine/dextroamphetamine belongs to a class of drugs known as stimulants. It can help increase your ability to pay attention, stay focused on an activity, and control behavior problems. It may also help you to organize your tasks and improve listening skills.This drug is also used to treat a certain sleeping disorder (narcolepsy) to help you stay awake during the day. It should not be used to treat tiredness or to hold off sleep in people who do not have a sleep disorder."

      Use of a drug to stay awake after a night of shitposting to Truth Social is drug abuse. His constant napping interferes with normal sleep and is not recommended by sleep specialists. What are the effects of lack of normal sleep?

      "Lack of sleep is a health issue that deserves your attention and your doctor's help. Not getting enough sleep - due to insomnia or a sleep disorder such as obstructive sleep apnea, or simply because you're keeping late hours - can affect your mood, memory and health in far-reaching and surprising ways. Sleep deprivation can also affect your judgement so that you don't notice its effects."

      A president who is so stupid that he doesn't treat this kind of disorder is not qualified to run the country. Who knows how many of his bizarre thoughts and behaviors can be traced back to this one problem? It may be that Trump does not have sociopathy or any other pathetic mental illness, as Somerby claims, but has been chronically sleep deprived and self-medicated using Adderall for years, making him unfit to do anything requiring a brain.

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    2. Damn, boy, I bet you had to type that out with one hand, creep.

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    3. Cogent criticism from a troll.

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    4. Comment at 10:00 am was referring to creep at 9:49 am.

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    5. President Hineybrain and his assistant, Professor von Blunderbutt.

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    6. The courage it takes to rape a 13yo (Trump) and sexually harass employees (Musk) is truly astounding.

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  7. There have been quite a few criticisms that the book written by Vance, Hillbilly Elegy, is not strictly accurate, that it contains a lot of fiction.

    He says his grandmother lit his grandfather on fire, for example. But here is what fact-checkers say about that:

    "Of course, Vance's telling of the story doesn't mean that the event actually happened, and Snopes can't verify whether it did, as his maternal grandparents at the center of this anecdote, James and Bonnie Vance, are both deceased. However, Snopes could find no news reports of members of the vice president's family disputing his version of events — other than a filmed interview (see 1:21) Vance did with the Hoover Institution where he said that a family member told him it was lighter fluid, not gasoline, that his grandmother used to set his grandfather on fire (emphasis ours)."

    Why would anyone be surprised that a man who lies about pets being eaten by Haitians would lie about his own relatives in a largely made up book? We know that Trump lies too and that Musk cannot tell the truth to save his life. Is it obligatory to pity people who lie about their childhoods? I don't think so. I also do not understand why anyone would make liars elected officials. But I am not going to pretend that a single incident from these assholes' pasts actually happened.

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    1. You could practically sense Somerby genuflecting at each reference of Hillbilly Elegy when he spent a month glorifying the ridiculous book.

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    2. anon 11:38 - you say Musk was sexually harassed? that's news. What's your proof? Also, you constantly charge Trump with raping a 13 year old. I understand that there were 2 law suits filed on behalf of this 13 year old, both of which have been dismissed. Is that enough of a basis for you to over and over assert that the charge is factual? even for someone as loathsome as Trump might be, it's shameful for you to continually make that charge with no evidence.

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    3. 2:01: there were 3 lawsuits, the first was dismissed, the other two were withdrawn or dropped by the defendant. The third time, it was reported she was threatened. The last two lawsuits included affidavits corroborating the accusations. Perhaps we’ll never know. Trump knew Epstein well, and Epstein said he was Trump’s closest friend for a long time. Who knows?

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  8. "WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Calling it “a little math error,” the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) revealed on Friday that it had overestimated the number of Elon Musk’s children at 13 billion instead of 13.

    “Okay, so we were off by a few billion kids,” Treyson Parlow, the 16-year-old deputy head of DOGE, said. “You’re gonna make a few mistakes when you’re up all night tripping on ketamine.”

    In another tabulation goof, DOGE admitted that it had miscounted the number of states in the USA at 50,000 rather than 50."

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    1. Respectable level of humor from a lefty. Will wonders never cease. Or maybe proof of the million monkeys typing theory.

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  9. “she was eventually frog-marched into the countryside, never to be heard from again.”

    Here she is in 2022:

    ‘Holding Trump accountable for his criminal behavior, from Lee’s vantage point, could act as an antidote of sorts to the violent sentiments of his supporters. “I have found that once gang leaders are taken into custody, their followers soon stop believing in the delusions that they had all shared,” she says. “And their behavior often returns to normal.” To those who worry that his prosecution could lead to an uptick in violence, Lee counters that “doing nothing would be much more damaging to the country in the long run.”’

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/08/donald-trump-violence-mental-health-dangerous-jan-6-fbi-mar-a-lago-civil-war-bandy-lee-psychiatry-goldwater-rule/

    Somerby seems to agree with her assessment of Trump, but not her recommendations.

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    1. Bandy Lee wasn't marched into the countryside. She is currently the head of the World Mental Health Coalition. Exactly the kind of organization Trump would never fund, but that is urgently needed, if Somerby is correct about Trump's problems.

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    2. Dr Lee is often featured on MeidasTouch which has now overtaken right wing Joe Rogan to be the most popular podcast, as well as the leading political YouTube channel.

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    3. The World Mental Health Coalition doesn't receive federal funding.

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    4. Well, thank goodness, 5:20, because it would be defunded by Trump if it were. Note that 11:32 didn’t claim it was federally funded. But thanks for your input.

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  10. Our discourse is underfed because we don't call each other crazy? Somerby is perhaps underfed, mentally. It seems to have been a long time since he read a new book.

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  11. This is from the mother jones article cited above:

    “The issue that we are raising is not whether Trump is mentally ill,” Gilligan writes in his chapter [in The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump]. “It is whether he is dangerous.”

    Somerby kept calling trump “mentally ill”, so he seems to have missed the whole point of Lee’s book.

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    1. He's dangerous to the right people.

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    2. Don’t know about that, 10:41, but my comment @10:20 was meant as a criticism of Somerby.

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    3. He's dangerous to grifter organizations like Power Forward Communities - the Potemkin coalition whose creation coincided with multi-billion-dollar Inflation Reduction Act and received 2 billion dollars cash money to (checks notes) facilitate the affordable decarbonization of low-income and disadvantaged homes and apartments across the United States.

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  12. Bob, if you’re labeling and expounding on every contrarian as being mentally "off" in some manner or another, it undermines all your “diagnoses”.

    It would be more straightforward if you just said a few of them suck.

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    1. “Contrarian?” Good one.

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    2. Anonymouse 10:26pm, “embodiment of all evil”?

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    3. Somewhere in between?

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    4. Anonymouse 10:28am, “non-binary bad guy”.

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    5. Standard-issue right winger will do.

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    6. So it’s all three of my descriptions.

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    7. I'll help out, Cecilia. Bob is expounding on sociopathy of certain contrarians. To put another way: just because you're a contrarian, doesn't mean that you are not a sociopath.

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    8. Ilya, duh. Quite the contrary.

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    9. Super-duper rejoinder Cecelia! The shorter, the better too.

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    10. I don’t suck. I lick.

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    11. RightisRight, I’m sure you’ve heard that last sentence a lot.

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  13. Mary Trump refers to “Donald’s often bizarre and self-defeating behavior.” Self defeating? This man has had so many huge successes. To list some just within the last few months, there is being elected against all odds, successfully imposing his radical reforms in a month, and making billions for himself on Truth Social.

    Yes Trump does make some unusual decisions and he says a great many unusual things. Yet, most of this “bizarre” behavior has been wildly successful, not self defeating,

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    1. Yes, being elected and making billions for himself were probably among his goals. Glad you could help him to those goals, DiC.

      As far as making America great again, he is on track to fail miserably at that.

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    2. Sure, fail. That's why the Ukraine war is about to end, Gaza hostages are being returned, and Americans will enjoy a DOGE dividend, all in the first month he's back in office.

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    3. We will see. The mass firings and agency shutdowns are very likely to have seriously negative consequences for average citizens very shortly. Long term, the termination of research, the destroying of data, and the loss of expertise will undermine America.

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    4. Putin doesn't care what Trump does to the US as long as he gets to take Ukraine.

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    5. You may be right, @10:47. My wife, a retired medical researcher, is on your side. She deplores research projects stopped in the middle, losing the money and effort already put into the projects.

      However, I disagree. Sunk costs are irrelevant. One should compare future costs against future benefits. And I have not seen much benefit from the enormous amount spent on federally funded research.

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    6. The corruption and mental illness defining these agencies is worse than we thought.

      NSF fired about 10 percent of its staff at the end of Tuesday, removing 168 people who included most of the agency’s probationary employees and all of its experts, a class of contract workers who are specialists in niche scientific fields.

      The agency didn’t have to fire its experts but decided to in the interest of fairness, a top NSF official told staffers in an emotionally charged hybrid meeting Tuesday morning at its Alexandria, Virginia, headquarters.

      “The removal of experts was completely at the agency’s discretion. Because if we’re asked to remove probationers, then we also need to remove at-will employees,” Micah Cheatham, NSF’s chief management officer, said at the tense and tearful hour-long meeting, according to a transcript obtained by POLITICO’s E&E News.

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    7. Why are you hitting yourself?

      NSF voluntarily reduced its staff, just like Ukraine forced Russia to invade it.

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    8. David in Cal; aren't you the same lying sack of shit dickhead who vehemently denied that your orange Jesus hero had any intention of implementing Project 2025? Yes, I believe you are.

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    9. The federal government spent over a trillion dollars on research in the last decade. What did we get from this spending. The only benefit I can think of is mRNA vaccines.

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    10. DiC,

      just playing devil's advocate here, it it possible there were other benefits of which you are not aware? How many fields of research does the federal gvt. fund? How conversant are you with developments in each of these fields? How often does Fox News report the latest results arising from federal research? How much thought do you give to a comment before uploading it?

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    11. Alot of people can be "wildly successful" if they are allowed to break the law with impunity.

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    12. That’s all you can think of, DiC? Did you perhaps “think of” doing some research on this?

      Delete
    13. Ukraine is still going strong, so is inflation and the genocide of Palestinians.

      There will be no “dividends” distributed, other than a plan to give tax cuts to the rich.

      Trump inherited nearly half a billion, and threw it all away on his failed business ventures, having to go bankrupt at least 6 times before being saved by Russians and Saudis.

      Musk is similarly a nepo baby with paper wealth and leveraged to the hilt, that only acquired the skills to be a snake oil salesman, “inventing” things that already exist, except poorer versions that cost more.

      Both Trump and Musk are also notorious sexual predators. They also both owe more money than they own.

      Trump and Musk are deeply unpopular, their poll numbers are in the toilet, and they are also un patriotic and are un American, selling out America for some coin and ego boost.

      To be fair, Trump and Musk are merely amped up versions (juiced by the various drugs they take, and their unusually high level of unresolved childhood trauma) of run of the mill Republicans, the cohort responsible for the largest transfer of wealth in history: $50+ trillion going from the bottom 90% to the top 1% since 1981.

      Those that defend Trump and Musk are un American.

      Also David’s story about his “wife” is completely made up, a sad attempt to get someone, anyone, to pay him some attention.

      Delete
    14. 12:03 whaddya going to do? amirite?

      Delete
    15. Hector — by asking the question I am inviting others here to provide more examples of government sponsored research that has benefited you and me.

      Delete
    16. A question mark after your second sentence would have made that more clear.

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    17. Hector- my bad

      Delete
    18. How about we try something called representative - um - democracy.
      We will pay taxes and vote for persons who debate how to spend the money. Even dickhead retired actuaries living in gated communities get a vote. I prefer that system to some drug addled lunatic running around with a chainsaw making all the decisions in secret.

      Delete
    19. @12:26 You and I disagree about eh definition of "democracy." My definition is that the people we elect run the government. The President (and VP) is the only elected person in the Executive Branch. So s/he should be in charge of all the non-elected people in the Executive Branch.

      Delete
    20. DiC, But “we the people” don’t elect a President to break laws and arrogate to himself powers reserved to congress, which, by the way, is another elected body with the power to impeach and remove the president.

      Delete
    21. Yes, we all have heard your President = King theory, DiC. Unfortunately, we used to have a Constitution which gave the power of the purse to Congress. The PresiKing can use the veto if he has the votes, but if not and the elected representatives of the people, as described in Article 1 of the fucking Constitution, decide to fund scientific research through grants, then fuck your PresiKing if he doesn't agree. Got it, Dickhead? In a few short weeks, with the swipe of a pen, tRumpf has tried to eliminate the other two branches of our democracy.

      Delete
    22. “Which laws did he break” DiC asks for us to do his work.

      “Many Trump Administration Fiscal and Regulatory Actions Are Unlawful”

      https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/many-trump-administration-fiscal-and-regulatory-actions-are-unlawful

      To see more results, open your browser (that’s an app that lets you access the internet, a series of tubes), go to the Google website by typing the url “www.google.com”, hit enter, then type “illegal actions taken by Trump” in the search bar. I know, I know, “website”, “url”, “search bar”, it can get confusing.

      Delete
    23. I love when DiC impersonates Alfred E. Neuman.

      Delete
    24. Trump has taken actions based on his Lawyers' view of the laws and the Constitution. When judges disagreed and imposed injunctions, Trump obeyed all the injunctions. That's appropriate. Some of Trump's actions have already been found to be legal. Others, no doubt, will be found to be verboten. In all cases, Trump will obey the courts.

      People saying Trump broke the law are just disagreeing with Trump's lawyers and predicting that Trump will lose these cases.

      Delete
    25. Note that Biden did the same thing with his student loan forgiveness.

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    26. That is more bullshit, Dickhead. Several judges have already noted that he is not obeying the injunctions.

      Just go fuck yourself. Look in the mirror and practice your sieg heil salute. I will be sure to tell everyone that you are one of the "good" Jews.

      Delete
    27. Biden obeyed the court rulings on his student loans, every one of them. Yes, he went back to the drawing boards and tried smaller and more specifically targeted loan forgiveness, but he never got the universal $10K for everyone that was his first try. I should know as I am paying 3 children's student loans.

      Delete
    28. This is who was just made Director of OMB, Russ Vought: He is author of Project 2025, DiC. Perhaps you may have heard of it?

      These people don't believe they have to obey court rulings if they are contrary to the presiKing's vision.

      In 2020, an investigation by the Government Accountability Office found that OMB, under your leadership, broke the law eight times. That's quite a record. Eight times breaking the law by directing certain federal agencies to continue to operate during the 2018/19 shutdown. GAO also found that under your leadership, OMB violated the law by withholding vital security assistance to Ukraine that Congress explicitly provided, putting our national security at risk.

      In 2021, the Inspector General for the Department of Housing and Urban Development found that again, under your leadership, OMB inappropriately delayed disaster relief funding for Puerto Rico following devastations after Hurricane Maria. People who were hurting, people who were suffering, people who were not knowing where they're going to put a roof over their head, have food in their belly, and you inappropriately delayed disaster funding to those people in need. OMB knowingly delayed getting critical resources to communities following a disaster even after we passed a law specifically requiring the funds to be dispersed on time. As communities across our country continue to face devastating natural disasters, including these recent wildfires in Los Angeles, I find it very concerning that you played a critical role in slowing down needed federal assistance to people who were desperate.

      Delete
    29. If Biden had done even one of the illegal things Trump has done he would have been impeached in a heartbeat by the gop congress. That’s how you know the gop has no principle in this matter other than power.

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    30. And Democratic Senators would have gone right along with the GOP

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    31. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_travel_office_controversy

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    32. "In all cases, Trump will obey the courts."

      Bookmarked.

      Delete
  14. “ Americans will enjoy a DOGE dividend”

    Are we all getting a check from Musk? Oh goody.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Democrats have to pay the price for being in denial about Joe Biden’s lack of fitness for office.

    ReplyDelete
  16. As a Trump supporter and White/Christian Nationalist, I felt inspired by Musk’s Nazi salute.

    We will no longer be shamed.

    Trump/Musk can treat me like shit as much as they want, as long as they make an effort to force people of color to squeal like pigs.

    Trump and Musk were sent by a higher power to deliver us from the evils of women and people of color.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymouse flying monkey 12:10pm, you’re an anonymouse flying monkey. You’ll be lucky if you aren’t turned into a human burping cloth for Musk’s latest addition.

      Delete
    2. People need to get over their phobia of dictators, amirite Cec?

      Delete
    3. Anonymouse 12:55pm, no anonymices don’t have to get over it, you should play into it. You’re an anonymous swarm of no ones. You’ll be made useful.

      Delete
    4. Human burping cloth sent me.

      Delete
    5. Retarded, @12:10.

      Delete
    6. The people who called Obama and Biden tyrants need to adjust their views a tad in light of what Trump is doing. Of course, magats lack of principles dictates that only Democrats should be chastised for overreach, for definitions of overreach including issuing executive orders and such.

      Delete
  17. Cut-and-paste day at the Howler.

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  18. I am retarded, but not a sociopath.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Bannon, at the recent cpac, gave the sieg heil to Trump, affirmed to cheers that Trump won in 2020, and called for Trump to run again in 2028. (It’s all on video).

    We’ll be told it was theatrics, trolling, what have you.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Both my grandmothers burned my grandfathers. My parents were consequently sociopaths. I am retarded, but I earn a good living as a troll.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Quaker in a BasementFebruary 21, 2025 at 3:03 PM

    Trump to governor of Maine: "You better do it bc you're not gonna get any federal funding at all"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a fucking asshole we have for presiKing. This is not going to end pretty.

      Delete
  22. Say what you will for Republican voters, but you can't say they aren't a shit pile of bigots.

    ReplyDelete