HUMAN ASSESSMENTS: A depressing time to peruse the news!

THURSDAY, JUNE 11, 2020

The source of a certain fourth button:
It has been depressing of late to peruse the national news.

Many people are depressed by the videotape they see, and by the incidents they hear described. There's no obvious reason why they shouldn't be.

Around here, we're more depressed by the way such videotape tends to be reported, framed and explained. So too with those other events. (This is a syndrome we expect to start exploring next week.)

For today, we're going to take a quick break from our review of the way the New York Times handled and reacted to Tom Cotton's fascistic June 3 column.

Tomorrow, we'll review the contents of the June 5 Editors' Note which sought to explain why the column shouldn't have been published. We'll also review some of the "fact-checking" which quickly emerged from angry New York Times staffers, and even from some better-known people in the world beyond.

For today, we'll only direct you to a paragraph we came across late yesterday, as we noted here. It was the first paragraph in an essay at Slate. The paragraph reads like this:
SLATE (6/10/20): As protests over racist policing in America continue to play out in the nation’s streets, a concurrent reckoning with race and inequality is taking shape inside the country’s notoriously white media companies, signaled in part by the sudden departures of high-profile executives. The most notable exit so far is James Bennet, whose tenure as the editorial page editor of the New York Times ended after a furor over an op-ed by Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton that called for deploying the military against peaceful protesters.
We're omitting the young writer's name because we don't regard this as the young writer's fault.

We regard this as the way it's played. As anthropologists keep insisting, this is our (tribal) species in action, pretty much all the way down.

Our point here is simple. The writer's description of Cotton's column strikes us as highly inaccurate.

No doubt, the progressive mind will quickly insist that the writer has captured what Tom Cotton meant. Cotton, after all, is the other. And, as human history has always shown, the others are vicious and bad.

We may feel sure that the writer had captured what Cotton meant. But the writer has baldly misstated what Tom Cotton actually said—or at least. that what various major experts have told us.

Rather explicitly, Cotton called for deploying military troops against "rioters" and "bands of looters"—against people who were engaged in the "orgy of violence" which was, in fact, rather widespread when his column was written.

(He didn't mention "arsonists." Quite a bit of that activity also seemed to be going on.)

Cotton explicitly said that these "bands of miscreants" shouldn't be confused with "a majority who seek to protest peacefully." He explicitly said that we shouldn't create a "moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters."

That's what Cotton actually said, but Cotton is very much other. Within our tents, we may tend to feel that we surely know what he plainly meant.

Armed with this impulse, We'll inch away from what he actually said, eventually reaching the formulation which opened an essay in Slate. But this is very much the way our species performs.

Consider an earlier episode. We refer to the crackpot story-telling which created The Hopeful's Fourth Button.

The incident to which we refer happened long ago. It helped produce deaths all over Iraq, but who ever cared about them?

The hopeful in question was Candidate Gore. It was the fall of 1999, and the people we most admire were conducting a war on his wardrobe.

(Our tribal minds will quickly say that this is only done to female candidates. Tribal minds of whatever stripe are quite persistently wrong.)

As the people we admire most conducted their war on this candidate's clothes, the rest of the people we admire most sat around and watched. You see, this war was being conducted by the upper-end mainstream press, and that's where careers are made.

All through November 1999, the war on Gore's wardrobe unfolded. The candidate was attacked for his suits and for his boots. Also, for the height at which he hemmed his pants, the better to showcase his boots.

We was attacked for wearing polo shirts, and for wearing earth tones. Along the way, he was also condemned for wearing three-button suit jackets.

You're right! This sounds like the report of an episode inside a madhouse. In fact, it happened inside the madhouse of upper-end cable news—and no, we don't mean on Fox, which wasn't real big at that time.

It also happened in the pages of the New York Times and the Washington Post. The people we admire most all said nothing about this. Careers are made at and through the Times, and also on so-called "cable news." In this early forever war, the careers of this particular "band of miscreants" very much seemed to come first.

For the record, what was supposed to be wrong with wearing three-button suits? None of this ever made any sense, but it somehow got into some peoples' heads—or at least, it got onto their lips—that this represented the candidate's play for those impressionable, dumb female voters.

In one of his endless meltdowns during those many long years, Chris Matthews pimped this lunacy hard. Brian Williams was still discussing Gore's three buttons as late as February 2000.

(Today, Williams is presenting as a carefully scripted, beautifully manicured "corporate progressive" star.)

What was supposed to be wrong with three-button suits? None of this ever made sense. Three-button suit jackets were quite conventional at the time. As we noted in real time, the Wall Street Journal was running full-size display ads for such costuming, even as these attacks dragged on.

At any rate, bands of rioters took turns denouncing Gore's troubling habillement. Eventually, it had to happen! A fourth button was sewn on his suit!

She appeared on Geraldo's nightly CNBC show, along with a fellow named Franken. (At that time, Geraldo was pre-Fox and liberal.) Believe it or not, this was said:
HUFFINGTON (11/9/99): Frankly, you know, what is fascinating is that the way he's now dressing makes a lot of people feel disconnected from him. And there was this marvelous story in one of the New Hampshire papers saying, “Nobody here—nobody here in Hanover, New Hampshire, wears tan suits with blue shirts.” You know, it's just—and buttons—all four buttons! You know, it's not just—it's just not the way most American males dress.
For a fuller transcript, click here.

For the record, Candidate Gore wore no four-button suits. In the swelling tribal excitement, Arianna had sewn a fourth button on.

She also said that Gore's troubling suits were making "people feel disconnected from him," especially perhaps in New Hampshire.

"It's just not the way most American males dress," she said, echoing Matthews' sliming of Gore as "today's man-woman."

(There was no gender politics then. Today, they all deeply care. Also, they never heard a single word about Lauer, Rose, Halperin or Weinstein. They would have pushed back if they had!)

Matthews kept it up for years, crazily sliming Hillary Clinton along with Candidate Gore. (She ended up losing to Trump.) Until 2008, no one said a word about this. Careers get made on cable TV, and there wasn't much cable back then.

The people we've been trained to admire kept this up forever. None of the people we're trained to admire opened their traps to complain, the way a rookie cop should do in his fourth day on the job, even as his chief seeks escape.

People are dead all over Iraq because they behaved this way. Today, they continue to simper and smile. Today, they're posing, and pleasuring us. They're saying how deeply they care.

According to anthropologists:

When the mob starts to run in the streets, the story gets better and better. A fourth button may get sewn on a suit. Slate may misstate what was said.

Tomorrow: The Editors' Note and beyond

Next week: What's goin' on

76 comments:

  1. "For today, we're going to take a quick break from our review of the way the New York Times handled and reacted to Tom Cotton's fascistic June 3 column."

    It's funny how your hate-mongering cop-killing brown-shirty liberal-nazi cult is projecting, labeling everything outside the cult "fascistic".

    And, dear Bob, enough Saint Gore crap already, please. It's fucking pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I want to share a testimony of how Dr OSAGIE herbal mixture cream saved me from shame and disgrace, my penis was a big problem to me as the size was really so embarrassing ,and i was also having weak erection problem i had so many relationship called off because of my situation,m i have used so many product which i found online but none could offer me the help i searched for Which was very painful and then i saw some few testimonies about this herbal specialist called Dr OSAGIE and decided to email him on so I gave his herbal product a try. i emailed him and he got back to me and we discussed, he gave me some comforting words and encouraged me also ans then gave me his herbal pills and cream for Penis Enlargement Within 1 week of it, i began to feel the enlargement of my penis, " and now it just 2 weeks of using his products my penis is about 9.7 inches longer and am so happy contact Dr OSAGIE via drosagiesolutionhome5 @ gmail. com Via whatapp +2348034778129.

      Delete
    2. It's funny how the penis-enlargement spam always gravitates to your comments.

      Delete
    3. Sincerely i was so crushed Sincerely i was so crushed when my Husband of 8 years left me and moved to Quebec City to be with another woman.The pains was just too much for me to bear that I couldn’t just bear it anymore. So i had to reached out to the Internet for help until i found out that Dr. love0 was the real deal.. I had tried the whole lot I knew, and with your spells, blessings and extraordinary magical powers, you did all the work for me, which you have guaranteed me positive result in 24hours, my Ex Husband came back to me and he was remorseful for the whole lot he has done And now my life is balanced and i am happy again. Dr Love0 you do a great service to people. Friends in case you need the help of Dr Love0 kindly mail him on (doctor0lovespell@gmail. com) or visit his FB page: https://www.facebook.com/Lovespellthatworkfastusa   check his blogs: https://doctorlovespell0.blogspot.com/  or check website:  https://doctor0lovespell.wixsite.com/lovespell    

      Delete
    4. GET BACK YOUR EX FAST, SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE FROM DIVORCE AND AMEND YOUR BROKEN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HELP OF DR GREAT CALL OR WHATSAPP +2348118829899

      Hello everyone i am happy to spread my testimony of a strong spell caster called Dr Great. I'm Kaitlyn Houston and i live in USA, my husband and i had a little fight because of that he wanted to divorce me i was so afraid to lose him because i love him very much so i search online for help and i saw a lot of people's testimonies on how Dr Great help them and came out with positive results like Divorces, Cancers, lotteries, fertilities and others. So i emailed him and told him my problem and he told me what to do and I did it as he instructed, 24 hours later he told me he is done with the spell and my husband will no longer divorce me and when my husband came back from work he told me he won't divorce me anymore he said he didn't know what came over him that he is sorry I was so happy and I thank Dr Great for his help If you need Dr Great help email him at infinitylovespell@gmail.com or infinitylovespell@yahoo.com view his blog http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com my page https://kaitlynhouston19.blogspot.com you can also add him on WhatsApp +2348118829899 and he will put an end to your problem 









      GET BACK YOUR EX FAST, SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE FROM DIVORCE AND AMEND YOUR BROKEN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HELP OF DR GREAT CALL OR WHATSAPP +2348118829899

      Hello everyone i am happy to spread my testimony of a strong spell caster called Dr Great. I'm Kaitlyn Houston and i live in USA, my husband and i had a little fight because of that he wanted to divorce me i was so afraid to lose him because i love him very much so i search online for help and i saw a lot of people's testimonies on how Dr Great help them and came out with positive results like Divorces, Cancers, lotteries, fertilities and others. So i emailed him and told him my problem and he told me what to do and I did it as he instructed, 24 hours later he told me he is done with the spell and my husband will no longer divorce me and when my husband came back from work he told me he won't divorce me anymore he said he didn't know what came over him that he is sorry I was so happy and I thank Dr Great for his help If you need Dr Great help email him at infinitylovespell@gmail.com or infinitylovespell@yahoo.com view his blog http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com my page https://kaitlynhouston19.blogspot.com you can also add him on WhatsApp +2348118829899 and he will put an end to your problem 










      GET BACK YOUR EX FAST, SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE FROM DIVORCE AND AMEND YOUR BROKEN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HELP OF DR GREAT CALL OR WHATSAPP +2348118829899

      Hello everyone i am happy to spread my testimony of a strong spell caster called Dr Great. I'm Kaitlyn Houston and i live in USA, my husband and i had a little fight because of that he wanted to divorce me i was so afraid to lose him because i love him very much so i search online for help and i saw a lot of people's testimonies on how Dr Great help them and came out with positive results like Divorces, Cancers, lotteries, fertilities and others. So i emailed him and told him my problem and he told me what to do and I did it as he instructed, 24 hours later he told me he is done with the spell and my husband will no longer divorce me and when my husband came back from work he told me he won't divorce me anymore he said he didn't know what came over him that he is sorry I was so happy and I thank Dr Great for his help If you need Dr Great help email him at infinitylovespell@gmail.com or infinitylovespell@yahoo.com view his blog http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com my page https://kaitlynhouston19.blogspot.com you can also add him on WhatsApp +2348118829899 and he will put an end to your problem 

      Delete
    5. I was rejected by my husband of 8 years,it hurts so much been neglected all the time, I confronted my husband and he say it’s not working and needs a divorce.. I felt depressed and needed solution cause I love him so much. I went online for solution or counseling, when I stumbled on a testimonial page. People with similar problem as mine. I was lucky a lady left an email for me to contact, I took a bold step cause I was so depressed and feel like dying.. I contacted this great man, Dr Abaka, who prayed for me and assured me of my husband will return to my arms the next day of his spell prayer, behold after that prayer night, my husband came home pleading for my forgiveness, it’s our 1 year together after the prayer of Dr Abaka and my husband has never changed towards loving me.. contact this great man today via email: drabakaspelltemple@gmail.com or you can call/whats app no: +2349063230051.















      Delete
    6. Hello viewers around the Globe, I was despondent because i had a very small penis, about 2.5 inches soft and 4 inches hard not nice enough to satisfy a woman, i have been in so many relationship, but cut off because of my situation, i have used so many product which doctors for me, but none could offer me the help i searched for. i saw some few comments on the INTERNET about this specialist called Dr,OLU and decided to contact him on his email: Drolusolutinthome@gmail.com) so I decided to give his herbal product a try. i emailed him and he got back to me, he gave me some comforting words with his herbal pills for Penis Enlargement, Within 3 week of it, i began to feel the enlargement was surprised when she said that she is satisfied with my sex and i have got a large penis. Am so happy, thanks to Dr OLU I also learn that Dr OLU also help with Breast Enlargement Hips and Bums Enlargement etc.. If you are in any situation with a little Penis, weak ejaculation, small breast_hips_bums do get to Dr OLU now for help on his email (Drolusolutionhome@gmail.com) or add him on whatsapp line +2348140654426 

      Delete
    7. I want to thank Dr Emu a very powerful spell caster who help me to bring my husband back to me, few month ago i have a serious problem with my husband, to the extend that he left the house, and he started dating another woman and he stayed with the woman, i tried all i can to bring him back, but all my effort was useless until the day my friend came to my house and i told her every thing that had happened between me and my husband, then she told me of a powerful spell caster who help her when she was in the same problem I then contact Dr Emu and told him every thing and he told me not to worry my self again that my husband will come back to me after he has cast a spell on him, i thought it was a joke, after he had finish casting the spell, he told me that he had just finish casting the spell, to my greatest surprise within 48 hours, my husband really came back begging me to forgive him, if you need his help you can contact him with via email: Emutemple@gmail.com or add him up on his whatsapp +2347012841542 is willing to help any body that need his help.
      For more details about Dr Emu visit his Website: http://emutemple.website2.me/

      Delete
  2. Massive force isn't effective against this type of threat:

    "Donald Trump is all “antifa antifa antifa,” even when talking about the 75-year-old man assaulted by police in Buffalo, but in an intelligence bulletin from the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the National Counterterrorism Center, antifa is literally a footnote. And what do you know—white supremacists are the main focus of concern around protest-related violence.

    ”Based upon current information, we assess the greatest threat of lethal violence continues to emanate from lone offenders with racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist ideologies and [domestic violent extremists] with personalized ideologies,” the bulletin, obtained by ABC News, warns. "

    ReplyDelete
  3. The Mayor of Los Angeles said that he was going to redirect money from the police budget toward helping in minority communities, so the police reacted by removing protective security details from the houses of officials who had received death threats, saying that such details were too expensive and couldn't be justified given their budget realities.

    This is how the police play the game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's not just police. Lots of criminal enterprises run extortion rackets.

      Delete
    2. But let's be clear, the fact that others may do this doesn't excuse the police.

      Delete
    3. The police are a criminal enterprise.

      Delete
    4. I'm going to order a noodle bowl.

      Delete
  4. "As protests over racist policing in America continue to play out in the nation’s streets, a concurrent reckoning with race and inequality is taking shape inside the country’s notoriously white media companies, signaled in part by the sudden departures of high-profile executives."

    From the Slate article quoted by Somerby.

    This is what change looks like. There was a similar exodus as executives across a variety of industries were removed following MeToo investigations. When our society decided it would no longer tolerate sexual harassment, those men had to go, partly because of their behavior and partly to show that those businesses were taking the issue seriously. It is the same with racial intolerance. If there are people who are demonstrating that they do not intend to treat members of all groups fairly, they too must go, partly because of their actions and partly because companies (in this case publications) wish their customers to know that they take racial justice seriously.

    Weighing whether the specific offenses were sufficiently serious to merit their departure is not the best approach. When someone is known to be racist (or sexist in that other context), the current offense is part of a pattern of behavior well known to everyone who has had contact with that individual. Quibbling over whether the latest offense is worth firing them, evades the point that a pattern of such behavior cannot be tolerated. This isn't about one-off verbal gaffes. If the person at the top shows no understanding of racial issues, they are not appropriate leadership because those who work for him (or her) cannot hope to pursue their careers working for someone who is biased against them due to racial attitudes.

    Demonstrating real change is part of how we get protesters to go home and resume their participation in our society with any enthusiasm. We need them to do that because our economy depends on the work of its minority members, along with those who are white and perhaps happy with the status quo.

    These sorts of visible changes are tokens, but if they change and prosper, perhaps they will encourage other companies to change too.

    Today I read that Walmart has decided to remove its African American beauty products from locked cabinets. I didn't realize they were locked up like that in the first place. These subtle slights are part of everyday life for African American women. Assuming they are all going to steal is an affront, just like the many others, that our society cannot keep engaging in. So, if the editor of Bon Appetit has been doing similarly offensive things, he should go.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "No doubt, the progressive mind will quickly insist that the writer has captured what Tom Cotton meant. Cotton, after all, is the other. And, as human history has always shown, the others are vicious and bad."

    Trump supporters have always insisted that they take him seriously but not literally. Now progressives are being chided because they take Cotton seriously, if not literally? Sauce for the goose is apparently not sauce for the gander in Somerby's kitchen.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Progressives should adopt the mindset of fascists, racists, and xenophobes? Why? Because sauce?

      Delete
    2. No, Somerby should be consistent in his criticism, not single out liberals for something that is done by many people, including Somerby's favored "Others."

      Delete
    3. Sorry, I stand corrected. I got my geese and ganders mixed up.

      You want TDH to go after Faux News too. But their craven mendacity is just a given.

      Delete
    4. There is no point in TDH going after media biased towards Republicans, TDH has no influence. Same goes for TDH's liberal-scolding, his arguments are typically so weak they can not even serve for developing counterpoints to Republican nonsense talking points.

      Delete
    5. To be fair, TDH's scolding isn't intended to serve "for developing counterpoints" to Republican nonsense. They're instructions for liberals to get their act together.

      Delete
    6. Wrong, deadrat. They are anthropology, an expression of Somerby’s contempt for liberals. There’s not a lick of constructive criticism in any of it.

      Delete
    7. How about don't blame Tom Cotton for a headline you wrote?

      Delete
  6. "It helped produce deaths all over Iraq, but who ever cared about them?"

    If anyone cared about the needless deaths in Iraq, it was the people on the left.

    Somerby repeats this casual slander against liberals at least once a week, if not more frequently. I am tired of being told that I didn't care about the Iraq War, when that is grossly untrue.

    I'm also sick of hearing that the press murdered Al Gore's career when it was the mistakes of Gore himself that lost him the election.

    He was so bent on distancing himself from Bill Clinton's sexual behavior that he selected Joe Lieberman as his running mate (because Lieberman was an outspoken critic of Clinton). That made him appear to be not only a prude but a conservative Democrat unpalatable to many of us politically. The press didn't need to disparage Gore when he was doing his best to diminish whatever momentum he had going into the election. Those are the facts.

    Somerby seems to be mad that liberals didn't put his friend into office. We did our best. It was Gore's choice not to demand a recount in Florida. He made a lot of other choices too. Unlike Hillary (who Somerby is continually knocking), Gore lost the election through his own actions. There was no Russian interference or James Comey to steal it from him. Somerby likes to talk about the press, but he should look at his BFF's own contributions to his defeat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am tired of being told that I didn't care about the Iraq War, when that is grossly untrue.

      Would that you get as upset about being told you can’t read for comprehension.

      How self-centered do you have to be to think that this blog entry is about you? Were you part of the “upper-end mainstream press” during the 2000 election?

      Gore lost for many reasons — Nader’s ego (which is about the size of yours), bad ballot design in Palm Beach County, electoral interference by the Supreme Court, etc. In an election as close as Florida’s in 2020, any adverse factor could be the culprit¹. TDH’s point is that if we’d had an honest, functioning press corps, we wouldn’t have had to worry about the other things.

      1. Note that Gore not demanding a recount is not one of these. Gore took every legal step he could to get the votes recounted.

      Is there any bottom to your ignorance? Just wondering.

      Delete
    2. Somerby is addressing all of us when he says liberals don't care about this or that. His claims are offensive. His hectoring tone is aimed at the reader and I am a reader. Of course he is talking to me (and I am a liberal) and other liberals. Only YOUR complaints are aimed at me personally, even when you talk to someone else and call them Corby or professor or something else meant to offend a specific person. You are the one with a problem here and it doesn't seem to go away when I refrain from commenting or use a different nym or ignore your harassment. You can't even stick to the topic at hand but gratuitously insert irrelevant digs. This is no doubt tiresome for everyone else here to read, as it is to me.

      Gore himself stated that he chose not to pursue a lawsuit because he didn't want to disrupt the nation by contesting the election. The Supreme Court stopped the recount in FL, but that wasn't the end of his legal rememdies. He gave up, just as he conceded early on election night, then changed his mind. He didn't have the guts to fight for his victory.

      There is no rule that says you must respond to anything I write here. You do it out of malice. I don't know whether your malice is aimed at professors (like Somerby's) or at women (I am female) or at psychologists (I am one of those), but I know it is not anything personal because you don't know me. Nor are you right in your criticisms -- often you are wrong. Sometimes you are agreeing with me without admitting it. Sometimes you say something irrelevant to what I said. Always you are ugly and gratuitously abusive. Why don't you try behaving like a civil human being for a change?

      Delete
    3. Somerby is addressing all of us when he says liberals don't care about this or that.

      Yes, he is, but that’s not whom he is addressing here.

      His claims are offensive. His hectoring tone is aimed at the reader and I am a reader. Of course he is talking to me (and I am a liberal) and other liberals.

      Your offense is yours to take, even if I don’t understand why. I’m not offended, and I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life. I take it that TDH means that based on results, liberals don’t care. If we really acted collectively on what we thought, Maureen Dowd wouldn’t have a job because the NYT wouldn’t offend its readership by publishing her. But that’s just me. YMMV.

      Only YOUR complaints are aimed at me personally, even when you talk to someone else and call them Corby or professor or something else meant to offend a specific person.

      My complaints are aimed at you specifically. I don’t know you or much of anything about you except what you write. My comments can’t be personal.

      You are the one with a problem here

      I thought you didn’t like diagnoses at a remove.

      and it doesn't seem to go away when I refrain from commenting or use a different nym or ignore your harassment.

      Pretty much proves that my comments aren’t personal, eh? I’m criticizing what you write. And stop calling criticism harassment. It belittles the experience of people who can’t escape real abuse.

      You can't even stick to the topic at hand but gratuitously insert irrelevant digs. This is no doubt tiresome for everyone else here to read, as it is to me.

      My digs are all relevant. What are you referring to?

      Gore himself stated that he chose not to pursue a lawsuit because he didn't want to disrupt the nation by contesting the election. The Supreme Court stopped the recount in FL, but that wasn't the end of his legal rememdies. He gave up, just as he conceded early on election night, then changed his mind. He didn't have the guts to fight for his victory.

      Gore sued to get recounts in several disputed counties. This issue went to the Florida Supreme Court, which ordered hand recounts in four counties — Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, and Volusia. Bush went to federal court to get the counts stopped and he ended up winning in the Supreme Court in Bush v Gore. That ended it, as Gore had nowhere else to go for judicial relief. Get your facts straight.

      There is no rule that says you must respond to anything I write here.

      And there’s no rule I can’t respond to anything you write, just as you may respond to anything I write. What’s your point?

      You do it out of malice.

      I do it as a public service, just the way I respond to David in Cal, our Village Idiot.

      I don't know whether your malice is aimed at professors (like Somerby’s)

      I’ve not nothing against professors, and no way to know for sure that you’re a professor.

      or at women (I am female)

      Or women. I have no way to know your sex.

      or at psychologists (I am one of those)

      Well, OK. I do think that profession is mostly composed of hucksters. But again, anyone can play a psychologist in cyberspace, so how do I know you are one? I don’t.

      , but I know it is not anything personal because you don't know me.

      Absolutely true, so why do insist above that my complaints are “aimed at” you “personally”?

      Nor are you right in your criticisms -- often you are wrong.

      Partially true that. So why not stick to demonstrating that I’m wrong instead of claiming victimhood?

      Sometimes you are agreeing with me without admitting it.

      A couple of times I’ve actually admitted it.

      (con't->)

      Delete
    4. (<- con't)

      Sometimes you say something irrelevant to what I said. Always you are ugly and gratuitously abusive.

      Keep this in perspective, please. Trump’s tweets about Martin Gugino are ugly and abusive. All I’ve done is point out your failures in making coherent arguments.

      Why don't you try behaving like a civil human being for a change?

      Because I’m not a civil human being. The time for political civility is past. David in Cal is a moral and intellectual idiot. Mao is a mendacious troll. Trump is a malignant narcissist with a fascist mindset.

      And you often can’t read for comprehension or make a coherent argument.

      I’m through giving the former the benefit of the doubt, and I’m applying the same standard to people nominally on my side.

      If you don’t want to be called ridiculous, stop writing ridiculous things.

      Delete
    5. My reading comprehension is fine. You operate on a different wavelength and you won't allow others to differ from you without calling them wrong. There is a lot of diversity in how people think. Some of us find that interesting instead of emotionally threatening.

      You are not offering criticism because you make nasty remarks about me even when I post nothing at all. Lately, when I've commented less often, you've taken to calling mh Corby, as if that isn't a dig at me. You can pretend to be a disinterested person concerned with truth, but that isn't what you are doing and not how you appear to others. You are coming across as a malignant narcissist yourself.

      I was taught as a child not to use intellect as a weapon, but you apparently didn't receive the same instruction. Snark, sarcasm, name-calling, word-games and semantic quibbling, are not indicators of intelligence. Neither is factual accuracy or demands for sources. These are internet games and it is a waste of time to play them. If you don't have anything to say on the topics discussed here, stop cluttering the comments with your "criticisms" (veiled attacks) and say nothing.

      Delete
    6. As if anybody besides his mother takes him seriously. Don't worry about deadrat - he is a sad lost soul, your comments are appreciated.

      Delete
    7. My reading comprehension is fine. You operate on a different wavelength and you won't allow others to differ from you without calling them wrong. There is a lot of diversity in how people think. Some of us find that interesting instead of emotionally threatening.

      If your reading comprehension is fine, then I don’t see how you can consistently claim that TDH writes things that he doesn’t.

      I operate on the “wavelength” of reading what’s there. You apparently don’t.

      In my opinion, being nonsensical is not an admirable part of diversity of thought

      You are not offering criticism because you make nasty remarks about me even when I post nothing at all. Lately, when I've commented less often, you've taken to calling mh Corby, as if that isn't a dig at me.

      No, it’s definitely a dig at you. You’re the canonical example of cluelessness.

      You can pretend to be a disinterested person concerned with truth, but that isn't what you are doing and not how you appear to others.

      Well, let me dispel that notion right now. I am most definitely an interested party in these discussions. I’m not neutral, and I’m not pretending to be.

      You are coming across as a malignant narcissist yourself.

      I thought you didn’t approve of diagnosis from afar, but OK, let’s go through your list of symptoms, soi disant professor of psychology, and tell me how you could possibly have any evidence for them.

      I was taught as a child not to use intellect as a weapon,

      OK, but whatever you were taught as a child, you’re using it wrong.

      but you apparently didn't receive the same instruction.

      I was taught to call a fool fool. We all have to live with our childhoods.

      Snark, sarcasm, name-calling, word-games and semantic quibbling, are not indicators of intelligence.

      No, but they’re fun and effective ways to highlight bad arguments.

      Neither is factual accuracy or demands for sources. These are internet games and it is a waste of time to play them.

      Well, there’s your problem. Perhaps you should hold accuracy and proper sourcing in a higher regard.

      If you don't have anything to say on the topics discussed here, stop cluttering the comments with your "criticisms" (veiled attacks) and say nothing.

      But I do. Just the other day, I outlined the Minnesota law on homicide. Remember? That’s the one where I made an error in my discussion and corrected myself. Your misrepresentations are part of the topic set, so why again should I not discuss those?

      And none of my criticisms (no need for scare quotes) is an attack and none is veiled. If any of my criticisms is unwarranted, you could rebut it instead of whining, making long-distance diagnoses of me, and speculating about my childhood.

      Delete
    8. My mother's dead, Anonymous @7:55P. Got any substantive criticism of what I write?

      I didn't think so.

      Delete
  7. Army troops were moved to the DC area but not used in any law enforcement efforts. However:

    "In Washington, the D.C. National Guard and other federal authorities, including U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Agency and other officers, joined local police in responding to protests in downtown Washington and near the White House in recent days.

    CBP officers and agents stationed at the northern border ports of entry and airports have also joined local authorities in New York in addressing demonstrations, Mike Niezgoda, public affairs officer for U.S. Customs and Border Protection said.

    The Drug Enforcement Agency was empowered by the U.S. Department of Justice Sunday to make arrests for non-drug related federal crimes and "conduct covert surveillance" as the agency assists with the federal response to the protests, Buzzfeed News reported. DEA spokespeople declined to say whether the agency would also be conducting this work in other states."

    This conglomeration of officers from various agencies, assembled by Barr, did arrest people and assist local police. It is unclear whether these folks should be called "military." They did exceed their delimited authority by arresting people who were not within their investigatory purview.

    So, Cotton's issue is a red herring and the larger issue is whether the President can mobilize his own federal police force to address citizen unrest (and curtail 1st Amendment rights) as ordered by Trump (via Barr) to exert force against demonstrations. It seems to me that this is an abuse of power and that those officers had no business doing what they did, acting as police alongside legitimate DC police, to enact the President's wishes. This is not a threat or show of force, it is something that actually happened, as reported by:

    https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-military-police-battalion-sent-to-D-C-15313424.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course it's an abuse of power, but that would have to be decided by the courts. Are you saying there's a law that prohibits the President from deploying federal forces to police federal territory? If so, could you quote the relevant section of the United States Code?

      Delete
    2. If it would have to be decided by the courts, then it isn’t automatically an abuse of power as you just asserted.

      Delete
    3. I'm saying that there is a law that prohibits the President from forming his own personal police force and deploying it to attack citizens asserting their first ammendment rights. Annotation 16, Article II:

      https://constitution.findlaw.com/article2/annotation16.html

      Delete
    4. I was responding to deadrat, by the way. His “logic” seemed amiss.

      Delete
    5. Oh, don't go all literal minded on me, mh. When I say it's an abuse of power, that's just my opinion.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous @3:46P,

      The question is whether the President may legally deploy federal forces to restore order in federal territory. You say there is a law that prohibits him from doing that. Findlaw.com’s annotation to the Constitution won’t do it.

      The President didn’t “form his own police force.” He used federal officers from existing federal departments. Are you claiming that these officers cannot be deputized to enforce order in DC? If so, quote the law that prohibits this.

      Note that I’m not saying such a law doesn’t exist. I’m asking for a cite.

      Note that I’m not saying Trump’s actions aren’t disgraceful and made under pretext. I’m asking whether his actions under a claim to restore order in federal territory are illegal per se. Absent an invitation from state authorities, I think that would be true for deployment to a state under the conditions we’re seeing, but even there things aren’t clear cut.

      If your argument is that the President may not enforce the law in an illegal manner, then that’s both different and tautological.

      Delete
    7. The president deployed cars that say "US Police" on the door, and nothing else. He re-tasked agents of various agencies to use to police protesters. And yes, the constitution prohibits it, if you actually read the Findlaw annotation, which describes court cases and actions of various other presidents that limit the president's authority.

      I am not an attorney and I have no intention of playing your citation game. This is a different argument than the one about using the army, which you seem to be discussing. My argument is that the president may not assemble his own private police force to be used against citizens in the US. A private police force is not the army. The material I cited discusses the difference between being responsible for enforcing law and assembling such a private police force to do it himself.

      Delete
    8. It’s no wonder you don’t want to play the “citation game,” as your own cite doesn’t support your case. It says,

      ''Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State or Territory by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

      In DC, all laws are United States laws because DC is federal territory. I suppose you can quibble about what “armed forces” means.

      Likely the President cannot command a private police force, but it’s very likely that everyone on duty during Trump’s photo op was on the federal payroll, reporting to various executive branch agencies like ICE and the Bureau of Prisons, all of which report eventually to the President. Nowhere does the Constitution prohibit this, and you haven’t cited a law that limits the President’s authority on federal property in a situation that he deems an emergency.

      If you’ve got evidence that mercenaries were involved, present it. Otherwise deal with what the law actually permits instead of your daydreams.

      Delete
    9. Trump can do whatever he wants. Who is going to stop him?
      The Senate? The Supreme Court?

      The Constitution and laws are only as strong as those who protect/ enforce them.

      Trump can shoot a man on 5th Avenue and not be held accountable for it.

      Delete
    10. This is a separate issue. Of course, you're right that the system works only if the people in charge work within the system.

      A week ago, I'd have said there was a good chance Trump would have gotten away with sending the army into Seattle. Today I'd say there's little chance he could do that.

      But the question here is what legal authority does the President have in Washington, DC. And the answer is considerable.

      Delete
  8. Huffington said: "You know, it's just—and buttons—all four buttons! You know, it's not just—it's just not the way most American males dress."

    In fairness, Huffington has never worn a male suit. Most women don't spend their time counting the number of buttons on a man's suit. Why should she know how many buttons there are, and so what if she got it wrong? Her point was that others were criticizing his appearance.

    Somerby never forgets this. He thinks it was somehow important to the election, when most of the people I knew disliked Gore because of Tipper's campaign to censor rock and roll lyrics. He typified a kind of stodgy prudishness that was out of step with younger Californians who cared about a lot of things unrelated to style of dress or blowjobs. If Gore had emphasized his climate change concerns, he would have won us over, but he said very little about that. To our ears, he sounded nearly identical to George Bush in his policies and platform. I voted Democrat but I wasn't concerned about his loss -- largely because I didn't realize how much Bush was lying about his intentions. And then 9/11 happened and the country went to hell. I didn't understand Gore's worth until he made his film. So, it was his fault that he didn't campaign on his strengths, not Ariana Huffington's (or Naomi Wolf's) or even Chris Matthews' fault. A cable station is allowed to hire Republicans posing as Democrats. In fact, Somerby would fit in well with such people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ariana’s point was not that others were criticizing Gore’s appearance. Fercryanoutloud, you actually quoted her — she, herself criticized Gore for not dressing like “most American males.” And if we’re to believe you and she didn’t know anything about men’s suits, then why are you giving her a pass for opining on a subject she knows nothing about?

      Now it’s a fair criticism that TDH’s obsession, the idiotic concerns of the press corps, might not have been the dispositive factor that he thinks it is, but dear god! you and your cohort thought Gore and Bush were identical? You couldn’t tell that Bush was lying every time he opened his mouth?

      You really think that Gore “would have won … over” a bunch of numpties like you? On what basis do you come to that conclusion?

      Delete
    2. In context, Huffington was talking about what others were saying about Gore. It sounds like she was herself criticizing him because of taking her comment out of context. She was reporting what others said, not opining. And she introduced the error about 4 not 3 buttons because women don't count the buttons on men's suits. That idea that women care about this is ridiculous.

      We were all younger then. I am reporting what I thought at the time. You have no basis for telling me I didn't think what I thought or for calling me a "numptie" given the closeness of the election, which reflected that the nation was evenly split as well.

      As I said, if Gore had expressed his views on climate, he would have won over Californians because we care about the environment. I stated that earlier -- but you are the one who keeps claiming that others cannot read.

      Delete
    3. Here’s the context, from Ariana’s mouth:

      When you are talking about a consultant that you bring on to give opinions on how to dress and whether you're an alpha male and how do you become a beta male….

      Nothing about what other people are opining. She claims that Gore hired a consultant to become an alpha male but then became a beta male. And if women don’t count buttons on men’s suits, why is she even bringing this up?

      Of course I’m not telling you what you thought. You’re the one and only expert on that topic. I’m asking on what basis you thought that people apparently as dumb as you but who didn’t vote for Gore could have been won over by him. And, Sparky, pointing out that there were lots of other people as dumb as you isn’t much of an excuse.

      Yeah, we were all younger then, including me. I didn’t have any trouble figuring out the difference between Bush and Gore, so you know it doesn’t take a genius.

      And Gore did win over Californians, whatever you and your crowd thought about the environment. He carried that state, remember?

      Delete
    4. How could Gore have carried California when Somerby insists that those 4-button suit criticisms cost him the election? And if Gore could carry California why couldn't he have carried other key states despite those suits too? Maybe he didn't speak to their interests or push the right buttons or didn't know how to appeal to people there. But if issues carried more weight that suit buttons in CA I believe he could have overcome that elsewhere too, with the right campaigning. That makes Somerby's assertion fatuous (to use his favorite term).

      Note that Hillary strongly carried CA in 2016. That doesn't buy her anything with Somerby who insists that she was a terrible candidate. When it happens to Gore, Somerby is full of excuses though. Those suit buttons!!! In my opinion, Gore lost because he refused to run on Clinton's accomplishments, and because of Lieberman (who seems to be disliked by most liberals, including me). Nader didn't help but should have been overcome. My friends saw Nader as a one-issue guy at that time, who had little appeal.

      Here is the context:

      " And there was this marvelous story in one of the New Hampshire papers saying, “Nobody here—nobody here in Hanover, New Hampshire, wears tan suits with blue shirts.” You know, it's just—and buttons—all four buttons! You know, it's not just—it's just not the way most American males dress."

      She is clearly talking about someone else's story.

      Delete
    5. How could Gore have carried California when Somerby insists that those 4-button suit criticisms cost him the election?

      Because the election didn’t hinge on California’s electoral votes?

      My friends saw Nader as a one-issue guy at that time, who had little appeal.

      What your friends saw is of little relevance to the Florida election decided by several hundred votes. Unless, of course, the world revolves around you and your buddies.

      She is clearly talking about someone else's story.

      She’s clearly using this “marvelous story” to back up her claim about Gore. You think this was some academic discussion of what other people are saying?

      That RIF program was all for nought apparently.

      Delete
    6. Deadrat, because of the temporal order of her sentences, she is using the 4-buttons to back up what was suggested by her quoted New Hampshire paper about Gore's clothing, not vice versa.

      Delete
  9. “We'll inch away from what he actually said, eventually reaching the formulation which opened an essay in Slate.”

    So far, to “prove” his thesis, Somerby has cited only: Kathleen Parker’s correct description of Cotton’s op-ed where Parker used a word Somerby found objectionable, and now an “unnamed” writer at Slate (whom he named yesterday) as examples of how “we” will inch away from what Cotton said.

    That is malarkey. In perusing the reaction to Cotton’s column in liberal publications, not a single one misstates what Cotton said. They do, on the other hand, offer cogent objections to his essay. Which of course will be ignored by Somerby.

    So, Somerby is reduced to splitting hairs with an op-ed by a conservative and triumphally citing an unconvincing example from a Slate article that is mostly about Bon App├ętit magazine.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "Trump had his lawyers send CNN a cease and desist letter demanding an apology for a poll showing him losing to Joe Biden."

    ReplyDelete
  11. No, Gore did not lose the election because of what he did. The media, constantly pushing the narrative that he claimed to have invented the internet and other false memes about him, helped send Bush to the White House.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If cable news can swing an election just by talking about four-button suits, imagine how powerful images like these will be in the next election:

      https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/george-floyd-public-spreadsheet-police-violence-videos.html?fbclid=IwAR141siEZiFI_VKWBSmgNUt9JRfEnySyQZOok4xnQmxIaSWQF8rXxZKGvjM

      Biden has an amazing new ad out. Trump is combatting this by holding his rally in Tulsa, OK (scene of the massacre depicted in HBO's recent Watchmen series). Race is definitely an issue in this election. Stats show that more people are supportive of these protests and of racial justice than are against it, so Trump is doomed. It is about time we dealt with our national tragedy out in the open, like this.

      Delete
  12. Somerby and deadrat are perfect examples of why liberals lose elections.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, that's the ticket. Liberals lose elections because there's someone who writes a blog nobody reads and someone who uses the nym deadrat to post in the comment section of that blog.

      I'm thinking vote suppression might be only one of more important issues. But then, I can think straight.

      Delete
    2. Deadrat, @3:49 is talking about the tendency of Democrats to eat their own young, the circular firing squad, the purity brigade. Both you and Somerby direct your malice toward liberals, not the conservative noise machine, much less Trump.

      Delete
    3. deadrat is correct.
      Somerby's "Right-wing Gripe of the Day" blog has no effect on elections.

      Delete
    4. I don’t direct any kind of malice at liberals. And remember that I’m the guy who says that Republicans merely walk amongst us as human. Republicans like our Cecelia, if you’d like an example from this blog’s commentariat.

      I don’t agree with everything TDH writes, but I object to the knee-jerk, tribal, and dunderheaded criticism of him that I find here.

      Criticism like yours, for instance.

      Delete
    5. I merely walk among you as bomb diggity!

      Delete
    6. How do you know Somerby isn’t a Republican, deadrat?

      Delete
    7. " ...I object [!] ...."

      Overruled!

      Delete
    8. Cecilia's attempt to bring back the 90s.

      Delete
    9. How do you know Somerby isn’t a Republican….?

      Let’s see. TDH has called some of Tucker Carlson’s work the dumbest of all time, and just last month he said that a substantial chunk of Faux News is crazy. TDH has urged journalists to discuss the possibility that Trump is insane.

      This doesn’t sound like Republicans I’m familiar with, but it doesn’t matter what TDH “really” is. He’s either right or wrong in what he writes, and that’s independent of party label. Which is to say that if he’s wrong, it’s not because he’s a Republilcan, but because he’s got his facts wrong or his logic askew or both.

      Delete
    10. Sure. But the “label” does seem to matter. If he were a Republican, he would merely be walking amongst us as human, according to you.

      Delete
    11. I find it useful to distinguish between the label and the thing. YMMV.

      If TDH were a Republican, he would have that label but only because he espoused those execrable Republican points of view. Which seems unlikely given the opinions he does express.

      But even were TDH a Republican, merely walking amongst as human like our Cecelia, that wouldn’t mean everything he says is wrong. The sky doesn’t stop being blue because a Republican says it’s blue. The Republican platform is shit because it’s full of bad ideas, not because it’s the Republican platform.

      The correlation is strong, and it’s tempting to take the tribal shortcut, but that way lies, … well, Republicans.

      Delete
  13. This is from Somerby’s blog post about Huffington:

    “Now Arianna brings her weak-minded foolishness to the liberal web—and we liberals lap it up. It’s why we have a tattoo on our foreheads. Can you read what it says there? Born Losers!

    For those who think Somerby was only criticizing “elites”:
    You see that Huffington’s foolishness wasn’t the only thing Somerby was criticizing. He said “we liberals” lap it up, and that “we liberals” are “born losers”.

    Somerby said this in 2005.

    Three years later, Obama won the first of his two terms as president.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Huffington is not a liberal, except for business purposes. I consider her a conservative and opportunist. I'm not sure that liberals lapped up the Huffington Post, which does have a lot of click bait and nonsense, but is not really much of a liberal publication, especially not in the same sense as TPM or Daily Kos, for example.

      Here is what Wikipedia says about Huffington:

      "Huffington, the former wife of Republican congressman Michael Huffington [who came out as gay], co-founded The Huffington Post, which is now owned by Verizon Media.[5][6] She was a popular conservative commentator in the mid-1990s, after which, in the late-1990s, she offered liberal points of view in public, while remaining involved in business endeavors.[7] In 2003, she ran as an independent candidate for governor in the California recall election and lost.[8]"

      About the recall: "It resulted in voters replacing incumbent Democratic Governor Gray Davis with Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger. The recall effort spanned the latter half of 2003. Seven of the nine previous governors, including Davis, had faced unsuccessful recall attempts."

      So, I don't consider Somerby's remarks about Huffington to be particularly accurate, especially with respect to liberals or Huffington's politics. Her publication may have leaned toward weak-minded foolishness, but she knew how to launch a successful business endeavor online. No one in California considered her liberal.

      Delete
  14. GET BACK YOUR EX FAST, SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE FROM DIVORCE AND AMEND YOUR BROKEN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HELP OF DR GREAT CALL OR WHATSAPP +2348118829899

    Hello everyone i am happy to spread my testimony of a strong spell caster called Dr Great. I'm Kaitlyn Houston and i live in USA, my husband and i had a little fight because of that he wanted to divorce me i was so afraid to lose him because i love him very much so i search online for help and i saw a lot of people's testimonies on how Dr Great help them and came out with positive results like Divorces, Cancers, lotteries, fertilities and others. So i emailed him and told him my problem and he told me what to do and I did it as he instructed, 24 hours later he told me he is done with the spell and my husband will no longer divorce me and when my husband came back from work he told me he won't divorce me anymore he said he didn't know what came over him that he is sorry I was so happy and I thank Dr Great for his help If you need Dr Great help email him at infinitylovespell@gmail.com or infinitylovespell@yahoo.com view his blog http://infinitylovespell1.blogspot.com my page https://kaitlynhouston19.blogspot.com you can also add him on WhatsApp +2348118829899 and he will put an end to your problem 

    ReplyDelete
  15. Packers and Movers Gurgaon Provide Reliable, Safe and Certified Service Provider list, Get Free ***Best Price Quotaition and Compare Charges. ???Hassle free Household Shifting Services, High Quality packing Material, Office Relocation, Car Transportaion, ###Local and Domestic Shifting Service @
    Packers And Movers Gurgaon

    ReplyDelete
  16. Get Shifting/Relocation Quotation from ###Packers and Movers Delhi. Packers and Movers Delhi 100% Affordable and Reliable ***Household Shifting Services. Compare Transportation Charges and Save Time, Verified and Trusted Packers and Movers in Delhi, Cheap and Safe Local, Domestic House Shifting @ Packers And Movers Delhi

    ReplyDelete
  17. I want to use this great opportunity to thank Dr love for helping me to get my girlfriend back after 7 months of breakup. My girlfriend breakup with me because he see another boy at his working place and told me he is no longer interested in me and live me in pain and heart break. I seek for help on the internet and i saw so many good talk about this great spell caster Dr love and I contacted him also and explain my problems to him and he cast a love spell for me which i use to get back my girlfriend within the period of 48 hours and i am so grateful to him for the good work he did for me,that is why i also want to let everyone who is in need of help out there to also seek help from him so he can help.His email;(drloveteple@gmail.com ) or whatsapp: +2347010538590

    ReplyDelete
  18. Best Packers and Movers in Mumbai aim to offer dependable and reasonable Packing and moving to all zone of Mumbai and out of the Mumbai, thusly safeguard a broad system structure. In the event that you need to move starting with one place then onto the next from Mumbai. That is the reason Best Packers and Movers Mumbai, is here, Best Packers and Movers Mumbai have specialists who can make it substantially more settled and simple your necessities. Simply top off the question shape and send it to us or call Best Packers and Movers in Mumbai, at any snapshot of time, soon you will get a moment quote from our concerned individual.

    Packers and Movers in Navi Mumbai | Packers and Movers Thane | Packers and Movers in Nerul

    ReplyDelete
  19. I want to thank Dr Emu a very powerful spell caster who help me to bring my husband back to me, few month ago i have a serious problem with my husband, to the extend that he left the house, and he started dating another woman and he stayed with the woman, i tried all i can to bring him back, but all my effort was useless until the day my friend came to my house and i told her every thing that had happened between me and my husband, then she told me of a powerful spell caster who help her when she was in the same problem I then contact Dr Emu and told him every thing and he told me not to worry my self again that my husband will come back to me after he has cast a spell on him, i thought it was a joke, after he had finish casting the spell, he told me that he had just finish casting the spell, to my greatest surprise within 48 hours, my husband really came back begging me to forgive him, if you need his help you can contact him with via email: Emutemple@gmail.com or add him up on his whatsapp +2347012841542 is willing to help any body that need his help.
    For more details about Dr Emu visit his Website: http://emutemple.website2.me/

    ReplyDelete