THE CRAZY AND THE WRONG: The New York Times explains QAnon!

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 19, 2020

Which part of this strikes you as wrong?:
As usual, your incomparable Daily Howler just keeps banging out those results.

This morning, at this site's request, the New York Times explains QAnon. For whatever reason, Kevin Roose's detailed report appears on the first page of the newspaper's Business section.

At any rate, Roose presents a detailed report about QAnon. He starts by setting the scene:
ROOSE (8/19/20): If you’re spending a lot of time online these days—and thanks to the pandemic, many of us are—you’ve probably heard of QAnon, the sprawling internet conspiracy theory that has taken hold among some of President Trump’s supporters.

But unless you’re very online, you likely still have questions about what exactly is going on.

[...]

QAnon is an incredibly convoluted theory, and you could fill an entire book explaining its various tributaries and sub-theories. But here are some basic things you should know.
Based on what we showed you yesterday, we'd say that QAnon seems to have taken hold of quite a few Trump supporters. That makes QAnon especially useful as a way to study false and crazy belief—as a way to ponder the ability of members of our species to fall for both the crazy and the wrong.

Roose calls QAnon a "conspiracy theory"—one which is "incredibly convoluted." How crazy are its adherents' beliefs? Roose starts off like this:
ROOSE (continuing directly): QAnon is the umbrella term for a sprawling set of internet conspiracy theories that allege, falsely, that the world is run by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who are plotting against Mr. Trump while operating a global child sex-trafficking ring.

QAnon followers believe that this clique includes top Democrats including Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and George Soros, as well as a number of entertainers and Hollywood celebrities like Oprah Winfrey, Tom Hanks, Ellen DeGeneres and religious figures including Pope Francis and the Dalai Lama. Many of them also believe that, in addition to molesting children, members of this group kill and eat their victims in order to extract a life-extending chemical from their blood.

According to QAnon lore, Mr. Trump was recruited by top military generals to run for president in 2016 in order to break up this criminal conspiracy, end its control of politics and the media, and bring its members to justice.
We know what you're thinking! You're thinking there's just no way a guy like Tom Hanks would ever do something like that!

Tom Hanks would never be dumb enough to eat his victims because he thought he could thereby "extract a life-extending chemical from their blood!" There's just no way he'd be that dumb.

That's probably what you thought.

Already, you see one of the problems with reporting or discussing this extremely peculiar topic. By any normal reckoning, the beliefs which define this "theory" take us very far into the realm of what seems to be The Crazy.

Indeed, the detailed beliefs are so crazy that it becomes hard to take this phenomenon seriously. We may tend to joke about it, or to think that reporting like Roose's must be based on some type of misunderstanding.

Anthropologically, the human brain isn't inclined to accept so deep an insult to our most fundamental belief systems. We've long been told—it's part of a basic framework of understanding—that "man [sic] is the rational animal."

According to anthropologists, that formulation by Aristotle was the original crazy claim, at least in the way the claim has widely been understood.

Man [sic] is the rational animal, Aristotle is said to have said. But uh-oh! Several thousand years later, along came a wave of new technologies—and with them, QAnon. How does your blue-eyed boy look now? as Cummings once almost said.

You're going to find that people will have a hard time dealing with discussions of QAnon. You'll find that people will have an even harder time when we start to ask a related question:

Is there any chance that we self-impressed liberals, Over Here in our tents, are also involved in widespread adherence to beliefs which are crazy or wrong?

Many people will have a hard time processing such a suggestion! For today, let's pull another excerpt from Roose's detailed explainer—an excerpt in which Roose explains how this "theory" ever got started:
ROOSE: In October 2017, a post appeared on 4chan, the notoriously toxic message board, from an anonymous account calling itself “Q Clearance Patriot.” This poster, who became known simply as “Q,” claimed to be a high-ranking intelligence officer with access to classified information about Mr. Trump’s war against the global cabal.

Q predicted that
this war would soon culminate in “The Storm”—an appointed time when Mr. Trump would finally unmask the cabal, punish its members for their crimes and restore America to greatness.

It’s a reference to a cryptic remark Mr. Trump made during an October 2017 photo op.
Posing alongside military generals, Mr. Trump said, “You guys know what this represents? Maybe it’s the calm before the storm.”

QAnon believers pointed to this moment as proof that Mr. Trump was sending coded messages about his plans
to break up the global cabal, with the help of the military.
By conventional reckoning, you have to be batshit crazy out of your head to believe in this "theory." But Roose goes on to say that millions of people are now part of the QAnon family.

Indeed, believers are now being elected to Congress, sent there by QAnon votes.

For today, we'll merely suggest that you read Roose's report. We'll also urge this one point on you:

Journalists will be reluctant to explore the meaning of this craziness. Indeed, similar examples of The Crazy have been floating around, and have been influential, for decades now:

We've already mentioned the many murders the Clintons were accused of committing. In the broader cultural realm, how about the preschool sex abuse fantasies of the 1980s, or possibly all the missing kids who appeared on all those milk cartons? Were the overwrought beliefs at the heart of those events just part of The Crazy too?

Thanks to the rise of modern technologies, it's now extremely easy to spread crazy ideas and claims. As a result, we the people are confronted with crazy claims to a degree without precedent in the past.

In large part thanks to those new technologies, spreading The Crazy is now big business. In the process, we're learning a very important fact:

We humans often have a very hard time spotting The Crazy. In many cases, our basic powers of discernment are just amazingly bad.

QAnon seems to be largely an act of The Crazy among Trump supporters. In our view, it's important to come to terms with the basic craziness of this emerging development—with its ominous suggestions about the possible future of public discourse.

For the most part, QAnon is happening Over There. Before too long, we'll be asking this:

QAnon seems to be part of The Crazy. How good a job are we liberals doing when it comes to spotting The Wrong?

Tomorrow: Instantly spreading The Crazy concerning Nominee Harris

48 comments:

  1. "...the ability of members of our species..."

    Your species, dear Bob, the shape-shifting alien Reptilians?

    "We know what you're thinking! You're thinking there's just no way a guy like Tom Hanks would ever do something like that!"

    No, dear Bob. We're thinking this shape-shifting alien Reptilian named Roose is making shit up.

    And that if this isn't what you're thinking, dear Bob, then you have to be a shape-shifting alien Reptilian too.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Once you accept Reaganomics as a legitimate economic theory, it's a short ride to Q-Anon.

    ReplyDelete
  3. By the way, dear Bob, is your mailbox safe, not stolen by fascists yet? Please check.

    And please make sure it chained to the fence well; use the strongest chain in Home Depot, please. Better safe than sorry, dear Bob.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nothing says anti-Establishment quite like vote suppression, amirite?

      Delete
    2. Мао трахает свою сестру и мать

      Delete
  4. “Is there any chance that we self-impressed liberals, Over Here in our tents, are also involved in widespread adherence to beliefs which are crazy or wrong?”

    Your readers are still waiting for you to tell us what you mean, Bob.

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  5. What is "The Wrong"? Somerby doesn't say. He wants to posit an equivalence between the clearly crazy Q-Anon theory and something on the left, but he doesn't suggest anything comparable.

    Are milk carton children an example of anything crazy? Actually not. It was found that those kids are mostly children abducted by non-custodial parents following a divorce and not by strangers, but nevertheless those kids are missing and their legal custodial parents are frantic about their safety and want them back -- as has been legally determined to be their right. Amber alerts similarly are often about children snatched by a non-custodial parent, which is against the law and not in the best interests of the children involved. But Somerby seems to be hinting that those kids on milk cartons are part of some craziness. And he also, by juxtaposition, seems to think that those sex abuse preschool cases are similar to the milk carton kids, fabricated in some way.

    Stephen Ceci wrote an important book about how suggestibility of children during questioning can lead adults astray. That did lead to some false accusations back in the 1980s, until therapists and other questioners of children learned how to ask questions without influencing their responses. It is necessary that claims of sexual abuse be investigated, but the outcome in the 1980's was generally (eventually) to exonerate those accused. But that isn't the same as adults believing some hugely crazy things about major public figures. There is no evidence being offered in support of this Crazy at all.

    Some theorists are hypothesizing that Q-Anon has emerged from the need of Trump supporters to justify their faith in him in the face of covid. Continuing to support a man who has been such an obvious failure as president requires a huge excuse, such as saving kids from cannibalism. Trump supporters need some reason for believing his lies and Q-Anon supplies that reason.

    There are some other crazy beliefs floating around. One is the belief in white racial superiority. Somerby may be working his way up to calling the entire construct of race an example of "Wrong" but that didn't originate on the left. It comes from the right. Another example of "wrong" is the belief in male superiority. Another is the belief that immigrants are bad for our country (contradicted by a great deal of research and evidence). Faith in American exceptionalism is another example of a "wrong" belief. Somerby hasn't shown much interest in combating those wrong beliefs. He blames liberals for opposing them. So, what will Somerby come up with? Maybe he will challenge the idea that working hard leads to individual success -- the Horatio Alger myth? Again, many of these "wrong" beliefs either came from the right or are stronger on the right.

    More likely, his purpose is to chide liberals and he will move on to something else without ever telling us what he means by "The Wrong" that we are blind to on our side.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Human beings have been shown to be rational by numerous studies in cognitive psychology. Their reasoning has not been shown to conform to formal logic as formulated by mathematicians and philosophers. It has been shown to conform to probabilistic mathematics and fuzzy or modal logic, especially when decisions occur outside conscious awareness. People are especially good at making decisions when many factors are involved and must be weighted in a decision (Herb Simon earned a Nobel Prize for his discovery of "satisficing," the process people balance multiple factors to reach a decision.

    Somerby doesn't know anything about any of this because he only re-reads Wittgenstein and Aristotle. He also skipped history classes on the Age of Reason (1700's-1900's) when philosophers developed ideas about how the mind works, invented statistics for describing human behavior, and figured out how to measure cognitive processes using behavior. Their first step was to compare thinking to Aristotle's predictions and discover that people just don't think that way. Somerby stopped at that point and has never considered how people DO think. If people were as bad at reasoning as he suggests, we would not have survived as a species because acting in conflict with reality is often fatal.

    We are seeing a prime example of that these days with the whole covid-mask controversy. Those who think masks are unnecessary, a belief in conflict with science, are infecting themselves and killing themselves off in greater numbers than those who wear masks. Unfortunately, they are also infecting and killing innocent members of their social circle as well, those who trusted them. But that is how nature works and nature doesn't care whether you are Republican or Democrat. As Trump is well aware, even a saviour in a conspiracy theory can catch the virus, so he is making sure that he doesn't come into contact with anyone carrying it. In the long run, QAnon believers will kill themselves off, but they will do a lot of damage before they go.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The report casually says that millions of people believe the crazy things listed. That's a very strong accusation. Is it verified? I don't think so. It must feel good to call millions of Trump supporters "crazy", but I suspect there's a huge jump in the reasoning.

    Meanwhile, leftist crazies are proving their craziness every day, e.g. by burning down a US Post Office. See
    https://www.postalmag.com/postalblog/photo-rioters-destroy-minneapolis-post-office-55406/

    P.S. - On re-reading, I see the reporter actually said "millions of people are now part of the QAnon family". That vague phrase presumably refers to the number of hits. Opening a site may or may not prove belief in that site.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one sane wastes time reading such a site.

      You don't give fair credit to the riot instigators on the right who have been inciting riots, giving direction to the free floating anger that exists on both the right and left among people who are jobless and worried about the future. Trump terrifies people but they don't know what to do, so they act out. There is no theory or belief behind that rioting, just a bunch of people drinking and engaging in mindless mob violence.

      You don't know who is burning what because the right is mixed in with the left and a whole bunch of non-partisan rioters and looters.

      Oddly, I don't know anyone personally who has caught the virus, but I DO know several people who believe in Q-Anon. That should tell you something about its incidence. In fact, using an infection/pandemic model may be a good way to think about crazy beliefs during these troubling times.

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    2. Regardless of who is responsible for property destruction (something pro Trump groups are known to do), it can be replaced. George Floyd and the thousands of others killed by cops cannot be replaced.

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  8. "This morning, at this site's request, the New York Times explains QAnon."

    It isn't cute or funny to attribute the NY Times story to this insignificant blog's actions. Psychologists call this "grandiosity." Little kids think that their actions have far greater impact than they do (that's why they think they cause their parents' divorces), but kids grow out of this as they learn more about cause and effect. In an adult, such a claim is a psychiatric symptom. Perhaps Somerby intends this as humor (or irony or sarcasm), but it would be mindreading to assume that (as deadrat reminds us).

    Trump thinks he is responsible for more than he actually does too. In him, it is a symptom. That's why I don't find this very funny when Somerby does it. It is sad, pathetic and scary (in Trump, because of his capacity for messing things up). In Somerby, it may be wishful thinking, and that is mostly just sad.

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    Replies
    1. It isn't cute or funny to attribute the NY Times story to this insignificant blog's actions. Psychologists call this "grandiosity."

      It isn't cute or funny to take seriously TDH's claims that the NYT takes its marching orders from him. Psychologists call this "literal mindedness."

      You probably also believe that TDH thinks he's operating from a sprawling campus, surrounded by assistants, and consulting with actual anthropologists in actual nearby caves.

      What a numpty you are.

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    2. deadrat deadrat * ,!, ,!,

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    3. Deadrat, have you noticed that when Somerby describes his sprawling campus with his assistants and all those anthropologists, he is describing the kind of university environment that those despised professors work at? Some literal minded people would call that professional envy.

      I may be a "numpty" (whatever that is) but Somerby is what psychologists would call "transparent" and "lacking in insight".

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    4. Some literal minded people would call that professional envy.

      No, literal-minded persons intepret language in its most basic sense, without consideration of understatement, hyperbole, facetiousness, irony, etc. Such persons would think that Somerby was serious about his campus, his assistants, and his anthropologists. They would conclude that Somerby is either deluded or trying to delude others.

      Some mind readers don't believe in the campus/assistants/anthropologists, but they're convinced these stories illuminate Somerby's motives, intentions, and other states of his interiority.

      Numpty is British slang for the clueless and ineffective. That shoe fits you perfectly.

      Somerby may be "lacking in insight." This is not a judgment a reasonable person makes without talking to the subject.

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    5. It doesn't matter if Bob believes the Right-wing nonsense he puts on his blog. He's an ass for repeating it either way.

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    6. Deadrat, it is odd that you think a person's interiority is not revealed by their behavior, including their use of language.

      It is, however, consistent with your belief that psychology, which has developed methods for studying that which is interior, inherently unobservable, is a pseudoscience.

      Your assertion that the interior cannot be known, is equivalent to someone who says that microscopic organisms cannot be known or atomic subparticles, because they cannot be seen by eye.

      You are sounding foolish today.

      Delete
    7. Deadrat, it is odd that you think a person's interiority is not revealed by their behavior, including their use of language.

      Well, it would be odd if I believed any such thing. What I actually think is that text alone is an unreliable indicator of a person's interiority. In other words, it's crucial to observe others' behavior and engage in conversation with them. Even then it's hard to plumb the depths of the motivations and intentions of other people. People are often times unaware of their own motivations and intentions.

      I trust that we both have seen the applicability of that last sentence in our own lives. It's part of the human condition.

      It is, however, consistent with your belief that psychology, which has developed methods for studying that which is interior, inherently unobservable, is a pseudoscience.


      How would you rate the consistency of my actual belief with the best of what psychology has to offer?

      Most of what the field has to offer is still pseudoscience.

      Your assertion that the interior cannot be known,....

      We can stop there at the ellipsis as that's not my assertion. My assertion is that the bare text of this blog is an unreliable indicator of the interiority of the blogger. The deep analysis of Somerby that we find from Anonymous ignoramuses tells us more about them than it does about him.

      You are sounding foolish today.

      Possibly. It's a common occurrence and another part of the human condition.

      But since you seem to have completely missed my actual claims, whom would you rate as the foolish one today?

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  9. QAnon attracts people who are willing to entertain absurd and bizarre beliefs. So does Trump. I don't think there are many people who believe in QAnon but don't support Trump. So there is a natural limit to how many people can belief this crap. It is the set of Trump supporters (excluding those who are pedophiles and those who are named as perpetrators of the conspiracy, such as Tom Hanks, Oprah, etc). Since that subset of people are already crazy in other ways, what difference can it possibly make if they are crazy in this way too?

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    1. OK but Bob Costas did admit to purchasing urine and blood and using it a ceremony as QAnon had always claimed.

      So a broken clock is right twice a day.

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    2. Was he being drug tested? What did he admit to?

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    3. He admitted to participating in the bloodletting of lamb in a pagan ritual that also involved African American urine, which he was caught purchasing online.

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    4. Ritual bloodletting of animals is part of some religions. I don't know if he did that as a journalist or out of curiosity, but this isn't the same as the QAnon belief that children are being used by satanists who eat them. This is a variation on the blood libel against Jews who were accused of eating Christian babies as part of their religion. That is a bigoted false accusation used to justify the persecution of Jews.

      It may be similarly dangerous to have a large group of people who believe such things about targeted individuals in our society. I doubt Tom Hanks is laughing about this, given that the mere mention of someone's name is enough to generate death threats and attacks on someone (witness the latest stunt instigated by Tucker Carlson). Remember the guy who raided that Pizza parlor to free the babies in the basement.

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    5. Hello? Costas was caught in the basement of a DC are Sunglass Hut participating in a live bloodletting. He was wearing a cape. There was also traces of African American urine and semen (ingredients used in many elite occult rituals) found all over the floor later. Tell me now it was "just out of curiosity."

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    6. 5:51 really? Bob Costas did no such thing, your chain was yanked.

      I doubt many Republicans actually believe QAnon garbage, but it is likely the future of the party, as it's followers are now starting to get elected as Republicans.

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    7. Buddy, I've been following this Costas/lambs blood story for fourteen years. So dont go telling me whose yank is being chained.

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    8. I've been to the actual Sunglass Hut.

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    9. I can affirm the previous poster's comment about Costas and satanic lamb rituals. Apparently, they would saddle lambs before the ritual. Put saddles on them and ride them. Which is disgusting enough. But then they would perform a heavy 18th century Masonic satanic cult ritual where everyone, wearing nothing but capes, would watch Costas (there were many other celebrities that took part including Quincy Jones and Andre the Giant) lead the bloodletting and subsequent urine and hemoglobin body baths. Then they all performed sex rituals on the what was left of the lamb. They seem to think the whole thing makes you live longer and have more success.

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    10. The whole ritual is even more disgusting when performed without the lamb.

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    11. They reportedly use cow too. And occasionally squid.

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  10. Remember, this is a media criticism blog, except when the blogger discusses the Crazy and/or Wrong that liberals may (or may not) believe that may (or may not) be equivalent and/or similar in some strained false equivalence way to the Crazy of QAnon that the media has been discussing for several years that Somerby thinks they are just now discussing because he happens to be paying attention now.

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  11. Is it wrong to be crazy? I'm not sure that mental illness is a moral issue, any more than physical illness is (setting aside illness caused by lifestyle choices).

    Is it wrong to be wrong? I can't see how wrong belief out of ignorance is a moral issue either, unless someone is deliberately trying to remain ignorant. On the other hand, deliberately holding a wrong belief in furtherance of some goal seems like a moral issue because that wrongness can lead to a variety of harms to others. But then that would make Trump's falsehoods a moral issue, because even if he believes in his wrong beliefs, deliberately holding beliefs that harm others (such as a belief that oleander will cure covid) seems to me to be a moral issue.

    I do tend to believe that it is morally wrong to be crazy and not seek treatment, as Trump may be, because being crazy harms others too. Mary Trump's book is mostly about how being a member of Trump's family hurt her father, herself and her brother. Demonstrably, the craziness of that family hurt them and other people. So, I don't see crazy as harmless, even if it is not deliberate. Further, there are crazy people who do not engage in the deliberate harm that Trump and his family have done.

    Then there is the question of whether, recognizing the crazy, those surrounding Trump should have chosen to benefit from manipulating that craziness, instead of enforcing laws meant to protect the public from crazy and self-serving behavior, such as fraud.

    The use of the word "Wrong" to describe what liberals may believe strikes me as a loaded word. It presumes a moral judgment that needs to be proven by analyzing the content of the beliefs, but Somerby has not asserted any wrong belief yet, so we cannot judge whether he is right about it.

    It would be nice if simple factual incorrectness (wrong in terms of facts) were a victimless crime, but it is not. What we don't know can and does hurt both ourselves and other people.

    Maybe Somerby will include our faith in Democracy as a system on that list of Wrong beliefs that liberal hold. When voters hold wrong beliefs or crazy beliefs, the idea is that their votes may not be the best choices for our country, but the core assumption of our system is that this is self-correcting because the majority cannot hold such wrong beliefs without it becoming obvious that those beliefs aren't working out very well for people, then voters should reject them and the ideas will fade away.

    ReplyDelete
  12. “By conventional reckoning, you have to be batshit crazy out of your head to believe in this "theory." Indeed, the detailed beliefs are so crazy that it becomes hard to take this phenomenon seriously.”

    Is this really anything new or worth worrying about? For years surveys have shown that more than 1% of Americans believe they’ve been abducted and anally probed by aliens aboard UFOs. That comes to more than 3 million of your fellow citizens.

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    Replies
    1. Are you saying that the Anonymous commenters here have not been abducted by aliens or that they have but weren't anally probed?

      Delete
    2. deadrat deadrat * ,!, ,!,

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    3. It could explain much of what we're seeing here. Some of these Anons could be among the 1% that underwent these traumatic abductions. Their uncontrollable urge to type stupid/boring comments could be a side effects of all that probing.

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    4. What explains the uncontrollable urge for the Non-anonymous commenters to type stupid/boring comments?

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    5. 7:11 AM Probably the side-effects of too much cannibalism.

      Delete
  13. “This morning, at this site's request, the New York Times explains QAnon.”

    Or, Somerby could have noted this Times story, from 2018:

    “From 2018: Explaining QAnon, the Internet Conspiracy Theory That Showed Up at a Trump Rally”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/what-is-qanon.html

    ReplyDelete
  14. QAnon conveniently picks up where child abuse hysteria in the late 80's, early 90's left off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
    Look up the McMartin preschool case or other similar cases with outlandish satanic worshiping and child abuse allegations. You can also watch some excellent documentaries: "Capturing the Friedmans" or "Paradise Lost", which is a little different, but still taps in into the satanic abuse hysteria. As bizarre as QAnon sounds, we had similar accusations that were vigorously pursued local and federal authorities; accusations that were almost as bizarre and made up out of whole cloth.

    In the end though, conspiracies like that are just a place holder that justify unbridled hate and distrust of the other side. No wonder Trump plays coy with QAnon.

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    Replies
    1. Satan worshipers who abuse children are an urban myth, and that was also true back in the 1980s. The problem in the 1980s was that children were being interrogated using techniques that supplied leading and false testimony from kids that put people in jail until they figured out that the kids were saying false things. It wasn't hysteria because the kids were accusing preschool adults. Parents are going to be protective. The so-called hysteria subsided when researchers showed investigators (police & social workers) how to properly interview children. The dislike of child predators hasn't gone away and won't.

      QAnon has a lot more to it than the preschool hysteria or the alien abductions. It has political elements that support the lies Trump tells and that justify his illegal actions as President. There are also religious elements.

      This isn't simple hate. It is a political manipulation of a gullible public.

      Delete
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