NO OTHERS NEED APPLY: How many others were shot and killed?

FRIDAY, APRIL 13, 2018

Part 5—Though many, not nearly enough:
We continue to dream an impossible dream about an imagined survey.

The survey we would like to see concerns police shootings and killings.

We live in a time when certain types of such events receive a great deal of attention, based on the demography of the deceaed. Extensive press coverage is augmented by embellished, false and irrelevant facts, and by facts which get disappeared.

Meanwhile, when it comes to fatal shootings by police, no other groups need apply! We wonder what this type of idiocratic coverage—we'll grant you, it's typical of the times—has done to our impoverished prehuman minds.

How many people may possibly think that none of the others get shot and killed by police? Beyond that, what sorts of answers would result from the second part of a survey question like this?
Possible survey question:
According to the Washington Post, police officers shot and killed 223 African-Americans in the year 2017.

As far as you know, did police officers shoot and kill any "whites" during that year? If so, can you give an estimate as to a possible number?
We wouldn't be asking if police had shot and killed an appropriate number of others; we'll start discussing that question below. We'd simply be asking what respondents imagined the real number was.

How many "white people" got shot and killed? We wonder what respondents would say.

How many people in "other" groups did police officers shoot and kill? We'll guess that some people may think none at all! Once again, consider that recent Washington Journal segment, in which the topic was "Race and Police Shootings."

C-Span's guest was Kirsten West Savali, an associate editor and senior writer at The Root. To watch her 34-minute appearance, you can just click here.

In the first ten minutes of the program, Savali cited an array of police shootings dating to 1965. As is fairly conventional now, only one group of victims had been asked to apply.

At the 11-minute mark, a caller said she was being selective in her presentation about one recent shooting. Savali responded like this:
SAVALI (3/31/18): [We can talk about] so many black people in this country who have been shot down by police officers, and it's because there's a devaluation of black lives, period. Period.

We see all the time that police officers are able to de-escalate encounters with white people in this country, and that same thing does not happen with black people in this country. So it is not cherry-picking, at all. And we have to be honest about the fact that this is systemic, and it is continuous, and it happens all the time.
Citing that number from the Washington Post, 223 people shot and killed is, of course, a large number. It's certainly true that a large number of African-Americans were shot and killed by police officers last year.

On the other hand, there may have been a bit of hyperbole lurking in Savali's remarks.

Later, at the 25-minute mark, Savali complained about the role of "mass incarceration" and "mass criminalization" in the black community. You'll rarely hear the topic discussed on our "corporate liberal" cable news channel, but there is no doubt that incarceration rates are astounding within black America, and that this has had some terrible effects within the black community.

That said, it's hard to know how so many people could be in prison if police systematically refuse to de-escalate arrest situations, simply shooting black people instead. If this behavior "is continuous." If it happens "all the time."

Meanwhile, do police officers "de-escalate encounters with" the others "all the time?" In fact, that isn't entirely true, based on the Washington Post's numbers:
Numbers shot and killed by police officers, 2017
Black people: 223
White people: 457
According to the Post's compilation, police officers failed to "de-escalate encounters with white people" on at least 457 occasions last year. That may not have been a large enough number of failures to get the numbers where they belong, but the number suggests that a bit of hyperbole exists in Savali's remarks.

Is such hyperbole helpful? Beyond that, is it helpful when we embellish accounts of high-profile shootings—when we invent fake facts, disappear real facts and emphasize wholly irrelevant facts, all in service to our desire to make some particular shooting seem maximally heinous?

Granted, this conduct can make us feel good. But is it helpful or honest?

At this point, it might be wise to look at a fuller set of facts. These are the basic numbers the Post has established concerning police shootings last year:
Numbers shot and killed by police officers, 2017
Total: 987
Black people: 223
White people: 457
Hispanics: 179
Other: 44
Unknown: 84
Within the Post's lexicon, "Other" will typically refer to people who are Native American or Asian-American. The "identities" of the Unknown can be pondered at the link above, within their extensive body of work on this topic.

The shooting of people who are unarmed has received a great deal of attention. The term can be defined different ways, but these are the numbers the Post has compiled:
Numbers of unarmed people shot and killed by police officers, 2017
Total: 68
Black people: 20
White people: 30
Hispanics: 13
Other: 3
Unknown: 2
For the record, the Post considers "toy guns" as a separate category from "unarmed." The reason:

Despite the way we liberals play embellishment games with this topic, the types of "toy guns" in question are indistinguishable from real guns, especially after orange safety markers have been removed; are sometimes used in the commission of actual crimes; and will often be taken to be real guns when police officers are required to make instant decisions, unlike pundits examining statistics in the comfort of home.

Lots of people get shot and killed by police in this country. Sometimes, overt misconduct is involved. On most occasions, that almost certainly isn't the case—and as long as our nation is "awash in guns," the number of shootings may be reduced, but these incidents won't cease to exist.

This brings us to our final question. Shouldn't police be shooting more whites, to make the numbers proportional?

We'd like to see that question explored. For starters, though, consider this:

According to the Washington Post, the numbers broke down this additional way last year:
Numbers shot and killed by police officers, 2017
Men: 940
Women: 45
Unknown: 2
Good grief! According to the Washington Post, 95.4% of last year's victims were men!

Might we take a guess? Few people will suspect that these numbers reflect some substantial "bias" on the part of police.

Differential treatment by gender may play some role here. But most people would likely assume that this vast disparity reflects the fact that men are much more likely to be involve in violent and/or criminal behavior than women.

The difference between whites and blacks is nowhere near as extreme. In fact, police officers shot more than twice as many whites last year—but as a percentage of their overall population, blacks were much more likely to be shot and killed, as compared to whites.

Does that differential rate of victimization reflect some sort of bias? We would assume that it probably does, to some unknown extent. That said:

We'll now introduce another fact which results from our brutal racial history. Even now, in the present day, blacks are more involved in violent behavior than whites, both as perpetrators and as victims.

Please note: This involves a very small proportion of the overall population, no matter what group we discuss. That said, in the realm of homicide victims, here are some numbers from U.S. News in the less than distant past:
CELLA AND NEUHAUSER (9/29/16): Black people have consistently accounted for close to half the country's homicide victims, making up more than 50 percent of the broader pool of those killed overall every year since 2010. The number of black victims increased 15 percent in 2015 over 2014.

Of the 13,455 cases from last year in which the FBI listed a victim's racial information, 7,039 victims—or 52.3 percent—were black. That compares with 5,854 cases—or 43.5 percent—in which the victim was white, an increase of about 8 percent from last year.
You'll have to search for the numbers which break such matters down into the demographic categories of black, white and Hispanic.

Violence, poverty and despair are all part of our brutal racial history. It should be said again that criminal violence involves a very small proportion of every group's population.

That said, violent crime is more prevalent, at this time, in the black community. To what extent does that explain the disproportionate numbers of police shootings?

We have no idea! Given our idiocratic culture, you can be entirely sure that you'll see no such questions discussed within the high-profile press corps. On cable, the stars will give you The Chase and The Sex. No other topic, no matter how important, will ever need apply!

At one time, our journalistic culture was merely low-IQ. Over the past few decades, it has persistently slumped toward full-blown idiocracy.

Every matter of public interest is discussed in idiocratic fashion. That's true of our nation's public schools; of our nation's health care costs; of our nation's incarceration rates; and of Barack Obama's birthplace, along with the number of murders the Clintons committed.

It's true of our nation's federal budget, in which, as Paul Krugman notes once again, a flimflam man has long been treated as a truth-teller by the children who get hired to pose as our upper-end journalists. The ridiculous Comey was always sold as The World's Most Upright Man too!

As new technologies came into play, our public discourse steadily moved from low-IQ to full-blown idiocratic.

Nothing isn't idiocratic now. Could we make an exception for "race," our nation's most sacred topic?

56 comments:

  1. They certainly didn't choose to de-escalate in the 1993 Waco incident, and instead wiped out a whole community.

    Even though all they would have to do was not to attack a bunch of mostly women and children with tanks and chemical weapons. Tsk. Oh well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More good news from the neo-con warhawk files:

      Treasonous bastard DJT to pardon treasonous bastard Scooter Libby in continuing transparent obstruction of justice.

      Branch Davidians have no comment.

      Delete
    2. Those women and children were considered hostages. There was concern about whether the leader of the Waco compound and the men involved would harm the women and children. The outcome in Waco was certainly NOT what was intended.

      I don't know what your politics are, but I do believe you have no right to use an event that arouses strong emotions, like Waco, for your trolling purposes. Whatever else you say about Waco, the fact that you are doing that is in itself offensive. So shut the fuck up about our national tragedies.

      Delete
    3. I don't know what your politics are..

      He/she/it is an anarchist provocateur.

      Delete
    4. Those government agents involved in the Waco incident were largely conservative Republicans. That said, the cult members were largely responsible for their own deaths. Those women and children in the cult were horribly abused by the overly-religious cult leaders. If you follow people like William Lane Craig, you will know those children are better off having been taken by god to a better place.

      Waco is of course small fry compared to horrible acts perpetrated by the war mongering of republicans and governments of countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc

      Seemingly moronic commenters like David and Mao have to be plants from some Democratic or liberal organization as a tool to sharpen liberal debate - if they were really opposing liberals who would hire such incompetent boobs?

      Delete
    5. 2:19 - Janet Reno did sign off on the raid that led to the mass gassings that brutally tortured the women and children before killing them.

      Delete
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    7. 3:29 complete garbage.

      Janet Reno's decision was at the insistent prodding of the conservative Republican FBI agents. No women nor children were tortured by anybody except by the overly-religious cult members; they were not "gassed", harmless tear gas was deployed to no effect. The cult members were responsible for their own deaths.

      Delete
  2. Dwight Eisenhower admired Robert E Lee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOrtOlU8f9Y

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did he admire him as a general or as a man? Did he perhaps admire him as a slaveholder or as a military leader?

      Dwight Eisenhower went to West Point where young boys are taught to admire military figures.

      Delete
    2. There's a Grant Hall at West Point, and there's a Lee Barracks. Ike chose to admire Robert E Lee but not US Grant. He didn't admire any German generals from the Second World War, no matter how skillful they were.

      Delete
    3. Dwight Eisenhower also admired Kay Summersby. No relation to Bob as far as I know.

      Delete
  3. Somerby says: "How many people may possibly think that none of the others get shot and killed by police?"

    Who is stupid enough to think this, regardless of what is printed in media such as the NY Times and Washington Post?

    Somerby can make up any number of stupid things that might be believed by uninformed people and call for our news media to proactively address them. Alert -- ducks cannot speak. Alert -- there is no reason to believe a 12 year old will be elected president in 2020. Alert -- hairstyles for toe hair will not be a thing next year. Alert -- cars are not yet able to fly.

    Here we see what Somerby truly thinks of those Others he is so solicitous about. He thinks they are morons. I have decided to return the favor.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Black Lives Matter was founded by people whose specific concern was the killing of black people. They link these killings, rightly or wrongly, to a continuation of our "brutal racial history." They cultivated a certain amount of publicity and notoriety. Nowhere do they state that white people aren't also being killed by police.

    Partly through their efforts, there is more public scrutiny of police, which helps hold police departments more accountable in all cases involving citizen deaths.

    Because BLM made a public name for themselves, they were covered by the media. That doesn't prevent other groups from doing the same thing, such as an activist group concerned with all police shootings.

    Finally, it's always a bit rich that Somerby, in order to critique the media for allegedly "disappearing" non-blacks killed by police, uses data painstakingly compiled by one of our upper-end mainstream news orgs, the Washington Post. Thanks, WaPo. (I say "allegedly" because there has been extensive coverage of some of the incidents involving non-blacks; remember Daniel Shaver?)

    By the way, the WaPo tells us that the FBI and CDC data on police shootings is incomplete or problematical. Thus the Post is doing independent research to come up with their data. It's hard to know the real numbers if our official government agencies don't maintain accurate records.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Black lives matter has never said anything about blacks killing blacks.

      Delete
    2. Their main focus, as the commenter @1:08 notes, is the killing of blacks by state-sanctioned authority, such as police. That is their specific concern. An activist group usually narrows its focus to be more effective in a specific are if concern.

      Are you also going to note that Mothers Against Drunk Driving doesn't also talk about other types of deaths involving automobiles?

      Delete
  5. Thanks for posting this. The impression the media gives is that only black people are shot by the police. It also seems to be a male thing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good condensed version of Somerbyspeak. "The media gives the impression." It would be better and more accurate to say "I get the impression from the media..."

      Delete
  6. Somerby raises the sensible question of what the "right" ratio of black to white police killings should be. More formally, he wants to know what the ratio would be in the null hypothesis...that police treatment of members of the public is uninfluenced by race.

    It has frequently been remarked that blacks are killed by police disproportionately to their representation in the population as a whole. This seems to be the comparison that the MSM prefers and presents almost exclusively.

    Somerby looks for guidance to the level of crime in black communities, specifically the ratio of black to white murder victims. Though he doesn't say it, blacks are quite significantly under-represented in the population of police killings by that measure.

    My preferred approach to this question has always been to compare the demographics of police shootings to the demographics of the prison population. The idea here is that you are very unlikely to be shot by a police officer if you are simply asking for directions. Surely the majority of police killings occur during arrests for serious crime, and arrests rates for serious crime seem likely to translate into rates of incarceration.

    According to Wikipedia, blacks made up 35% of jail inmates and 37% of prison inmates in 2014. From the numbers that Somerby cites, roughly 25% of those killed by police in 2017 with known race were black (223/(987-84))...blacks form a larger percentage of the prison population than the population of those killed by the police.

    What does this mean? Are blacks less likely to be violent or confrontational with the police than other races when arrested by the police? Perhaps the black prison population involves a higher fraction of people incarcerated for non-violent crimes. Perhaps blacks are sentenced, on average, to longer sentences. Whatever, the cause, it is very hard from this comparison to conclude that there is any evidence that officers have a greater disregard for black than white lives in the process of moving them from the street to prison.

    Here are the incarceration data:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "that police treatment of members of the public is uninfluenced by race"

      Hmm. How can it be uninfluenced when they know very well that roughing up or killing a pale-skinned person of the same social status is far less problematic for them?

      Delete
    2. Studies show we are all racist.

      Title

      Delete
    3. Mao - that was the null hypothesis...how would the numbers look IF, that is IF, one more time IF, police were uninfluenced by race.

      That said...your hypothesis that police officers are deterred from using deadly force against blacks more than whites, is another possible explanation of the apparent under-representation of blacks in the population of police killings. But note..."another possible explanation"...something much less certain than your language might be read to suggest.

      Interestingly, when I have done this analysis in the past, I have recall finding that there is virtually no under-representation of blacks by my preferred measure. I have usually done that work with longer-term data sets. If there really is a significant difference between those long-term data sets and the 2017 data that Somerby reports, it might even be that the recent controversy around police killings of blacks has had the kind of effect you describe.

      Delete
    4. Police, even black police, are influenced by race.

      Your analysis is not scholarly, just putting it politely.

      Delete
    5. Sure, never mind. I just don't find race-based stats useful, whether it's IQ by race, or crime by race, or victimhood by race. 'Lies, damned lies, and statistics', as they say. And then there are journos and politicians - totally in a league of their own, when it comes to lies...

      Delete
    6. @Mark:
      Why would you look at the race of murder victims? That doesn't correlate with suspects (or purported suspects) killed by police. The most notable and publicized incidents in the recent past were victims who were unarmed, or were not involved in violent crimes, or even crimes, for that matter (Tamir Rice for example). You'd need to drill down into the number killed (given by the WaPo) to see why those people were involved in encounters with police in the first place.

      Here's some statistics, to show how anything can be shown:

      According to the FBI, in 2016, 26.9% of all people arrested were black, 69.6% were white (this includes all types of crime). Yet, according to the WaPo, in 2016, out of 901 people killed by police where the race is known, 51.7% were white, and 25.8% were black. Yet whites represent 69.6% of all people arrested. Thus, by this measure, whites are killed at a far lower rate than blacks relative to number of arrests.

      Delete
    7. Some commentators seem surprised at the way men who talked nonstop about fiscal probity under Barack Obama cheerfully supported tax cuts that will explode the deficit under Trump. They also seem shocked at the apparent indifference of Ryan and his colleagues to Trump’s corruption and contempt for the rule of law. What happened to their principles?

      The answer, of course, is that the principles they claimed to have never had anything to do with their actual goals. In particular, Republicans haven’t abandoned their concerns about budget deficits, because they never cared about deficits; they only faked concern as an excuse to cut social programs.

      Delete
    8. "I just don't find race-based stats useful..."

      What kind of shitty Conservative are you? Next thing you know, you won't be repeating the nonsense that the 2008 economic crisis caused by banker and Wall Street fraud, was actually caused by the Community Redevelopment Act. At that point, what makes you any different than a "liberal zombie"?

      Delete
  7. I'm still off topic, but this is a little closer.

    https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/high-school-freshman-shot-at-after-stopping-to-ask-for-directions-to-school

    ReplyDelete
  8. Black men are not White men with a dark tan. They have a different culture, are less educated, poorer, and for good reason fear the police. Most cops are white, they believe that black men are faster and stronger than white men so they are more likly to use deadly force against them. Also black men are more likly to be typa A personalities and act more assertive and more often have a criminal record and do not wish to be arrested again so they run. The police do not like that and for now killing someone for running from the police is not a crime but actually procedure.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're an idiot.

      Delete
    2. "they believe that black men are faster and stronger than white men"

      The cop that shot Mike Brown in Ferguson thought Brown could run through a hail of bullets and still kill him.
      Also, the cops that shot 12-year old Tamir Rice, thought he was an adult man.

      Fortunately "post-racial America" whole-heartedly supported the cops beliefs.

      Delete
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  11. First the "anti-elite" President handed the economy to Wall Street, and Mao and David said nothing.
    Then un-warhawk President bombed Syria and Mao and David said nothing.

    In Mao and David's defense, it wasn't like Trump pushed for reparations for slavery.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "WASHINGTON—The number of Americans claiming new unemployment benefits has never been so low for so long.

      Initial jobless claims, a proxy for layoffs across the U.S., decreased by 9,000 to a seasonally adjusted 233,000 in the week ended April 7, the Labor Department said Thursday. This means claims have now held below 300,000 for 162 consecutive weeks, cementing the longest streak for weekly records dating back to 1967."


      https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-weekly-jobless-claims-hold-below-300-000-for-longest-streak-on-record-1523536549

      Trump produced jobs for ordinary Americans, just as he promised.

      Delete
    2. And released his tax returns.
      And started a $4 Billion infrastructure program
      And went after the opioid epidemic by making a speech about it.
      -------
      But all those don't count. And, although nice try, neither does the unemployment rate drop. What matters is the bigotry. Same as it ever was.

      Delete
    3. The only thing that will make David drop his Trump crush, is if Trump decides to treat black people as first-class citizens.

      Delete
    4. Trump is the Republican party. Never forget that.

      Delete
    5. Trump is the Republican party, and the Republican party is the party of white supremacy.

      Delete
    6. D in C. How to lie with statistics: Ignore the trend. Start your graph on January 20, 2017.

      Delete
  12. The general population has never really been concerned with the numbers, regardless of the level of statistical sophistication. On the whole people are even more innumerate than the media. What has raised interest is mostly video of actual encounters, or in some cases without video other specific evidence of police shooting unarmed people. The videos often clearly show that police behavior is unacceptable. There has also been video of unacceptable police behavior in non-fatal situations. The racial disparity (based on population ratios) in shooting unarmed people is actually worse than the total number of shootings.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Violence against Black people by police is a direct result of their negative opinions of them. Next question please.

    ReplyDelete
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    My Name Olivia Stephen form Tx,USA. After 12years of marriage, me and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me and moved to California to be with another woman. I felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, I was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Unity can help get ex back fast. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a Love spell for me. 28 hours later, my husband really called me and told me that he miss me and the kids so much, So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and the kids. Then from that day,our Marriage was now stronger than how it were before, All thanks to Dr Unity. he is so powerful and i decided to share my story on the internet that Dr.Unity real and powerful spell caster who i will always pray to live long to help his children in the time of trouble, if you are here and you need your Ex back or your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore, contact this powerful spell caster now. Here’s his contact:Email him at: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com ,or Call/WhatsApp him on:+2348071622464 ,his website:https://unityspelltemple126848969.wordpress.com .

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  17. My gratitude and honor to say a big thanks to a man with truth and do as he promise please every one on this site should join me and thank Dr UZOYA for the glory and happiness he gave to me, i break up with my husband 2 months back and i was down and do not know what to do until i saw a post about this spell caster Dr UZOYA who i explain my situation to, and then he said to me cry not my daughter for what you seek for is right here in my temple he gave me hope when i have no hope to my greatest notice, he did the spell for me and my husband was back 3 days after the spell please if you need any help my advise for you all is go to Dr UZOYA cause he is the best of all, contact him via driraborspellcaster@gmail.com OR you can call him directly on his cell phone number +1(301)909-8775

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  18. Effective love spell to get lost lover back/stop divorce/save broken marriage happylovespell2@gmail.com is the best on urgent love spell casting with 100% result guarantee
    Am Sai Vidhya from CA Usa my boyfriend cheated on me and asked for breakup. I don't believe at first i try to get back with him but all he told me was he’s with someone else. that he is no longer interested in marrying me at that point i was heart broken coz i love my boyfriend so much that i could not let go off him all of a sudden he left me, i really love him and never can imagine my life without him. not until i came across a powerful real spell caster Dr happy who promise me 48hours urgent love spell to get back with my boyfriend, good forty-eight {48} hours. hmm-mm, it was a good night time at 10:05pm within the days that Dr happy told me that my boyfriend will be back, at first i heard the bell rings getting close to my door i heard someone saying honey!!!, it sound familiar i opened the door and i saw my boyfriend standing and weeping in front of me. i was not surprised because its all i have been praying for him to come back home. Guess what in six days after i noticed my system and my body temperature is changed and i went to clinic for check up and the doctor told me that there is life in me which means i am pregnant i really wants to use this opportunity to thanks Dr happy so much and my lovely collage who directed me to Dr happy if you have any problem or predicament that is worse or exactly like this you have been into, i plead you to contact Dr happy on happylovespell2@gmail.com you can also view on his blogs site... https://happylovespell2.blogspot.com.ng/ whatsapp/call...+2348133873774

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  19. This type of argument might have been tenable in the 1980's but it's pretty easy to debunk it now.

    Studies shows that police use more violence to subdue Black people than any other race, and this exceissive force tracks perfectly with negative feelings toward Black people. If you are around an American cop as a Black person, some legal scholars have now ruled you are legally allowed to flee for your life.

    And this idea that the news coverage of police violence is biasing the culture is wrong. It is correcting a bias. Although they have "fraternal orders" that resemble unions, cops are not misunderstood workers being eaten by the media machine, they are corrupt and ineffective relics being grandfathered in by a very effective media machine that wants to tell certain kinds of stories about the society we live in. Ever watched a show called COPS where chasing down poor people is lionized as the dirty work necessary to maintain an orderly world? There's no shortage of fitional shows with that agenda either: 24, NCIS, NCIS Los Angeles... Turn off the tube and remember, we're all assholes.

    I live in a very, very heavily policed city: these poor officers get 50% of the budget, the rest is wasted on the few schools that haven't been closed. I recently spent some time with a Black friend of mine going around the whole city. The restaurant clerk was short with him, so was the movie theater attendant. And when we were biking around a cop car almost managed to run him off the road. This was all in the space of a single day.

    But wait, is this representative of America and police?

    Why, yes it is.

    We had to march to end police sexual torture that was an open secret for years and wasn't getting covered. Victim testimony was only published in British newspapers, not American ones. When the local reporters realized they got scoooped, they declared the story "overblown."

    The traditional view of police is that it as their job to order the society through force, the same as a soldier in Vietnam was told to pacify the population, or a Dutch colonist might have to break the spirit of a few of the Black men under his command, a simple matter of immutible laws of nature. We now know in hindsight these were terrible crimes.

    And in fact, we can also demontrate this type of order only reduces crime with a fraction of the effectiveness of groups trained in de-escalation and cognitive psychology.

    This begs the question, why are these ineffective and expensive thugs still around?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hello, I am joy Woods. After being in relationship with my husband for years, he broke up with me. I did everything within my reach to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so badly because of the love I had for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back , I had no choice than to try it. I messaged the spell caster, and he assured me there was no problem and that everything will be okay before three days. He cast the spell and surprisingly on the second day, my husband called me. I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that had happened He wanted me to return to him. He also said he loved me so much. I was so happy and went to him that was how we started living together happily again. The spell casters email is : drlovetemple@gmail.com. You can email him if you need his assistance in your relationship or any other Case.

    1) Love Spells
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    5) Binding Spell.
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    8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
    9) want to satisfy your lover
    Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
    through drlovetemple@gmail.com

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  21. I'm so excited to share this testimony on how i got my ex boyfriend back after a break up. I cant believe it! Dr .Goodluck your love spell casting really worked! My ex-boyfriend ( is now my boyfriend once again) sent me an SMS last Tuesday night, wanting us to get back together again...and here we are! Yes, we are back in each others arms once again. Everything is back to normal but this time our relationship is much more sweeter and much more serious and we are both committed to each other. I just want you guys to know how much I thank Dr .Goodluck! If you have any problem contact him and i guarantee you that he will help you., do not cry anymore, email him at: goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com or Add him up on Whats-app: +2348138654465,you can also visit his website:http://drgoodluck.simplesite.com/

    He can help in Saving Marriage And Stop Divorce
    He can help cure HIV or sickness of any kind
    Help in getting Love back
    Finding your Soul Mate for life
    and so many more.

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  22. Hurray people, something awesome just happened few days ago. My husband who has already divorced me came back.... All special thanks to lovesolutiontemple1@gmail.com, a priest with a difference powers who help me bring back my husband in just few days, he is a great powerful priest, he can grant help in any kind of relationship problem, he is honest and does what he says he will do, he gave me much confident when i met him and speak with him on vidoe, he did bring my husband back home again, PRIEST MANUKA is great ...... lovesolutiontemple1@gmail.com// facebook priest manuka.

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  23. After being in relationship for 3 years,my husband broke up
    with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in
    vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I
    begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I
    explained my problem to someone online and she suggested that I should
    rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring
    him back but I am the type that never believed in spell, I had no
    choice than to try it, I emailed the spell caster, and he told me there
    was no problem that everything will be okay before seven days, that my
    ex will return to me before seven days, he cast the spell and
    surprisingly in the six day, it was around 4pm. My ex called me, I
    was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was
    so sorry for everything that happened, that he wanted me to return to
    him, that he loves me so much. I was so happy and went to him, that
    was how we started living together happily again. Since then, I have
    made promise that anybody I know that have a relationship problem, I
    would be of help to such person by referring him or her to the only
    real and powerful spell caster who helped me with my own problem and
    who is different from all the other ones out there.So friends my advise is if you have such problem you can email him on (drigbololovespell@gmail.com) or whatsapp him with ( +2349065137431 ) THESE ARE THE THINGS DR IGBOLO CAN ALSO DO CURING OF HERPES, GONORRHEA, HIV/AIDS , LOW SPERM COUNT, MENOPAUSE DISEASE, PREGNANCY PROBLEM, SHORT SIGHTEDNESS PROBLEM, STROKE. Sir i am indeed grateful for the help, i will forever recommend my friends to you.

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  24. Effective powerful love spell to get your Ex lover back urgently after breakup/divorce!.
    Hi everyone,
    I'm so excited. My ex-boyfriend is back after a breakup, I’m extremely happy that will are living together again.
    My boyfriend of a 4yr just broke up with me and am 30 weeks pregnant. I have cried myself to sleep most of the nights and don’t seem to concentrate during lectures sometimes I stay awake almost all night thinking about him and start to cry all over again. Because of this I end up not having energy for my next day’s classes, my attendance has dropped and am always in uni and on time. Generally he is a very nice guy, he ended it because he said we were arguing a lot and not getting along. He is right we’ve been arguing during the pregnancy a lot .After the break up I kept ringing him and telling him I will change. I am in love with this guy and he is the best guy I have ever been with. I’m still hurt and in disbelief when he said he didn’t have any romantic feelings towards me anymore that hurt me faster than a lethal syringe. He texts me now and then mainly to check up on how am doing with the pregnancy, he is supportive with it but it’s not fair on me, him texting me as I just want to grieve the pain and not have any stress due to the pregnancy.
    I was really upset and I needed help, so I searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Ahmed can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and I did it then he did a spell for me. 17 hours later, my bf came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my bf are living together happily again...
    All thanks to Dr Ahmed if you have any problem contact Dr Ahmed now and I guarantee you that he will help you. Here’s his contact. Email him at: Ahmedutimate@gmail.com Call/what’s-app him: +2348160153829

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  25. My name is melisa from mexico , my lover is back with the great help from Dr.Akpada he help me cast a spell that brought him back to my arms in just two days. my lover left me with out a formal notification and now he is back, once again I want to thank Dr.Akpada for his wonderful spell, am now a happy woman. you can contact the great spell caster on his email: (akpadatemple@hotmail.com) or watssap +27844130246 thanks to Dr Akpada

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  26. I'm from USA, When I eventually found testimonies about this spell caster Dr iyaryi how he helped many people to get their lovers and broken homes back, i contacted him through his email address (driayaryi2012@hotmail.com) because my boyfriend whom i really love with all my heart and also love me too, but suddenly change and turned his back on me and hated me with passion I was absolutely desperate to get my boyfriend back. Life without my boyfriend was a real mess for me and my parent I wanted a dramatic change and I thought magic could be the solution. After discussing the resolution with Dr ayaryi he gave me hope that he will restore my relationship back because he already engaged me. I felt confident that he will actually make my boyfriend to return home and he did! It’s fantastic what this great spell caster have done for me, his help is priceless! I don't know what I would have done without Dr ayaryi does his job so well he is organized and highly functional, i believe he is the best spell caster i can count on when it comes to all kinds of spell, I was floored that his spells worked, if you need help, contact him (driayaryi2012@hotmail.com) I assure you things will turn around for you.. And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. Iyaryi

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  27. This is a true life experience with Doctor Covenant who helped me save my marriage by doing a pregnancy spell for me. My name is jenny clouds and i from somalia but currently live in manchester . my husband and i have been married for over 6 years. We didn't have any children. My husband was not happy with this because we have tried for many years now to have a child that we thought of adopting but the idea wasn't the best for us. my husband even talked about divorce!! i was scared to loose my husband.3 months after my husband started talking about divorce, i saw a post on facebook which taled about a spell caster on how he helpes people from various problems and his name was Dr Covenant. I sent a mail to him through his email address covenantsolutiontemple@gmail.com, I explained everything to him and he told me not to worry. i was over excited, he comforted me with his words, he told me that we are going to do a pregnancy spell, i was scared but i had no choice. he told me what to do and i did it. he actually did the pregnancy spell, he gave me assurance that i will become pregnant in 2 days, i thought he was joking. this is the 11th month after meeting Dr Covenant, now i have a set of twins, a boy and a girl. God bless you Dr Covenant, thank you for what you have done for me, Please contact and meet Doctor Covenant if you are passing through any difficulty in life like the one i was passing through contact covenantsolutiontemple@gmail.com or call or add him on watsapp on +2349057353987. there are still real people out there helping people. covenantsolutiontemple@gmail.com is one of them.he also help in lottery winning too, if you want to win lottery now also contact him

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