BREAKING: Do insults qualify as "jokes?"

WEDNESDAY, MAY 2, 2018

Missing tampons, but also filled diapers:
The discussion about Michelle Wolf's performance continues to amaze.

We don't know when we've ever seen such full-blown "motivated reasoning." Consider this letter in today's Washington Post:
LETTER TO THE WASHINGTON POST (5/2/18): Until those at the annual White House Correspondents’ Association dinner develop either a sense of humor or an understanding of the role of comedy in a free society, they should just stop inviting comedians to their event.

Watching them sit there stone-faced is almost as tiresome as reading their next-day complaints about the material being too rough, too raunchy, too personal. If they don’t want to be made fun of, they should simply stop hiring people to make fun of them.

J— K—, Silver Spring
We tend to agree that the WHCA should stop hiring comedians. But this writer implies that anyone with a sense of humor would have liked Wolf's performance last Saturday night.

Also, anyone with "an understanding of the role of comedy in a free society!" Wolf was just "making fun of" the press! Anyone can see that!

To his credit, this writer has at least heard people say that Wolf's performance was "too raunchy." It's amazing to see how many of Wolf's absolutist supporters aren't even willing to speak to that claim.

That doesn't (quite) include Mike Pesca at Slate, who fleetingly mentions the claim that Wolf's performance was "off color."

That said, we'd say that Pesca has a very restricted "understanding of the role of comedy in a free society." He goes on and on, in defense of Wolf and other comedians criticized at this event, with this fantasized account of "what comedians are supposed to do:"

"They were doing what comics are supposed to do—they were addressing uncomfortable issues with jokes."

Are comics "supposed to do" that? Well actually, no—they are not. Some comedians "address uncomfortable issues with jokes;" other comedians juggle. Meanwhile, some comedians do one thing in one situation and something different in another, occasionally even displaying what the founders called "a decent respect for the opinions of man [sic] kind."

(To listen to Pesca's commentary, click here, move to 17:00.)

Concerning that decent respect, briefly consider this:

When a comedian appears somewhere for pay, he or she may choose to honor the wishes of the people who have hired him or her with the understanding that they'll be entertained. That said, other comedians may be more full of self-importance and messianic zeal.

Again, Pesca does mention, in passing, the claim that Wolf's remarks were "off color." Over at Vox, Laura McGann wasn't quite able to do that. An apparent true believer, McGann is able to identify "the real reason" why people didn't like Wolf's performance, full stop. It's all summed up in the headlines which sit atop her piece:
The real reason Michelle Wolf is under attack is because her Sarah Sanders jokes are true
Sarah Huckabee Sanders can dish it, but Republicans can’t take it.
There it is, all simple and simple-minded! According to McGann, people who didn't like Wolf's performance didn't like it because she accurately called Sanders a liar.

That's why people didn't approve. And the people who didn't approve were Republicans! It's a simple world!

McGann doesn't mention the possibility that some people thought Wolf was "too raunchy" or "off color." It's all about the fact that heroic Wolf told the truth and The Others love lies.

On balance, we thought Wolf did a poor job that night, although she did have some good jokes. We're always struck by the grasping self-importance of people who use a gig like that as a way to speak "over the heads" of the people whose money they're taking, as a way to build their slippery, slimy careers.

Personally, we think Trump is more of a problem than Sanders. We also think it's foolish and rude to do what Wolf did with Sanders sitting right there that night—and no, we don't think, not at all, that she was "doing her job," another Pesca construct.

Mainly, though, we would ask the true believers to consider the following jokes. Tomorrow, we'll examine a basic question: are these jokes really "jokes" at all?
WOLF (4/28/18): There’s also, of course, Ivanka. She was supposed to be an advocate for women, but it turns out she’s about as helpful to women as an empty box of tampons.

She’s done nothing to satisfy women, so I guess, like father, like daughter. Oh, you don’t think he’s good in bed, come on.

She does clean up nice, though. Ivanka cleans up nice. She’s the Diaper Genie of the administration: on the outside, she looks sleek, but the inside, it’s still full of shit.
Ivanka Trump is full of shit! You know, like a bunch of used diapers!

Are those actual jokes, or are they simply "dick jokes?" Also, to what extent is a "dick joke" really a joke at all?

(Also, how does material like that play from a feminist perspective? From the perspective of a humanist—a lover of the world?)

According to McGann, people who objected to that chunk of Wolf's act did so because they support Ivanka. Around here, Ivanka tends to strike us as a grifter from a family of grifters. But we think that chunk of material was silly and stupid and in bad taste and we think it showed poor judgment, which we're all inclined to have.

"You should have done more research before you got me to do this," Wolf said early on. It's a stock line in such a circumstance, but in this case, we surely agree. In case you hadn't already noticed, the White House Correspondents are often amazingly clueless.

This troubling fact helps explain the gigantic mess we're all in. But so does the type of silly true belief displayed by folk like McGann.

We think Wolf showed poor judgment this night. Meanwhile, is a dick joke really a joke at all? We'll examine that question tomorrow. We'll also ponder a question like this:

To what extent can we humans understand the way the world looks to others? Also, to what extent are we liberals prepared to respect the opinions of humankind?

44 comments:

  1. Somerby seems to have missed the point that this was not a comedic performance but a roast. The purpose of a roast is to make fun of a person while they are sitting there listening. They hear all the jokes at their expense and then it is their turn to speak.

    In this case, the press dishes it out all year and then subjects itself to return treatment one night at its dinner. Comedians are not selected for their entertainment value but for their ability to stick it to the press and other guests in attendance, including the President (most years). When the comedian is too soft on the company, it is considered a flop too.

    This reminds me of the time they hired Judy Tenuta within seeing her act, saw her act and then disinvited her. She said she didn't mind that because it wasn't her kind of gig anyway, but shouldn't someone have seen her perform before they selected her? Wolf too. She is not to everyone's taste and that was knowable before they invited her. Why assume she would tone it down just for them?

    ReplyDelete
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  2. Somerby has never liked off color comedy. That doesn't mean such jokes are not jokes, not comedy, not funny. We do tend to laugh at the things that make us uncomfortable and that is a mainstay of comedic writing -- pick the things people worry about. It isn't just sex. Other jokes are about parenting, dating, appearance. Watch Garry Shandling's recent documentary. All of his humor is motivated by anxiety.

    Wolf is breaking gender norms with her act. Her off-color jokes explicitly cross barriers that female comedians are not supposed to cross, barriers that make men especially feel very uncomfortable. Somerby is right that she has an agenda, but he is wrong in saying that she should not be promoting that agenda in this forum. It would deny everything personal about herself as a comedian. It would be like telling Richard Pryor not to make any jokes about race, because the audience won't like it. Out of respect for the occasion. How well would such a suggestion be received? This is no different.

    Yes, the Republicans are more likely to be traditionalists when it comes to gender roles. That isn't Wolf's fault and it is not her problem either. There are plenty of people on the left who need to loosen up too.

    Somerby perhaps doesn't remember what it was like to listen to Lenny Bruce. Yes, he was very funny, but every word out of his mouth was profanity. And he was persecuted for it. Now he is rightly regarded as an important figure in the history of comedy and many consider him a genius. Wolf may not be a genius but she is working in Bruce's tradition to break down barriers to women that prevent their full participation in the field of comedy and in the rest of life. That is why she is getting so much pushback. It isn't about the jokes.

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    1. The whole thing has been good publicity for her new show. I wonder if that's what her true agenda is. Advancement and fame.

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    2. Why wouldn't anyone with a career want to get ahead? Women do tend to be criticized more for being ambitious.

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    3. @4:33 as opposed to all those other people/comedians working selflessly to exclusively advance truth and justice. Nope, no self interested motives there.

      Does it occur to you that people who want to "make it" as an entertainer, or politician, etc. might be ambitious? Human beings can have multiple motives. All of us. Even people who work with charities may get a feeling of pride or satisfaction in themselves. You shouldn't demand purity.

      Remember when Hillary was criticized for being "ambitious?" As if that isn't part and parcel of anyone seeking high public office.

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    4. "Does it occur to you that people who want to "make it" as an entertainer, or politician, etc. might be ambitious?"

      Yes, of course. Does it occur to you that that is not neccesarily a good thing?

      Maybe her primary objective was to come away with a headline grabbing controversy with lots of pushback and attacks because it's free publicity. More power to her then. It was a publicity stunt which she used to "get ahead" and promote her show. Worked like a charm.

      I know you worked like hell to get Hillary elected and you are still shocked and hurt. It really hurts when something like that happens. I feel for you.

      Have a good week.

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    5. You seem to be pretending to be a mind reader.

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    6. @6:09 it is idiotic to assume that Wolf didn't think of this as a potential career move. That isn't the point. She most likely believed what she said and expressed herself honestly. And because it was uncomfortable to politicians and the media, she is attacked.

      Most comedians are interested in their careers AND try to do material that they believe in. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

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    7. I agree with you that she saw this as a career move and a way to get ahead in order to satisfy her ambition and self interest and her off color, gender norm breaking comedy that is designed to make men very uncomfortable is something she believes in and doing both was a success that will both promote her new show and break down barriers to women that prevent their full participation in life.

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    8. @7:18 You are not agreeing with me, because I said none of that.

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    9. Well, we'll see if she ultimately helps women participate more fully in life. But it was great PR and a successful move for her ambitious career and she does believe her uncomfortable jokes will promote her agenda, as you say.

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    10. Um .yes, actually you did claim all of that.

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    11. I also agree with you that although she is ambitious and self-interested and makes career moves that promote her agenda, that she is definitely not a genius.

      We are in lockstep on that point.

      Delete
  3. But Bob, dear, what did you expect? Their heads exploded a couple of years ago. They are zombies, that's all.

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    1. Mao, what happened???? Were you asleep at the switch?? Four people responded before you did. Not good. But, good play getting the words "dear" and "zombies" in there. No "bots" but two out of three is still good.

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    2. AC, or maybe Mao doesn’t get a paid lunch?

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  4. "Do insults qualify as "jokes?"
    "

    I dunno...ask Don Rickles.

    Gotta love the holier-than-thou judgmental Somerby when he talks about a comedian's "slippery, slimy" career. At least Wolf has a career. Can't say the same for our boy Bob. I'm sure when Somerby was trying to be a comedian he wasn't one bit slimy or slippery. No siree. He had far purer motives than those other "buddies" of his, like Bill Maher and Rosanne, those totally not uncouth or foul-mouthed comics.. right? Or Ms Wolf, who now faces the wrath of the entire right-wing outrage machine, and Bob Somerby is right there to pile on. Too bad his purity didn't lead to success. And even he has admitted the futility of his blogging hobby.

    Somerby is just as uncouth as anyone he criticizes; his whole blog is centered around insults and off-color jokes directed at his favorite targets.

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. The headline of this piece has me puzzled. Bob is a “gentleman” comedian, I suppose, though one of his recent posts mentioned “Chozic’s Hymen Repair,” which I actually found amusing as hell when put into the context of the post. Not a dick joke? Arguable I suppose, in theory.

    So I did a search on Bob’s site for the Steven Colbert WHCD appearance, in order to put Bob’s views on this particular issue into context. Colbert’s was the was the most amazing takedown of the Chimp-in-Chief (who was sitting quite near, like Huckabee) and the complicit media that I’ve ever seen, before or since.

    Colbert was very gentlemanly as he smashed the Chimp and the msm over and over again, in the most gentlemanly way imaginable. But I couldn’t find a word about it on Bob’s site. Now, it may be that the multiple search terms I used just weren’t up to the task, but I wonder: If Wolf’s appearance as a comedian was sanctioned by the powers that be, as 3:33 pointed out, what is his actual beef?

    And why didn’t he at least mention Colbert’s performance? WTF am I missing?

    Leroy

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    1. “For ourselves, we thought Colbert’s performance was weak and unfunny—largely because it was inappropriate. Yes, the Correspondents Dinner is a very tough gig; few performers do well there. But when you sign up to do that gig, you’re signing up as an entertainer. Colbert didn’t contract to give a speech, or to deliver a heart-felt harangue; he contracted to make people laugh. In our view, no, he wasn’t funny—and he wasn’t especially honest. (If you don’t respect an audience enough to want to entertain them, then you don’t have to take on the gig.) For these reasons, we thought Colbert’s performance was hard to watch. After that, it was time for bloggers to say this to readers: Hey, rubes!”

      http://dailyhowler.com/dh050206.shtml

      Unless someone does exactly what BS would do, then they are unfunny, ungrateful, and working against the interests of Liberals. Bob is incoherent in his political philosophy, too much of the time he rails about the Dems or Libs not being effective. Except if they are, then he turns around and writes they are treating us like rubes. Way too often, Bob is full of BS too often to be taken seriously anymore.

      I mean how many times does he badmouth some poor twenty something, usually female reporter, and then end his post on the deep profundity of a song Dylan wrote in his early twenties a half century ago. The man is a bitter hypocrite with some insight now and then. That is all he is at this point.

      Delete
    2. ...I forgot to highlight this part “(If you don’t respect an audience enough to want to entertain them, then you don’t have to take on the gig.)”

      Now replace the word gig with blog. Does Bob respect us? If we have a different opinion about anything he thinks is horrible like Rachel Maddow or Michell Wolfe, we are rubes.

      Bob railed against the media for getting us into the Iraq War and giving us Trump. When Colbert and Wolf point it out to many of the “alien creatures” (his words, not mine) that Bob blamed for those events, he quickly jumps up to point how poorly they did it. Apparently, it is much better to do it from the safety of your keyboard on an increasingly irrelevant and no longer popular blog than have millions of people see it and respond approvingly to your message that the emperor has no clothes or the watchdogs are asleep while the wolves slaughter everything in sight.

      -C’est Moi

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    3. I didn't check the old archive! I have it bookmarked now, stranger, though your patter seems familiar. I share your assessment of Bob's review of Colbert, now that I’ve read his review.

      “Colbert didn’t contract to give a speech, or to deliver a heart-felt harangue; he contracted to make people laugh” Watch the video, and people were laughing their asses off, especially given the venue.

      Colbert was speaking truths to power in a way I hadn’t thought imaginable. It was a masterful monologue, if you will. My heart was literally pounding with emotion when I first saw it. Colbert actually gave me hope in those dark times. Not that they’re any less so today.

      Bob has a great body of work, but yesterday for the first time I saw that, as you said, he seems quite bitter. For him to review Colbert’s routine as “[not) funny” – and “[not] especially honest” is a small window into that bitterness. And I don’t understand it, unless it really is about his apparent lack of success. And I am disheartened. Ah well, tomorrow’s a new day.

      Merci beaucoup, 12:54

      Leroy

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    4. I had to revisit this, my maudlin post, so disheartened was I that Bob didn’t appreciate Colbert (now a well-known D-Defender), because I forgot the entire reason that I wanted to know about his response to Colbert’s performance to begin with. Because Bob is a well-known misogynist to some of his readers.

      But lo! He had the same low views of Colbert as he did of Wolf! Though not definitive, this comparison shows, I think, that the definition of comedy is a matter of Bob’s personal taste. Ditto his views of the msm. He targets women when he thinks they’re incompetent at their assigned tasks..

      Unfortunately, he doesn’t go into why Colbert “wasn’t especially honest.” Maybe it was the reporters he targeted in his satire, who knows?

      Anyway, ours views don’t matter. And I’m fine with that. I don’t care if he doesn’t like the stuff I like. It’s irrelevant to this blog which is, in the end, a personal journal that he shares with others.

      I enjoy his writing and the attendant company enough that I’ll keep reading. Even if I disagree at times.

      Leroy

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  7. While Obama was offering the olive branch to Republicans they were getting ready to take all 3 branches of government and ratchet up hate crimes across the country. Liberals, we need your vote, but please let us fight them for once.

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  8. Speaking of comedy, Dennis Miller promised to
    bone up on Wolf so he could have some great
    insults of her ready to go. He's late, just like Bob
    is with his promised series attacking Mueller.

    ReplyDelete
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  10. Thank you for choosing me as the comedian for the White House Correspondent's Dinner of 2019.

    After last years disaster let me try to make amends by paying tribute to the wit and humor of our President instead of attacking him. For years America has celebrated the wit and wisdom of JFK.
    Let me not push the envelope on wisdom, but certainly there is a lot of wit we can recognize tonight.

    I have to acknowledge, as I look out at all of you...that MY crowd here at WHCD is much, much bigger than the one Michelle Wolf had last year. In fact its the biggest crowd ever. PERIOD!

    First off, anyone in the audience have palsy? Anyone? Anyone have a relative who suffers from it. Come on...it doesn't have to be cerebral palsy or neurological...okay there are a few of you out there. I've been working on this routine a while (Jiggles and flays around for 15 seconds) Pretty good imitation, huh? Hilarious! Not as funny as the President's imitation. But what is!

    Keeping with great Presidential imitations I went to an expensive Chinese restaurant the other night. It was so expensive that when they brought the check I shouted at them in my best Chinese accent: 'We Want Deal! WE WANT DEAL!'

    And how about that daughter? Who can disagree with the President that she is a piece of ass! If my name was Richard Zeckendorf I might have been dating her before Kushner! I would have even taken her furniture shopping and been on her like a bitch! I'd take her right over the table at Raymour and Flannigan!

    Speaking of bitches, Trump called Rosie a fat, disgusting pig...but mocking Sarah Huckerbee's eye shadow was a low blow don't you think? One is a fat, disgusting pig. The other uses the same subtle make up artist who applies Trump's raccoon eyed spray tan. How unfair.

    And wishing a tree would fall on Kellyanne Conway. Completely silly. If a tree fell on Kellyanne she would just keep talking and talking. If Jake Tapper can't get a word in edgewise, how is a tree gonna stop her?

    From what we've heard about over the last few years I look out at this crowd of celebrity TV news people and media executives and must say that American journalism is not sending us their best people. They are rapists and druggies. And some of them are very nice people. As nice as neo-Nazis marching in Charlottesville.

    So let me wrap this up with the one mystery that has hung over the Trump Presidency like a cloud. No, not the meetings with Russians, not collusion, not payments to a porn star or Playboy model. Not even who will be the next contestant forced to march across the White House lawn in exile.

    Its the 'rosebud' of the Trump Administration. The key to unlock the character of our President as one word did for John Foster Kaine:

    COVFEFE!

    ...and good night.

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  11. I personally thought that some of Ms. Wolf's jokes were funny, very funny. I was not offended in the least by the language or subject matter, but I can see how some people would be...

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  12. You are getting to be too old for this, Mr. Somerby.

    ReplyDelete
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  18. Unite And Get Your Ex Girlfriend/Boyfriend Back Urgent Love Spell, I'm Cassie Tiffany from TX, USA...I just found out about my husband cheating on me with a co-worker! We’ve been married going on two years. 2kids. lots of amazing momments together. i want to leave, but i love him so much. all i can think about is how nothing stopped him. how he has to see her everyday because they work together. we are both still young and very attractive. but i want my husband, my friend, and the father of my beautiful children. how do i get past the thought of another woman having my husband? Not my fiancé, not my boyfriend, but my husband! i still love him even though he thinks i want to leave i really want him to do better and stop me before i walk out! my husband told me that he doesn’t feel loved anymore, just because of this co-worker he has be cheating on with me that he wants a divorce, i was devastated, heart broken i begged him to listen to me that we can work it out like we always do, but he didn’t listen, he told me that he met someone that loves and understands him, i begged him to consider our kids but he’s did listen. he left and i was frustrated, i began searching for help and answers, then i heard about a man that can Cast a spell to remind him of all the things we have been through together, at first I was scared then i decided to give it a try, and like magic my husband came back, apology and begging for forgiveness, thanks to this man, I’m posting this to help people with similar issues.Email him now at happylovespell2@gmail.com
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  20. Hello Every One Out Here

    I'm from United States North Bergen(US). I read some testimony about Dr. Iyaryi on how he has helped people in bringing back there ex within 48 hours i was just thinking if that was real,And decided to call a lady who made a testimony and also dropped her number,So i called her and ask her about Dr. Iyaryi she said Dr. Iyaryi is a trustworthy man and he his ready to bring back my lover for me,i was just so happy and a little bit relief that my lover will be back to me soon,Then i decided in contacting Dr. Iyaryi which i did,And before i could share him my problem he has already told me what i came for,And he said everything will be okay within 48 hours that my lover will be back to my arms,So he said he would be casting the spell and that within 48 hours my lover would call me,So i hoped so truly before the 48 hours i got a call from a man who has left me for the past 6 years saying he is sorry and he wants me back,i was happy and i said i also want him back,Then i traveled to Canada to meet him up,And he apologized for what he has done to me now he proposed to marry me and we are both preparing for our wedding soon, All thanks to the great and World best spell caster, Dr. Iyaryi His private mail driayaryi2012@hotmail.com. And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. IyaryI

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  21. HOW TO GET YOUR EX LOVER BACK.
    I want to share my testimony with everyone, my name is Victoria Desmond from USA, after 4 years of marriage with my husband ,he left me for another woman which led me into frustration. I did all i could to get him back but none availed, until an old friend of mine told me about a spell caster Dr.jaja on the internet who helped her in a similar problem, at first i doubted it but I decided to give it a try.I contacted the doctor (jajaspellcastertemple@gmail.com.com) he helped me cast a spell on my
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  23. Am so excited that Dr Ikhine the powerful love spell caster brought my ex lover back to me within 2days after leaving me for the past 6months I was frustrated until I met Dr Ikhine who help me to cast a spell that brought her back and now am so happy and my ex lover has just bought me a brown new car which he has never done before thank you very much Dr Ikhine love spell for what you have done for me contact him on email agbadado@ gmail. com or WhatsApp +2347038832903 and all your problem will be solved once and for all.

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  26. Hello Every One Out Here.

    I'm from USA Dallas. Am writing this great article to appreciate the good work of Dr IyaryI. I have been married for 2 years with pain and agony because my husband left me for another lady. I was reviewing some post on the internet on how i could get back my husband then, i saw a post by Kim Carberry from Canada. who testified of Dr IyaryI the almighty spiritual caster. I contacted Kim Carberry to confirm about Dr IyaryI and she guaranteed me and gave me the courage to contact Dr IyaryI for help. So, i contacted him and he assured me that my days of sorrows are over that i will get back my husband within 24 hours. I did all what he told me and am very happy today that my husband is back to me and we are now living happily like never before and i can boldly and proudly testify to the world that Dr IyaryI is a good and remarkable helper that specializes on different kind of spells. If you need his help, then contact him on E-mail: (driayaryi2012@hotmail.com) And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr IyaryI

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