Biden and Trump were both awful last night!

FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2024

We note one important distinction: Let's repeat something we said in this morning's report.

If you watched last evening's event, you saw the two worst debate performances in modern political history.

That said, there was a difference between the two performances—a basic difference which cuts in favor of Candidate Trump:

Many of President Biden's presentations made little or no apparent sense. That said:

For most people, the depth of President Biden's struggles would have been apparent to the naked eye. 

By way of contrast, to grasp the depth of Candidate Trump's disorder, a viewer would have to be familiar with an array of elementary facts. Consider an early presentation by Trump—and as you do, consider also the silence of CNN's two lambs. 

Below, you see an early Q-and-A. The presentation concerns the mysterious creatures commonly known as tariffs:

TAPPER (6/27/24): You want to impose a 10 percent tariff on all goods coming into the U.S. How will you ensure that that doesn’t drive prices even higher?

TRUMP: It’s not going to drive them higher. It’s just going to cause countries that have been ripping us off for years, like China—and many others, in all fairness to China—it’s going to just force them to pay us a lot of money, reduce our deficit tremendously, and give us a lot of power for other things.

That was Trump's full response concerning the matter of tariffs. Trump continued on from there, changing the subject and making little sense in his new exploration. 

Already, though, he had apparently gone off the rails. He'd gone off the rails in a way which has been explained about three million times—but in a way which millions of viewers almost surely didn't, and don't, understand.

Regarding the nature of tariffs:

When the United States imposes a tariff on Chinese products, that doesn't mean that the Chinese government or some Chinese company pays money to the U.S.  

Instead, the cost of the Chinese product is increased by some designated amount when the product is sold in the United States. It's the American citizen buying the product who coughs up the extra amount. 

In theory, the Chinese government, or the Chinese company involved in the matter, is harmed because fewer items will be sold within the U.S. at the inflated price. 

But the extra money comes out of the pockets of American consumers who choose to buy the goods at the inflated price. In that way, the tariff serves, in effect, as a tax on American citizens. 

China may be hurt by a reduction in sales. But no Chinese entity is "forced to pay us [any] money," as Trump plainly implied.

Trump has been misconstruing tariffs this way for roughly a million years. He makes the misrepresentation on a regular basis. 

We don't know whether he understands the way tariffs actually work. But he constantly makes this mistaken representation—a representation which makes him sound like an "America First"-style hero. 

He's been fact-checked on this matter about a million times. In the case of this AP fact-check, that dates back to August 2019.

He's been fact-checked many times. Despite that fact, we would assume that most viewers of last night's event don't understand the way a tariff actually works.

By the way:

Candidate Trump wasn't fact-checked on this claim last night! CNN's two moderators—Tapper and Bash—simply let the statement go, moving to a new topic.

As you can see, Trump didn't answer Tapper's question, but Tapper let it go. What Trump did say was flatly misleading. Neither Tapper nor Bash made any attempt to clarify what had been said.

Just a guess:

Most people watching the debate don't know how tariffs work. To them, Trump's presentation may have seemed to make perfect sense—but so it goes in this least rational of all possible worlds.

Overall, Trump's presentations last night were full of groaning misstatements of fact. That said, a misstatement of fact may not be visible to the naked eye.

Trump's endless groaners may not have been visible. The president's struggle was.


64 comments:


  1. "Instead, the cost of the Chinese product is increased by some designated amount when the product is sold in the United States. It's the American citizen buying the product who coughs up the extra amount."

    What nonsense. You don't know that, Bob. It's entirely possible, even likely, that, to remain competitive, Chinese companies (or some of them anyway) will reduce their prices, so that the US consumer will pay exactly the same for the product, while the US government will pocket the 10% of it.

    You're not an economist, Bob. You're not a businessman. And Donald Trump is both.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A tariff is a tax paid by the buyer, not the seller.

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    2. @3:34 PM
      Even Bob, despite his dumbed-down by idiotic "fact-checks" understanding, knows that tariff affects the seller: "China may be hurt by a reduction in sales".

      China doesn't want to be hurt by a reduction in sales. Their whole business model is super-mass-production and super-mass-sales. They have over a billion people to employ. And they, most likely, will pay (reduce prices) to avoid any reduction in sales.

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    3. A tariff is a sales tax. If we place a 10% tax on candy sales, do you think the price of candy goes up or down?

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    4. The total price to the consumer, I mean - candy and tax.

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    5. If you place a 10% tax on chocolate produced in Switzerland and 0% tax on identical chocolate produced in the US, then the chocolate factory in Switzerland will reduce its price to match, or beat, the price of the US chocolate. Or it'll move its factory into the US.

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    6. Donald Trump is a "businessman" of dubious distinction. He is not an economist.

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    7. Forget Switzerland. Suppose there are two factories in the US. You place a 10% tax on one of them. Do you think the total price will go up or down, or - as you seem to think - stay at the price of the candy bar that was untaxed?

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    8. Trump said China would pay. That’s false. The buyer pays.

      Delete
    9. @ Anon 4:44
      "then the chocolate factory in Switzerland will reduce its price to match, or beat, the price of the US chocolate"

      You make several unacknowledged assumptions here. First, you assume the price of Swiss chocolate is the same or lower than the price of domestic chocolate; also, that the tarriff will raise the price to something higher than that of domestic chocolate. Further you assume that the manufacturer's existing profit margin is great enough to permit an across-the-board reduction in prices to offset the tarriff.

      None of these assumptions are necessarily valid. Swiss chocolate might be priced higher than domestic chocolate before the tarriffs are enacted. The manufacturer may not reduce prices at all.

      If the current price of imported chocolate is less than the price of domestic chocolate, the tarriff may not raise the price of the import to become higher than the domestic price. The manufacturer may do nothing.

      If the manufacturer decides a price cut is in order, his profit margin may be too small to permit him to match the tarriff without losing money.

      In any event, the tarriff is a tax on consumers and importers, not producers and exporters.

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    10. Get back to us after you read up on how many millions of taxpayer dollars were doled out to American farmers when the Chinese went elsewhere for their products. You don't think that they can play that game? They did.

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    11. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-trumps-tariffs-benefit-american-workers-and-national-security/

      Delete
    12. "did-trumps-tariffs-benefit-american-workers-and-national-security"

      Right, Mr. Soros.

      How odd, however, that decency, empathy and competence oozing Biden admin kept all those tariffs and added more new ones.

      Go figure.

      Delete
    13. Fuck off troll

      Delete
    14. If you don't have the balls to say capitalists are shit and can only say liberal billionaires this and that, you're faking it

      Delete
    15. Concern trolling
      https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

      Delete
    16. Why do you want spend your time in this life being a sassy faggot if you hate liberals so much ?

      Delete
    17. @QiB 7:38 PM
      "You make several unacknowledged assumptions here."

      I made only one perfectly commonsense assumption. Or, rather, I'm pointing out to silliness of Bob's assumption that "the American citizen buying the product who coughs up the extra amount".

      Because the seller facing tariffs is likely, more than likely, to adjust his prices. Prices are not carved in stone; they are calculated and re-calculated by producers based on market conditions, including, obviously, tariffs. This is not rocket science.

      Delete
    18. Be right back ladies I have to go comment on a blog about Greek philosophy applied to economics to defend a man named Donald.

      Delete
    19. @3:52 AM
      Capitalists are good decent persons, Mr. Soros. But I'm kinda partial to one globalist former Nazi-collaborator billionaire specializing in ruining weaker countries.

      Sorry about that.

      Delete
    20. 6:23.
      https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germany/
      What a craven troll you are.

      Delete
    21. Huh. Fine, Mr. Soros, you say weren't a Nazi collaborator, even though I saw your tweet just two years ago denouncing the "siege of Budapest in 1944" as a terrible event. Instead of remembering it as liberation.

      Anyhow: have you not been a currency speculator? A hedge fund owner? A destroyer of multiple countries, pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into subversion activities and destabilizing propaganda?

      You have. Don't be surprised that some people find it repulsive, George.

      Delete
    22. "Anyhow: have you not been a currency speculator? A hedge fund owner? A destroyer of multiple countries, pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into subversion activities and destabilizing propaganda?"

      Who do you think I am, Rupert Murdoch?

      Delete
    23. Make $170 per hour. its very hard to find jobs nowadays. In this situation, you have access to a wealth of resources to help you with your working abilities. Be motivated to promote Thousands of works such as copy paste things through job boards and career ew-30 websites on internet

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      Delete
  2. The debate changed my mind. I was planning to vote for RFK, but will now vote for Biden. He was oozing decency, empathy and competence in the debate! What a man!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He may been oozing something, but very definitively not the three things you listed. lol

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    2. My sarcasm detector is pinging wildly at your comment.

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    3. 3:04: Borrowing our valiant Commander in Chief’s favorite phrase from the debate, “the very idea” that you consider this comment sarcasm is neither good nor decent

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    4. Remember when Somerby used to refer to Trump as the Commander? It made my skin crawl.

      Biden is the only one who cared about women's need for a reasonable and compassionate abortion policy. Biden was the only one who talked about ending the war in Gaza and Ukraine. Biden was the only one who discussed immigration without putting kids in cages and separating them from their parents, as Trump actually did during his term. Biden was the only one who talked about lowering expenses for average families. Biden talked about saving social security and medicare by taxing the rich their fair share, which would mean not changing taxes for those earning <$400K per year.

      Despite being horase, Biden said a lot of important stuff, which Somerby is now ignoring in his haste to show Biden the door. I am still voting for Biden and I expect anyone else who is paying attention will do the same. It is stupid to toss all that compassion onto the trash heap because Biden looks old.

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    5. Biden used "the idea that" 32 times in the debate.

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    6. The horror…

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    7. Somerby used "good and decent" a trillion times this month.

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    8. Funny how all the comments have the same exact snark tone

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  3. Last night may have given the no live audience aspect a bad name, as that is actually a very good idea.

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  4. Quaker in a BasementJune 28, 2024 at 5:19 PM

    Mark down this day as historic. I agree unreservedly with Our Host.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Do you reward a liar with the presidency simply because the audience cannot detect his lies? Will that be good for our country? Somerby should pat himself on the back for furthering the ignorance that he now says enables Trump.

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  6. Here is what Gavin Newsom said about the debate:

    "Folks, Listen.

    I was at the debate last night. I watched it. I tried to keep track of Trump’s lies as it went on and I ran out of paper.

    On the substance, Joe Biden won the debate last night.

    That is what matters to me.

    Don’t look at 30 minutes — Look at the last three-and-a-half years under Joe Biden.

    It's been a master class: 15.6 million jobs created — 8x more than the last 3 Republican presidents combined; gun safety legislation; lowering the cost of prescription drugs; an infrastructure package to rebuild this country.

    Joe Biden has delivered — and we need to deliver for him in this moment — for him, and for Democrats everywhere.

    We're talking about the fate and future of our democracy, this country and the world. They all need us right now.

    That's what I intend to do, and I hope you'll join me."

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  7. Time to introduce some balance into the criticisms of Biden. This comes from The Root:

    "It’s hard to think of one moment during Thursday night’s presidential debate that had the Black community more flummoxed than when former President Donald Trump said that immigrants are taking “Black jobs.”

    Specifically, Trump stated, “The fact is his big kill on the Black people is the millions of people he’s allowed to come in through the border. They’re taking Black jobs now and it could be 18, it could be 19, and even 20 million people. They’re taking Black jobs and they’re taking Hispanic jobs. You haven’t seen it yet. But you’re going to see some something that’s gonna be the worst in our history."

    This faux pas happened despite Trump's recent attempts to woo black voters, all of which seem to have backfired.

    Yes, Biden is old. He was old at the debate and he is older today, and he will be older than that if he is reelected. But Trump is a moron, a liar, a demented bigot and someone who only cares about himself. Biden can get help with the job when he needs it. There is nothing anyone can do to get Trump to listen tor reason, and he is only getting worse. Black people would be crazy to vote for Trump, but so would anyone else. Trump showed who and what he is yesterday -- his thuggish bullying and dishonest were obvious, even if Somerby claims ignorant voters won't recognize it. I give voters more credit than Somerby, apparently.

    Funny responses to Trump's oblivious racist statement are here:

    https://www.theroot.com/black-twitter-hilariously-goes-off-on-former-president-1851566479

    ReplyDelete
  8. Somerby was never going to vote for Biden anyway. Who cares if he now says he is concerned? He's been concern-trolling Dems for decades.

    On the one hand, Trump is a convicted felon, con artist, accused treasonous thief who stole classified documents, adjudicated rapist and all-round horrible guy. On the other hand, a decent and competent president (who saved us from covid and kept the economy on a solid path) screwed up a debate because he was too hoarse to hear and couldn't deal well with Trump's Gish Gallop (look that up if you don't know what it is). Are these two men equivalent in any way? Absolutely not, and there is no other choice but Biden because decent voters don't vote for creeps who do nothing but lie, cheat and steal. That isn't who we are.

    ReplyDelete
  9. David Frum puts the debate into perspective [from Digby's blog]:

    "A word to everybody writing, “The Democrats have nobody to blame but themselves” takes …

    The fundamental reason we’re in this crisis this morning is that the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower, and Reagan is about to nominate for president a dictator-loving criminal against the Constitution. That disgrace and shame is theirs.

    If President Biden had posted an equally poor performance against presumptive GOP nominee Nikki Haley, then in that case yes, the Democrats would have nobody to blame but themselves – too bad for them, but the Constitution would not be in danger.

    The Republicans could have nominated somebody else. They chose Trump over many alternatives. They did it because their core voters like and enjoy Trump. Tell me again, who has nobody to blame but themselves?

    Last night, operating in the truest spirit of “good people on both sides,” a CNN moderator asked President Biden whether he thought that Trump’s voters were voting against democracy. Biden evaded the question, as any vote-seeking candidate would and should and must.

    But the terrible true answer to the moderator’s question is: “Yes.” Trump’s voters are voting to return to power a president who attempted a coup. Whatever their justifications or rationalizations, that’s what they are doing.

    Blame Biden’s vanity and stubbornness all you like. Tut-tut over the Democratic party’s collective action problems if you wish. But the reason we are here is because of Trump and those who vote for him – and those who failed to defend democracy in two impeachment trials.

    As we saw last night, the conventions and habits of mass-market media coverage are inadequate to the crisis at hand. A coup against the constitution – first mentioned at minute 41 of the debate – dwindles to one issue among many, alongside food prices and climate change.

    Biden failed to do his job properly last night. Democrats failed to head off that failure. But the reason the failure matters so much – as it wouldn’t in a Biden-Haley race – is that one of the two great parties is ratifying an attempted coup d’etat. END. "

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The reason this debate performance took everyone by surprise is the cult of Biden suppressed discussion of their own leadership from their own party. Call that what you like but it's not democracy to be told that saying the truth is terrible and going to ruin the country.

      Delete
    2. Good point.
      Do we really want to leave the nomination process in the hands of primary voters?
      If you don't think voters should have any say in who runs the country, the Republican party is working on a solution for you.

      Delete
  10. One thing I noticed about the debate is that Trump's felony convictions played almost no role. Biden mentioned them, and Trump mentioned Hunter's conviction, but my sense was that these were not significant issues.

    Now, it's conceivable that the Biden campaign could make Trump's convictions into a significant issue, but so far they seem not to have successfully done so.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trump was involved in a scheme to reverse the results of an election using fake electors and when that failed initiated an attack on the capitol by felons who he says he has the intention to set free from prison if elected. Sat there and watched violence against the DC police despite the pleadings of his family. This is the human trash that you will be voting for.

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    2. Subhuman trash.

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    3. How can you tell what people consider important while watching a debate with no audience?

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    4. If the trial for J6 had been decided, that would be an issue. The decisions that have come down so far would be career-ending for anyone who isn't Trump.

      For whatever reason, Trump gets a pass for being out on probation.

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    5. unamused - i agree that Trump is not a nice person. OTOH thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead who would still be alive if Trump had won the 2020 election.

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    6. If the trial for J6 had been decided, ...

      Gee, I wonder what is preventing it from going to trial? Any guesses?

      Delete
    7. Right, DIC. We are obliged to agree with your fantasies. Here's something more grounded in substance: the Lancet is a well regarded peer reviewed British medical journal. Comparative study of US statistics vs Europe for Covid deaths lead to the published conclusion in Lancet that 40% of US deaths were excessive and preventable. In a recent interview, Bob Woodward, who was in close contact with Trump during this time period for a book he was writing, said that when approached early on about the seriousness of the threat, Trump completely blew it off, stating it would be over soon. Woodward characterized Trump's handling of the pandemic as catasrophic. So I will take Woodward's eye witness account and a peer reviewed study in Lancet vs your bullshit about what might have happened after an invasion that Trump remarked publicly was pure genius, thank you. You appear to ooze this stuff.

      Delete
    8. Right, DIC. We are obliged to agree with your fantasies. Here's something more grounded in substance: the Lancet is a well regarded peer reviewed British medical journal. Comparative study of US statistics vs Europe for Covid deaths lead to the published conclusion in Lancet that 40% of US deaths were excessive and preventable. In a recent interview, Bob Woodward, who was in close contact with Trump during this time period for a book he was writing, said that when approached early on about the seriousness of the threat, Trump completely blew it off, stating it would be over soon. Woodward characterized Trump's handling of the pandemic as catasrophic. So I will take Woodward's eye witness account and a peer reviewed study in Lancet vs your bullshit about what might have happened after an invasion that Trump remarked publicly was pure genius, thank you. You appear to ooze this stuff.

      Delete
    9. Didn't oozing Joe kill many more Americans? And does well regarded peer reviewed Lancet shyly avoid mentioning it?

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    10. Trump's election team specifically modified the Republican platform to show less support for Ukraine after Zelensky refused to accommodate Trump's quid pro quo requests for dirt on Biden, for which he was impeached. But you have him preventing an invasion, in a war that was ongoing throughout his presidency and in which he withdrew verbal support given in the original platform for Ukraine.
      9:37 is unabashed BS and not worth responding to, as it already has.

      Delete
    11. Trump tried to gaslight a viral pandemic, like it was some common NY Times political reporter.
      Let's face it. Trump is a fucking moron.

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    12. "Trump's election team specifically modified the Republican platform to show less support for Ukraine..."

      And how is that a bad thing? Somehow I don't see oozing Joe's admin "more support for Ukraine" doing any good at all. Unless, of course, you consider piles of corpses a good thing.

      And, again, what about assigning the blame for the majority of the COVID dead, dying in spite of oozing Joe's super-wise handling? What does well regarded peer reviewed Lancet say about it?

      Delete
    13. Sorry that you don't support a sovereign country's fending off an invasion. You were born in the wrong time. Hitler would have loved you, and perhaps visa versa in view of your apparent regard for Putin's activities. You don't need much of a backbone to support democracy over communist fascism.

      I'm not going to re-fact check your other bogus Covid contention as I have already done so. Trump's handling of Covid was pathetic (and don't argue that operation warp speed was so special; Pfizer came to market with a vaccine simultaneous with those getting warp speed money, without any US support). Abetted by right wing media endorsing worthless drugs, his policies resulted in many needless deaths, especially among those foolish enough to opt out of immunization.

      Delete
  11. Martin Mull has died.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just now? I thought he left us some time ago. Farewell anyway, Martin.

      Delete
  12. When I work part-time, I make nearly $15,500 a month. A lot of people on the internet have told me how much money you can make from cards, so I’m still trying to figure it out. In fact, everything became real and completely changed my life. t31 Everyone should try it now, it only works .
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  13. And Bernie Sanders badmouthed Biden after the debate, which shows that he understands nothing about party loyalty or how to support a candidate. And that's why I have never voted for Sanders and would not -- it is important that politicians show solidarity with their party and with the people they represent.

    I respect the people who are sticking with Biden despite this poor debate performance, instead of swaying whichever way the wind blows. Biden is an excellent president and he is capable of giving a fiery rally speech. He showed up with a cold and did poorly against Trump's endless lying and Gish Gallop, but he is not diminished in terms of the qualities that make him a wonderful president.

    "Bonus Quote of the Day
    June 29, 2024 at 7:15 am EDT By Taegan Goddard [Political Wire]

    “I have to also be very honest with you and tell you that I think the president was not terribly articulate to say the least, and he was not focused. He did not defend a very strong record.”

    — Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), quoted by The Hill, on President Biden’s debate performance.

    The president had an excuse for not defending his record, but what is Bernie's excuse? Most Democrats are rallying around Biden, including people like Gavin Newsom who might have placed his own ambitions ahead of Biden's, but hasn't done that. Bernie may be honest (about what everyone can see for themselves), but he is not being helpful in our efforts to defeat Trump.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Bernie Sanders is a Democrat?
    If Bernie Sanders were the candidate there would be no hand wringing about defeating this grifter.
    The tight race is all the doing of the Democratic party and our current president. Who is old and shouldn't have gone to the ticket uncontested. Biden is clearly diminished from 4 years ago, as is Trump, and there is no plotting the mental trajectory of either of these two in the next 4 years. Trump has the disadvantage of being labeled correctly by his appointees of over 4 years ago as incompetent, unlike Biden (40/44 insiders he appointed, +Pence).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Democratic Party should have nominated someone much younger than Biden.
      Then we could blame the tight race on them nominating a person too young and inexperienced, which would be the media's take on the election.

      Delete
    2. Like I said, the overwhelming majority of his hand picked best people, who worked closely with him 4+ years ago have labeled Trump unfit for office, and his mental capacity has clearly been on a downward trajectory during those intervening 4 years. I suppose from your vast personal experience with him that your opinion is to be taken seriously. The Republican party is far more ill than its counterpart because they have selected a candidate so lacking in character and leadership qualities.

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete