TUESDAY, JUNE 18, 2024
How did it get this far? Will President Biden get re-elected this year? No one can say at this point.
If he loses—is Donald J. Trump returns to the White House—what happens after that? Routinely, prophets here in Blue America say "our democracy" would be destined to die, not unlike sacred Troy.
They say our democracy will cease to exist. We can't swear that that's wrong.
When it finally came, the fall of Troy moved well past violent toward vicious. Recently, we posted an excerpt in which the late Bernard Knox summarized those events.
The excerpt comes from Professor Knox's lengthy introduction to Robert Fagles' 1990 translation of the Iliad. As the excerpt begins, Hector has been slain by Achilles—and sacred Troy is thus destined to die.
Hector, the more noble warrior, has been slain by a brute. Knox's portrait of the two civilizations at war in that day mirrors the way we in Blue America tend to picture our two Americas today:
The whole poem has been moving toward this duel between the two champions, but there has never been any doubt about the outcome. The husband and father, the beloved protector of his people, the man who stands for the civilized values of the rich city, its social and religious institutions, will go down to defeat at the hands of this man who has no family, who in a private quarrel has caused the death of many of his own fellow soldiers, who now in a private quarrel thinks only of revenge...And the death of Hector seals the fate of Troy; it will fall to the Achaeans, to become the pattern for all time of the death of a city.
The images of that night assault—the blazing palaces, the blood running in the streets, old Priam butchered at the altar, Cassandra raped in the temple, Hector's baby son thrown from the battlements, his wife Andromache dragged off to slavery—all this, foreshadowed in the Iliad, will be stamped indelibly on the consciousness of the Greeks throughout their history, immortalized in lyric poetry, in tragedy, on temple pediments and painted vases, to reinforce the stern lesson of Homer's presentation of the war: that no civilization, no matter how rich, no matter how refined, can long survive once it loses the power to meet force with equal or superior force.
In the tenth year of their siege, the barbarians finally burst through the gates. Foreshadowing themes from this very year, they exact their revenge on the more civilized society which has been holding them off.
In Blue America, we tend to picture ourselves as the ones with the civilized values. Certain behaviors by certain others will inevitably tend to suggest that this flattering self-portrait may be justified.
Last night, Rachel Maddow played fairly extensive videotape of a modern-day barbarian who is loudly and aggressively perched at the current-day gates.
The person in question is Steve Bannon. Briefly, the tape of Bannon was joined by videotape of Marjorie Taylor Greene, telling Dr. Anthony Fauci that he should be arrested and charged with a giant number of deaths.
As for Bannon, he was shown, in excerpts from various presentations, calling for arrests and deaths after Trump returns to the White House. The videotape includes a speech by Bannon at last weekend's Turning Point Action conference.
Bannon doesn't directly speak for Donald J. Trump at this point. Perhaps for that reason, last weekend's speech largely went unreported.
CNN did publish a full report on Bannon's address. Headline included, the CNN report starts like this:
Bannon vows Trump’s opponents will be prosecuted in a second term
Steve Bannon, a longtime ally of Donald Trump, vowed investigations and prosecutions of those who have probed the former president and his political allies, declaring at a conservative gathering Saturday that Inauguration Day in 2025 will be “accountability day.”
Pointing to Trump’s recent conviction in New York, Bannon told a crowd at Turning Point Action’s “The People’s Convention” in Detroit, hours before Trump was scheduled to speak, that the former president’s allies are going to “get every single receipt.”
“You are going to be investigated, prosecuted and incarcerated,” he said. “This has nothing to do with retribution. It has nothing to do with revenge. Because retribution and revenge might be another order of magnitude. This has to do with justice.”
Bannon was referring to recent comments by Trump vowing to be his supporters’ “retribution” and saying that “sometimes revenge can be justified.”
According to CNN's report, Bannon told the crowd they are the “vanguard of this revolution." "We are not prepared to be governed by criminals,” the former Trump adviser said.
Media Matters posted tape of the way Bannon ended his speech. You can see the video here. That said, here is the gentleman's text:
BANNON (6/15/24): Between now and Election Day they're going to try to take out so many people and that's where it's next man up, its next woman up. Are you prepared to fight? Are you prepared to give it all? Are you prepared to leave it all on the battlefield?
[AUDIENCE ROARS]
I can't hear you! And they can't hear you!
AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
BANNON: Ladies and gentlemen, it's very simple. Victory or death!!
The Achaean invaders exacted revenge. So, it might seem, would Bannon. For ourselves, we'll go with the famous question famously posed in The Godfather:
How did it get this far?
Maddow played extensive tape of this particular "barbarian at the gates." For the record, we don't know what a President Trump will do if he returns to the White House.
That said, an enormous division has come to exist within the realm we call "our democracy." How did it ever get this far?
The answer takes us back at least forty years. In part, it involves the competence, or lack of same, possessed by our journalistic and academic minders, by our corporate "guardians."
Just how sharp are Blue America's "thought leaders"—for example, the ones we see on TV?
Almost everyone will look good compared to a player like Bannon. For now, we're going to leave it right there, with Bannon screaming at the gates and a widespread prophecy producing a bit of an historical rhyme.
Will President Biden get re-elected this year? We may get a clearer reading on that question next Thursday night.
That said, those of us in Blue America are inclined to picture ourselves as the ones who are refined, civilized, like the population which died along with sacred Troy.
In truth, we may be a bit less impressive than we're inclined to think. Tomorrow, we'll try to get our own current rumination back on track.
For today, we'll leave Steve Bannon screaming at the gates. In Blue America, thought leaders continue to say that "our democracy" may be destined to die.
How did it ever get this far? What can we do to stave off defeat?
Those are extremely good questions. Whoever wins the election this year, we'll guess that hard times lie ahead.
Tomorrow: Sexual politics, then and now
The NBA Finals Game 5 was so boring, I was flipping channels. Saw Gutfeld. He started with this joke:
ReplyDeleteThe Republicans beat Democrats 31-11 in the Annual Congressional Baseball game. But the Republicans lost after Democrats found 21 runs at 3am.
Thought it was funny. Rest of the show was about Red and Blue tribal divisions, nothing you won’t hear on MSNBC with accusations flipped. Why is Bob dissing Gutfeld deeply these days?
"Thought it was funny. "
DeleteTherein lies the rub.
11:03's MAGA tears could be funny to some, but it is more sad than funny, that poor lost soul.
Delete
ReplyDeleteHopefully MAGA wins, and the barbarians finally do move to Canada, as they always promise.
"Routinely, prophets here in Blue America say "our democracy" would be destined to die, not unlike sacred Troy."
ReplyDeleteNo one on the left is talking about destiny. That is Somerby's addition and I find it an odd one. On the left we are urging people to get out and vote for Biden in order to prevent Trump from winning. Only assholes like Bill Maher or Michael Moore are saying Trump will inevitably win.
If Trump does win, there is already a resistance in the works. No one is going to roll over for his fascist proposals. But if he does accomplish his announced plans, democracy will die, because he is talking about staying in office a third term, eliminating elections, appointing the military to control civilian actions, and all the things that go along with authoritarian governments with fascist dictators. And he has a bunch of power hungry MAGA supporters to help him do such things. It may be that the democratic majority can stop him, but maybe not. And why should the country be put through such traumatic times?
So, our goal is to vote for Biden. You should too.
Here is a non-fake video that clearly reveals what Trump is like and why no one should vote for him:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2024/06/17/fight-fire-with-fire/
Here is how to defeat Trump, from Tom Sullivan at Hullabaloo:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2024/06/18/time-to-work-the-eye/
Get in the Fight!
Professor Knox does not explain how a large army on a beach outside Troy can feed itself for 10 fucking years or how a walled kingdom can live for 10 years under siege by a surrounding army. In real life, it can't do it. That's another reason why this is FICTION. As fiction, it has nothing to do with those times, and especially nothing to do with today. Somerby's preoccupation with the Iliad is bizarre and suggests mental illness of some kind. That's why no one here is bothering to talk to Somerby about Troy.
ReplyDelete"In Blue America, we tend to picture ourselves as the ones with the civilized values."
ReplyDeleteThere have been several books pointing out that both Red and Blue America have values, but they are different values. We in Blue America do not think of ourselves as the only ones with civilized values. We consider our values important and we think it is more important to work toward our values than those held by the right wing.
It is insulting when Somerby attributes things to us that we have not said and do not think. That Somerby does this routinely suggests that he is not really part of Blue America as he has claimed. His own values are not ours. Whose are they? He is dishonest and will not state his own opinions, but I suspect he is a right winger who laughs up his sleeve because he thinks he is fooling the libs, while doing what he can to advance Trump's interests and put him back in office. As such, he is working against Blue America.
He is giggling over the way he thinks he has built his own Trojan Horse, which we are dragging into our secure castle, except no one here is accepting Somerby at face value any more, except the fanboy trolls, more right wingers. This is a stupid exercise in deceit akin to the fake videos being circulated of Biden and the numerous lies told by Trump and the MAGAts. Whatever values are held by the right, they do not value truth and they have no honor. But we already knew that.
Stephanie Kwolek, the inventor of Kevlar, died ten years ago today.
ReplyDeleteBannon is evil, like Roger Stone and Roy Cohn.
ReplyDeleteMore to the point, the Turning Point Conference has been waving pink flags that say "White Boy Summer". This is a Nazi White Supremacist banner that the right is not only tolerating but promoting. There should be no doubt about what is going on among MAGA supporters.
You don't have to sit by and watch this happening. First, vote for Biden. Second, get in the fight:
https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/18/time-to-work-the-eye/
Steve Bannon is just a random unhinged person. Were you so concerned when your Blue tribe was cheering the burning and pillaging of our cities in 2020 by BLM mobs?
ReplyDelete@11:44 AM
DeleteHe was concerned, as I remember, how all that burning and pillaging looks on TV.
It has been proven that much of the burning and pillaging was done by Proud Boys and similar right wing vigilante groups in order to discredit BLM. The protests themselves were studied and found to be 95% non-violent. Right wingers were arrested in the process of blaming Antifa for their own actions.
DeleteMeanwhile, no one on the left was "cheering" property destruction. However, Somerby was cheering on Kyle Rittenhouse, portraying him as another lost boy (like Tucker Carlson and Gutfeld) who was scared of a mentally ill man and thus shot him and two other people (for no good reason).
Somerby and the Republicans prophesized that Trump would waltz into the White House as a result of protests like the BLM protests; however, what happened was Trump got badly spanked, and by Biden no less.
DeleteWhen you consistently get everything wrong, like 11:44, like Somerby, you lose all credibility, and become irrelevant.
Such a circumstance is not easy to handle, but those folks will have to cope.
anon 12:12 - why make things up? TDH never said trump was going to 'waltz into the whitehouse.", or anything of the kind. He didn't say it then, and he isn't saying it now. He is saying it's possible - which it is. That it has come to this may be because the Blue tribe isn't as smart as it thinks it is - like making things up like you just did.,
DeleteThe buzz about Biden was just as negative in 2020 as now, with Somerby agreeing with Michael Moore and those who said Trump would win easily. You don't like the phrase "waltzing into the white house" but that is what polls were saying. They turned out to be wrong and Biden won more easily than expected. And no, Somerby is not merely saying it is possible, he is saying it is "destined". Just like he did in 2020. @12:12 didn't make anything up.
Delete@1:09 -- Actually Biden was overpredicted to win and the race was closer than expected. Pew says that the polling errors were unrelated to issues (such as BLM): https://www.pewresearch.org/methods/2021/03/02/what-2020s-election-poll-errors-tell-us-about-the-accuracy-of-issue-polling/
DeleteSomerby did predict Trump would win and blamed the blue tribe, just as he has been doing for 2024.
If Somerby didn't use the exact phrase "waltz into the white house", he did predict Trump would win and it would be our fault.
DeleteAC, what do you think Somerby meant when he titled his post “Goodbye Wisconsin!” back in 2020? He meant that Biden was going to lose Wisconsin because of the George Floyd protests. As it turns out, Biden ended up winning Wisconsin.
DeleteProtests are a highly effective way of motivating an electorate, which is why Somerby opposes any and all protests from the blue tribe.
DeleteSomerby prefers a society where elites rule and everyone else is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, happy with the crumbs the elites leave for them.
President Biden is going to have to earn the votes of swing voters in swing states. He has to use his charisma and communication skills to show them how he has genuinely affected their lives and how he proposes to continue to do so.
Delete4:50 wrong.
DeleteBiden only needs to run an anti Trump campaign, Trump is that distasteful.
Biden has a good record to run on, and he should tout it, but most people will be voting for or against Trump.
"Steve Bannon is just a random unhinged person."
DeleteA "random" person who is a former White House advisor and who received a presidential pardon for embezzling a million dollars from a fundraising scheme that claimed to back the former president's border initiatives and who has a podcast that has a vast audience among the former president's supporters and who maintains regular contact with people like Roger Stone.
That "random" guy?
Michael Knowles pulled out and came on Matt Walsh's glasses.
ReplyDeleteBen Shapiro walked in and reacted, based on his dedication to his religion, by stoning them to death.
Ben Shapiro is on the loose, considered armed and dangerous.
Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh have died.
"For the record, we don't know what a President Trump will do if he returns to the White House."
ReplyDeleteSomerby leaves off the unspoken words: "with absolute certainty." These words are always at the ends of such sentences because the rest of the world has a good idea of what Trump will do, with high probability. How do we know? Because we saw what he did last time. We listen to what he has been saying. We have read the 2025 Project plan for Trump's next term. We see what the MAGAs are already doing during this campaign. So, we can and do know with high probability what Trump's second term would be like. He will do a bunch of disastrous things that will damage our nation and only benefit himself and the wealthy, just like last time.
We also know what Biden will do during a second term. More of what he is already doing. And those are good things that help our country and benefit everyday people more than the rich. And yes, Trump and those who are breaking the law will probably go to jail (assuming they are tried and convicted). Because the rule of law will still prevail and apply to everyone, including rich crooks like Trump and his minions.
Somerby is being excessively literal when he insists we cannot know what Trump will do because of fatuous statements like "anything is possible." There is no reason to believe that Trump will suddenly change. There is no reason to believe that should Trump drop dead, his VP won't be as awful as Trump (because he surrounds himself with horrible people). There is no reason to believe that Trump will accidentally do some good in office, because that didn't happen last time, when he was less demented and less self-focused and less bent on revenge. He only deliberately harmed the blue states last time. This time he won't care about anybody, and the next Florida Hurricane will receive no more relief than California did after the town of Paradise was destroyed, or Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria.
That's why you shouldn't trust your future well-being to someone as obviously demented as Trump. It is time to vote for Biden, even if you think he is too old, because he isn't surrounded by Steve Bannons and Mike Johnsons but by capable, competent, well-meaning folks who will keep our country functioning even if Biden drops dead and Kamala Harris takes over.
Don't hand our country over to the religious nuts who think Trump's death would herald a second coming, or who think a religious theocracy would be fun. If you like recreational sex and don't want to be forced to father a quiver-full family of 12 hungry kids, vote for Biden and not Trump.
The right wing has gone crazy but you are perhaps still sane. Vote like it you care about our country. Vote for Biden.
Recently Trump could not properly recall the name of his personal physician and close personal friend, the doctor that administered the dementia test Trump is always bragging about in a weird self-own, the doctor that ran a pill mill at the White House.
ReplyDeleteThis was after Trump met with top CEOs that left the CEOs shellshocked at how incoherent Trump is, and how unfit he is to be president, something Thomas Sowell and even Paul Ryan agree with.
Trump is circling the drain.
Likely Trump also wants to forget about the name of his spiritual advisor, about whom we have recently discovered has a disturbing past involving child grooming, predation, and assault.
DeleteSomerby has a little fun with projection today, saying "we may be a bit less impressive than we're inclined to think".
ReplyDeleteCorrect, Somerby, you are indeed significantly less impressive than you think.
Good on you, Somerby, for recognizing your own limitations, just stop trying to externalize your inabilities onto others, such as the blue tribe; own your nonsense.
"That said, an enormous division has come to exist within the realm we call "our democracy." How did it ever get this far?
ReplyDeleteThe answer takes us back at least forty years. In part, it involves the competence, or lack of same, possessed by our journalistic and academic minders, by our corporate "guardians."
The so-called division is a symptom, not a cause of our present situation. What are some of the causes? Not journalists (whose job is to describe and report, not influence). Not "academic minders" (whose job is not to mind anyone but to create new knowledge and teach the young). Corporate guardians? That is an odd construction because corporations are not guardians either. Perhaps Somerby is referring to the corporate owners of the media, but they are businesses and not "guardians" in any sense.
I am not concerned much about our current division but I am very concerned about the threats to democracy arising from Somerby's and the right's assault on our institutions, including education, the free press, voting, separation of church and state, and a functioning congress. Democracy is our means of dealing with controversy and diverse opinions. I believe there are several main causes of our current situation: (1) interference and meddling by Russia and China (and others such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel) in both elections and government functions, (2) undermining of government by dark money billionaires who wish to avoid regulation and disrupt governance for the public good, (3) corruption by the courts and legislators who accept bribes and work for foreign governments, corporations and billionaires, (4) too many guns in the wrong hands resulting in threats to legitimate officials and functions, stochastic violence encouraged by irresponsible politicians, and random killings of innocent people.
Somerby's oft-stated belief that we should have more homogeneity of thought is also blaming a symptom and not the cause of division. This current situation is a conflict between those who want to remake our democracy for the benefit of the wealthy and powerful, and the people, who want to remain free and participate as voters in a system run for the public good.
Politicians used to share an ideal of themselves as public servants. George H.W. Bush is an example, as was John McCain. Hillary exemplified that ideal but was portrayed falsely as the opposite, someone greedy and self-interested, crooked. There have been some notable Democrats involved in corruption, but it should be obvious to all that Trump and his supporters are grifters and not public servants. Trump didn't even go through the motions of serving as president last time, just as Clarence Thomas barely goes through the motions as a judge, while accepting large bribes. Whatever you believe about the value of Biden's programs and acts as president, he is actively working to improve our country on behalf of voters. That difference is what I see as the primary division in our country.
That makes the choice in this election very clear. We need to vote for someone who is not bought and paid for by the Saudis or Russia, someone who is doing the job and not playing golf or watching TV during "executive time". We need someone with an actual plan for addressing the problems we as citizens face, not someone whose only accomplishment was a massive tax cut for the wealthy, and no idea how to deal with covid.
I am voting for Biden. I believe that if the voters throw out the MAGA infection downballot, our country's functioning will improve and the fringe can go back to being extremists on the outside of our political system. If the corrupt members of the House are out of office, we can go back to passing legislation, working together on issues, and having a government that works. Biden cannot fix that by himself, but we voters can help by examining every name on the ballot and choosing wisely among them. I live in CO, so my priority along with reelecting Biden is to elect someone who is not Lauren Boebert (or anyone like her).
"Tomorrow: Sexual politics, then and now"
ReplyDeleteSomerby keeps promising to talk about sex, a cheap way to attract readers, but he rarely follows through on these teases.
Somerby pretends not to read his comments, but the only discussion of so-called sexual politics has been here, not in his own discussions of the Iliad or Stormy Daniels. Perhaps he will just come back and again proclaim #MeToo over (his own wishful thinking, since women have not stopped complaining about mistreatment and men are still being tried for sex-related crimes).
Somerby has never acknowledged the extent to which sex is related to Trump's loss in 2020 and will be important in this upcoming election. Women shifted from Trump to Biden in 2020, in large enough numbers to make a difference. Trump underperformed his polling, largely because the anger of female voters was not taken into account in polling models. That may still be true, judging by the ongoing underperformance of Trump (with defections to Nikki Haley even though she is no longer running) and overperformance of Biden and downballot Democrats nationwide. Women care about abortion and about contraception because these permit family planning and participation by women in activities outside the home. It is key to women's freedom and ambitions beyond being tradwives.
That Somerby and men in general have been ignoring that major trend (escaping notice in polls) reflects the still second-class role of women in our society, but women vote and that means their influence on the election cannot be set aside. While Trump is busily chasing black and Hispanic votes, he is actively repelling women voters, and they are half the electorate, including among MAGAs. Women may defect from Trump's base in larger numbers than men, without Republicans realizing their importance.
So, yes, let's talk about sexual politics, Somerby.
Nikki Haley! Nikki Haley! Nikki Haley!
DeleteWell she was responsible for security, but she turned down 10k National Guard troops and then destroyed all the information.
Haley does not just wear flip flops, she embodies them, flipping from Trump being "unhinged" and "unfit" to endorsing him.
Something wrong with the water down in SC.
She attracted 15-20% of Trump's support during a series of primaries (and is still doing that despite having stopped her campaign and endorsed Trump). That is a Republican protest vote against Trump. It isn't about Haley, so complaining about what she does is beside the point.
DeleteAgree, it shows weakness in Trump's support.
DeleteLatinos recently voted in a leftist woman for their president.
ReplyDeleteAll that fearmongering about Latinos shifting right was nonsense.
That was in Mexico. Latinos who live in the USA as citizens may be different.
DeleteAnything is possible, but the evidence suggests Biden will get similar support from Latinos as in 2020.
DeleteLatinos have been shifting left worldwide in recent times, there is nothing credible to suggest that is not the case for Latinos in the US (the "fearmongering" 1:14 mentions has long since been debunked).
World wide? Giorgia Meloni is a Latina, too.
DeleteMexico elected a Jewish woman President. When will US do this?
DeleteWhat is this Jewish woman’s policy on Israel/Palestine?
DeleteLeftists having been getting elected in Latin countries on the order of something like 10:1, the few exceptions only prove the shift…unless you’re someone that likes to shitpost and argue in bad faith like the trolls here.
Delete@Anon 4:11
Delete"Giorgia Meloni is a Latina, too."
She isn't.
"Latina" indicates a woman of Latin American ancestry. Meloni is Italian. You may be assuming that the word indicates someone from a country where Latin-derived language is spoken. That is not what the word means.
The comment at 1:32 said "worldwide".
DeletePrime MInister Meloni is from the Italian region of Lazio (called "Latium" in its ancient language, Latin).
You might enjoy this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins
None of that makes her a Latina. Stop yer arsing.
DeleteYou don’t own the word “Latina”.
DeleteMexico elected a Jewish woman President. When will US do this?
DeleteWhat do you want, DiC, a Jewish president, a woman president or a Jewish woman president? Cause we already have an acting Jewish president as your leader Bebe Netanyahu enjoys shitting on our president. Which doesn't seem to bother you one goddamn bit.
Somerby, if he is liberal, fits the category of liberals fearful that Trump may win, as described by Rawstory:
ReplyDelete"The Washington Post has written a lengthy story about liberals who are racked with anxiety by polls showing former President Donald Trump ahead in the 2024 presidential election.
However, some seasoned Democratic operatives tell the Post that they need to chill out a bit.
At the root of the problem is the fact that Trump has survived a wide range of massive scandals — including mocking veterans for their military service, boasting about being able to get away with sexually assaulting women due to his "star" power and praising some of the people who attended the "Unite the Right" rally as "very fine people," not to mention getting indicted in four different jurisdictions while also being convicted on 34 felony counts — that would end the career of any other politician.
But Dan Pfeiffer, former adviser to President Barack Obama, tells the Post that Democrats need to look at Trump's actual electoral record ever since he scored an upset victory over Hillary Clinton in 2016.
"It’s actually not true that he hasn’t faced accountability," explained Pfeiffer. "Every time he has been on the ballot since 2016, literally and figuratively, he has lost."
In fact, Pfeiffer says that falsely portraying Trump as an electoral juggernaut can be psychologically damaging to Democrats' chances of defeating him yet again.
"When we pretend like he can survive anything, it imbues him with strength and gives him political advantage with a lot of people,” he said. “But the reality is, how bad a criminal do you have to be to be one of the most politically connected and richest guys around, and still be convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records? The truth is he’s kind of a clown.”
Pfeiffer is likely correct, the Trump conviction will likely hurt Trump more as time goes by, it upends the notion that he can get away with anything, makes him look like a loser.
DeleteTrump knows this which is why he keeps lying about his crowd size and has started fake waving at crowds that aren't actually there.
Is is possible anyone really thinks Bob “fears” Rrump winning?
DeleteAllowing Reagan to be President, even though he lost both his Presidential elections, was a big mistake by the USA.
ReplyDelete