In search of the highly elusive Birx!

MONDAY, APRIL 27, 2020—

Chuck, Jake crash and burn:
You really have to hand it to this morning's Washington Post.

In this morning's featured report, right at the top of page A1, three journalists start with an insight they claim to have gained from watching Dr. Deborah Birx speaking with Chuck Todd.

Yesterday, Birx was interviewed on Meet the Press, but also on CNN's State of the Union. The public was treated to two of the most god-awful interviews we've ever seen.

The answers were virtually non-existent, but the questions were frequently terrible. Consider the kabuki which resulted from the first things Todd and Birx said.

As you know, we love our old pal Chuck, but his first question wasn't the best. Much more awful was Birx's "reply." The first Q-and-A went like this:
TODD (4/26/20): Let me start with the issue of reopening. And that is, the four states right now that are doing some phase of it, none of these four states are meeting the guidelines that you laid out about ten days ago of what these phased reopenings would look like, what metrics each state should be looking for before they begin this.

This wasn't a mandate. They were guidelines, I grant you that. How concerned are you that we are up to four states not following these federal guidelines?

BIRX: We put out the gating criteria to be very clear about what epidemiologic pieces we thought were critical, what health care delivery pieces we thought were critical, and what surveillance and monitoring pieces were critical. And we still believe strongly that those are the best public health recommendations to every state and every governor to follow.
How concerned is Dr. Birx? Dr. Birx didn't say!

As a matter of fact, she didn't say if she's concerned at all! Chuck decided to give it another try:
TODD (continuing directly): Would you advise any one of these states that have reopened right now, Georgia, South Carolina, Alaska, Oklahoma to be reopening right now?

BIRX: Well, each state is different. And the reason we made the guidelines and gating criteria very specific was also—and I'm sure a lot of people have missed the asterisk that said to look not only statewide, but also county by county. And I have been very struck by how different the outbreaks are from the metro regions, to the rural regions, to the county regions. And that's why we look at things in a very granular way and governors should be doing the same because there are areas of every state that are much more stable and much more spared this epidemic than other areas of states.
Would she advise those states to reopen? Dr. Birx didn't say!

She did say, as she rambled on, that the situations are very different, county by county, in different parts of these states. For that reason, governors should be "look[ing] at things in a very granular way."

That was an interesting, somewhat surprising answer to a question she hadn't been asked. With respect to the question she had been asked, consider the state of Georgia, which has received the most attention among these four reopening states.

In Georgia, Governor Kemp hasn't seemed to look at things in a very granular way. His plan doesn't follow the administration's guidelines, and Kemp specifically said that mayors and other local officials won't be allowed to maintain closures which differ from his statewide decree.

In that sense, the Georgia governor wasn't taking the granular approach Dr. Birx was recommending, but Chuck didn't mention this fact. He did make a somewhat imprecise third try at getting an answer to his general question:
TODD (continuing directly): Are you concerned though that if you have already four states not following the guidelines that you laid out, more states appear to be ready to possibly do that as well, that we end up losing all the ground that we’ve gained over the last six weeks?
For our money, that was the best question Chuck had asked. For one thing, he didn't make a presumption by asking how much Dr. Birx was concerned. In this case, he simply asked if she was concerned at all.

If various states don't follow the guidelines, could we lose the ground we've gained over the past six weeks? Presumably, Chuck was asking if infection rates and death rates might shoot back up or might fail to decline.

Stated clearly, that's a very basic question. Rambling around the countryside, Dr. Birx responded with this:
BIRX (continuing directly): I've had really very good conversations with a series of governors. And they have really been very insightful of how they are looking at this. They understand the risk. And they talk about this not as turning on a light switch, but slowly turning up the dimmer. Very slowly. And each, each—that is why these are in phases. And each phase carries a very specific piece. And to all the American people, please read those phases because it was very clear that if you have preexisting conditions or you're the elderly with preexisting conditions and have risk factors, we strongly recommended that you continue to shelter in place and continue to be protected and continue to follow all the guidelines. And anybody that you interact with, ensure that they're also following the guidelines very carefully.
Is Dr. Birx concerned that we might lose the ground we've gained? Might infection and death rates start going up if states ignore the guidelines?

Dr. Birx didn't say! Instead, she rambled on about how insightful an unspecified number of governors are. Also, we the people should be sure to read the phases, whatever the heck they are.

Meanwhile, but how about the governors who aren't following the guidelines? How concerned is Birx about them?

Chuck had tried to ask three times. Each time, Birx didn't say.

Chuck's next question went like this. By now, the analysts were crying:
TODD (continuing directly): Well, now that actually gets me to my next topic with you, and that is the issue of testing. I’d actually, instead of me asking the question, I'd like to get you to respond to Bill Gates. Here is what he said to a colleague of mine yesterday on the testing issue.

GATES (videotape): Of all the things I am most surprised about the federal government response, the unwillingness to get involved in test prioritization is the most amazing. We have 330 million people and our testing capacity is under 200,000 a day.

TODD: Dr. Birx, I know you have had your own—you’ve worked with the Gates Foundation in the past, so I should set that aside there a second. How would you respond to him?
How would Birx respond to Gates? That sounds like a reasonable question. But what had Gates actually said?

Gates seemed to be saying that we aren't doing sufficient testing. But is that what he actually meant?

The clumsy phrase, "test prioritization," made his comment hard to parse. Meanwhile, a million people have said by now that we aren't doing sufficient testing. If that's what Chuck was asking about, it should have been an amazingly easy question to ask.

Whatever! Chuck proceeded to ask two more questions, three in all, which seemed to be about insufficient testing. Birx's first two responses were long, technocratic and barely coherent. The third Q-and-A in the series went like this:
TODD: So essentially what you’re saying is we don’t have—you don’t think we have the capacity to ramp up the testing you would like because we need this—we basically need a breakthrough for easier testing?

BIRX: No, I think we have other technology that we think can come online within the next two to three weeks. That will be a breakthrough in the RNA-type testing. But I think also, just for ease of use, finding out how we can do antigen-type testing like they do with flu. It can be used as a screening test. And then you could do the actual RNA testing for a confirmatory test. Just allows you to screen large numbers of individuals quickly.
"RNA-type testing?" Is that the "nucleic acid testing" Birx had rambled on about in her (much longer) two previous statements?

Things were getting murky. In her previous statement, Birx had said that "we really need to move into antigen testing" without explaining what that type of testing is, or how it differs from the "nucleic acid testing" she'd already mentioned.

Now we were on to "antigen testing." All in all, Birx's three answers about testing were about as clear as mud.

After that, Chuck asked this:
TODD (continuing directly): The vice president on Friday said that by Memorial Day—in fact, I want to read the quote exactly here—that, by Memorial Day, the epidemic, “I think honestly, if you look at the trends today, that I think by Memorial Day Weekend we'll largely have this coronavirus epidemic behind us." This Memorial Day, 2020? Is that realistic, that it is behind us? Can you explain what he means by that?
"Can you explain what he means by that?" By adding that unnecessary second question, Chuck was practically asking Birx to create a version of Pence's remark which seemed to make good sense.

In fairness, Pence's sunny, perhaps delusional statement was somewhat vague. But the obvious question would have been this:

Do you agree with Pence's statement? Do you believe this pandemic will be largely behind us by the end of May? Full stop!

We don't know what Birx would have said in response to that direct question. Below, you see the bafflegab Chuck's actual question produced:
BIRX: I think he means that in the models and in tracking our actual data—because previously, we were using models based on data from around the world. And now, we are very much tracking every single outbreak in the United States separately. And if you look at those outbreaks over time, and you look at places like Louisiana, if you look at Houston, if you look at Detroit, and you look at how they have reached their peak and come down, and what those cases look like as they come down, it gives us great hope when you project out Boston and Chicago and certainly, the New York Metro which we are all very still focused on. I mean, they still have 45% or so of the entire cases in the United States, and the majority, about 40 to 50% of the mortalities.

So we continue to watch this very closely. But that is where the projections take us. And it is very much based on Detroit, Louisiana and other groups. And then looking at Seattle, that never really reached a peak and has never really had a large outbreak. And trying to understand what we can do as a people to ensure—social distancing will be with us through the summer to really ensure that we protect one another as we move through these phases.
Will the pandemic largely be behind us by the end of May? That seemed to be what Chuck was asking.

Did Dr. Birx answer that question? We have no idea! Heroically, though, the Washington Post took today's lede from that rambling answer.

We'll have social distancing through the summer! That's the absurdly obvious statement around which the Post built its front-page report. "Social distancing could last months, White House coronavirus coordinator says." So the newspaper's online headline says.

The word "through" is somewhat ambiguous there. But that turned out to be the deathless remark which tops the Post's front page.

For all we know, Dr. Birx may be giving sound advice behind the scenes. But as a public explainer, she's a total disaster, a rambling wreck, and has been for some time.

Things went no better on CNN, with Jake Tapper forming the questions. Concerning Chuck and Jake, we would say this:

Neither fellow seemed to know when his questions weren't being answered. If they knew, they weren't prepared to do what a questioner should:

They weren't prepared to start with a cogent question, then simply state the question again if it hasn't been answered. All through yesterday's interviews, the moderators and the doctor seemed to be speaking different languages.

We thought about the later Wittgenstein as we watched. Repeatedly, Chuck and Jake didn't seem to recognize when nothing coherent was being offered in response to their somewhat fuzzy questions. Incoherence from Dr. Birx seemed like a cultural given.

The later Wittgenstein seemed to say that western philosophy, at its highest end, is shot through with such acts of incoherence and incomprehension—with major figures who don't recognize that their own difficult statements make no discernible sense.

The people inq uestion are regarded as giants. But their statements made no sense, and they couldn't tell!

That's what we thought of as we watched. But we have decided to hold those reports for a later day.

Final thought for today: Stalking the wild asparagus was almost certainly easier than attempting to get an actual answer from the highly elusive Birx.


  1. What are we going to do about this? A verified Democratic friend came forward and corroborated the rape story.

    Reade has said that in the spring or summer of 1993, she was told to meet Biden in a semi-private corridor to deliver a duffel bag. There, she said, Biden pushed her up against a wall, reached under her skirt, and penetrated her with his fingers. When she resisted his advances, Reade said, Biden expressed annoyance and said, "Aw man, I heard you liked me." Then, she said, he pointed a finger at her and said, "You're nothing to me." After that, she said, he shook her by the shoulders and said, "You're OK, you're fine," before walking away.

    Prior to the alleged assault, Reade said, she had already complained to her superiors in Biden's office that the way Biden looked at her and touched her made her uncomfortable. She got no response, she said, and after the alleged assault was abruptly relieved of her duties managing interns. She said she later filed a complaint about her treatment — but not the about the assault allegation — with a Senate human resources office.

    LaCasse told Insider that in 1995 or 1996, Reade told her she had been assaulted by Biden. "I remember her saying, here was this person that she was working for and she idolized him," LaCasse said. "And he kind of put her up against a wall. And he put his hand up her skirt and he put his fingers inside her. She felt like she was assaulted, and she really didn't feel there was anything she could do."

    LaCasse said that she remembers Reade getting emotional as she told the story. "She was crying," she said. "She was upset. And the more she talked about it, the more she started crying. I remember saying that she needed to file a police report." LaCasse said she does not recall whether Reade supplied any other details, like the location of the alleged assault or anything Biden may have said.

    Insider has verified, through publicly available records, that Reade and LaCasse were neighbors at a Morro Bay apartment complex in 1995. A review of LaCasse's social media presence shows a long history of anti-Trump sentiments. She has written approvingly of both Biden and his Democratic rival Bernie Sanders on Twitter. In March, she shared a link on Facebook to a story detailing Reade's allegations, with the message, "this is my good friend Tara Reade, who was assaulted by Joe Biden in 1993."

    1. 1. This sounds like a misunderstanding on Biden's part.
      2. He was embarrassed and momentarily angry, then corrected that by telling her he wasn't upset with her (you're fine, he said).
      3. He stopped when she said no.
      4. I agree it was an assault, but Biden seemed to believe it was consensual and stopped immediately when he found out it was not.
      5. We are given no context to understand how Biden might have had that impression. Biden says "Aw man, I heard you liked me." which suggests he thought his actions would be welcome to Reade.

      All of this makes this situation more complex than opponents of Biden wish it to appear.

      I have never liked the way Biden touches women in public and it doesn't surprise me that he would touch women in private, but this is nothing like Trump walking up to a perfect stranger waiting for an elevator and assaulting her, just because he can.

      Trump is so much worse than Biden, in so many ways, that this "lesser of evils" choice is no contest -- Trump must be removed from office and I will vote for almost anyone (except Roger Stone) if it will get Trump out. People who were purists about Hillary gave us Trump in the first place. We have learned that lesson and vote Trump out, no matter what they find out about Biden.

      Republicans who circulate this stuff are hoping to encourage the unenthusiastic Democrats to stay home or go third party. That would be a huge mistake, as we have all learned to our distress with Trump.

    2. 6. Reade is lying.

    3. That would mean that her mother and her friend would also have to be lying.

    4. "4. I agree it was an assault, but Biden seemed to believe it was consensual and stopped immediately when he found out it was not."

      I have to admit I didn't see the "It's good when the rape is stopped after the rape" defense coming.

    5. Her mother was alive when she told Larry King about the rape.

    6. It is a sign of the times that Chris Matthews growling a cornball line to a woman is grave sexual harassment, but digital penetration is an attempt at breaking the ice.

      It’s all a Tom Wolfe novel nowadays.

    7. I believe Ms. Reade. There is plenty of time to replace Biden. Maybe with a woman if anyone can imagine that!

      Lord knows we've all compromised for the lesser of two evils in our voting experience.
      But as a woman raising a daughter, and I would hope I'd feel this way as a man, one thing I am sure I am never going to say is that I voted for a man I believed sexually assaulted a woman who worked for him. I could not face myself in the mirror, not as a feminist or a person.

    8. @3:57
      The woman who called in to Larry King didn’t identify herself or her daughter or the senator in question. She didn’t say anything about rape or sexual assault. Other than that, really good evidence.

    9. Well, @cecelia, I see you have learned exactly zero from Bob Somerby. You just assume the truth of an allegation like this *if it isn’t against Trump.* What a shithead.

    10. Where?

      I don’t know what Biden did or did not do. I made a comment on the Anonymouse3:08 pm post.

      A second woman, who worked with Reade in the 90s just came out and said that Reade had told her of being fired for reporting sexual harassment, though Reade didn’t mention Biden by name.

    11. "How do you know it was her mother who called Larry King?"

      It would be crazy to identify the person as her mother if it was someone else because the "real caller" who happened to live where her mother lived could come forward.

    12. She might have been harassed, but perhaps Biden didn't do the specific finger thing. That is what makes this especially bad. Her mother and friend wouldn't have been witnesses to that and couldn't tell if it was an embellishment or really happened. It is the part that doesn't seem like Biden or any other non-mentally ill man. The rest of it seems like a rejected pass and complaint handled badly by Biden's staff (as most were in that time period).

    13. "doesn't seem like Biden"? Tell me more!

    14. Biden put his finger in it?

    15. Her friends described her as breaking down in tears and her mother would not have been distressed enough to call a TV show over a failed pass. Her brother specifically said she told him at the time Biden grabbed her by the genitals.

      Even after Me Too, it's sad to see what Democrats do to inconvenient women who come forward. If you accuse a Democratic white man, you'd better have videotape of "the finger thing."

    16. Meh. Video wouldn't help, because their zombie media won't play it, and liberal zombies are conditioned to reject every other source of information.

    17. Yes, the media is so unwilling to play such things that it took me all of a whopping 5 seconds to find this report, from CNN itself, with the Larry King episode in question embedded in the report:

      You guys are ridiculous.

    18. You don't have to have a videotape of the accuser. A blue dress with semen on it will work. But ladies, make sure you have something to prove it when you accuse a Democrat man because no one will stand up for you. Even when they believe you.

    19. Meh. Even when you have every proof in the word (as with Bubba the Demigod), zombies will still deny the obvious. That's just what they are.

    20. Anonymouse 8:41pm, you’re ridiculous.

      It took you all of five minutes to find a CNN report on the matter because the freaking Intercept broke the story with video obtained from very likely from the Media Research Center’s archive.

      Until then, CNN didn’t report a thing on its own video that had been referenced by Reade. The rest of the media didn’t bother to look either.

      This should tell you everything you need to know about how much of the outrage factory is based upon any true sense of morality rather than political expediency.

      Get a clue.

    21. Somerby calls this panty sniffing. He doesn't think the media should chase after scandal. He thinks they only do it because it sells newspapers. You are the one who thinks this is a high crime and not a cooked up attempt to attack Biden, much like the attack on his son (which failed because of Trump's own misdeeds). The fact that human beings have sex lives isn't news and it isn't relevant to their fitness for office.

    22. If there already wasn't such a thing as a fainting couch, Cecelia would invent it.

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  2. Dr. Birx has made it abundantly clear that she is not going to publicly criticize any public official -- not Trump, nor Pence, nor any Governor. She was also unwilling to make guesses about the situation at some future point in time.

    The two interviewers should have aimed their questions at clarifying the things Dr. Birx was willing to talk about. E.g, they should have asked her to explain what RNA testing and nucleic acid testing are and how they are used. They should have asked about steps being taken that will lead to a big increase in the number of tests.

    1. The Democrat media is never going to ask any question except "How can this help us hate Orange Man?"

      Everyone should accept that and stop paying any attention to them except to insult them.

    2. Dr. Birx has made it abundantly clear that she is willing to debase herself publicly by fellating Donald J Chickenshit, Acting President, on Fox NOOZ.

    3. I agree they have been doing it.

  3. "We'll have social distancing through the summer! That's the absurdly obvious statement"

    Dear Bob, one thing you need to realize is that you, even though a certified liberal, are not necessarily the smartest person on Earth.

    It might, actually, make perfect sense NOT to do "social distancing", or at least not for everyone, but instead to achieve 'herd immunity'.

    Also, it's not obvious at all that widespread testing is desirable. Japan doesn't do it, and they're fine; better than most.

    1. We are aiming for herd immunity, but it is far less costly to achieve it via immunization than through exposing people indiscriminately to a fatal and damaging health risk. Patience is needed.

      Japan is not fine lately. You aren't keeping up with the stats.

    2. @2:26
      Somerby isn’t taking a position for or against social distancing.

      He says “three journalists start with an insight they claim to have gained from watching Dr. Deborah Birx speaking with Chuck Todd.”, and that Birx was not clear about it at all.

      I am tempted to complain, like deadrat, about your lack of reading comprehension, but I won’t.

    3. Speaking of reading comprehension: dembot, do you understand what "That's the absurdly obvious statement" means?

      And what I was saying @ 2:26 PM is that it's not nearly as "absurdly obvious" as dear Bob (along with the rest of you dembots) might think.

      Well, okay: if we call those vague notions inside your dembot skulls "thinking"...

    4. Where does Somerby advocate for social distancing? He does not. He merely notes the fact that it will be with us, according to Birx, and that that headline in the Post is making an absurdly obvious point from an otherwise rambling, possibly incoherent interview from Birx. He is criticizing the paper for not calling out what he sees as Birx’ incompetence.

    5. Dear mh,
      "We'll have social distancing through the summer! That's the absurdly obvious statement..."

      What is so confusing here? He believes that "social distancing through the summer" is a no-brainer.

      But it's not. Clearly, there's an option to encourage the less vulnerable segments of the population to get infected and thus generate herd immunity. That's all.

      And who said anything about "advocate"?

    6. Less vulnerable members?
      We're a nation of obese diabetics with high blood pressure. Exactly how are we going to segregate the healthy from the less healthy. How many households are multi-generational? How many have a fatty or two, hypertension, asthma, diabetes...etc.
      Too easy to say open up the economy with no real plan for safety. Then there's the inconvenient detail that the virus spreads fast and once the curve steepens it can spin out of control and lots of people will die. Refrigerated trucks and mass graves. Forgot about that, already.
      No need for testing and contact tracing he moo moo.
      Fuck off.

    7. Maybe if your orange God's administration had spent more time, uh you know, administrating.
      Maybe then there would be conditions in place to ease social distancing in a controlled and less damaging way. But now the fucknut could only rave like the fucking shit ag he is and his sycophants and worshippers could only make excuse after excuse. The reopening will be slower and deadlier because of Trump and the GOP.

    8. Your boy is cooked monkey. The world saw him drop the ball.

    9. Hey, Mao, you dipshit: show me ANYTHING that proves there will be ANY immunity.

  4. "Is Dr. Birx concerned that we might lose the ground we've gained? Might infection and death rates start going up if states ignore the guidelines?"

    Somerby says she didn't answer the question, but she did if you understand implication and aren't just looking for a literal yes/no or very concerned/not at all concerned type of answer.

    Dr. Birx said that people who are elderly or have underlying conditions should continue to shelter in place and take all precautions. That recommendation IMPLIES that there will still be virus around for them to catch. It means that there will be cases and deaths after reopening. She said the governors were aware of the risks and she said that vulnerable people should take all precautions, as before. Of course she is saying that the virus will still be here, and she is saying that the governors know it.

    Somerby needs to read between the lines.

  5. Somerby doesn't seem to understand the difference between open-ended and yes/no questions. A reporter who asks a yes/no question, of the type that Somerby frequently laments them not asking, will have difficulty finding suitable quotes and sound bites after the interview. Further, it sounds like they are putting words in their interviewee's mouths.

    Did you feel concern? is a yes/no question. Somerby dislikes it when Birx doesn't answer yes or no to it. How concerned did you feel? is marginally better but it still invites a response like "a lot" or "not very". These answers aren't particularly helpful either. A question like "what are your concerns about...?" or "why aren't you concerned about...?" are open-ended. They allow the interviewee to elaborate and tell more. Unless a reporter knows the answer in advance, use of open-ended questions can elicit much more interesting quotes and areas of exploration with follow-on questions.

    Surveys use yes/no questions and quantifiable questions (how many times did you, how much money did you spend?), because they are easier to code and analyze statistically. Someone conducting an in-depth interview, doing qualitative research, or doing a case study should be using open-ended questions.

    When you are trying to pin something on a political figure, you use a yes/no question. "Did you know your department was skimming funds from the swimming pool project?" Somerby seems to want journalists to play gotcha, but the journalists appear to have other goals for their interviews. If Somerby ever had any journalistic training, he might have different expectations.

  6. Birx isn’t a politician. She has been thrust into a difficult role here. She has to contend with the science (her specialty) and the politics and PR demands coming from Trump and his advisors.

    She also has to tread a fine line with the governors, knowing that some are embracing mitigation efforts and others are not, and that things like social distancing are guidelines, not mandates, from the federal government. Add to that the fact that Trump has been on both sides of the response in Georgia.

    Her attempts at treading that line have been clumsy, no question.

    Perhaps she, rightly or wrongly, doesn’t feel it is her job to demand certain responses from the federal government, given that certain measures, such as lockdowns, come with great economic cost. Perhaps her advice was overruled by the White House.

    Maybe she is just afraid of Trump.

    David Frum recently opined that a person in Birx’ position actually has more power than she may realize in this situation, and that she could get away with defying Trump without getting fired.

    My view is that Birx’ behavior is caused by Trump’s raging sociopathy. Few can oppose it under normal circumstances, but when it is coming from the President of the United States, it’s almost impossible to fight. The ones who supposedly possess the power to fight Trump, GOP Senators for example, refuse to do so, and the House tried, but was thwarted by the GOP and the courts.

    1. She doesn't have to go out of her way to invent bizarre flattering explanations for Trump's ignorant pathological compulsion to insert his medical opinions to satisfy his megalomaniacal mental illness. She doesn't have to do that.

    2. Do you think they've done it, Trump and Birx?

    3. The question is not whether Birx will defy Trump; it's whether Trump will defy Birx. So far, he has not done so. He has accepted every one of her recommendations.

  7. I don't want to go off topic, Bob, but have you noticed that we haven't had a Maureen Dowd column in a while? Also, since Hillary lost, she was down to one column a week. I guess her editors don't want her to get snarky during a pandemic.

  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

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     from FL Usa All Thanks To Dr Aluya Who Brought Back The Love Of My Life. my girlfriend cheated on me and asked for a breakup. I don't believe at first i try to get back with her but all she told me was she’s with someone else. that she is no longer interested in marrying me at that point i was heart broken coz i love my girlfriend so much that i could not let go off her all of a sudden she left me, i really love her and never can imagine my life without her. not until i came across a powerful real spell caster Dr Aluya who promise me 48hours urgent love spell to get back with my girlfriend, good twenty-four {48} hours. hmm-mm, it was a good night time at 11:pm within the days that Dr Aluya told me that my girlfriend will be back, at first i heard the bell rings getting close to my door i heard someone saying honey!!!, it sound familiar i opened the door and i saw my girlfriend standing and weeping in front of me. i was not surprised because its all i have been praying for her to come back home. Guess what 2 weeks after she noticed her system and her body temperature was changed and i took her to clinic for check up and the doctor told me that there is life in her which means she was pregnant i really wants to use this opportunity to thanks Dr Aluya so much and the love page that directed me to Dr Aluya if you have any problem getting your ex back, or predicament that is worse or exactly like this you have been into, contact Dr Aluya on   or Whatsapp/cal  +2348110493039  

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