TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2020
Sunday's unhelpful example(s): On Sunday, the virus of peaceful separation spread to the letters published by the New York Times:
To the Editor:
Thomas L. Friedman has written another brilliant column, outlining the deep, irreconcilable divides in our country. He describes the fear of less educated whites that the country’s population is moving heavily toward people of color and different cultural backgrounds, and that they are being left behind by a skilled technological society that they believe ignores their needs and demeans them. There is also a rural and urban divide. These differences have deeply divided America, exacerbated by the Trump presidency.
A century and a half ago America fought a civil war over issues painfully analogous to these. Perhaps it is time to consider a similar solution, but by peaceful means. The fractionalization of the country is leaving deep scars that will not heal.
Perhaps recognizing this can lead to peaceful separation of the union into red states and blue states acceptable to both sides. The states on each coast could join in a blue union, with a few states in between, perhaps even joining with Canada to unite the geographic separation.
Once again, our own blue tribe will get both coasts. We might even join with Canada!
We're not entirely sure that this will be "acceptable to both sides." For our previous discussion of such implausible cogitation, you can just click here.
Did it make sense to publish this letter? We have no idea. That said, the letter below was comically wrong on several levels. Let's start with what it said:
To the Editor:
Like [Frank] Bruni, I wonder how more than 70 million Americans could have voted for Donald Trump. I understand that many who live away from large, diverse urban areas believe that “elites” look down on them and have strong negative feelings about nonwhites and immigrants. That said, I am baffled as to why his failure to manage Covid and its economic fallout—which must have affected many directly—wasn’t more important in their electoral decisions.
Part of the answer is that many of them do not share the view that, in fact, he did fail. I heard an elderly person in Florida tell an interviewer that she thought Mr. Trump had done all he could about the virus. Yet those of us who read The Times and other mainstream media know that Mr. Trump rejected science-based recommendations. As a result we did worse than every other developed country.
Since the data don’t lie, my assumption is that those facts did not make an impression on Trump voters. Why? Because they get their news and views from sources—Fox and social media—that overwhelm them with “alternative facts.”
To make progress on the many fronts that need attention, this is a problem that must be overcome.
This letter strikes us as comically wrong. We'll take you through several steps:
We agree on one general point. In our view, Donald J. Trump's approach to the pandemic has resided just this side of lunacy from the very beginning. There has never been a perfect way to react to this horrible situation. But the president's public statements have generally been insane.
That said, have we "done worse than every developed country?" Also, do "those of us who read The Times" know such "facts" from reading that newspaper?
Also, "since the data don't lie," is it fair to assume that the letter-writer's factual claims "did not make an impression on Trump voters?"
Comically, the answers are basically no. Things get even dumber when you ponder the link the Times inserted into the letter's text.
Let's start with the basic facts. At present, our "total deaths to date" are not the highest in the developed world after adjusting for size of population.
We do reside near the top on this unfortunate measure. That said, after adjusting for population, the U.K.'s number is slightly worse. Spain and Belgium are still doing considerably worse, with Italy right on our tail.
How about an arguably more salient measure—current "daily or weekly deaths?" On that unfortunate measure, quite a few of our most obvious peer nations are currently doing much worse.
After adjusting for population, European nations which once seemed to have the virus licked are now recording weekly deaths at rates which significantly exceed our own. Canada and Germany are still doing better than we are, but even Germany's weekly death rate has risen to the point where it's more than half of ours.
At present, daily/weekly death rates in Spain, France, Italy and the U.K. substantially exceed our own (see data below). This could always change, of course. But "those of us who read The Times" may not be aware of such facts, especially after reading the letter the Times chose to publish this Sunday.
The self-impressed reader felt fairly sure that "those of us who read The Times" have been getting the full set of relevant facts from that great newspaper. Oddly, when the Times inserted a link into the text of his letter, the link went to a five-week-old, barely coherent report in Bloomberg.
The Bloomberg reporter sourced her fuzzy claims to a JAMA report, to which she didn't link. The Bloomberg report was five weeks old and largely incompetent. For unknown reasons, the Times provided a link to that report, not to its own work.
At present, major peer nations are drowning in Covid deaths. Despite the president's crazy behavior, we are not the worst in the world at the present time. That said, "those of us who read The Times" are often poorly informed, along with reams of The Others.
On the brighter side, we're rarely in doubt about our tribal superiority. In such ways, our failing nation continues to slide toward the sea.
Current weekly deaths: Below, you see Covid death counts from the past week (through November 17). When you adjust for population, our rate in nowhere near the worst in the developed world:
Deaths from Covid in the past week:
United States: 8969France: 4067Italy: 3983United Kingdom: 2909Spain: 1908Germany: 1308
Canada: 463
Rachel almost always forgets to adjust for population. So do the bulk of our "highly educated" upper-end mainstream journalists.
Such is the state of our failing nation's never-ending intellectual dysfunction. It's been like this for years and years, certainly so in the Times.
Somerby should be informed enough to know that this separation talk was not started by "blue state" liberals. It was started as another area of grievance in deep "red states" and deep red areas of "blue states" because of stuff like gay marriage, firearms laws, civil rights, abortion and women's rights.
ReplyDeleteHere in Illinois, there are constant petitions being circulated around "Red" downstate counties to "secede" from Chicago. Various downstate counties have placed such advisory referendums on their ballots, and they almost always pass overwhelmingly.
Also, the NY Times letters section is supposed to give a broad taste of what the readers are thinking, not toe to Somerby's weird way of thinking.
And by the way, the NY Times is not "Our" liberal newspaper. It is a newspaper pure and simple intended to bring a broad range of ideas and information to a wide swath of the country.
There have been similar state-partitioning initiatives on the California ballot, again largely supported by red counties and eccentric Silicon valley millionaires (who want their valley to be its own state). These don't have a chance, but again, the impetus comes from conservatives but issues are a bit more diverse, including fights over water rights, environmental measures, taxes and other restrictions on personal freedom (soft drink sizes, paper bags). Our blue state liberals are pretty happy but, of course, would like to see further progressive measures, and guys like Devin Nunes lose their seats. Our red voters tend to move to Texas when they get too unhappy. That's their form of seceding.
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1. I don't accept Somerby as an arbiter of whether or not some other report is competent or not.
ReplyDelete2. There is a strong similarity between Somerby's self-serving "adjustment" of figures and Trump's desire to throw out votes against him in the past election.
3. The proper authority for how well we have been doing on covid should be the CDC, but that was corrupted by politicization by Trump, another aspect of his mishandling of the pandemic.
4. Somerby thinks that if he calls the figures into question that negates the entire argument the letter writer was making, which he never actually addresses -- did Trump supporters ignore the covid numbers in order to vote for him or were they misled by Fox? The answer is probably yes to both suggestions.
5. These nitpicks that Somerby uses to confuse issues are unhelpful and do not demonstrate any malfeasance on the part of the NY Times or liberal sources. Those who read the NY Times were encouraged to wear masks and social distance and were informed of status of the virus, whereas those watching Fox were encouraged to fraternize, ignore the virus, trust the president's quack remedies, and were generally placed in greater danger. Somerby seems to be refusing to acknowledge that.
“European nations which once seemed to have the virus licked are now recording weekly deaths at rates which significantly exceed our own.”
ReplyDeleteThis is the key to Somerby’s trick.
The European nations are experiencing a second wave. Meanwhile, the first wave in the US never ended.
That is the point made here: (“COVID-19 and Excess All-Cause Mortality in the US and 18 Comparison Countries”
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771841)
“Compared with other countries, the US experienced high COVID-19–associated mortality and excess all-cause mortality into September 2020. After the first peak in early spring, US death rates from COVID-19 and from all causes remained higher than even countries with high COVID-19 mortality.”
“While the US had a lower COVID-19 mortality rate than high-mortality countries during the early spring, after May 10, all 6 high-mortality countries had fewer deaths per 100 000 than the US. For instance, between May 10 and September 19, 2020, Italy’s death rate was 9.1/100 000 while the US’s rate was 36.9/100 000. If the US had comparable death rates with most high-mortality countries beginning May 10, it would have had 44 210 to 104 177 fewer deaths (22%-52%) (Table 1). If the US had comparable death rates beginning June 7, it would have had 28% to 43% fewer reported deaths (as a percentage overall).”
This isn’t confusing, although Somerby pretends that that Bloomberg article, which makes the same point, was.
He also complains that the Bloomberg article is five weeks old. Well, duh. The letter writer is talking about the US response to the virus prior to the election. Obviously, the current values aren’t germane to that discussion.
Also, Somerby doesn’t know what statistics the letter writer had in mind. They may have been different from his chosen ones. Besides, the letter writer is more concerned with the perception of Trump’s response being fed to his supporters than with specific data points.
Well said. The USA never reduced the first wave to near zero like many other advanced countries did. We should expect the same bad response with the second wave.
DeleteWhy hasn't the government (or the media) explained to the American people why we couldn't have had the same success with the first wave that advanced countries like Germany, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, and even Canada had?
When Somerby complains about "Rachel" not adjusting for something, it is actually her staff who he is criticizing. No one here believes that Rachel is doing her own stats these days (although she would no doubt be better at it than Somerby is, having had actual stats training). Steve Benen writes her MaddowBlog and took over Political Animal from Kevin Drum when he went to Mother Jones. He is a solid liberal and 10 times the blogger Somerby is.
ReplyDeleteI agree that death rates should be normalized per population -- but it's not the only marker. Perhaps, death rates should be also normalized per population density, in which case the US and Canada might leap to the top of the list.
ReplyDeletePS: Any letter that refers to anything that Friedman writes as "brilliant" should be discarded out of hand. The man is the dumbest creature to walk this god's green earth.
In terms of goals, the difference between red and blue America is small. Both sides want a clean environment, good education, prosperity, peace, low crime rates, racial equality, etc. The sides differ on what governmental policies will produce these outcomes.
ReplyDeleteAll those things require a fair dosage of...you guessed it: socialism!
DeleteThat's where the two sides differ, Ilya. One side thinks a lot of socialism will help achieve these goals. The other side thinks less socialism will help achieve these goals.
DeleteIf your side favors these things, David, why has it made so little progress toward them in the past 4 years?
DeleteReally? Clean environment is going to be achieved by the companies that brought us collapsing mines, oil and slurry spills? Good education will be brought to us by -- oh, that's right, charter schools, which have been failure on a large scale everywhere.
DeleteI don't disagree that there are different approaches to solving these problems -- don't forget healthcare, by the way -- but I am yet to see a Republican proposal that doesn't begin and end with a tax cut. Although, in the case of healthcare, there was Romney -care, which Obama implemented on the national level. Ever since then, though, Republicans have been tripping over themselves trying to destroy it.
The Orange Turd(tm) had four -- I repeat: four -- years to come up with some semblance of a proposal. Nothing. Of course, we all know that if it doesn't help him in some way, he doesn't give a shit. I am quite certain that we can agree on that, since that's pretty much a simple fact.
Agreeing with Right-wingers is still the best way to defeat their shitty arguments.
DeleteDavid in Cal, have you spoken to your representatives about enacting a 100% Estate Tax Rate, or do you know longer fancy the idea that people should earn what they receive, and not just get hand-outs?
Here's an example of Trump being concerned about clean environment: https://www.npr.org/2020/11/16/935527352/trump-administration-rushes-to-sell-oil-rights-in-arctic-national-wildlife-refug?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR3y0CPEE6RzPtpZccQqwZzrg3EDlH3sy5jmVcwlpo_QdXd2JjLeuu-_oSc
DeleteIf Somerby were any kind of media critic, he would be talking about this, as Kevin Drum does, and not supporting it by routinely quoting and linking to material that is behind a paywall and thus cannot be read or verified without spending money.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/11/is-the-substack-revolution-here-to-stay/
Why does Somerby follow mainstream media in lockstep by insisting that we must keep interviewing Trump voters in order to understand The Other?
ReplyDeleteEric Boelert rightly points out that this is a form of campaigning for Trump by normalizing the people who support him (via Digby):
https://digbysblog.net/2020/11/trump-voters-arent-news/
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ReplyDeleteI just want the whole world to know about this spell caster I met
ReplyDeletetwo weeks ago, wisdomspiritualtemple@gmail.com I cannot say everything he has done for me my wife
left me 3 years ago left with my kids I was going through online
when I meant this wonderful man's testimony online I decided to
give it a try and my wife is back to me now and we ar1e happily
married again cause is too much to put in writing all I can say is
thank you very much am very happy .and does alot of spell
including Love Spell
Death Spell
Money Spell
Power Spell
Success Spell
Sickness Spell
Pregnancy Spell
Marriage Spell
Job Spell
Protection Spell
Lottery Spell
Court Case Spell
Luck Spell etc. In case you need his help contact him on this email
address wisdomspiritualtemple@gmail.com he is a good man
thanks.whatsapp number +234813 648 2342
ReplyDeleteLOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever
LOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever