POTENTIALLY HAPPENING HERE: Might the commander be "mentally ill?"

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2020

And what do such words even mean?: Is it possible that Donald J. Trump will still achieve re-election?

As of this typing, it is. If Candidate Biden ends up winning Pennsylvania, that will give him 273 electoral votes—three more than are needed.

That said, there is no other single state which could push Biden over the top. As a tandem, Arizona nd Nevada would give him 270, the minimum needed—but as of this typing, those states aren't sure things for Biden.

If Biden squeezes out a win in Georgia but loses the other undecided states, the electoral college will end in a 269-269 tie. That way lies disaster.

This exists as the background to the question we decided to review this week. The question(s) we're reviewing are these

Is it possible that Donald J. Trump is (severely) "mentally ill?" Does he have a serious "personality disorder?" And what do such words even mean?

In part, we ask these questions because of the president's niece, Mary L. Trump. 

Mary Trump is a clinical psychologist. Beyond that, she seems to be brighter than the average press corps bear.

This July, she published a mammoth best-seller in which she discussed and described her uncle, the sitting commander in chief.  Based upon personal observation and family lore, she described a childhood experience which became disastrous when her uncle was only two. 

Meanwhile, concerning the adult Trump, Mary Trump wrote this:

MARY TRUMP (page 12): In the last three years, I’ve watched as countless pundits, armchair psychologists and journalists have kept missing the mark, using phrases such as "malignant narcissism" and "narcissistic personality disorder" in an attempt to make sense of Donald’s often bizarre and self-defeating behavior. I have no problem calling Donald a narcissist—he meets all nine criteria as outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)—but the label only gets us so far.

[...]

[Clinical] experiences showed me time and again that diagnosis doesn't exist in a vacuum. Does Donald have other symptoms we aren't aware of? Are there other disorders that might have as much or more explanatory power? Maybe. A case could be made that he also meets the criteria for antisocial personality disorder, which in its most severe forms is generally considered sociopathy but can also refer to chronic criminality, arrogance, and disregard for the rights of others...

The fact is, Donald’s pathologies are so complex and his behaviors so often inexplicable that coming up with an accurate and comprehensive diagnosis would require a full battery of psychological and neuropsychological tests that he’ll never sit for. 

Mary Trump flatly says that Donald Trump's father was a "sociopath;" she suggests that the president may be even worse. But what do such technical terms even mean? And why haven't these claims been discussed within the upper-end press?

To all intents and purposes, the very notion of "mental illness" is a bit of a metaphor, at least within the realm of common understanding. We all understand that a wide array of physical illnesses exist. The notion that something called "mental" illness exists involves a type of comparison, concerning the components of which most people are much less clear.

What does it mean to say that someone's a "sociopath?" What can it possibly mean to say that as many as three percent of adults Americans—perhaps five percent of adult men—can be so diagnosed? (Or are so "afflicted?")

Is it even possible that someone as prominent as Donald J. Trump can be listed among those so afflicted? If so, wouldn't it make obvious sense to see that possibility discussed?

For better or worse, this possibility hasn't been discussed in any serious way within the mainstream press corps. At the start of a recent op-ed column for the Washington Post, Mary Trump provided part of the explanation, dating back many long years:

MARY TRUMP (10/25/20): In 1964, Fact magazine published an unscientific survey asking psychiatrists whether they thought the Republican nominee, Barry Goldwater, was psychologically fit to serve as president of the United States. The problem wasn’t that professionals felt the need to share their views of what they considered Goldwater’s dangerous ideas; [the problem] was the irresponsible and often bizarre analyses that were in some cases based entirely on rank speculation. “Goldwater is basically a paranoid schizophrenic” who “resembles Mao Tse-tung,” one offered. Another said that he “has the same pathological make-up as Hitler, Castro, Stalin and other known schizophrenic leaders.” A third said that “a megalomaniacal, grandiose omnipotence appears to pervade Mr. Goldwater’s personality.”

Embarrassed, the American Psychiatric Association (APA), in reaction to this debacle, established the “Goldwater Rule,” which barred its members from diagnosing public figures. It concluded that “it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion unless he or she has conducted an examination and has been granted proper authorization for such a statement.” 

Oof! According to Mary Trump, showboating psychiatrists offered "irresponsible and often bizarre analyses" of Candidate Goldwater's psychiatric state. 

In Mary Trump's view, these highly-educated professionals had behaved quite badly. In reaction to this behavior, the APA established the so-called "Goldwater Rule," a professional stricture which obtains  to the present day.

In her column, Mary Trump argued that the time has come for the APA to cast this rule aside. Tomorrow, we'll call attention to a major state of affairs which went unmentioned in this essay by this  bright observer.

That said, the mainstream press corps has tended to honor the spirit of the Goldwater Rule. When the spirit has moved the press, the stricture has been observed in the breach. But within the past few years, the unusual conduct of President Trump has brought this rule to the fore.

In the literal sense, the Goldwater Rule applies to the behavior of psychiatrists, not journalists. But journalists have tended to avoid introducing psychiatry into the American political discourse, and in January 2018, the New York Times penned an editorial which seemed to end an emerging discussion of this president's mental health.

Yale psychiatrist Bandy X. Lee had published a collection of essays by major psychiatrists under this title: The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President. 

The book had become a New York Times best-seller. Its authors were working in defiance of the Goldwater Rule.

In January 2018, the prominence of the book produced a response from the New York Times editorial board. In its never-ending wisdom, the board published an editorial under this ill-advised headline: 

     Is Mister Trump Nuts? 

Beneath that absurdly low-IQ headline, a stern editorial sternly claimed that journalists shouldn't discuss such questions. Almost surely as a consequence,  Dr. Lee disappeared beneath the waves, never to be heard from again.

Is it possible that Donald J. Trump actually is (severely) "mentally ill?" 

If "mental illness" actually exists, we'd say it certainly is. . In the abstract, this would seem like a deeply consequential matter—a matter which cries for discussion.

At least in theory, why should this topic be discussed? In part, because we the people may not be skilled at recognizing such disorders and understanding their possible consequences. In a discussion of this topic before Mary Trump's book appeared, Steve Taylor offered this in Psychology Today:

TAYLOR (6/5/20): People with personality disorders such as malignant narcissism can be charming and charismatic. When they become politicians, members of the general public are often taken in by them. The egotism of pathocrats is mistaken for "standing up" for the nation; their impulsiveness is mistaken for decisiveness; their lack of empathy is mistaken for strong-mindedness. Since mental professionals are amongst the small proportion of the population who can detect personality disorders, they surely have a responsibility to share their concerns. When scientists become aware of imminent natural disasters like earthquakes, they have a duty to let us know about them. In the same way, when social scientists such as psychologists become aware of imminent political disasters, they surely also have a duty to alert the public. As Elizabeth Mika puts it, the Goldwater Rule "leads to an absurd situation where those most qualified to opine on the president's obviously compromised mental health and its calamitous effects on America and the world are the least able to do so."

We the people may badly misread the "charismatic" behavior of people afflicted with severe disorders. Indeed, the Food and Drug Administration exists today because we the people have always tended to be taken in by various types of elixir and snake oil salespersons—by the Professor Harold Hills of this world.

Should a discussion of President Trump's mental health have occurred? Sadly, the answer isn't obvious. That brings us to today's key observation:

At the very top of our upper-end press corps, our discourse is comically flawed. It's often hard for people to understand this fact, and this is often true for us liberals above all.

The music men we see on TV rarely know what they're talking about. Meanwhile, the men and women at the top of our most exalted news orgs write editorials with headlines like this:

      Is Mister Trump Nuts?

That board went on to produce an embarrassing reality TV show about the way they decided to endorse two (2) people for the Democratic nomination. Their newspaper has tended to fall for one hoax after another, starting with the deeply consequential "Whitewater" pseudoscandal.

Their crowd was able to believe, or at least to claim for years, that Al Gore said he invented the Internet! These people just aren't super-sharp. We liberals tend to have a hard time spotting this obvious fact.

What would have happened if the Times had tried to discuss Donald Trump's mental health? If the paper had debated the claim that Trump is a sociopath?

Almost surely, a culture war would have broken out. Even if a newspaper like the Times tried to be extremely selective in the commentary it published,  "irresponsible and often bizarre analyses" would soon be flooding the market, offering pseudo-psychiatric analyses of everyone under the sun.

Simple story! Despite the flattering stories we tell ourselves, our national political discourse is extremely primitive. Trump voters may misperceive the behavior of Trump, but we liberals are, in turn, highly skilled at misperceiving these "others."

Often, we're served by our own music men. We can't see through their incompetence and their tribal clowning. 

When the Times decided to stop the discussion of mental health, it meant that readers wouldn't see answers to the questions we've listed. At the same time, it may have saved us from an even stupider discourse war.

What is a "personality disorder?" Where do such syndromes come from?

Is a sociopath morally responsible for his destructive behavior? Or is he in the grip of an "affliction," like someone with a terrible physical illness?

(Do "compulsive liars" know that they're lying, or do they believe their ludicrous claims? If they believe their ludicrous claims, can they be said to be "lying?") 

Our feeble discourse blows right past a wide range of such questions about mental illness. As this happens, we liberals exult in the intellectual brilliance we attribute to ourselves and our kind.

In her recent essay in the Post, Mary Trump went on to say that it's time for the Goldwater Rule to go. We'll discuss her view tomorrow.

In our view, Mary Trump is sharper than the average bear. Tomorrow, though, we'll point to something she didn't mention in her (well-written) essay.

Mary Trump strikes us as insightful, empathetic and sharp. That said, do we the people have anything which even resembles a "public discourse?" To what extent do we self-impressed giants possess a "discourse" at all?

Tomorrow: Our current state of development


36 comments:

  1. Jeez, dear Bob. Your TDS finally did you in, my dear.

    This is the official refutation of the hypothesis of a "thinking liberal".

    ReplyDelete
  2. "but as of this typing, those states aren't sure things for Biden"

    Why is the criterion always "sure thing" instead of "likely"?

    Life is about probabilities, never sure things. Somerby clings to the sure answers in order to sow doubt. It is a tactic. And what is the point of making liberals feel unsure about this outcome? You tell me. Cui bono?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From Josh Marshall at TPM (5 minutes ago):

      "From what I can tell the numbers in Pennsylvania not only point to a Biden win but possibly a relatively comfortable one. If that is true Arizona and Nevada and Georgia don’t matter, though Biden now seems more likely than not to win all three. Again, this is just based on reviewing the analyses of the remaining votes from people I trust."

      Delete
    2. Palmer Report says:

      "– I don’t want to be overly presumptive, but I don’t think Kanye West is going to win."

      Here is a guy who thinks like Somerby...only certainty allowed. He's kidding, too bad Somerby isn't.

      Delete
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  3. "If Biden squeezes out a win in Georgia but loses the other undecided states, the electoral college will end in a 269-269 tie. That way lies disaster."

    Why would Biden win in Georgia but not in any of the other close states? What trend or cause or explanation would there be for such an outcome? There is none. This is Somerby being annoying again.

    Fox News called Arizona for Biden, for a good reason. But it somehow makes Somerby feel good to put that state back in Trump's column. Why? Because Somerby is an asshole.

    Actually, perhaps Somerby wants to talk about Trump's supposed mental illness again, but that wouldn't make sense if Trump were now a lame duck (which he is), so Somerby must revive the possibility of Trump remaining in office so that his own essay will have some relevance.

    It is over, Somerby. Liberals won. Do the right thing and concede. Trump isn't going to pull any miracle out of a hat, not even one of those big fuzzy Russian ones.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anyone who buys Mary Trump's book, thinking that it is an analysis of Donald Trump, will be sadly mistaken. It is about how Fred Trump mistreated her father, how the family colluded to disinherit Mary Trump's mother and herself, the bad behavior of the family at Fred Trump's funeral, and the way her father was cut out of the family business. It is a sad, bitter book that makes the reader feel enormously glad not to live anywhere near inherited wealth. But it is not a book about Donald Trump. He is a peripheral character in a book about her own life.

    Somerby attaches way too much importance to the few paragraphs about Donald Trump that are part of Mary Trump's book. To date, no competent mental health expert has examined Trump. That makes the rest of this as much flim flam as the snakeoil salesmen.

    There will be plenty of retrospective analysis of Trump's flaws once he is gone from office. Personally, I find Trump's lack of education, his overwhelming stupidity, more troubling than his personality. But you'll never hear Somerby bewail that. Why not? You'd think an educator would worry about lack of education at the top. Instead, Somerby spends his time attacking those with expertise, just like the best Trumpies on the planet.

    Doesn't Somerby understand that everything normal people consider to be problematic is considered a virtue by Trump's supporters? These are the people we need to be worrying about -- not that sad old man now stumbling out of office. And the only way to cure Trumpism is education, in my opinion. We once recognized that and built a good public school system, then the Republicans decided it would be more fun to defund the schools and keep the money for themselves. Now we get to see how undereducated people behave.

    ReplyDelete
  5. If the shoe was on the other foot would Biden be crazy for fighting for the election until the very end? No you would be cheering him on as the last hope to get rid of Trump.

    The only craziness is the TDS the elites have had for the last 4 years. Compared to that never ending ranting, Trump seems to be the only sane one.

    BTW, Somerby, still waiting for that war Trump was going to start to win the election...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trump has lost the election. He needs to concede.

      If those lawsuits had actual legal arguments in them, no one would be saying he shouldn't file them. One of the lawsuits demanded that vote-counting stop while Biden was ahead in MI. If the vote counting stopped at that point, Biden would be the winner. How does that make any sense?

      Mr. Trump still has 2-1/2 months to start a war. It won't win him an election, but it might make the liberals cry again. Isn't that what Trump is all about?

      Delete
    2. @10:51

      You are confused. Somerby is on your side.

      Delete
    3. 10:51,
      No mention of Trump's HUGE drone program?

      Is that you, Glenn Greenwald?

      Delete
  6. Bob refers to what he calls "the unusual conduct of President Trump." In fact, Trump's conduct has been reasonable and pretty darn effective. His speech has indeed been unusual. However, his stream-of-consciousness style of speech has served him pretty well. It helped him, get elected President, an incredible achievement, given his lack of experience and his baggage. It's hardly crazy for someone to use a mode of speech that works.

    Bob is displaying a kind of xenophobia: "Trump talks differently than I do, so he must be crazy!"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trump wasn't elected on his own merits. He had help from Russia and Comey (and Bernie to a lesser extent) plus misogyny.

      Reducing Trump's misconduct to only his speech is incorrect. Trump doesn't listen to daily intelligence briefings. He cannot read. He is majorly ignorant about history (both of this nation and the world). He lies about everything, all the time. He is in poor health. He is incompetent. He has rages during which he abuses staff. He is a white supremacist racist bigot. There is nothing reasonable about deliberately adopting a policy of separating children from parents in order to deter lawful asylum-seeking. He is a criminal who routinely ignores laws and norms to engage in self-enrichment. He has committed treason by giving secrets and preferential treatment to our nation's enemies, to the dismay of our national intelligence and diplomatic services. He has had dalliances with porn stars while married. He mishandled covid by ignoring his own scientists and physicians about how to deal with it. He believes conspiracy theories. He was a close friend of Jeffrey Epstein and had a sexual thing for his daughter. He doesn't like dogs and has no pets. He is afraid of stairs, is a germophobe, won't eat anything but cheeseburgers, drives his golf cart onto the greens, and watches TV all day instead of working.

      AND he cannot talk coherently. But that is the least of his problems.

      If YOU cannot see all of this, there is something wrong with YOU, David.

      Delete
    2. Nice.
      11:17 and David in Cal agree.
      Trump is a standard-issue Reagan Republican.

      Delete
  7. It is UnAmerican to be calling for a stop to counting of votes just because the election isn't going Trump's way. All votes must be counted because all citizens have a right to cast their votes and have them count.

    People mailed in their votes because of Covid. They do not want to catch it or are at high risk of getting seriously ill or dying. Many states already had mail-in voting for all citizens. For Trump to interfere with a process that was enacted in order to keep people well, is mentally ill at best and unpatriotic coming from our president.

    Now he seems to think that he can stay in the presidency by throwing out the votes against him. Voting doesn't work that way. No one is going to permit this to happen. Not our courts, not Fox News, not the people (who are already in the streets) -- only the Republican party, guys like Somerby and David in Cal. Trump needs to man up and concede.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Is the Commander mentally ill? Maybe he is just a sore loser!

    "An hour ago Trump tweeted “STOP THE COUNT!” This merely elicited eye rolling among observers, because if the vote counting were stopped nationwide right now, Joe Biden would actually win the Electoral College, thanks to Arizona and Nevada."

    From Palmer Report.

    Just as Trump thought covid would go away if you didn't count the cases, now he thinks he can stay in office if you just don't count the votes. And he thinks that if he whines about it, tweets about it, no doubt rages about it to his staff, he will get what he wants.

    Life is a bitch.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I think Somerby is mentally ill.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "A judge in Chatham County, Georgia, home to the Democrat-leaning city of Savannah, dismissed the Trump campaign's lawsuit during a Thursday morning hearing, according an official in the judge's office." Source: ABC News

    "Video falsely claims possible voter fraud in Detroit. It actually shows a WXYZ photographer loading camera gear.

    Posted at 3:19 AM, Nov 05, 2020 and last updated 5:45 AM, Nov 05, 2020

    (WXYZ) — A video making the rounds on social media and other platforms that claims to show voter fraud and a wagon being loaded outside of the TCF Center in Detroit is actually video of a WXYZ photographer loading his camera and other gear into a wagon for work.

    The video appeared on the website Texas Scorecard, which describes itself as "Relentlessly pro-citizen, unabashedly pro-liberty."

    The website said the video was taken by Kellye SoRelle, a Texas lawyer.

    It was also played on a YouTube show for Steven Crowder, a Conservative media figure. ....................................



    Read more: https://www.wxyz.com/news/video-claiming-to-show-possible-voter-fraud-in-detroit-is-actually-a-wxyz-photographer-loading-camera-gear

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "PA Sec. of State said on CNN that the election could be decided today in PA. I suspect this doesn't mean count every single vote by the end of today (and mail in ballots can in theory arrive until tomorrow), just more than enough for any additional ballots to be irrelevant." Atrios at Eschaton

      Delete
    2. "Michael Georg Link, a German lawmaker who heads an observer mission of the Organization for Security and Cooperation (OSCE) in Europe, told German public broadcaster rbb that there is no evidence to support President Donald Trump’s claims of election fraud." (From Politicus)

      Delete
    3. "President Donald Trump’s campaign suffered a second election lawsuit loss in one day after a Michigan judge rejected a request to stop counting ballots.

      The campaign had sought to send in their own inspectors to oversee the vote count, but Judge Cynthia Stephens mocked the “hearsay” evidence the president’s lawyer claimed she heard from a poll worker, reported Law & Crime." From Rawstory

      Delete
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  12. Of all the things that might have influenced the vote on Trump, his sanity is near the bottom in terms of importance. Professional and amateur psychologists have negligible political influence. People will certainly vote for a crazy man if he tells them what they want to hear.

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  20. I am here to share the wonderful work Dr. Jumba did for me. After 5 years in marriage with my husband with 2 kids, my husband started acting weird and going out with other ladies and showed me cold love, on several occasions he threatens to divorce me if I dare question him about his affair with other ladies, I was totally devastated and confused until a old friend of mine told me about a spell caster on the internet called Dr. Jumba who help people with relationship and marriage problem by the powers of love spells, at first I doubted if such thing ever exists but decided to give it a try, when I contact him, he helped me cast a love spell and within 48hours my husband came back to me and started apologizing, now he has stopped going out with other ladies and his with me for good and for real. Contact this great love spell caster for your relationship or marriage problem to be solved today via email: wiccalovespelltools@gmail.com or text him on whatsapp: +1 (908) 517 4108  WEBSITE:  drjumbaspellhome.wordpress.com    . youtube video : http://www.youtube.com/shorts/ccQRyLMrh64

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  21. Hi guys I'm Franklin , I was disorganized because i had a very small penis, about 2.0 inches soft and 4 inches hard not nice enough to satisfy my woman, i have been in so many relationship, but cut off because of my situation, i have used so many product which doctors prescribe for me, but none could offer me the help i searched for. i saw some few comments on the internet about this herbal doctor called Dr Aziba and decided to contact him on whatsApp with his mobile no (+2348100368288) i saw on the internet, I decided to give his herbal product a try. he gave me some comforting words with his herbal product for Penis Enlargement, Within 1 week of it, i began to feel the enlargement of my penis, " and now it just 3 weeks of using his products my penis is about 9 inches longer, and i had to settle out with my Ex girlfriend, i was surprised when she said that she is satisfied with my sex and i have got a large penis. Am so happy, thanks to Dr Aziba I also learn that Dr Aziba also help with Breast Enlargement Hips and Bums Enlargement, Low Sperm Count, If you are in any situation with a little Penis, weak ejaculation, small breast_hips_bums do get to Dr Aziba contact him now on his mobile no, or add him up on whatsApp (+2348100368288) Email ( Priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail. com )






    Hi guys I'm Franklin , I was disorganized because i had a very small penis, about 2.0 inches soft and 4 inches hard not nice enough to satisfy my woman, i have been in so many relationship, but cut off because of my situation, i have used so many product which doctors prescribe for me, but none could offer me the help i searched for. i saw some few comments on the internet about this herbal doctor called Dr Aziba and decided to contact him on whatsApp with his mobile no (+2348100368288) i saw on the internet, I decided to give his herbal product a try. he gave me some comforting words with his herbal product for Penis Enlargement, Within 1 week of it, i began to feel the enlargement of my penis, " and now it just 3 weeks of using his products my penis is about 9 inches longer, and i had to settle out with my Ex girlfriend, i was surprised when she said that she is satisfied with my sex and i have got a large penis. Am so happy, thanks to Dr Aziba I also learn that Dr Aziba also help with Breast Enlargement Hips and Bums Enlargement, Low Sperm Count, If you are in any situation with a little Penis, weak ejaculation, small breast_hips_bums do get to Dr Aziba contact him now on his mobile no, or add him up on whatsApp (+2348100368288) Email ( Priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail. com )

    ReplyDelete
  22. My name is Joel dwin  am from Texas US. I want to share a testimony of how Dr DADA herbal mixture product saves me from shame and disgrace, my penis was a big problem to me as the size was really so embarrassing,and i was also having weak erection problem. I cant make love to my wife and my penis was just too small, a full grown man like me having 4 inches penis and to worsen it i don't last in sex, i cant even last two minutes it was really a thing of shame to me. My wife was really tired of me because my sex life was very poor,she never enjoyed sex,i was always thinking and searching for solutions everywhere until when i saw a testimony of how Dr.DADA  herbal product have been helping people regarding their sex life, so i decided to give him a try and to my greatest surprise in less than one week of taking the herbs my penis grow to 8 inches i couldn't believe my eyes and as i speak now my penis is now 8 inches and i do not have week erection again. I can make love to my wife longer in bed. And my marriage is now stable,my wife now enjoy me very well in bed. You can contact him via drdadaspellhome7@gmail.com  or Whatsapp him +22367565345

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  23. I just got my wife back through the help of genuine love spell caster dr Odion. Ever since Dr Odion helped me, my wife is very stable, faithful and closer to me than before. You can also contact this spell caster and get your relationship fix. Here his contact, WhatsApp him at:  +234813 648 2342  
    Email him at: wisdomspiritualtemple@gmail.com 

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  24. I just want the whole world to know about this spell caster I met
    two weeks ago, wisdomspiritualtemple@gmail.com I cannot say everything he has done for me my wife
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    when I meant this wonderful man's testimony online I decided to
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    married again cause is too much to put in writing all I can say is
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    including Love Spell
    Death Spell
    Money Spell
    Power Spell
    Success Spell
    Sickness Spell
    Pregnancy Spell
    Marriage Spell
    Job Spell
    Protection Spell
    Lottery Spell
    Court Case Spell
    Luck Spell etc. In case you need his help contact him on this email
    address wisdomspiritualtemple@gmail.com he is a good man
    thanks.whatsapp number +234813 648 2342

    ReplyDelete
  25. Contact DR DADA for Your Penis Enlargement pills which is capable of turning  your sex life from a laughing stock into a paradise. i had my penis grown from 4 inches to 10 inches and my sex life is wonderful contact DR DADA today to get your penis issue fixed he also cures sickness with his herbal medication my Aunt was cured of herpes as a results of DR DADA Herbal medication he cures lots of sickness, HIV/AID, HSV 1&2, CANCER, ASTHMA, HPV, COPD and lots more get in touch with him on today and get what bothering YOU soled mail (drdadaspellhome7@gmail.com) OR WHATAPP +22367565345  

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