ACHAEANS: Although he never won an election...

TUESDAY, MAY 7, 2024

...Agamemnon was the elect: Agamemnon, lord of men, never won an election. As far as we know, there were no elections, as we know them, during the late Bronze Age. 

 Agamemnon, lord of men, never won an election. Clearly, though, Agamemnon was the elect.

In the following passage, the leading authority on the fictional figure explains the source of his status:

Sceptre

A sceptre (or scepter in American English) is a staff or wand held in the hand by a ruling monarch as an item of royal or imperial insignia, signifying sovereign authority.

[...]

Among the early Greeks, the sceptre was a long staff, such as Agamemnon wielded (Iliad, i) or was used by respected elders, and came to be used by judges, military leaders, priests, and others in authority. It is represented on painted vases as a long staff tipped with a metal ornament. When the sceptre is borne by Zeus or Hades, it is headed by a bird. 

It was this symbol of Zeus, the king of the gods and ruler of Olympus, that gave their inviolable status to the kerykes, the heralds, who were thus protected by the precursor of modern diplomatic immunity. When, in the Iliad, Agamemnon sends Odysseus to parley with the leaders of the Achaeans, he lends him his sceptre.

We're puzzled by several parts of that account. That includes its description of Agamemnon wielding a scepter in Book One of the Iliad. 

In Book One, it's actually the enraged Achilles who "swears a mighty oath" upon a "scepter studded bright with golden nails." After swearing his mighty oath, he then "dashes it to the ground." 

Within the Robert Fagles translation, Agamemnon isn't shown wielding a scepter until we reach Book Two. In Book One, it's Achilles who is wielding a scepter during a furious meeting of Argive chieftains. 

Argive chieftains weren't reluctant to state their views during these nighttime councils. In an end note regarding that passage in question, Fagles distinguishes between two different types of scepter:

1.273 This scepter. The scepter [held by Achilles] is passed by the heralds to anyone in the assembly who wishes to speak—while he holds it, he has the floor. It is a symbol of royal and divine authority, and also stands for the rule of law and due process in the community. 

It is not the same as Agamemnon's own royal scepter (2.118-26), which has come down to him from Zeus through several generations of Argive kings.

According to Professor Fagles, Achilles was wielding the type of scepter which allowed a chieftain to speak during an Argive assembly. 

As noted, Achilles is savaging Agamemnon, lord of men, during this part of the meeting. By the norms of the day, Agamemnon's exalted status doesn't exempt him from the most remarkable types of criticism, even within the tribe.

As for Agamemnon, he wielded a different type of scepter; he wielded a royal scepter. Agememnon's scepter has come down to him through several generations of kings, but it originated with Zeus himself.

In this way, Agamemnon was seen to stand in a line of authority stretching directly back to the most powerful of the Olympian gods. Early in Book Two, the poem describes Agamemnon (AKA "Atrides") rousing himself from a dream, then striding forward to exercise his authority:

But rousing himself from sleep, the divine voice
swirling round him, Atrides sat up, bolt awake,
pulled on a soft tunic, linen never worn,
and over it threw his flaring battle-cape,
under his smooth feet he fastened supple sandals,
across his shoulder slung his silver-studded sword.
Then he seized the royal scepter of his fathers—
its power can never die
—and grasping it tightly
off he strode to the ships of Argives armed in bronze.

The power of Agamemnon's royal scepter could never die. Later in Book Two, the line of descent of the royal scepter is explicitly described:

King Agamemnon
rose to his feet, raising high in hand the scepter
Hephaestus made with all his strength and skill.

Hephaestus gave it to Cronus' son, Father Zeus
and Zeus gave it to Hermes, the giant-killing Guide
and Hermes gave it to Pelops. that fine charioteer,
Pelops gave it to Atreus, marshal of fighting men,
who died and passed it on to Thyestes rich in flocks
and he in turn bestowed it on Agamemnon, to bear on high
as he ruled his many islands and lorded mainland Argos.
Now, leaning his weight upon that kingly scepter
Atrides declared his will to all Achaea's armies
...

The scepter had been fashioned by Hephaestus, one of the Olympian gods. Hephaestus had given it to Zeus. Eventually, the scepter had been handed down to Agamemnon himself.

As Agamemnon declares his will in this instance, he is having one of his various breakdowns. Later, in Book Nine, as Agamemnon melts down again, a trusted elder reassures the lord of men about his state of election:

Nestor was first to speak—from the early days
his plans and tactics always seemed the best.
With good will to the chiefs he rose and spoke,
"Great marshal Atrides, lord of men Agamemnon—
with you I will end, my King, with you I will begin,
since you hold sway over many warriors, vast armies,
and Zeus has placed in your hands the royal scepter
and time-honored laws, so you will advise them well."

As we've noted in the past, madness was constantly gripping Agamemnon. Nestor, offering sound advice, reminds him of the role assigned to him by Zeus. 

In essence, this is the divine right of kings, built upon the deference shown to those whose authority came to them from the gods. 

In theory, we regard such thinking as silly today. That said, dating back to the dawn of the west, it has been the norm for us the humans to bow to the divine right of kings. 

This kind of deference is bred in the born. It adopts various forms.

In our modern political context, we citizens of Bue America are inclined to ridicule members of Red America for building a cult around Candidate Trump—for deferring to him as if he carried divine authority. 

In fairness, this pattern is deeply bred in the bone—and obvious elements of this impulse are observable within our own Blue America, though elements of our own behavior may be invisible to us. 

In our current two Americas, we Blues tend to mock voters in Red America for deferring to the divine right of Trump. But we Blues segregate ourselves within our own tribal circles, and the Achaeans were ready to challenge Agamemnon n a way which never occurs when "our favorite reporters and friends" gather on our corporate "cable news" channel to tell us the stories we like to hear and to mock the cult which we can see—the cult which is operating Over There, among the Others.

At present, leadership cadres of Red America are routinely an undisguised, astonishing mess. That said, those of us in Blue America tend to fall in line behind our own leadership cadres in ways which make the Argive leaders seem like free-thinking iconoclasts.

We repeat the embellished claims our leadership cadres invent. We talk about locking the other guy up—and as we'll note this afternoon, we often seem to care about little or nothing else.

The leadership cadres of Red America are routinely (not always) an undisguised mess. But those of us in Blue America may not always see ourselves as we actually are. Is it possible that we can learn to see ourselves more clearly through a trip back in time to the western world's first poem of war?

Consider our current embarrassing state:

We want to send the other guy to jail because he allegedly hid the fact that he allegedly had (fully consensual) sex on one occasion with a woman who wasn't his wife! And yet we love our own Dear Jack—we continue to love him so dearly!

When a population loses its way that badly, it might be time to journey back to the dawn of the west and make an effort to figure out how we reached this embarrassing point.

Will a look at the Iliad help us see ourselves more clearly? The odds of that are very slight. But what else is left to try?

Agamemnon never won an election! It seems to us that we should be embarrassed, chastened in a good-natured way, by the way we the Blues are now approaching ours.

Tomorrow: Then and now, sources of rage

This afternoon: Hannah Dreier's Pulitzer prize


98 comments:

  1. Oof.

    Somerby's *supposed* ignorance on full display today.

    He says: "This kind of deference is bred in the born."

    This is false, he is referring to a personality trait, servility to authoritarians, that is not innate to humans, but in fact is emergent and relatively recently so, this is well established by the science. This is what happens when you rely on storytelling to understand human nature.

    Then Somerby conflates seeking justice with mocking; the blue tribe tends to not mock, this is more in line with what the red tribe does. Indeed, Trump's rallies are little more than an attempt to bully-mock the blue tribe. Trump having to face the consequences of his corrupt and illegal behavior, is not a form of mocking, and is a repudiation of authoritarianism.

    Falsely, and weakly, Somerby claims Trump's current trial is about a one time consensual affair; however, in reality the trial is about Trump covering up multiple affairs by falsifying business records that were in furtherance of election interference, tax evasion, and campaign finance fraud.

    It is doubtful that Somerby is this ignorant, more likely he is attempting to manufacture ignorance.

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    1. They’re all yours, Bob!

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    2. "we citizens of Blue America are inclined to ridicule members of Red America for building a cult around Candidate Trump—for deferring to him as if he carried divine authority." You lost me. So you're saying we shouldn't do that? If any human behavior is deserving of ridicule, surely singing the praises of Donald fucking Trump is.

      "Is it possible that we can learn to see ourselves more clearly through a trip back in time to the western world's first poem of war?" Maybe. If you could actually, you know, draw some actual parallels . . . beyond "there are two opposing tribes."

      "The leadership cadres of Red America are routinely (not always) an undisguised mess. But those of us in Blue America..."  Ah, yes -- the old "both sides" routine. Didn't Bob used to take the media to task for forcing this construct on everything they wrote, even when both sides were nowhere near the same? And now the difference between Reds and Blues is even greater, with the Reds following a very sick man into increasingly extreme and dangerous territory, no matter what he says or does. But Bob is both-sides-ing even now, as we inch closer to tyranny.

      "We want to send the other guy to jail because he allegedly hid the fact that he allegedly had (fully consensual) sex on one occasion with a woman who wasn't his wife!" Does BS actually believe his own BS? Surely Bob knows why most of us would be relieved to see Trump jailed, and to be honest it has very little to do with anything related to this trial. For starters, Trump tried to steal the 2020 election, culminating in his inciting an angry mob that attacked the capital as he sat and did nothing to stop it for 3 hours. He was impeached twice, but was protected both times from conviction in a purely partisan/political stunt by Republicans in Congress. Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

      "And yet we love our own Dear Jack—we continue to love him so dearly!" Maybe some older "Blues" do. That was before my (and many other Blues') time. However, as far as I know, Dear Jack wasn't a sick, sadistic tyrant, who incited a violent attack on the capitol as part of an attempt to remain in power; wasn't a sociopath and criminal who wanted power in order to avoid likely criminal conviction, to enrich himself, and to seek "revenge" on political opponents and those trying to maintain the rule of law. 

      "When a population loses its way that badly..." It's Bob, sadly, who has lost his way, not those of us who are hoping that someone or something can prevent Trump from gaining power again. Would Somerby consider someone in 1930s Germany who was rooting for Hitler to be stopped -- by whatEVER means -- as having lost their way? And the point is not that Trump is as bad as Hitler (although there are plenty of indications that things could get very bad in a second Trump term). The point is moral clarity -- the use of an extreme example for purposes of illustration. When a truly horrible, dangerous figure is on the brink of seizing the highest position of power, and all signs are flashing red, have people really lost their way if they hope he can be stopped by, say, a "silly" lawsuit like the current one?

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  2. The US Constitution was written explicitly to disentangle religion and government. It disavows the divine right of kings, substituting the will of the people. It take church out of people’s lives. Somerby seems to want to put it back. Most blue voters are against that.

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    1. Nowadays, we don't have to criticize what Somerby actually says. Or even what he "seems to say." Now we can criticize what Somerby "seems to want."

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    2. Reading anything and taking it at face value is unwise, and in particular with Somerby who has a history of coyly hiding his agenda behind words of art.

      Wearing blinders while reading Somerby is certainly your right, more power to you.

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    3. Anonymouse 1:57pm, how do you wear blinders and also take things at “face value”?

      We’re all aware that anonymices aren’t reading between the lines or gleaning abstractions. No, your “seems to say”, “seems to imply”, “seems to allege”, “seems to suggest —insert slanderous charge—- is an act of character assassination.

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    4. If Somerby were more open about his views, no one would need to infer anything. But implication is inherent to language. Somerby's goal is not to communicate but to obfuscate. That's why he never says what he means. He isn't interested in communicating, other than to make his points excusing Trump or smearing Biden or Stormy Daniels or whoever is the blue target of the day.

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    5. Pied Piper's purpose here is to attack other commenters. He doesn't want to communicate either, except to call other people names.

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    6. Pied and Cecelia have the same purpose, to attack commenters to get their daily emotional hit of owning the libs.

      Cecelia's "how do you wear blinders and also take things at “face value”?" has to one of the dumbest things ever said. Think over it again, Cecelia, an obvious realization may dawn on you, or it may not. Anything is possible.

      Commenters here pointedly use "seems" as a way to deconstruct Bob's goofy discourse, it is a repurposing of his overuse of the word.

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    7. Or, perhaps commenters use "seems" because it's so much easier to attack straw men than what Somerby actually writes.

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    8. For example, here the first commenter says that Somerby "seems to want" to reinstitute the divine right of kings. This, of course, is pure absurdity, but mice flock to its defense.

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    9. The word you want is reinstate.

      Somerby himself creates strawmen. Today, he is saying that the media hasn't explained the charges previously. That is totally false.

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    10. You mean, he “seems” to say that.

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    11. No, he said that pretty clearly.

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    12. Actually, he is saying that major orgs like the NYT have not previously explained the nature of the charges adequately - that is, in a comprehensible fashion. But who cares about nuance when we can mis-paraphrase? (Oh, and by the way, you may want to look up “reinstitute” in the dictionary.)

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    13. Pied Piper ,
      Not only is Bob saying that, he's backing it up with zero facts to support his statement.
      Bob deserves all the pats on the head you give him.

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  3. Whatever we are, we blue voters are not an undisguised mess. There is something wrong with Somerby.

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  4. As Trump falters and the rot spreads through the GOP, Republican voters will SEETHE with hatred and rage.

    And then they will need to learn how to COPE with the loss of their precious, yet pernicious, status in society.

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  5. Sororities, Girl Scouts, cheerleading squads use a talking stick or friendship baton that is passed around to show who has the floor at a meeting.

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    1. That’s a girly meeting. Men, and I mean real men, determine who has the floor by beating each other up. Then the winner breaks into the girly meeting and has consensual sex.

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    2. Notice that Stormy Daniels testified that Trump kept interrupting her and being rude during their dinner. She asked him whether anyone had ever taught him how to have a conversation (she said). She needed that stick to keep him from hogging the conversation. Girls know how to share. Trump looked for ways to avoid paying his debts.

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    3. If Trump had bothered to go down on Stormy, instead of relying on his puny penis, he may have avoided this whole affair.

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    4. If Trump had not been pressured by the Russian oligarchs into running for President, he could have had a private life separate from his public life and slept with whoever he wanted, bragged on Howard Stern's show (as usual), he would still be wealthy, and he wouldn't be going to jail soon. The Russians have not been kind to him, unless he takes up their offer and flees to Moscow after losing in 2024.

      Stormy really has nothing to do with anything, except that Trump was apparently ashamed of his liaison with her, because it confirmed the Access Hollywood tape and all of the other women who came forward to accuse him. You can't go around assaulting women indefinitely because eventually your actions catch up with you and there will be a messy trial. It happened to so many men that you'd think they would have learned by now.

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  6. I could post ten times more word-salads here and would still have a hundred tons of equally delicious word-salads left in my storage units. Somerby is no liberal.

    I am Corby.

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  7. This isn’t about sex. Trump cheated in the election.

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  8. Kris Hallenga has died.

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  9. Deference and obedience to an alpha male (or female) seems to be normal to human beings, because that's how almost all past societies operated. Kings, czars, emirs, shahs, popes, Imams, etc. ruled. Trump supporters fall in the category of following a powerful leader.

    Another trait normal to human societies is fear, distrust and hatred of the outsider -- the person who's different. Trump opponents fall in this category.

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    1. Trump supporters are in the intersection of these two categories.

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    2. Other forms that also existed have been omitted from your list.

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    3. 12:54 this is false, it is not "normal", in fact for 95% of human existence we have lived in egalitarian societies.

      That DIC is ignorant of human nature is hardly surprising, that he is unwilling to learn actual human nature is a manifestation of his troubled soul.

      All we can do is pity poor DIC.

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    4. David in Cal is SEETHING with hatred and is trying to COPE with that emotional state.

      Sure, it can be amusing to observe, but it is also SAD.

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    5. Anonymouse 1:29pm, CRAP.

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    6. Some say Von shitzinpantz.

      Others say DJ CRAPindiaper.

      The point is, Trump is old and poops in his pants.

      Word is, Trump is the top qualifier for the US Olympic Fart Team, he is expected to bring home the Gold.

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    7. “The point is, Trump is old and poops in his pants.”

      Yeah, thanks for clarifying. You were being so obscure.

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    8. "powerful leader"!!!!

      Bwahahaha!!!! The guy is a fucking crybaby coward. He would not have lasted a week on my 3rd grade playground. They don't call him Chickenshit for nothing.

      You're a fucking idiot, Dickhead in Cal.

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    9. David and Cecelia are the alpha male and female of the Daily Howler. Bob is their crazy uncle.

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    10. David and Cecelia are both male.

      David pretends he is related to people who are unrelated to him, Cecelia pretends to be a woman.

      Somerby pretends to be "liberal" while writing a blog that does little more than repeat Republican talking points.

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    11. I believe what David and Cecelia say about themselves.

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    12. I don't. You can't believe what they say about anything else, so why would what they say about themselves be true either?

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    13. Because they're good decent people.

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  10. Kevin understands:

    https://jabberwocking.com/benjamin-netanyahu-is-no-ally/

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  11. Even animals have ways of choosing pack leaders. Things likely existed in the bronze age that weren’t recorded in the Illiad, perhaps taken for granted. Such as a simple show of hands.

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    1. This is news?

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    2. Apparently it is news to Somerby.

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    3. I'm very concerned, about both presidential candidates. Trump is impetuous, childish, entitled and ill equipped. The response to his election could be warfare. Believe me, this disturbs me.

      But Biden is senile, corrupt, power hungry and ceding control to some shadowy DNC cabal. His violations of the bill of rights are just beyond. Vaccine mandates, censorship, executive declarations of war. Our country cannot tolerate this.

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    4. Lucky for you, Biden is not senile, not corrupt, not power hungry and has no shadowy DNC cabal behind him. Your list of supposed violations of freedom are normal public health and foreign policy acts consistent with previous presidents and necessary to do his job of protecting people.

      You have clearly been listening to too much right wing propaganda about Biden. If you stop swallowing disinformation and think about Biden in comparison to people like George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan and other Republican leaders, you will see that he is pretty normal as a president and not the bogeyman right wing conspiracy theorists have made him out to be.

      Trump is worse than childish and ill-equipped. He is corrupt, a liar, and experiencing a cognitive decline that is making him dysfunctional even as a candidate. He isn't really a viable alternative. But don't worry about Trump -- he is not going to win the election. I think you will feel more reassured if you can learn to see Biden in a more balanced way.

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    5. For example, look up the salk vaccine program and see how Eisenhower handled things. That wasn't a pandemic but he acted for the public good of school children who were dying or being disabled (for life) by the virus. Those measures were more extreme and he was a Republican.

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  12. If you want to study something, it is better to observe it directly than to study it via the Iliad.

    1. There is no basis for assuming similarity or difference.
    2. It is fiction.
    3. It was written so long ago that we know too little about the time and place it describes.
    4. It was translated from another language which filtered it through another understanding of meaning.
    5. Anyone can claim whatever they want and there is no way to resolve disputes about it.

    So, this is a majorly stupid suggestion.

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    1. Agree, and well put.

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    2. The Iliad is fake.

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    3. Yes, also, it is very, very pretentious.

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  13. All heterosexual sex is rape.

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    1. All nonconsensual sex is rape.

      Trump was found liable for sexual abuse, a technical term, and the Judge clarified that what Trump did was rape.

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    2. All heterosexual sex is rape, Boris.

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    3. Trivializing rape by equating it with all sex is a non-starter. There are well-defined situations denoted by the word "rape" and not all heterosexual sex fits the definition.

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    4. Go back to your bot farm, Boris. Yes, all heterosexual sex is rape.

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    5. Trump is a rapist.

      That is not normal.

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    6. Rape is, sadly, all too normal.

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    7. Every man is a rapist.

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    8. What Trump does with women is not normal.

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    9. What I do with women isn't normal, either. That's why I like Trump.

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  14. An informal poll of the ladies in the office, a mix of Republicans and Dems, found that everyone views Trump as physically disgusting and unanimously would rather both marry and fuck Biden over Trump. No one wanted to kill either. Still the vote for president was close to 50/50, Biden slightly edging out Trump.

    Apparently, Biden will need to do more than merely present as more fuckable than Trump, which is apparently a very low bar.

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    1. Anonymouse 1:50 pm, either way, I’d rather join a convent, however in Biden’s case, it would require a resurrection.

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    2. The convent is a high calling.

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    3. 75% of elderly men have active sex lives

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    4. Anonymouse 2:24pm, for the man from Dover, it’s over.

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    5. Dream on, Cecelia. Biden is straight.

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    6. Anonymouse 3:05pm, I never claimed otherwise.

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    7. God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself, because of a circumstance that he himself created. Then he resurrected himself and sent himself back to himself.

      This is the goat-herder level of reasoning you get from Somerby and his fanboys.

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    8. Anonymouse 3:32pm, when and where?

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    9. Mysterious are the ways of the Lord.

      While Cecelia may be Christian, David isn’t.

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    10. My point was that Biden is impotent, I mean important.

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    11. So he failed when you seduced him.

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    12. Anonymouse 4:51, no, at being important.

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    13. It really isn't funny when you make jokes about older men and impotence. For one thing, it perpetuates stereotypes. For another, it denigrates the relationships older people have in their 70s and 80s, implying it is all health problems and no happiness, romance or quality of life, no enjoyment, no contribution to family and community. Your jokes are ugly and unfair to the many older people who are not like that at all (which is most of them).

      Biden has a loving family and a wife who he appears to be happy with. He has a balance between family and active and doing the work as president. He is funny, warm, fully engaged with his staff and continues to be intelligent and hard working as president. I think he is contributing more to the job and way more effective than Trump, despite having more problems to contend with during covid and the economy recovery, and now with Ukraine and Gaza (which he did not start but is helping to end).

      Your unfairness toward Biden is not clever or funny but shows your mean spirit once again. Whenever I read your comments I am glad once again that there is no one like you in my personal life. You don't seem to be able to say anything without being ugly.

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    14. I'm old and I have an active sex life.

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  15. "We repeat the embellished claims our leadership cadres invent." Yes, and we are dicks about it when we do. It's a bad look.

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  16. "As far as we know, there were no elections, as we know them, during the late Bronze Age. "

    It is one thing to say there were no elections. When you add "as we know them" the statement becomes meaningless. Obviously, there were no computers, no punch ballots, no polling places, no voter registration much less motor-voter laws, and so on.

    But there were taxes and tribute during the bronze age. There was record keeping by businesses. Why wouldn't there be elections? There were elections in ancient Rome, not for top leaders but for local and low level officials. Given that consensus emerges from discussion and can be summarized by a show of hands, why might there not be elections in the Bronze age, in some form? It seems very obvious to go around and talk to everyone affected if you are going to do something like dig a new well or move cattle to the village commons or to decide whose fields to harvest in what order. Election is a way of counting how many opinions exist and which are more frequently held. It is not rocket science.

    Even the divine right Kings in England and France had advisory councils who expressed their views. That sort of discussion may have been resolved by the king's will, but the expression of views and emergence of consensus (or factions) was input to the king.

    Somerby's emphasis of the authoritarian aspects of despots instead of the collaborative nature of governance is not very blue-tribe of him. It is hard to tell whether he is excusing or explaining the right, or advocating their views himself. You have to decide from his language use. When he chides the blue tribe, he allies himself with the reds. And, again, he offers no evidence to support his negative statements about blue tribe members. We are blamed for mocking the cult of Trump while worshipping blue cable hosts ourselves (wha?).

    There is no evidence that authoritarianism is bred in the bone. If it were, that wouldn't make it a good idea. By definition, culture and civilization and morality/ethics and societal control of wrong behavior are all inventions not bred in the bone, but which enable us to function better as a people and as individuals, resulting in a whole lot of progress over time. We had those discussions about noble savages and the primacy or wonderfulness of nature over civilization. Civilization won and nature, while valued, is not the determinant of best behavior in our society. No one lets tigers roam the streets because they are dangerous to people. The serial killer is not let out of jail simply because he claims he was bred in the bone to kill in sadistic ways.

    We are better than that. That's why Trump is expected to transcend his selfish narcissistic nature and follow the same laws as everyone else. He is not excused from his responsibilities to others by virtue of having been left a big pile of money by his daddy, with the realization that if you tell big lies most people will say nothing. Human nature is not the only law among blue voters.

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    1. Anonymouse 2:22pm, you aren’t really arguing that “we are better than this”, you’re saying that you and yours are better than Bob’s sense of things. We “others” are not “better than this” even if we could be better if we only allowed ourselves to be. That sentiment alone should cause you to question your little pieties as to human nature, but no matter.

      Your positive affirmations are fine and dandy, and no one takes them with anything resembling seriousness, however, it is ridiculous for you to take umbrage when Bob references what he bemoans as being the human condition.

      A condition, by the way, that you heartily and thoroughly illustrate via a strategic war/ crusade that you wage here on a daily basis.

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    2. 3:14 that is a dumb analysis of what 2:22 wrote.

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    3. It’s not “analysis”. This is a blog.

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    4. Cecelia, the cure for the human condition is civilization.

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    5. Anonymouse 4:32pm, it’s a treatment not a cure.

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    6. I know you think you sound profound when you say such things, but people do not exist to be treated or cured, but to live satisfying lives with a minimum of pain and dysfunction. No one has the goal of ridding humanity of its human qualities. Civilization helps us be our best selves. Somerby has a way more negative view of human nature than I do.

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    7. Anonymouse 5:59pm, no, I think you sound very dense and blinkered when you fail to notice that I was replying to the anonymouse’s use of the term “cure”.

      Every other word you’ve typed buttresses my point as to the difference between a focus on incrementally handling (rather than curing the challenges of life) and the enjoyment and respect for freedom inherent in that effort.

      YOU are here to cure what you don’t like to hear. You’re here to nullify that effrontery and to eradicate it, to stomp it out, to cure us of it.

      One human psyche at a time even as you laud your appreciation for human kind.

      You don’t have faith in humanity, you have the determination to force it into the box of your choosing. You have faith in your zeal to do this. You have faith in nothing and nobody but that.

      Delete
    8. I don't force you into a box of my choosing. I cordially invite you.

      Delete
    9. Anonymouse 11:52pm, you don’t know what an invitation is, let alone cordiality.

      You just know war.

      Delete
  17. How come Bob didn’t mind one side trying to send the other guy to jail when the other guy was a woman?

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    Replies
    1. Bob complained all the time about “lock her up”.

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    2. No, he didn't. He complained about what a terrible candidate Hillary was and how bad she campaigned, siding with those attacking her. He did note the ongoing media attack on Hillary and Bill, as described in Fools for Scandal by Conason, but by the time Hillary ran for president, Somerby was advancing right wing memes and supporting Trump, which meant a non-stop denigration of Hillary as a candidate. I would have to go back and check, but I believe he also favored Bernie over Hillary and was quite negative about her during the primaries, when Hillary consistently beat Bernie and yet got no support from Somerby and the bros.

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    3. Anonymouse 5:54pm, Bob was deploring the deplorable for saying “Lock her up” in 2020 and before that. .
      He wanted Clinton to win, but fretted over her and every thing else. Just as he does now with Biden (and everything else).

      You’ve made a livelihood and a calling out of attacking Bob as being a stealth conservative as you simultaneously say that he’s of no importance at all.

      By all means keep it up. Your coven should stick around and keep the lights on until Bob types his last reference to the Iliad. Until his last highly controversial poetry reference. Until there’s not a spleen left among you.

      Delete
    4. Coven. How original.

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    5. The Right must hate Cecelia for not trying to communicate in English.

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    6. I love Cecelia even if, like everybody else, she makes a few mistakes.

      Delete
  18. Achaea is still a regional unit in modern Greece.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaea

    ReplyDelete