WEDNESDAY, MAY 22, 2024
Times reporters attempt to explain: Could Donald. J. Trump be a convicted felon by the end of next week?
Yes, he plainly could be! In her new column for the New York Times, Michelle Goldberg suggests that many voters may be unaware of that fairly obvious fact:
In a recent New York Times/Siena poll, 53 percent of voters in swing states said it was somewhat or very unlikely that Trump would be found guilty. That included 66 percent of Republicans but also 42 percent of Democrats.
These voters may be overstating Trump’s chances of an acquittal; many legal experts think the prosecution has an edge. A hopeful possibility, then, is that a guilty verdict will come as a shock to many Americans who have checked out of the news cycle, perhaps giving them pause about putting a criminal in the White House. I wouldn’t count on it, though. In several polls, small but significant shares of Trump supporters said they wouldn’t vote for him if he was a felon, but if recent history is any guide, a vast majority of his supporters will easily rationalize away a conviction. Trump’s minions are already working hard to discredit the proceedings...
Will the defendant be found guilty? We can't tell you that.
That said, an acquittal is a whole different thing. Goldberg seems to be skipping past the chances of a hung jury—and she puts her thumb on the scale a tad when she seems to say that Trump supporters will be "rationalizing away a conviction" if they continue supporting Trump in the face of a guilty verdict.
Would such voters be "rationalizing away a conviction?" Or might they be acting on a widely held belief in Red America—the belief that Trump has been subjected to a sham political prosecution inside a (Blue State) kangaroo court?
It's hard to know how voters will react to a guilty verdict. That said, also this:
At this point, how many voters can even explain the criminal offense(s) with which this defendant stands charged?
Trump isn't charged with robbing a bank, or with shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. Such alleged offenses would be easy to picture, describe and define.
By way of contrast, we would guess that very few people can clearly define the offenses with which Trump stands charged. Indeed, we'd say that Protess and Bromwich helped establish that point on the front page of Monday's New York Times.
Protess and Bromwich are the New York Times reporters who have been covering this high-profile Gotham trial. On Monday morning's front page, they attempted to explain (define; describe) the nature of the criminal offense with which the former president stands charged.
In our view, the effort didn't go especially well. Headline included, their front-page report started like this:
As Trump Trial Nears Its End, the Law May Give Prosecutors an Edge
Over the course of a monthlong criminal trial, the evidence against Donald J. Trump has piled up.
A recording of his voice directing a fixer to pay in cash. Phone calls, text messages, emails and a photograph that illustrate the case against him. And a parade of 18 witnesses who together told the prosecution’s story: that Mr. Trump orchestrated a conspiracy to suppress sex scandals during the 2016 election, and after winning, sought to bury a porn star’s story for good.
The evidence has piled up, they said—evidence that Donald J. Trump "orchestrated a conspiracy to suppress sex scandals during the 2016 election," then "sought to bury a porn star’s story for good."
To their credit, they worked a favorite tabloid-adjacent locution into the very start of their report. Also, though, that opening seemed to represent a tiny stab at defining the (criminal) offense with which the defendant stands charged.
We'll quickly note their use of the evocative term "conspiracy." That sounds like a type of conduct which is, or certainly should be, illegal. As we'll see, that evocat8ve term comes into play later on in their report, when they set about the task of explaining the felonious conduct with which the defendant stands charged.
Needless to say, the allegedly criminal conduct in question did involve "a porn star!" Midway through their lengthy report, the scribes began their attempt to describe the nature of the alleged criminal offense with greater clarity:
Felony counts of falsifying business records require prosecutors to show that a defendant sought to conceal a second crime. And in this case, the prosecutors have laid out that second crime in graphic detail, arguing that in 2015, Mr. Trump entered into a conspiracy with Mr. Cohen and the publisher of The National Enquirer, David Pecker, to conceal the sex scandals.
Mr. Pecker, the trial’s first witness, testified that he had agreed to suppress several damaging stories on Mr. Trump’s behalf as he ran for president, including a former Playboy model’s story of an affair.
Mr. Pecker told the jury that for $150,000, he bought and buried the model’s story. And on a surreptitious recording Mr. Cohen made on his phone, jurors heard Mr. Trump directing that they repay Mr. Pecker.
Other witnesses—including Hope Hicks, Mr. Trump’s former spokeswoman—underscored the threat that the stories posed to the campaign. She also testified that the candidate was in touch with both Mr. Pecker and Mr. Cohen as the campaign sought to contain the scandals, a recollection corroborated by phone records.
By this time, the reporters have described the evidence in support of the claim that Trump had committed the relatively minor, misdemeanor offense of "falsifying business records." In Red America, voters are routinely told, perhaps correctly, that the statute of limitations had run on any such misdemeanor offense left to stand on its own.
At any rate, now the reporters went to the place where the rubber meets the road. In paragraph 20 of a 40-paragraph report, they began their attempt to explain the theory according to which Trump had committed a set of 34 felonies—a much more serious set of criminal offenses.
In our view, their attempt to explain that very basic point didn't go especially well. And these are the two reporters for our greatest newspaper who have been in charge of reporting the ongoing trial!
For starters, let's be fair! As they launched their attempt to explain, the reporters laid out the part of the story which everyone knows how to explain. They did so in this passage:
Felony counts of falsifying business records require prosecutors to show that a defendant sought to conceal a second crime.
To charge this defendant with a felony—with 34 felonies, in fact—the prosecution has to show that he falsified business records in order to conceal a second crime.
That part of the legal theory has been easy for everyone to state. But in this particular case, what is that second crime—the second crime which Donald J. Trump allegedly tried to conceal?
As they continued along, Protess and Bromwich utterly failed to answer that second question. As joined a journalistic cast of thousands in the process.
In the second half of their lengthy report, they kept returning to the matter of the alleged falsification of business records. As they did, they kept failing to elucidate the second part of the legal formula—the nature of the second criminal offense Trump was allegedly trying to conceal.
In the passage we've posted above, the boys seem to identify that second crime. They do so in this persuasive passage:
The prosecutors have laid out that second crime in graphic detail, arguing that in 2015, Mr. Trump entered into a conspiracy with Mr. Cohen and the publisher of The National Enquirer, David Pecker, to conceal the sex scandals.
There's that magic word again—the evocative C-word, "conspiracy."
According to the Times reporters, prosecutors have shown that Trump entered into such an agreement or compact with Michael Cohen and David Pecker. In the language of the reporters, he entered into "a conspiracy with [those Cohen and Pecker] to conceal the [aforementioned] sex scandals."
"Conspiracy" is an evocative term. It sounds like the name of conduct which certainly should be illegal.
That said, the reporters go on from additional sixteen paragraphs after the passage we've posted. At no point do they explain, or even try to explain, what was illegal—what was criminal—about the "conspiracy" they describe in paragraph 20.
It's hard to show you what doesn't exist. For that reason, who can't show you the passage where Protess and Bromwich fail to cite the specific statutes with make that "conspiracy" an example of illegal / criminal conduct.
Full disclosure! There seems to be little doubt that Trump and Pecker did, i fact, set out to conceal that "Playboy model's" story.
There seems to be little doubt that some such plan was executed. But by now, a fundamental point has been explained a million times:
On its face, it isn't illegal to enter into an NDA (a non-disclosure agreement) of that particular kind. That's been declared a million times, by legal analysts from Blue America as well as by those from Red.
That's been declared a million times! That said, what made this particular conduct illegal? What made it an alleged second crime—a second crime which Donald J. Trump was attempting to conceal?
As they boys drone on and on, they fail to return to that basic point. In that failure, they fail to explain the legal theory at the heart if this case—the legal theory which turns a relatively minor set of (alleged) misdemeanor, on which the statute of limitations may have run, into a set of 34 felony crimes.
Trump hasn't been charged with robbing a bank. He hasn't bene charged with shooting an innocent person right out there in the street.
He has been charged with 34 felonies. But what is the nature of those alleged offenses?
In their front-page report two days ago, Protess and Bromwich give the impression of answering that amazingly basic question. They give that impression, but they accomplish no such task.
In fairness, Protess and Bromwich joined a long list of major reporters who have committed the journalistic offense of playing fast and loose with this amazingly basic element of the ongoing criminal trial. Out in Red America, voters have been told about this repeated failure again and again and again.
Out in Red America, will many voters disregard a possible guilty verdict? If they do, will they be "rationalizing" the verdict away—or will they be reacting to the various things they've been told about the trial by Red America's major news orgs?
Over here in Blue America, major journalists have had a hard time explaining the basis on which this defendant has been charged with 34 felony counts. On Monday, Protess and Bromwich joined this group, or so we're telling you here.
In our view, Trump has been involved in scams all through his adult life. It's also true that our major mainstream news orgs have engaged in scam-adjacent journalistic stampedes again and again and again.
Tomorrow, we'll offer a few more examples of the failed attempts to explain the basis on which this defendant stands charged. Do such failures stem from "liberal bias?" Or could they simply represent the limits of human capability?
We humans are surprisingly skilled at building tall buildings—tall buildings which don't fall down. As a general matter, do we possess the types of skills which are required to explain a matter like this?
Tomorrow: The Washington Post attempts to explain
Friday: What Red America has heard
"Would such voters be "rationalizing away a conviction?" Or might they be acting on a widely held belief in Red America—the belief that Trump has been subjected to a sham political prosecution inside a (Blue State) kangaroo court?"
ReplyDeleteWe live in a country ruled by laws. Failure to accept the verdicts of the court (whatever the rationale) is akin to refusing to accept the results of an election, as Trump did on 1/6. The courts determine who is guilt or innocent, not Trump and not his followers.
Trump signaled his disdain for our courts and legal system with his contemptuous behavior during his trial. Somerby's suggestion that people get to decide whether they think Trump is guilty or not if one thing, but suggesting any action to abrogate the verdict, sets aside the function of the court to determine that (via the judge and a jury) and is akin to insurrection. We do not have the right in our country to aid and abet criminals trying to evade their sentences. That is a crime. Somerby needs to be more circumspect when he hypothesizes about people opposing what he calls a "kangaroo court" judgment, when it is the law of the land.
"Failure to accept the verdicts of the court (whatever the rationale) is akin to refusing to accept the results of an election"
DeleteIf you alive back then, would you have accepted the Dred Scott opinion?
You mean the SC decision?
DeleteIf so, you are making a very poor analogy. If you think a bit and employ a minimum amount of integrity and reasonableness, it will dawn on you, how ignorant your question is.
The "second 'crime'" as I understand it, is section 17-152 of the NY Election Law, which states "Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor." It may be that there is one or more other alleged separate crimes the DA is relying on, e.g., violation of federal election law (arguably, payoff to Daniels was an illegal campaign expense). I'm not sure whether federal law is being relied on. (I would think that competent reporters could explain this. The reporters use the word "conspiracy" - obviously because an element of the election law misdemeanor is that there is a conspiracy - which basically means two or more people conspiring to commit a crime. (One can be guilty of conspiracy even if one doesn't actually go ahead and commit the crime). I have read that no one has ever been convicted of violating this NY election statute - but I haven't researched it. Any able to cite a case? The charge against Trump is the violation of the somewhat terse NY falsification of records statute. To be convicted under that statute, the DA has to prove that the records were falsified for a fraudulent purpose, and for it to be a felony, the purpose has to be to conceal another crime. Under Section 17-152, the conspiracy apparently was Trump, Cohen and Packer to promote Trump's election by "illegal means", i.e., paying off Daniels and the Playmate so that would go to the enquirer who for a price would publish their salacious stories. No one would ever have seen Trumps's falsified records; I'm not sure how they were disclosed, but they were meant to be internal. I don't believe there has been any contention in the trial of tax evasion. It's all pretty tawdry.
DeleteThe federal election law violation is Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA): The payment Daniels was intended to influence the 2016 election, making it an in-kind campaign contribution and the amount exceeded the legal limit for campaign contributions and was not disclosed which is required by FECA.
DeleteThis reliance on federal law establishes the "second crime" necessary to elevate the charges to felonies under New York law.
The FECA law is discussed here:
DeleteThe Bragg Case Against Trump Is a Historic Mistake
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/opinion/bragg-trump-trial.html
These issues were brought up by the defense, and were adjudicated and dismissed in court.
DeleteWhat 2:26 identifies as the second crime is a real possiblility.
Delete"In the second half of their lengthy report, they kept returning to the matter of the alleged falsification of business records. As they did, they kept failing to elucidate the second part of the legal formula—the nature of the second criminal offense Trump was allegedly trying to conceal."
ReplyDeleteAs Somerby notes, many of the witnesses were in support of the offense that makes the record falsification a cover up of another crime. Does Somerby imagine that the testimony of Stormy Daniels and David Pecker was about record falsification? Of course it wasn't. It was about the other crime, the one Trump tried to cover up with his falsification of records, the payment of the hush money to benefit his election campaign.
Much of the testimony presented at trial makes no sense if you disregard that election-related crime, the one Somerby says hasn't been explained. Can Somerby really be this stupid? I doubt that, which is why I believe he is busily providing cover for those who want to set aside a potential Trump guilty verdict.
But why are we still talking about this? Because MAGAs are scared about the verdict. It isn't that anyone is confused about what Trump did or why he is being tried. It is because the MAGAs don't want Trump to go to jail (or be on house arrest). And that includes Somerby.
"In our view, Trump has been involved in scams all through his adult life. It's also true that our major mainstream news orgs have engaged in scam-adjacent journalistic stampedes again and again and again."
ReplyDeleteHere Somerby attempts a false equivalency. The journalistic "stampedes" (whatever that may be) are not the same as Trump's "scams" (many of which are actually crimes). The word scam is used to minimize things like stealing classified documents, engaging in insurrection, attempting to subvert an election by creating fake electors, and engaging in massive business fraud, to name a few. Selling bibles is a scam. Cheating on taxes to the tune of $100 million is fraud.
And no, journalists have done nothing equivalent to any of this.
Bob probably hasn't seen a playful scamp, like Trump, in the public eye in 20 years, when Osama bin Laden was a huge celebrity.
DeleteC Gordon Bell has died.
ReplyDeleteWhat about G. Gordon Liddy?
DeleteLiddy died three years ago.
DeleteSayonara, Gordo.
DeleteC Gordon Bell invented the bell often seen in church steeples.
DeleteUnfortunately he was unable to procure a patent and died penniless.
Gordon Bell was a computer engineer.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Bell
who gives a shit?
DeletePaul Campos has some interesting links.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/05/biden-and-the-icc
Bob stomping his feet and whining that he doesn't want Trump charged for his criminal conduct is as good a reason as any you will find for why Trump shouldn't be charged for his criminal conduct.
ReplyDeleteIf you're waiting for something else, you'll be disappointed.
A poll for Biden supporters:
ReplyDeleteThe verdict in this trial might be the deciding factor in the election. Suppose you were on the jury. Suppose you believed the prosecution had not proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Would you nevertheless vote to convict in order to save the country from Trump?
ZZzzzz ....
DeleteIf the prosecution can't prove their case, I'd vote not guilty. I don't think convicting Trump will save the country (he's not the only right-winger in the USA), but even if it did, there are plenty of other charges he won't skate on.
DeleteA poll for Right-wingers.
DeleteWould you find cops guilty of shooting un-armd black men, for the good of the country, even if the prosecution couldn't prove their case?
I would l like to believe that I would follow the evidence, even if I didn't like the outcome. But, would I really do this? I wonder whether I would talk myself into believing that the evidence showed the outcome I preferred.
DeleteI wouldn't limit myself to the charges in the indictment. I'd convict Trump of general criminality. Then I'd exile him to Russia.
DeleteI would wait to hear what Donald J Chickenshit testifies to under oath. LOL
DeleteDavid, I would wait to hear what that pack of lawless creatures making the pilgrimage to NY City to stand in front of the media mikes and slander the judge's daughter have to say first, fuckface.
DeleteOf course not. As a juror, you affirm that you will perform a specific duty. You don't get to substitute one crime for another. You get the evidence, the closing arguments, and the instruction from the judge. Evaluating the case in light of that information is the only job at hand.
DeleteNow what's the point of your silly "poll"?
The answer to DIC is: no.
DeleteDuh.
QiB -- the point of my poll is to evaluate the likelihood that some or all jurors will find Trump guilty for political reasons. Given what some Dems say, some of the jury should convict him, regardless of the legal facts. If Trump really is another Hitler, or if Trump will create a dictatorship and end democracy, then an unjust jury verdict would be a small price to pay for avoiding such a disaster.
DeleteBased on the little I know, there's no real case against Trump. IMO he deserves be acquitted quickly. Nevertheless, since probably most or all the jurors are Dems, and given a very unfair, biased judge, the best I hope for is a hung jury. Or, maybe acquittal on the felony counts, but guilty of some misdemeanors.
The case against Trump is very solid, and is routinely prosecuted.
DeleteIf Trump is found guilty, you’ll just have to cope with that. Sorry, bro.
David in Cal,
DeleteNot only are most of the jury Democrats, I hear most of them aren't even rapists.
That should be enough for Trump to win on appeal.
The largest group of people in the NYC jury pool are non-voters. That makes it most likely that the jurors are low-information, not registered, certainly not people who follow politics closely. Then during voir dire, partisans were eliminated. That includes MAGAs. This should give Trump a fair chance of having the trial determined by the evidence and not preexisting opinions of any type.
DeleteWe have to find examples that contain a clear explanation of the specific second crime involved. I will look. Do you have any?
ReplyDeleteLet's work together on this.
ReplyDeleteDavid might enjoy this, from Kevin:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/the-algebra-wars-are-pure-insanity/
Thanks @12:05. A sensible, fact-based column.
DeleteI believe culture is terribly important -- more important than poverty. Poor Asian immigrants leapt ahead of whites academically in one generation. So IMO the key is to change black culture. Not an easy task.
Media could help by giving more coverage to blacks with intellectual accomplishments like Thomas Sowell, and giving less coverage to race hustlers like Al Sharpton.
Only Blacks can change Black culture.
DeleteIMO government policies do impact culture. A disastrous example was the structure of welfare At one time, black children mostly lived in two-parent families. Then, welfare law decreed that poor people couldn't get money if there was a man in the house.
DeleteToday, Republican policies tend to encourage black independence and self-reliance. E.g., Enterprise Zones make more jobs available to inner city blacks. Democratic policies tend to encourage dependency on government. More types of welfare. Slavery restitutions. Etc.
There’s no reason for students to perform any better than they currently do with respect to algebra.
DeleteWhat the data indicates is that Black people continue to suffer from racism and racism-borne poverty, so the obvious solution is to find ways to mitigate racism.
No, it shows that Black people don't care about algebra.
Delete@3:38 What data are you talking about? Yes, blacks do suffer from some racism. And, on average, blacks are poorer than whites. But, there is no data demonstrating that these are the cause of blacks doing worse than whites in algebra.
DeleteThere’s a field dedicated to studying these issues with reams of data that demonstrate why Black people score lower than Whites, and why racism and the resultant poverty remains the dominant impediment to progress for Black people.
DeleteYour ignorance is not a point of pride.
Why do Black people do well in sports and entertainment?
DeleteBecause historically, other routes to success have been barred for them.
DeleteSports and entertainment were barred to them, too. They succeeded in these fields because they wanted to. They wanted it enough to overcome the barriers.
DeleteThere are exceptions, of course. But Blacks as a community just don't value algebra enough to overcome the barriers.
Same reason Republican voters can't learn economics.
DeleteThis article identifies the second crime as a violation of New York state election law 17-152, which involves conspiracy to promote or prevent an election by unlawful means:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/21/trump-trial-hush-money-next-steps/
I'm not getting any kind of explanation of the specific second crime involved from New York Times.
ReplyDeleteHow are you faring?
ReplyDelete"the prosecution has to show that he falsified business records in order to conceal a second crime."
Yes, of course. But even the alleged "falsification" seems like a stretch. Your lawyer did something for you, which included him spending his time and money. And then you paid your lawyer, what amounts to "legal fees": "the costs associated with the use of professional legal services", according to google.
So, where's this "falsification"? It's all bullshit.
Wrong. You don't bump up the legal fees to cover taxes. Thanks for playing.
DeleteFurthermore, there's no conclusive evidence that Trump made the decision to show that money as legal fees. The only one who said that was Cohen, b but on cross-examination he was shown to be lying. That was the Perry Mason moment, when Cohen was forced to admit that the phone call in which Trump supposedly gave those instructions was actually about a different topic entirely.
Delete@David in Cal 12:53 PM
DeleteBut even if he did, I don't see what the problem is. I don't see any "misdemeanor" in it. I don't know, some meaningless irs-specific technicality, perhaps. If anything at all.
Something like this: "you reported this as "legal fees", but according to paragraph blah-blah it would be more appropriate to report it as "blah-blah". Please remember next time." End of story.
You're full of shit as usual, DiCK.
DeleteTo conceal the true nature of the payment, Trump and his associates decided to reimburse Cohen in a manner that would disguise the transaction. Instead of straightforwardly recording the reimbursement as related to the hush money, they categorized it as a legal retainer fee in their records. This falsification was intended to obscure the purpose of the payment and avoid raising suspicions about the campaign's actions.
DeleteNonsense. To conceal from whom? Business auditors? And if it was recorded as "reimbursement of legal expenses", how would it hurt him, exactly?
Deletebut it wasn't reimbursement of legal expenses, shit for brains.
DeleteTo conceal from Federal Election Commission, campaign finance regulators, law enforcement authorities, political opponents and the media and or internal stakeholders and employees
Delete(To conceal from the entities that enforce the crimes.)
DeleteDavid,
DeleteNEW YORK (AP) — A video posted to Donald Trump’s account on his social media network included references to a “unified Reich”/b>
among hypothetical news headlines if he wins the election in November.
Hahaha!!! Boy, I tell you, that trump is such a hilarious cutup. Always joking. You must be so proud.
@1:35
Delete"To conceal from whom?"
Notwithstanding the hostile responses to this question, I think it's a good one. When a publicly-traded company records its activities, it has a responsibility for accuracy and transparency. Various federal and state agencies have statutory authority to verify that the company's records don't hide any material fact.
Does the same requirement apply to a privately- and closely-held busintess like Trump's? If he had chosen to record his payments to Cohen as being for the purchase of the Brooklyn Bridge, would it matter? As the principal of a private concern, Trump isn't accountable to shareholders.
There might be a solid reason why this falsification matters. It's a valid question.
@ 2:11 PM
Delete"To conceal from Federal Election Commission..." blah, blah, blah.
The feds already investigated this and found nothing criminal. Therefore, there's nothing to conceal. And therefore no falsification either, because your explanation is self-referring.
It’s true that federal investigations into the hush money payment did not result in charges against Trump at the federal level. However, the current case brought by the Manhattan District Attorney's office relies on state laws and legal theories that are distinct from federal investigations.
DeleteDavid and the original commenter, you guys are misinformed, or trying to spread misinformation.
DeleteThere are checks, ledgers, emails, invoices, and notes that demonstrate the payments were recorded as being for legal services, but did not involve any legal services, and were in fact reimbursements for hush money.
Trump signed the checks.
The phone call that DIC references was NOT shown to be a lie by the defense, all the defense did was show a text prior to the call from Cohen to Trump's bodyguard about a prank caller; however, Cohen stuck to his statement and confirmed that the call was about Stormy. It was not a Perry Mason moment, that is hilarious, the defense lawyer starting yelling at Cohen but his behavior was objected and he then calmed down - that was not a Perry Mason moment, that was an embarrassing performative outburst from the defense that was squashed by the prosecution and the judge.
I do not know how DIC can present falsehoods here so routinely, so baldly and boldly, but as a consequence, DIC has no credibility.
And again, it could've been recorded as "reimbursement of legal expenses" or something.
DeleteWhen your lawyer is paying your parking tickets and you're reimbursing him, I'm sure you don't need to specify all the details about every parking ticket. No, you just say "reimbursement", period. Or "legal fees", for that matter.
What is your obsession with parking tickets?
Delete2:34 that is false.
DeleteThe FEC found that Trump and Cohen "knowingly and wittingly" committed fraud; however, the Republican members voted to not pursue the case further because Cohen had already been punished and it would be “not the best use of agency resources.”
So the Feds did find criminal behavior, but in this instance, Trump was rescued by the partisan members of the commission.
2:49 false.
DeleteThere were no legal services rendered, so the business records, as such, were falsified. Furthermore the payments violated election and tax laws.
This is straightforward, you are being willfully obtuse because you need to be emotionally comforted by having your hero cult leader challenged and having to face responsibility for his actions.
The FEC did not find that Trump and Cohen "knowingly and wittingly" committed fraud. If they did, there would've been a penalty.
Delete3:04 false.
DeleteThe FEC general counsel did in fact find that Trump and Cohen "knowingly and wittingly" committed fraud.
Unlike with Clinton, there was no penalty because the Republican commissioners voted to dismiss the case, explaining that Cohen had already been punished and pursuing the case further would not be the best use of their resources.
Trump was found by the FEC to have engaged in illegality, but was let off the hook due to the partisanship of the commissioners.
One can not credibly accept the partisanship of the commissioners yet reject the DANY case.
3:04 due to your nonsense, you have no credibility, you and your false claims are irrelevant.
Because you find this circumstance emotionally upsetting, we pity your situation, but you are only make it worse for yourself by spreading misinformation.
With Clinton, I think it was misreporting what they spent on the dossier that was put together to detail Donald Trump's ties to Russia. Clinton classified it as "legal services" on FEC forms, but it was alleged it was intended to influence the election. A Democratic operative was the source of the information in the report but he lied. Still, his lies eventually made their way into the dossier, which the FBI used to obtain a warrant to wiretap Trump campaign aide Carter Page. (The Justice Department later acknowledged that the warrant applications did not meet legal standards.) But Clinton and the DNC settled it for $113,000 I think it was.
Delete3:30: Clinton and the DNC settled the fine for their lies about the now-debunked dossier for $317,000
Delete
DeleteYou did in fact lie @3:00 PM that "The FEC found that Trump and Cohen "knowingly and wittingly" committed fraud". That's a lie: FEC found no such thing.
The fact that Democrat commissioners said something -- and they did not, in fact, say that fraud was committed, but only that the charge seemed credible to them - is irrelevant.
3:38 false.
DeleteIt was not the Dem commissioners, but the FEC general counsel that stated in their report that Trump and Cohen had “knowingly and wittingly” committed fraud.
You are the one spreading misinformation.
You also misrepresent the Clinton case in various ways (you’re wrong about the operative, the warrant, also the “dossier” has not been credibly discredited), including the fine; the Clinton campaign was fined $8k.
General counsel? She's not even a commissioner, is she? If she indeed stated something (and I see no proof, just moonbat babble), who cares?
Delete3:46 You are right, I'm sorry. The Clinton Campaign was only fined $8,000 for falsifying the records. The DNC was also charged $146,000 bringing the total fine to $154,000 for suppressing the truth about the payment for the dossier that could not be independently verified by U.S. intelligence agencies or the FBI and whose main source later stated that much of the information he provided was based on hearsay and speculation.
DeleteI stand corrected.
4:33 The FEC general counsel is the one that does the actual investigation; following the investigation they issued the FEC’s official report in which they explicitly said that Trump and Cohen “knowingly and wittingly” committed fraud. It is easy enough to Google.
DeleteThe DNC was fined $105k.
Some of the dossier has been confirmed, some of it has not, but it has not otherwise been “discredited”.
It is good you are slowly getting up to speed with the information, instead of spreading misinformation. Bravo!
When the Mueller Report and Mueller’s actual testimony...
DeleteSorry, you lost me there. Get back to me when Donald J Chickenshit's actual testimony comes out. Bwahahaha!!!
If Donald J Chickenshit's actual testimony was a determinative factor the Mueller Report and Mueller’s actual testimony would have said so, no?
DeleteYou're pulling that out of your ass because you're a partisan imbecile.
How the fuck would he be able to write that without knowing what the fucking lying coward traitor was going to say under oath, trollboy?
DeleteThe investigation did not always yield admissible information or testimony, or a complete picture of the activities undertaken by subjects of the investigation. Some individuals invoked their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination and were not, in the Office's judgment, appropriate candidates for grants of immunity. The Office limited its pursuit of other witnesses and information-such as information known to attorneys or individuals claiming to be members of the media-in light of internal Department of Justice policies. See, e.g., Justice Manual§§ 9-13.400, 13.410. Some of the information obtained via court process, moreover, was presumptively covered by legal privilege and was screened from investigators by a filter (or "taint") team. Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the United States.
DeleteFurther, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we are investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign--deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.
Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.
You're SO DUMB. You're so dumb it's incredible. Do you think Trump was going to confess to colluding with Russia? Do you think that passage says Trump's s non-testimony was a factor? If it was important they could just subpoena him, no? It's unbelievable how drop dead stupid you are! You're an complete imbecile.
DeleteYou're SO DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteGood to know though, a partisan imbecile feels like Mueller's findings were wrong because Trump didn't testify. Good to know. It's good we're all on the same page.
DeleteI am not dumb, trollboy. You have your head up trump's ass so you probably can't understand why I am not willing to giving the lying sack of shit treasonous bastard the benefit of the doubt. Mueller was negotiating with that lying bastard for a long time and finally was forced to end the probe. The lying sack of shit kept promising to answer questions under oath but just like in the NY trial he was always full of shit.
DeleteYou can say the same fucking thing about any interrogation or questioning by investigators. Why do it at all if you know the subject will never confess. Right, shit for brains.
NBC mentioned it early last month!! I'm sick of Somerby personal lie.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-hush-money-live-updates-day-6-rcna148919#rcrd39775
The DA, in the charging docs, explained that the crimes that elevate the case to a felony level are violations of election laws and tax laws.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of case is routine and common for the DANY, including cases that involve violations of election laws (it is false that the case relies on never-used or obscure law).
The concerns that Somerby and his fanboys raise are the same as Trump's defense, which raised those concerns in motions, which were all adjudicated and defeated.
Here is a website that covers legal issues, that goes over how the case is fairly straightforward:
https://www.justsecurity.org/93916/guide-manhattan-trump-trial/
As 12:41's link establishes, the prosecution is pursuing a fair and reasonable case, from the linked article:
"the two election law professors told BI they were confident it would lead to a conviction....
Wice noted that two judges — Merchan and Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein, a Manhattan federal judge who rejected Trump's attempt to move the hush-money case to federal court — upheld the use of 17-152 in this case.
"It's a solid statute and very straightforward," Wice said....
Winning isn't as tricky as it sounds
What will prosecutors argue made Trump's 17-152 election conspiracy "unlawful?"
They've already cited three ways.
First, there's federal election law. Prosecutors have alleged that the conspiracy intended to violate the Federal Election Campaign Act, or FECA, which sets strict limits on contributions.
Trump conspired with Cohen and editors at the National Enquirer to bury Daniels' story of a 2006 one-night-stand — long denied by Trump — by paying her $130,000, prosecutors say. That money was an illegally high campaign expenditure, they say.
Second, Trump intended to violate state tax law when he disguised his repayment of Cohen as a series of monthly checks for "legal fees," prosecutors say.
And third, Trump conspired to falsify the records of the National Enquirer through a plan to "catch and kill" stories that could hurt his 2016 campaign, prosecutors allege.
Proof of an intent to violate any of these three laws would be sufficient to satisfy Section 17-152. And once you prove 17-152, you have the underlying crime you need to raise misdemeanor falsifying business records to a felony.
It's important to remember that Trump is only charged with 34 counts of this one crime: felony falsification of business records, said election-law scholar Jerry H. Goldfeder.
Trump is not charged with actually committing any of the underlying state and federal laws required to prove felony falsification.
So prosecutors have no legal obligation to prove he’s guilty of any of these underlying laws, 17-152 included, said Goldfeder, senior counsel at Cozen O’Connor and author of Goldfeder’s Modern Election Law.
“They only have to prove he intended to commit these underlying crimes,” which is a far lower bar, said Goldfeder, who also directs the Fordham Law School Voting Rights and Democracy Project.
“I think it’s a very viable case,” he told BI.
“And the testimony so far demonstrates that Trump intended to pursue this catch-and-kill scheme and to falsify business records to cover it up — and did so to influence the election,” he said."
This is explains the legal aspects Somerby was referencing but doesn’t address his broader critique about how well mainstream media has covered these details.
ReplyDelete"The concerns that Somerby and his fanboys raise are the same as Trump's defense, which raised those concerns in motions, which were all adjudicated and defeated."
ReplyDeleteThinking about it, Somerby's concerns are that the media, specifically the New York Times reporters Protess and Bromwich, inadequately explained these charges. Right?
Next week, prosecutors will offer jurors their closing argument. In that argument, it will be their job to put all the witness testimony in order to tell a coherent story. They'll ask the jury to find the defendant guilty of committing specific crimes.
ReplyDeleteIf the prosecution fails to make a clear explanation of which laws were broken by specific acts, there's a great chance the jury will find the prosecution failed to prove its case.
In addition, the judge will explan the relevant law to the jury. He'll give them careful instruction on precisely what they must decide before they can return a verdict. Once again, if the jury finds the prosecution fell down on the job, the defendant may very well be found not guilty.
Everything else is guesswork. Write a billion words about who has or hasn't explained the charges and it won't change the simplest of facts. There are only two explanations that matter--the ones offered by the prosecution and the judge.
As to the quality of reporting on the trial, I don't have enough evidence to say whether the Times has bungled its assignment. Has any document or explanation in court yet provided a full accounting of the answers Our Host finds wanting? Has any member of the DA's staff made such an explanation available? I don't know the answer to that. If not, I suppose it would be the Times' job to tell us.
Anyway, today's post and all the rest of the ink spilled in analyzing the trial is commentary, nothing more. The outcome will turn on the two explanations we'll hear next week.
Your points about the importance of the prosecution's closing arguments and the judge's instructions to the jury are well taken. Somerby's main critique is that the media, specifically the New York Times, has not adequately explained the legal basis for the charges against Trump, leaving the public and potentially jurors without a clear understanding of the case. He argues this could potentially lead to misinterpretations of case.
DeleteYes, that’s what Somerby says his point is. But, he may also be implying that no clear understanding of the charges is being reported, because the charges don’t make sense.
DeleteGood point. He could be suggesting that the difficulty in reporting the charges points to an issue with the charges themselves ... they might not be as solid or clear-cut as they should be.
DeleteI have linked to articles where the charges and legal theory are explained in full, Somerby is not being honest, and neither are his fanboys.
DeleteExplained perhaps.
DeleteIn full perhaps not.
Explained in full.
DeleteBob could believe anything. For all we know, he may believe sun spots caused Trump to steal classified documents (or maybe, like most -people, he thinks Putin told him to). Unfortunately, we'll never know, since Bob refuses to clearly state anything.
DeleteTDH is the rorschach test for trolls.
Somerby was much more impressive when he couldn't understand Einstein. Not so much in this case. It seems that we haven't tested the lower limits of what he cannot understand. I suspect that if he really put his mind to it, he might not understand a grocery list.
Delete1:55 Let's try to be a little more focused if we could.
ReplyDeleteHelping an election campaign by buying a derogatory story and not publishing it is not per se illegal, so that can’t be the crime concealed by the falsified records.
ReplyDeleteFalsified records are the crime that Trump covered up by falsifying records.
DeleteIf I commit arson to collect insurance money, and then burn down the insurance company's investigation lab to cover it up, I still committed the same crime twice, the second time to cover up the first.
You're welcome.
This information comes from articles in mainstream media. Somerby’s claims are wrong and misguided.
ReplyDeleteWhich claims exactly?
ReplyDeleteAsked and answered.
ReplyDeleteYou’re out of order!
Still, your moronic questions are amusing.
Bob asks a question, and the answer is:
ReplyDeleteYes, more than likely.
So what? You mad, bro?
Somerby’s claim was that the New York Times never adequately explained the legal basis for the charges against Trump.
ReplyDeleteHere's an article that I find worrisome
ReplyDeleteJury Can Convict Trump Without Believing Michael Cohen
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2024/05/22/jury_can_convict_trump_without_believing_michael_cohen_150986.html
I do not have the expertise or the patience to evaluate Lanny Davis's argument.
There are documents and other witnesses.
DeleteSomerby only cited a couple of articles that did not explain in depth the legal basis because those articles had a different purpose. The NY Times has had plenty of articles explaining the legal basis, although they are behind a paywall.
ReplyDeleteThat Somerby ignores those articles, points to his right wing bias.
Having said that, most of us here are liberals/progressives/leftists who do not hold The NY Times in high regard, as they have a well known right wing neoliberal bias, which is unsurprising since they are a corporation primarily seeking profits.
Back in the day, Somerby would eviscerate the Times for being little more than stenographers for the Republican Party. Nowadays Somerby has adopted that endeavor himself and only complains about the Times in such a way as to cause harm to the blue tribe, the blue tribe being his punching bag to process his bitterness at life.
Dershowitz, not a Trump supporter, said that
ReplyDeleteThere is no case, but due to the Jury being mostly Democrats, and due to an outrageously biased and unfair judge, there's a good chance that Trump will be convicted.
Don't let Dershowitz fool you. He is a Trump supporter.
DeleteGo ahead and take Alan's word for it.
DeleteSaid a matronly middle aged Eastern European masseuse in Jeffrey Epstein's employ.
Hey, David, will you be included in the "unifiied Reich"? Since you have family sent to the ovens the last time, I was just curious if you were experiencing any cognitive dissonance?
DeleteI'll only vote for Trump, if I can get a close-up photo of David in Cal's face as he is pushed into the cattle car with the rest of the Jews.
DeleteSome things are just worth it.