WEDNESDAY, MAY 1, 2024
O'Donnell gets it right: Lawrence O'Donnell remembers. He also broke out of a type of box with some comments he made last night.
In this age of "segregation by viewpoint," it's very rare to see someone on cable news do what O'Donnell did. He made a significant observation which may have tended to tilt away from the more typical line of his own political / cultural tribe.
As he started his MSNBC program at 10 o'clock Eastern, O'Donnell recalled police conduct from his own late high school / early college years. As he spoke, Columbia students were being arrested, and removed from Hamilton Hall, by the NYPD.
In our view, O'Donnell's aim was true. Speaking with Alex Wagner, he praised the progress put on display by the behavior of New York City's police. Here's the bulk of what he said:
O'DONNELL (4/30/24): Good evening, Alex. I have of course been watching all your coverage here, and what we have seen on the videos so far is actually the most organized and calmest and most professional police intervention we have ever seen on a college campus.
There is not a huge collection of those. But there is enough, beginning in 1968, to show how different this one is.
The 1968 version [at Columbia], those 700 arrested students were gleefully beaten by the NYPD. In those days, the police departments that were going into campuses were gleeful about the violence that they were visiting upon those anti-war protesters. And it was relentless, and it was vicious, and it was cruel, and it was extended to the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago where what happened there was declared, by the commission who investigated, "a police riot."
That's not what we are seeing tonight. Our screen has been filled with what clearly do appear to be Columbia students walking out calmly, escorted by a police officer, both of them, the police officer and the student, walking very calmly to whatever that arrest destination is, what vehicle they will put those kids in and take them where they are going.
So this, this so far, is nothing like what we've seen in the previous dramatic and violent interventions by police departments in the past on campuses.
It could get worse. We could get an after-action report that indicates that really rough things went on there. But so far, there hasn't been even the slightest hint of violence in what we've seen tonight.
To watch O'Donnell's statement, you can start by clicking here. We'll note that some of the people arrested last night may not have been college students. That said:
As far as we know, O'Donnell's portrait of the late 1960s is basically accurate. The "police riot" which took place in Chicago is, of course, a matter of historical record.
It was during that era that our own modern-day Blue America began losing contact with the white working-class contingent of modern-day Red America. At that time, the stresses of the Vietnam War and the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius were driving a powerful wedge between different groups.
There was a lot of imperfect conduct on the part of angry members of the white working class. There was a lot of imperfect conduct from some of Blue America's various contingents.
In Blue America, we've never quite abandoned the condescension and disdain we began to show toward our obvious lessers at that point in time. On the whole, we've failed to walk back that tribal mistake. One result may be the election of Donald J. Trump to a second stint in the White House.
New York's finest skipped the violence last night. O'Donnell chose to take notice.
Our blue tribe rarely has anything good to say about those who live and work on the other side of our failing culture's lines of demarcation and class divide.
Last night, O'Donnell praised the NYPD for its professionalism. It seems to us that the gentleman had the right idea.
Here in red America, the real America, we don’t want no woke cops.
ReplyDeleteShame about the murder rate in red states. Maybe they do need more woke cops.
DeleteHere in red America, the real America, we don't want no proper grammar.
DeleteThe white working class still votes blue to the extent that workers are unionized. It is the South and other anti-union states where workers vote red. The US has become more pro-union lately, which hels Biden. Only law enforcement unions support Trump.
ReplyDeleteSomerby neglects to link the 1968 protesters back to campuses so that he can call the educated people the disdainful elites who look down on red voters now. Somerby is the hater and it is college professors and those with degrees who he hates. I doubt there ate the same divisions on the ground. He is projecting his own dislike for those who shunned him at Harvard onto today’s conflicts which have nothing to do with 1968, except there were cops in Daley’s authoritarian Chicago.
Somerby’s demon was the lady who told him he couldn’t enter the dining hall without a tie, but she was working class, so his analogy doesn’t work, but he still resents her disdain for his spoiled rich kid shenanigans. It fuels this blog.
Anonymouse 4:18pm, you’ve got Bob’s cafeteria cash register employee story totally wrong.
DeleteNo doubt that’s intentional on your part,
No, I don't have it wrong. One of them didn't have a tie so he put a shoelace around his neck and then wanted to debate what makes a tie a tie. That is an adolescent asshole maneuver that the woman has probably encounter every single year with freshmen in that dining hall. Somerby didn't admit that it was him who pulled the stunt, but anyone can read between the lines.
DeleteI have no doubt the woman embarrassed him in front of peers by failing to appreciate his stunt, and that is part of his obvious animosity toward the university and any figure of authority there, especially those professors who failed him (not recognizing the quality of his sophistry) in his philosophy major courses. It takes a pretty big ego insult to still be bitter about this stuff 55 years later.
It wasn't the cash register employee but the door guardian. At Harvard, all freshmen are required to live on campus. Their meals are included in their dorm fees, so there is no cashier. The dress code may have made it easier to tell who was a legitimate student and who was not entitled to eat there (because they hadn't paid the fees). An asshole student wouldn't have understood that. The reverse snobbery of the late 60s would assume it was a class issue.
Milos Forman's version of Hair has a scene where the hippies break into a debutante party and scandalize the rich people by behaving badly. Somerby no doubt thought he was doing something similar, instead of being an ass.
“Somerby didn't admit that it was him who pulled the stunt, but anyone can read between the lines.”
Delete“Somerby no doubt thought he was doing something similar, instead of being an ass.”
No actually, everyone can tell that it’s you who behave in this manner.
Doubtlessly, it is you who makes this sort of scene. It’s you who are high handed in this way. It’s you who wish to diminish others. It’s you who is a shameless and belligerent militant liar. You are the person who was there and treated this woman so dishonestly.
Everyone can see what kind of person you are from your posts. It’s too bad the employees at Harvard didn’t kick you thru the door that day. You weren’t a student there, you were impersonating one just like you impersonate being a human being.
Gibberish
DeleteAnonymouse 11:31pm, yet another one of your attempts to cover up for what you did in a Harvard cafeteria.
DeleteI have never been near a Harvard cafeteria.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:24am, you don’t admit it, but it’s obvious to everyone. You gave yourself away via your disdainful post in which you attempt to blame Bob for your actions in that Harvard cafeteria.
DeleteWhy it’s as plain as the nose on your face.
anonymous 4:18, , 9:16 - aside from Cecilia's response, you claim as if it's an indisputable fact, with no evidence whatsoever, that it was TDH, not a third person, who was this student years ago at Harvard who had this incident involving a tie in the cafeteria. You treat sheer speculation as if it were proven fact. It's stupid.
DeleteOK. But how did O'Donnell "tilt away from the typical line" of his "own tribe"? Our Host forgot to say.
ReplyDeleteQiB -- O'Donnell praised police. The typical leftist line is to criticize police.
DeleteO'Donnell was talking about a specific current news event, not an imaginary party line. He was observing evidence provided by his own eyes.
DeleteSorry David, that was in the old days. Now the typical Trumpist line is defund the FBI.
DeleteToday's leftist line is to improve training and help the police deal with difficult situations via support services and community policing.
DeleteThe typical right wing line is to call beating police on the capital steps a nonviolent protest.
DeleteUnamused, and it’s a leftist move denounce their country and then co-opt and usurp an area of a city or campus, claim it as being their own zone/nation and to dare the rightful owners, custodians, and the police to try and stop their usurpation of this property.
DeleteI think they call this secession. .
Cecelia, your point about the events of January 6th is what? Last time I checked, the word secession was being bandied about by Texas politicians. The term white separatist describes who, exactly, in your special world? But you are well entitled to call the act of holing up in a campus building secession if that's your version of reality.
DeleteUnamused, I’m talking about “Autonomous Zones” wherein protesters claim (squat on) some property and declare it their own. They then commence to set up a their own government and to bust the heads of officials who try to oust them, as well as regular people who try to go in. That is the mindset of secessionists.
DeleteCecelia,
DeleteRelax. You can ignore them. Just like you ignore what the protest is about.
This whining and crying from snowflakes on the Right was once adorable, but now it is starting to get so out of hand, it's effecting the progress of the nation.
Anonymouse flying monkey 8:20am, your usual mindless spiel, and by July you’ll have morphed all those protesting champions for humanity into the Proud Boys. .
Delete"New York's finest skipped the violence last night."
ReplyDeleteObviously, this is the official narrative (the "novelization"?), but it's not exactly what I heard on Democracy Now!
Remember when Hizzoner reacted to the convention protests by telling the cops to shoot to kill! Good times. I bet Somerby was loving that back in the day.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that Bob's favorite president is calmly reacting to anti-war protests by calling them all racists.
ReplyDeleteI am a bit annoyed by Somerby's habit of saying someone gets it right when they say something he personally agrees with. This is the same guy who is too tentative to call anything a lie and who won't say what's true or not. By those standards, he has no idea whether O'Donnell has gotten anything right or not. It is just Somerby's opinion. And if he is willing to express that kind of opinion, why not others?
ReplyDeleteOh yes, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck. Sean Hannidy,…. No condescension there.
ReplyDeleteTaught dim hatefulness by these and
others, it’s the over represented hicks
in the sticks, whose votes (through the
electoral college, the white person’s
affirmative action) who have given up
on the Country and don’t seem to even
like the idea of Democracy and fair
play anymore. People like Bob and
Bill Maher, and the constant attention
in outlets like the New York Times,
fuel their vain confusion that pulls
down the whole Country.
There has been some good
commentary on MSNBC about the
nature of Civil Disobedience.
Candice Owens called Jan 6
Civil Disobedience. That’s probably
OK with Bob.
AnonymousMay 1, 2024 at 10:43 AM
ReplyDeleteMike, one need not feel desperate to be genuinely concerned about potential consequences. Many, aside from yourself, argue that effective decision-making, especially in politics, should be steered by reasoned analysis rather than desperation. But please list the specific actions you propose as responses to your desperation and we can analyze their viability.
I assume this might include the belief that endorsing falsehoods is justifiable if they serve a perceived greater good—essentially, that the ends justify the means. Putting aside the danger of unintended consequences, a strategy of advocating unethical behavior out of desperation, as a general principle, is fraught with challenges and generally considered a bad idea.
Mike LMay 1, 2024 at 10:32 PM
What needs to be done: the best informed, most articulate people on our side need to do something that probably very few have any appetite for: they need to engage with the other side -- patiently and persistently explain to the them what is really going on. We need to invade their information bubbles (or "silos" in Bob's language) to break the spell. Not in a trolling or competitive way (not to "own" them), but clearly, persistently, patiently explain how their belief system is simply not true. They have been lied to. The election wasn't stolen, just to take one example. There are people who can do this -- Bernie Sanders was pretty good at it during the 2016 campaign -- went on Fox News and got some positive audience reactions. Jessica Tarlov does a decent job. But we need many, many more people who will not just write or speak in friendly environments to friendly audiences, but will go into "enemy territory" and break through the propaganda. Biden and Harris should go on Fox News. Promote the visit weeks in advance. Insist on a live, uncut interview. Draw in as many viewers as possible. Have their team prep them for it by watching Fox News 24/7 leading up to the visit and come up with substantive, fact-based rebuttals to Fox narratives. It would shatter the cartoonish caricature of Biden, Harris, and Democrats in general that Fox has created in their audience's minds. Remember when Bob got the impression that Biden was an absolute wreck and could barely speak or function because Bob had absorbed so much Fox nonsense? And then he watched the State of the Union and was surprised at how well Biden did? That's the kind of mind shift we need to try to create by invading red silos.
Fascism isn't an ideology to be debated, it's a set of actions that need to be fought.
Delete"We'll note that a few of the protesters may not have been students." Better not to note at all, Bob. The large majority of protesters arrested last night at Columbia were reported as non-students, roughly 70 out of 108, as I recall hearing on network news. This number is not "a few" as Bob would have it, inexplicably. And it certainly is not a " may not have been" proposition, as Bob would likewise have it, again inexplicably.
ReplyDeleteAll 109 protesters arrested at Columbia were students. 100% of them.
DeleteExcept the ones who weren't.
Delete"NYC doctor, serial anti-Israel protester, 47, among non-students arrested at Columbia, CUNY raids"
https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/doctor-known-anti-israel-protester-among-the-282-arrested-at-columbia-city-college-of-ny/
No, 100% of the Columbia protesters arrested were students. The doctor you mention was arrested at City College, not Columbia. 100% of the Columbia protesters arrested were students.
Delete100% of the Columbia protesters arrested were students with no exception.
Deletehttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-veteran-activist-joined-columbia-protesters-police-call-her-a-professional-agitator/ar-AA1o0H2e?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Delete1:35 keep repeating yourself if it makes you feel good.
The protester mentioned in that article was not arrested.
DeleteAll of the protesters arrested in Columbia U. takeover of Hamilton Hall were students. 100%.
You idiots really can't read for shit can you? What the fuck is up with that?
DeleteAre you drunk or just trolling? What the fuck us up posting multiple links you think back up your assertions but don't at all?
DeleteUnamused, you're an idiot. Go fuck yourself.
DeleteYour vitriole is quite charming, 1:55. I stated specifically that it was reported on network news last night that a majority of protesters at Columbia were not students. Mayor Eric Adams said they included outside agitators- the 109 arrested- and indicated that he would provide a list of their names to Columbia officials. But why should he bother, since you already have that list and have cross checked it against the list of students enrolled at Columbia? Great, nice work, Sherlock. So let's see it. I reported what I heard from the MSM last night and that, for the record, could be inaccurate. You have done much better, and are to be lauded for such. You collected the 109 names and cross referenced them against the student enrollment data to confidently assert with 100% accuracy that all were students. So it's see the list, Show us the list. Better yet, don't and call me some more names.. Which is it? Put up or STFU
DeleteWho's the one who can't read? The headline itself states there were non-students arrested at BOTH universities. And you've cited exactly zero sources to back up your categorical claim. Fuck you.
Deletehttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-veteran-activist-joined-columbia-protesters-police-call-her-a-professional-agitator/ar-AA1o0H2e?ocid=BingNewsSerp
DeleteThis woman referenced by the mayor wasn’t on Columbia’s campus this week, isn’t among the protesters who were arrested and has not been accused of any crime.
This is interesting - this lying cop tries to make people think the students who barricaded themselves used some kind of scary industrial chain but that was a lie. It's a common chain that is even recommended by campus security.
Deletehttps://x.com/Morning_Joe/status/1785636351330713667
https://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Noose-Bicycle-Chain-Evolution/dp/B001SMSUNI
https://publicsafety.columbia.edu/content/crime-prevention-programs#!#%2Fbikelock
Of course most of these protesters are Soros-paid activists.
ReplyDeleteI don’t even protest, I just troll, and he supports me generously.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:38pm, no kidding,
DeleteThere’s seems to be a point of unity between Israel supporters and detractors of Israel.
Deletehttps://x.com/claytravis/status/1785814840650477716?s=42&t=oYvKLjVc8YzJIvwKoQTYBQ
Regarding 11:49, it's Alabama, did you expect better? They would boycott the Virgin Mary if it got them out of class and within 20 feet of a keg. As far as Soros is concerned, just put down the box wine immediately, Cecelia, before you become a sad parody of yourself. Not that it wouldn't be entertaining. Name one individual who has spent more of his money in the advancement of democracy in Eastern Europe then George Soros.But more to your, and that pillar of truth, Ted Cruz's musings about George Soros funding the protests: it's been researched and:
Deletehttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-veteran-activist-joined-columbia-protesters-police-call-her-a-professional-agitator/ar-AA1o0H2e?ocid=BingNewsSerp
And now, for the Ironic Lack of Self Awareness Award! That goes to whoever wants to credit a Jewish Holocaust survivor with funding a so-called anti-semitic uprising. Well played indeed.
Unamused, what’s ironic is that your post in which you uncharacteristically go gushing over the goodness of anyone, let alone the social enginer/paymaster, has rendered you into a parody. Certainly into a whole different cat.
DeleteParroting unsubstantiated right wing propaganda about a Jewish Holocaust survivor funding ostensibly antisemitic protests is not a particularly good look, even for you, Cecelia.
DeleteHa-ha. Soros-bots are outraged.
DeleteLet me guess, 1:55 pops up over here like a wack a mole after embarrassing himself up there. Same modus operendi. Wouldn't make second string middle school debate club so decides to show up here and name call. Well played, junior. Now try to interject something that isn't 100% bullshit, for a change. Or not. Still waiting on that list of yours, cricket.
DeleteI am not 1:55.
DeleteThe Soros Anonymousekateers.
DeleteIt’s a living.
I drive a luxury car, I've remodeled my house, and I dine at the finest restaurants -- all possible because George Soros pays me to troll the Daily Howler.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:15am, I’m sure there are other campaigns to be run and that other blogs enjoy your company
DeleteCecilia, my impression is that the "red" tribe has an idiotic obsession with George Soros, part of the endemic of brainlessness that is so rampant these days (and maybe always). What did you mean when you stated that "most of these protesters are Soros-paid activists?" ("Of course," no less). Were you being ironic or were you kidding? Maybe I didn't pick up some type of wit on your part, If you were serious, what is the evidence that Soros is "funding most of these activists?" (Another question might be - what if he is? what's wrong with that?)
DeleteOperation 36:
ReplyDeleteRecruit civilian Fanny Flexen
Response
DeleteShe then decided to release a rather large fanny-burp into the close quarters of the elevator.
At UCLA outside agitators attacked the pro-Palestinian campers with clubs and fireworks. The cops stood and watched.
ReplyDeleteInvoking George Soros in whatever context that right wingers feel threatened, as an attempt to delegitimize their perceived adversaries, is always a tell that they think they are playing a losing hand. That and any mention of Antifa are cries of desperation. Pitiful, yes. Can we help you? No. You're free to flail away.
ReplyDeleteUnamused, right, but it’s just plain common sense to call Somerby and his fans agents of Putin.
DeleteYou shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Delete