MONDAY: When is a "deportation" something else?

MONDAY, MARCH 31, 2025

Uninquiring minds may not want to know: According to a new report in Mediaite, there she went again.

"Shame on you," the youngster said—though we wouldn't say that she "shouted." The report begins in the manner shown, and it provides the videotape:

‘Shame on You!’ Karoline Leavitt Scolds Reporter Over Question About White House’s Own Deportation Guidance

Andrew Feinberg, the White House correspondent for The Independent, went back and forth with White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt Monday about criteria DHS uses to classify illegal migrants as foreign combatants.

Leavitt shouted, “Shame on you!” at Feinberg at one point after he noted some migrants can be classified as members of the Venezuelan prison gang Tren de Aragua and become eligible for deportation to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act over symbols in their tattoos and their clothing.

The White House press secretary disagreed with Feinberg, who cited the federal government’s own documents on the matter.

Feinberg said, “You can get classified [as Tren de Aragua] by simply having certain symbols in your tattoos and wearing certain streetwear brands. That alone is enough to get someone classified as TDA and sent to El Salvador.”

Leavitt fired back, “That’s not true, actually, Andrew.”

The report continues from there. It includes a document which described what we would regard as the mind-boggling way a foreign national can acquire the eight "points" which get him classified as a Tren de Aragua gang member.

We'd never seen the criteria for "deportation to El Salvador" laid out that way. The criteria strike us as something out of a dystopian cartoon—but that's not this point of this post.

Once again, our basic question today would be this:

Why is this shipping of people to El Salvador being referred to as a "deportation?"

In a normal use of that term, this is what would typically happen, at least in the modern context:

A foreign national would be returned to his country of origin—to his country of citizenship.  What happens after he arrives there (in most cases, nothing) would be up to the local authorities.

That isn't what's happening with the people who are being shipped to El Salvador. In this case, they're being shipped to a nation which isn't their country of origin—and they're being shipped there for immediate imprisonment.

Should this act of rendition by referred to as a "deportation?" In the interest of accurate description, we'd be inclined to look for a different word. 

Along the way, we'd wonder on what legal authority the federal government is rendering people into a brutal foreign prison system without any attempt at establishing that the person in question has committed some sort of crime. 

What's the legal authority on which this somewhat peculiar practice is being conducted? We've seen no one ask.

Meanwhile, what's in a word? On last Thursday night's All In, Chris Hayes eschewed the word "prison" in discussing these renditions. He opted for "gulag" instead. 

(To see him do so, click here.)

That's the word we'd been using! At the end of the segment, Hayes was praised by a guest for his choice of words. That guest was Noah Lanard of Mother Jones, co-author of this report:

“You’re Here Because of Your Tattoos”
The Trump administration sent Venezuelans to El Salvador’s most infamous prison. Their families are looking for answers.

What's in a word? "It's closer to a factory farm than to a prison," Lenard then said. Almost surely, some of the people shipped to that "infamous prison" weren't gang members at all. 

They were shipped away to a brutal place, possibly never to return. However we might think of this, this isn't some simple, recognizable act of "deportation."

Almost surely, some of those people weren't gang members at all! Plainly, Karoline Leavitt doesn't seem to be up to the task of caring about such possibilities. 

To her, they're all "vicious" gang members, no further questions asked. In fairness, that may be the best she can do at this point in her life.

The recent "arrest" of the student at Tufts made us think of the arrest of Anne Frank. It sent us back to Francine Prose's remarkable book about that world-famous, cosmic breakdown in human behavior.

(Francine Prose: Anne Frank: The Book, the Life, the Afterlife. 2009.)

We thought of the person(s) who arrested Anne Frank as we saw the Tufts student taken away. In every population, there are people who are willing to do such things, possibly even eager. 

That's simply the way our species is built. In our morning reports, we'll arrive at that topic by the end of the week.

81 comments:

  1. Eichmann in Cal isn't gong to like this Somerby post.

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  2. You can’t dismiss atrocities by saying that’s just the way people are, as Somerby does here. We have a responsibility to hold our representatives and institutions accountable. We are better than the Nazis.

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  3. Today another grad student self-deported because the govt yanked her visa without cause. This is part of Trump’s war on science and expertise.

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  4. This was the first time I learned that we use 8 criteria for concluding that someone is a member of Tren de Aragua. Here's what I would like to know:
    1. What are the 8 criteria?
    2. How are they combined to make a final decision? Does someone need to satisfy all 8? One of the 8? Or, is there some formula based on the number of criteria met?

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    1. Many of these questions can be answered, not surprisingly, by googling "criteria to be considered Tren de Agua."

      Don't be scared. You can do it.

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    2. Thanks @5:58. I am struck by the lack of honesty on both sides. The reporter's question was misleading. It implied that tattoos alone could get some one treated as Tren de Agua. Leavitt's answer was unhelpful. She was wrong to chastise the reporter for asking this question. In effect, she said that ICE people cannot be criticized, which is ridiculous. Leavitt could have clarified the situation by honestly explaining the formula, but she chose not to do so.

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    3. Fuck off, Dickhead. Disgracefully attacking the press is a daily with this gang of fascists. You voted for it, so fuck off with your phony concern.

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    4. DiC - The other day you attacked me for disregarding suffering as long as it hurts the Felon. My simple motives were trying to get you to stop accepting every dumb thing he says as the truth, and that you stop regurgitating his false statements like they mean something.

      War based on teritorial pissing is some of the worst. (That is why you are asking the Felon to tone down his Panama, Greenland, Mexico, and Canada comments - right David?). Putin should not have invaded in 2014, breaking a treaty; or in 2022, breaking a cease fire. God you are weird.

      Delete
    5. "My simple motives were trying to get you to ...."

      Fatal mistake. It'll never happen.

      Never.

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    6. Arty -- thanks for clarifying your motives.

      I agree with you that territorial war can be terrible. But, we all know that Trump talks wildly. That kind of talk may be objectionable, but it's not going to lead to war in the countries you mentioned. Trump may talk like a war maker, but the Abraham Accords and his relationship with Kim Jong-Un show he's actually a pretty effective peace-maker.

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    7. I was just about to say the same thing about Mahmoud Khalil.

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    8. Bugger off Nazi David. Too dumb to comprehend what eeezz up.

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  5. "That's simply the way our species is built."

    Small sample size, Dr. Conflation.

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  6. Trump’s foreign policy: get Japan and South Korea to join China against U.S.

    https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/2/231230/China,-Japan,-South-Korea-will-jointly-respond-to-US-tariffs,-Chinese-state-media-says/

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  7. "A foreign national would be returned to his country of origin—to his country of citizenship. "

    You're wrong, Bob. You're making up shit. "Deportation" simply means kicking someone out of the country. Destination doesn't matter at all.

    "On last Thursday night's All In, Chris Hayes eschewed the word "prison" in discussing these renditions. He opted for "gulag" instead. "

    All I get from reading this factoid is that Chris Hayes is a Soros-bots. Fine. Who cares.

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    1. These Trump-Musk cultists will blithely excuse the most extreme and obvious of big-government human rights abuses. They are exactly the type of people who would have arrested Anne Frank.

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    2. Destination doesn't matter at all.. This is nonsense. Destination matters. There's no set of laws under which you're allowed to disappear people. Not US laws, not international laws. You're making shit up.

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    3. No, for deportation destination doesn't matter. Like I said, "deportation" simply means kicking someone out of the country.

      And there's nothing new or special about it, Soros-bot; see the The UK and Rwanda Migration and Economic Development Partnership, for example; kicking all illegals and asylum seekers to Rwanda.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwanda_asylum_plan

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    4. Fuck you, Trump cultist. People who haven't been shown to have committed serious crimes are being thrown into a prison known for its human rights abuses, possibly never to be heard from again. And you're argument in defense of that is what exactly? Something about the definition of a word? And "two wrongs make a right"? Do you even listen to yourself, dumb fuck?

      Delete

    5. My heart is bleeding for illegal alien gangbangers.

      They could do so much good in America, if ruthless trump cultists didn't send them to horrible El Salvador.

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    6. I'll save my empathy for the children raped by Republican politicians., thank you very much.

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    7. "illegal alien gangbangers". What a dumb fuck. The whole problem is that we don't know that to be true. And in fact, there are credible reports that it's NOT true in several instances. But keep loyally repeating the same dumb talking points, Trump-bot.

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    8. No, it's you pretending that you don't know, idiot-moonbat. Who do you think they are, retard, brain surgeons?

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    9. 10;09,
      Cope, Soros-bot.

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    10. ;Deportation" simply means kicking someone out of the country. Destination doesn't matter at all.'

      Sounds like the trumptards think we could shoot them into space.

      Way to think, trumptards.

      Delete
  8. A shorter version: Trump administration is kidnapping people off the streets and shipping them to a hellhole prison in El Salvador. This is beyond the pale and Trump and the whole fucking lot should be impeached -- and, perhaps, deported to El Salvador.

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    1. I don't remember you being so pious when Saint Obama, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, was compiling his exclusion lists for his drone program. When he was annihilating the most prosperous country in Africa. And on and on and on.

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    2. In comparison to Trump, Obama was a piker in the use of drones.

      Delete
    3. Yes, Saint Obama, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, humanly murdered hundreds of people and obliterated a couple of countries. While Trump horribly deported some illegal aliens gangbangers.

      Delete
    4. I'll take your word that Trump was too weak to defend the citizens of the United States, Soros-bot.
      Whatever you say, for sure.

      Delete
    5. I don't remember you being so pious when Saint Obama
      This one is kind of obvious: you don't know me. Secondly, as I have pointed out: this administration is kidnapping people from the US. Finally, it's only a matter of time before they are doing this with Greencard holders, followed by naturalized citizens, followed by natural-born citizens.
      Yes, I was appalled when the Bush administration was kidnapping people (I know before your time); appalled when Obama was bombing Yemen. This is a new chapter -- a qualitatively new chapter.
      The US is a failed state and a fledging fascist regime.

      Delete
    6. While Trump horribly deported some illegal aliens gangbangers. Again, as a statement of fact: you don't know who got kidnapped. This is just a plain fact. There's no doubt that some of the kidnapped were not members of any gang. We'll never find out.

      Delete
    7. We do not know whether or not all the deportees were gangbangers. Our opinion may be influenced by how much we like or dislike Trump. But, we'll probably never really know for sure.

      What it seems to have come to is a battle of spin. Trump committed horrendous civil rights infractions and ruined the lives of some innocent people. Or, Trump saved us from monsters who will rape and murder us. I wonder which narrative has more voter support

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    8. Every government in the world (or almost all of them) detains and deports people, Soros-bot @12:25-26 .

      If you want to call it kidnapping, fine, you're just declaring yourself a moron, that's all.

      Delete
    9. 1:35,
      Sure thing, Soros-bot.
      Trump is nothing special as a leader, Sir.
      He's no better or worse than Netanyahu, Maduro, or any other national leader. He's the follower, we all chose to lead us, Soros-bot.

      Delete
    10. Soros-bot at 1:35,
      So you think the USA should copy what every other government in the world does?
      Asking for those of us jealous of Universal Healthcare.

      Delete
    11. Soros-bots, like 1:35, don't need Universal Healthcare. But they could use a software upgrade.

      Delete
    12. We do not know whether or not all the deportees were gangbangers. Our opinion may be influenced by how much we like or dislike Trump. But, we'll probably never really know for sure.

      What it seems to have come to is a battle of spin. Trump committed horrendous civil rights infractions and ruined the lives of some innocent people. Or, Trump saved us from monsters who will rape and murder us. I wonder which narrative has more voter support

      The mindless, vacuous sophistry is just breathtaking.
      1. We already do know that not all -- by a long shot -- of the kidnapped were "gangbangers".
      2. Gangbanger is not a precise term in any sense. Essentially, the zeroed in on people based on their tattoos and clothing. Does this seem reasonable.
      3. In any case, they got shipped off to a prison in a third country, not a country of their origin. They got kidnapped and imprisoned without a trial or any sort of a hearing.
      4. The idea that Trump saved us from murderers and rapists -- with some collateral damage of imprisoning innocent people -- is ludicrous. There was literally not a single crime mentioned in relation to this "gang".
      5. Lastly, gangs like this, don't wantonly murder and rape. They are in business of distributing drugs. They have no interest in conspicuously attracting unwanted attention.

      I hope, somewhere deep inside, you see that your post, David, is sophistry. You toss out words, but you are not interested in looking for meaning.

      Delete
    13. Don't worry, David. Fascists, like Trump, have no history of doing this kind of thing to Jews.
      /s

      Delete

  9. Every day you, Bob Somerby, read the most infamous idiot-Democrat rag. Both online and paper editions. Correct?

    So, why did you choose to disappear this amazing exposé:

    Biden Lied About Everything, Including Nuclear Risk, During Ukraine Operation


    Sourced to tone-deaf "U.S. officials," a massive New York Times exposé reveals an unprecedented betrayal of American voters, but also Ukraine.

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    1. We were in a proxy war the whole time. Our generals were making tactical decisions the whole time. Biden knowingly mislead the public the whole time. What does the disgusting propaganda whore Heather Cox Richardson who cheerled this fiasco the whole time have to say about this?

      Delete
    2. We were deliberately using euphemisms to avoid political and legal accountability:

      “If you ever get asked the question, ‘Did you pass a target to the Ukrainians?’ you can legitimately not be lying when you say, ‘No, I did not.’”

      U.S. official, explaining why targets were labeled ‘points of interest’

      Delete
    3. I guess the trolling commenters are awaiting instructions from their propaganda blogs on how to spin this.

      God forbid they have an original idea or thought of their own. Being sheep, they don't even know what that feels like or means. Fucking losers.

      Delete
    4. It's hilarious the things the Right pretends to be upset about.
      I haven't seen them this worked-up sense they pretended to care about grocery prices.

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    5. US helping its ally…the horror. Just so glad that trump ended that conflict on day one. Thank you, sir.

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    6. I am quite certain that a Matt Tiabbi publication accurately describes the content of a NYT article. The line about NATO holding together by a thread seems very even handed and accurate. No ax to grind here.

      Delete
    7. Bah bah baaaaaah

      Delete
    8. Meanwhile, Republican voters are throwing temper tantrums all over the country, because drag queens are protecting schoolchildren from sexual predation by Republican politicians.
      You can't make this stuff up.

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  10. Lenard said, almost surely some of the people shipped to El Salvador weren't gang members at all. The article doesn't supply his evidence for this assertion. Of course th epoint system is imperfecr. Any procedure for determining guilt is imperfect.

    Tren de Aragua doesn't have membership list, so there will never be a way to be certain that someone is a member of this gang. OTOH it's terribly important to get rid of these evil gang members. Does ICE's point system strike an acceptable balance? Our court system will decide.

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    1. You've ignored an important question: Why is all this being done in secret? Why won't the government show the evidence against the accused?

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    2. On the one hand, it’s unconstitutional to kill your political enemies. OTOH, the e need to protect children from the sexual predation of the Republican Party.
      Hopefully Leonard Leo is low on cash.

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    3. No one has any doubts that the deported are illegal aliens. Deporting illegal aliens is perfectly normal (unless one is an idiot-Democrat, obviously). And if the reputable El Salvador authorities (presidential approval rating is constantly around 90%) decide their new arrivals aren't dangerous, they will, no doubt, let them go.

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    4. If it's all "perfectly normal," 10:47, then my question stands: Why the secrecy? And why the need to invoke a wartime act from 1798?

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    5. What secrecy? I saw names of the deported published in a newspaper.

      As for the legalities of it, I guess it was deemed the most expedient route. I'm sure DHS has hundreds of lawyers working day and night, searching for the most expedient solutions.

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    6. We're doing the illegals a favor, shipping them out of danger before the shooting war begins.

      Delete
    7. Your link answers your question, 3:35 AM:
      "... invoke the rarely used state secrets privilege in a bid to avoid giving a federal judge details on two deportation flights"

      They want saboteur Democrat judges to fuck off and let them do their jobs. And who can blame them?

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    8. These are the same people who want corrupt and wasteful government judges to enforce contracts. As if that was a way to run an adult nation.

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    9. "No one has any doubts that the deported are illegal aliens."

      Correction: "No moron has any doubts that the deported are illegal aliens."

      Delete
    10. "Does ICE's point system strike an acceptable balance?"

      What balance would be acceptable to you, DIC? How many innocent people can be sent to a lawless El Salvadoran gulag in your picture of America?

      Delete
  11. "Of course the system isn't perfect." How about having government agents round you up on the street and put you in a hell hole because you bear some physical resemblance to a criminal. Other people's human rights never enter into your calculations. You would be begging for a polygraph under the circumstances. If the government wants to deport a student like the one at Tufts, why are they not putting her on a plane back to her family instead of some inhumane prison in Louisiana, wasting taxpayer money? They are goddamn sadistic shitheads. You have no problem with that, being mindlessly tribal in a way that confers legitimacy to these actions as well as the genocide on the other side of the world. It's all black and white for you.

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    1. "How about having government agents round you up on the street and put you in a hell hole because you bear some physical resemblance to a criminal."

      Sounds bad, but not as bad as living in a country where minorities have equal rights, Soros-bot.

      Delete
    2. One thing is not secret. These people are not rich. Because if we know one thing about this administration it’s that money talks. Trevor Milton, who bilked 661 million dollars from investors, paid 1.8 million for his get out of jail card (and having Pam Bondi’s brother as an attorney didn’t hurt). Then there’s the case of Ross Ulbricht, who was set free from 2 life sentences by Trump within 48 hours of swearing in. Donald even called his mom with the good news. Ulbricht still has millions of dollars in Bitcoin from his business dealings in Silk Road , his drug trafficking site where he paid to have six people murdered in a sting operation. Did I mention that Trump likes cryptocurrency?

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    3. Make America a Kleptocracy, Finally.

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    4. Cope, Soros-bots. Learn to cope.

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    5. The next Republican politician who doesn't rape a pre-teen, will be the first.

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  12. Trump Sends More Migrants to El Salvador Prison
    Bukele’s notorious maximum-security facility has become a cornerstone of the U.S. president’s deportation strategy

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    1. Kilmar Abrego Garcia fled gang threats in his native El Salvador in 2011, when he was 16 years old, and came to the United States. He has lived here since, has no criminal record, works full time as a union sheet-metal apprentice, is married to an American citizen, and is the father of a five-year old child who is a U.S. citizen. He was accused by an informant of being a member of MS-13...He was never convicted of or even charged with any crime.

      In 2019, Abrego Garcia filed an application for asylum and an immigration judge granted him legal protection from being sent to El Salvador based on legitimate fears of persecution and torture.

      The administration admits in its court filing that it “was aware of this grant of withholding of removal” at the time it violated that court order and sent Abrego Garcia off to prison in El Salvador anyway.

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    2. In 2019, an Immigration Judge (under the first Trump administration) determined that the deported man was, in fact, a member of the MS-13 gang. He also apparently had multiple traffic violations for which he failed to appear in court. A real winner.

      It is telling that the entire American media is going to run a propaganda operation today making you think an innocent "father of 3" was apprehended by a gulag. Here are the relevant facts:

      1) The man is an illegal immigrant with no right to be in our country.

      2) An immigration judge determined he was a member of the MS-13 gang.

      3) Because he is not a citizen, he does not get a full jury trial by peers. In other words, whatever "due process" he was entitled to, he received.

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    3. Go with that Democrats. Cry for the illegal gangbanger.

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    4. "Cry for the illegal gangbanger."
      Screw that. I'm setting his cars on fire.
      What's he going to do about it, get a lazy, pencil-pushing, corrupt and wasteful government employee after me?
      I'm quaking in my Birkenstocks. LOL.

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  13. Conclusion based on pattern of new entries imo SS system. Is it true? Is the accusation being widely reported?

    “ Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) head Elon Musk on Sunday claimed millions of noncitizens have received social security numbers from the federal government. They weren’t asleep at the switch,” Musk said of the previous Biden administration “It was a massive large scale program to import as many illegals as possible ultimately to change the entire voting map of the United States and disenfranchise the American people. Musk during an address in Wisconsin displayed a chart showing over 2 million noncitizens had received social security numbers in fiscal year 2024.“

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    1. Fuck you, fascist. He's spreading bullshit to help his judge win an election.

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    2. Noncitizens authorized to work in the US can get an SSN.

      But they can't vote, and would be extremely unlikely to, since that would be a felony and could get them deported (even before Trump).

      So as usual with Musk, this is a nothing burger.

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    3. Nothing burger, that Dickhead in Cal is biting on real hard.

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    4. Musk based his conclusion on the unusual jump in new non-citizen SS numbers. You can see the pattern at the link. Imo that’s suggestive but not conclusive.
      https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/musk-claims-millions-of-noncitizens-received-social-security-numbers-mind-blowing

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    5. David in Cal,
      You've got two problems.

      1) No one is going to risk perjury charges in a court of law, while under oath. If they would, Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, etc would have had their days in court, instead of being tried and convicted on Fox News, AM talk radio, social media, KKK meetings, and the other Right-wing swamps.

      2) The Right have painted themselves into a corner with their anti-government mantra. What jury is going to convict someone for ripping-off the government?
      There's a better chance they'll get a parade down Wall Street.

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    6. Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) head Elon Musk

      Objection! There is no record of that drug addict being confirmed to head a government agency. Trump's lawyers told a court he was not in charge of DOGE (whatever the fuck that is)

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    7. Musk based his conclusion on the unusual jump in new non-citizen SS numbers.

      What is musk's accusation, David? Or does he just want to float this unvetted bullshit out there right before the election to stir up the ignorant racist rubes that are his base?

      Unusual jump, David? Comparing the year 2021 to the year 2024? I wonder what was going on in 2020-2021 that might have had an impact on these numbers of non-citizens getting SS numbers so they can pay taxes while working here. Did you notice they cut the graph off at the year 2021? Take a fucking look at the 4 trump presidency years before 2021, Dickhead.

      Sam Seder did a great job exposing these fucking deliberate liars today on Majority Report.

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    8. Can you think of any reason in particular Musk decided to cut the chart off at the year 2021? Why would he want to hide from his fawning audience the four previous trump years?

      Do maggots get mad when they catch Musk lying to them so blatantly?

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